import tax for Germany?

[Michael Mann]

I finally did it this morning... and even Paypal worked for me.

Does anyone of the European/German reservation holders happen to know how much import tax we probably will have to pay? Thanks in advance.

[Fabian Flesch]

That's a thing I'd like to know also.
By next week I might call someone at the customs to get precise informations on tax and import fees.

[Martin Ludwig]

should be about 7.5 % customs and 19% Import VAT. The 19% you will get back if you have a company registered.

[Gregory Karydis]

I don't have a company registered and I just found out today that the total tax should be around 33% to import to Greece :(
How about I fly in to bring it back myself?
That way I can get an extra lens or something :)
I mean, 6k$ on top of verything else is extravagant (at least for me)

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

We better be sure about the different customs categories. It might be important wether the Red is a "Video Recorder",or a "Camera".
I remember a few years ago that the video-in of some DV cameras was disabled because of this.

[Michael Mann]

Jochen, RED "Video Recorder" or RED "Camera", what difference would this make in terms of customs percentage?

[Rob Lohman]

Keep in mind that you can get into trouble when you bring it in yourself and don't declare it (it's not like you bought some shirts). You have a while before the camera is in your hand, why not start talking to customs now and try to get it sorted before it's time?

Like Josch said, there might be different categories and so on!

[Claus Mueller]

Michael, should be 4.9% plus 19% Import VAT with Taric code 8525809100, "Camera".
http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds/de/tarhome.htm

[Rob Lohman]

8525809100 looks pretty applicable. It's a video camera which only records what it sees & hears. It could fail on the latter part though, RED ONE has audio inputs which in theory allow you to record something else.

This is what I thought when I read 8525809100. For all I know I could be very wrong ;)

Here it is in English:

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds/cgi-bin/tarduty?Taric=8525809100&SimDate=20070125&Action=1&ProdLine=80&Country=US/0400&Type=0&Action=1&YesNo=1&Indent=-1&Flag=1&Test=tarduty&Periodic=0&Download=0&Lang=EN&Description=yes

Otherwise I think it's category 8525809900 which is 12.5%:

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds/cgi-bin/tarduty?Taric=8525809900&SimDate=20070125&Action=1&ProdLine=80&Country=US/0400&Type=0&Action=1&YesNo=1&Indent=-1&Flag=1&Test=tarduty&Periodic=0&Download=0&Lang=EN&Description=yes

However, if the Euro / Dollar exchange rate stays favorable it might not be too bad? I'm assuming final tax is calculate after the import duty (don't know if that's true). If I take the 12.5% import duty and apply 19% tax on top of that I get around 18.000 Euro.

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

Jochen, RED "Video Recorder" or RED "Camera", what difference would this make in terms of customs percentage?

I don´t know.
Regarding "why camera, not recorder": You dont actually expect customs reglementation to make sense, do you?
I once bought an old car in Switzerland. I almost ended up driving it back.

Jochen

[Graeme Nattress]

8525809100 does look very applicable. I wonder if the camera ships without internal recording option that it would under just video camera, rather than camcorder tarif and if that would make any difference?

Graeme

[Mike the beginner]

This is going to become a major issue for many of us when we total up the extras along with the red one body.

Graeme you make a good case for ensuring that the red body is billed seperately without the red drive and red flash added (if thats possible) or EVF since i will be getting both LCD and EVF with the camera. Taxes and import dities are part of life but if red allows us to pay for the red body seperate without any recording device would it not be classified then at the lower import duty rate? If Camcorders that have the DV in, disabled, satisfies customs then a red without the recording devices might work. This is the only item that puts a real damper on things when you are trying to fully equip yourself with a good set up from the start. Does anyone know what the import duty is on lenses?

Could red be classified as a film camera with zero import duties?

Maybe those of us who are importing the red from the same countries could open themselves up to private messages between us to see what the situation is or is likely to be with the camera and extras. Who is open for UK discussion?

Michael

[Graeme Nattress]

It's inputs to allow a camcorder to function as a VCR that attract the higher duty for DV-in enabled camcorders.

What I was wondering is if it's a camera, with no internal recording at all, would that make it a lower duty still???

Graeme

[Gregory Karydis]

How about using the existing Oakley network of European (or worldwide) distributors to deliver Red and the accessories?
That way the customer has peace of mind that all administrative paperwork is taken care of for them.

And I just confirmed with a customs officer that the camera as plain as possible, stripped of any extras or addons is still taxed at a total of 33%

[Anders Holck]

Well, one solution would be to ship the camera enabled for still capture only. That means no import tax. Then release a motion capture enabler patch on the net....Ok, it's on the edge, but whatever just to make Thomson/GV look stupid

[Gregory Karydis]

unfortunately for me Greece, though part of the EC, has an independent taxation system :(
But again, why is it that everyone doesn't like the idea of flying in to collect it?

[Rick Darge]

dont you still have to claim it when you fly back though?

[Graeme Nattress]

Because flying to get it doesn't stop you having to pay the tax. Best to do it properly.

[Claus Mueller]

I had a telephone call with our customs office this morning because they want me to pay tax for my desposit and titanium R. They told me that 8525809100 and 4.9% for "Digital Video Camera" is applicable.

[Martin Ludwig]

it´s not a VCR - no videorecorder. I am sure, but we will discuss it with the companie we work with for all customs clearance.
If it would be a Videorecorder, every mobile phone would be one.

I will let you know, if I have talken to our guys

[Ed van der Kruijssen]

For the Netherlands it's also 4.9%

[Laco Zamba]

Isn't it same for all EU countries? I think that it should be same.

[Gregory Karydis]

If I fly in and pick up the camera in person then I will go through customs with the camera in hand and it will be let through without tax if it's for personal use.

[Simon Dean]

Not sure which country you're from, but bringing it into the EU that way is illegal. That is, if you get caught you not only pay the tax but can be fined too.

It also doesn't matter whether it's for personal or business use, you still pay the tax - because it's coming from the US. There is a personal item limit, but it's only a few hundred quid and once you go over it you pay tax on the whole lot.

It's just not worth the risk of getting caught...IMHO.

[Rob Lohman]

(this is a personal response from a fellow European)

nutman: not in the Netherlands for example. I don't know where you're from, but it it's worth over xx Euro you need to pay tax especially if it's for personal use. A business can reclaim tax. The problem here is import duty, which you will also have to pay as a personal.

If you try to sneak it in and they catch you it might be even worse. You may have to pay an additional fine.

I'm not sure what the problem is though. Living in Europe we know we have to pay import duty & tax (which again as a business you can get back). That's the way of life here. So if I ordered a RED ONE I know this would happen.

However, looking at the Euro / Dollar exchange rate I'd say it isn't so bad. We get a pretty good deal assuming the rate stays good.

The only thing you can do is try to get it imported under the lowest duty level you can.

Do keep in mind that the amount in Dollars does not include tax either. So if someone buys it in the US for personal use they will have to pay tax as well (the amount varies per state).

[Mark B.]

(this is a personal response from a fellow European)

nutman: not in the Netherlands for example. I don't know where you're from, but it it's worth over xx Euro you need to pay tax especially if it's for personal use. A business can reclaim tax. The problem here is import duty, which you will also have to pay as a personal.

If you try to sneak it in and they catch you it might be even worse. You may have to pay an additional fine.

I'm not sure what the problem is though. Living in Europe we know we have to pay import duty & tax (which again as a business you can get back). That's the way of life here. So if I ordered a RED ONE I know this would happen.

However, looking at the Euro / Dollar exchange rate I'd say it isn't so bad. We get a pretty good deal assuming the rate stays good.

The only thing you can do is try to get it imported under the lowest duty level you can.

Do keep in mind that the amount in Dollars does not include tax either. So if someone buys it in the US for personal use they will have to pay tax as well (the amount varies per state).

Isn't it only Californians that have to pay sales tax on it?

[Rob Lohman]

Not to my knowledge, but I could be very wrong on that. I let people from the US answer that question :)

[Chris Kenny]

Isn't it only Californians that have to pay sales tax on it?

Technically, yes. People in many other states just have to pay a use tax. Which incidentally is the same as what the sales tax would have been....

That's the bad news. The good news is you might not have to pay use tax or sales tax anyway. Many states would treat the purchase of equipment like a RED ONE for use in business the same way as the purchase of, for instance, factory machinery, which typically isn't subject to sales/use taxes. And a lot of states are particularly interested in attracting production, so they may offer additional incentives specifically for film/video equipment to be used in production.

Here's some info on incentives in New York: http://www.nyc.gov/html/film/html/incentives/incentives_home.shtml

[Gunleik Groven]

I've mailed the customs already (probably 9 months early... -;) to have this by the book. If you don't, you cant get insurance and thus it's stupid to take something with the value of a decent (well, make that: cheap, decent) car but even easier to steal on the road.

I would just get accustomed to the idea, find out totla cfost and start saving.

Gunleik

[Michael Mann]

I had a telephone call with our customs office this morning because they want me to pay tax for my desposit and titanium R. They told me that 8525809100 and 4.9% for "Digital Video Camera" is applicable.

Claus, how do you plan to insure your RED shipment?

[Claus Mueller]

Michael,
Because it takes sometimes 6-8 weeks from shipment USA via customs office Frankfurt to i.e. Hamburg, I'll pick up my camera and accessories in Red office when everything is ready for shipment. I'll stay some days in California - I've never been there - try everything, then go back to Germany and declare everything personally in Frankfurt.
This way is more expensive but more secure and faster.

[Michael Mann]

Claus, I see, that sounds good.
Are you sure that RED does not have to charge California tax if you pick your goods up in person?

[Claus Mueller]

Michael, I'll check this with someone who is more familiar with the whole procedure.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Michael, I'll check this with someone who is more familiar with the whole procedure.

Or Claus desperately wants to see California. Not bad at all. Let's be honest. But additional info about all that personal import of the RED from California should be somehow requested here at the REDuser Forum from all EU/Germany/Alpine Republic/Austria customers. Never enough good ideas.

[Mark B.]

Keep in mind, states are all different, with totally different tax laws.

I'm from Washington, rather than California, so I can't say what Californian tax laws are like. But, at least in Washington, companies can charge a different sales tax rate if you show proof that your primary residence is in a different state (the modified tax rate will be set to whatever the tax rate is in your home state... Oregonians pay no sales tax). I can't say if this tax situation works for every state though, because I've only seen it done for people that live in our neighboring states of Oregon and Idaho.

I suspect that the out-of-state residence tax break wouldn't apply to people from a foreign country. So if you're a foreigner and you show up in California, you'd still have to pay the state sales tax.

[Stephen Williams]

Michael,
Because it takes sometimes 6-8 weeks from shipment USA via customs office Frankfurt to i.e. Hamburg, I'll pick up my camera and accessories in Red office when everything is ready for shipment. I'll stay some days in California - I've never been there - try everything, then go back to Germany and declare everything personally in Frankfurt.
This way is more expensive but more secure and faster.

Hi,

You will have to pay California sales tax. Much better to use Fedex or UPS. Will be customs cleared in a couple of days.

Stephen

[Álex Montoya]

So the import tax for Spain would be 4.9% or 12.5%? Makes a BIG difference.

[Rob Lohman]

Ask customs in Spain. They are the only one who can tell you.

[Marcus Irvin]

It is correct you are legally required to pay a use tax equivalent to your local sales tax rate when "importing" anything from another state to your own if you are not charged the sales tax when you purchase.
In order to stimulate production, some states such as my native Texas, have granted exemptions for professional photographers and videographers with valid tax id numbers. These exemptions apply only to film or photo equipment that will be used to create taxable products and/or services such as photographs or videos.

I'm don't know how many other states have this exemption for this type of equipment.

[donatello b]

"Are you sure that RED does not have to charge California tax if you pick your goods up in person?"

i believe that if you pick it up in person you have to pay CA tax .. this is based on Oregon friends that have come to visit and when they buy something in CA the store charges CA tax , however if they pay for the item & have the it shipped to their home address in Oregon they are not charged CA sales tax ...

i don't know if CA has a tax excempt or refund for those that live in other countries ???? you might check with the CA state tax franchise board before one fly's over here ...

[Stephen Williams]

"Are you sure that RED does not have to charge California tax if you pick your goods up in person?"



Hi,

You will have to pay sales tax if you collect in person from California.

Stephen

[jamesedwelland]

So the import tax for Spain would be 4.9% or 12.5%? Makes a BIG difference.

Rates are unified within the EEC. As your local customs office or look on the web.

I understand UK import duty on most parts of a RED camera would be 4.9% So would be that rate for you too....

You can also apply for a formal verification of duty rates from your customs office to avoid any nasty suprises...



james w

[Ed van der Kruijssen]

I just ordered a Fujinon lens for my HDCAM in the US.
Customs didn't charge any import duty on the Lens, because it's not considered as a electronic device.
So it's better to order the Red lens seperately from the RED body and other electronics options like the EVF.
On video equipment you have to pay 4.9 % import duty (at least in the Netherlands )

[Manuel Wenger]

4,9 % is true for 8525 8099 10 0 for videcameras which only record sound an image from the camera , if for any reason customs decides for 8525 8099 00 0 which is anything else than above 12,5% (HD SDI in DV IN, VCR functions...)

This is according to "EZT-Online" (http://auskunft.ezt-online.de/ezto/Welcome.do) which i was refered to when I called customs couple of days ago.

Import duties from countries outside EC are the same for all EC countires.

regards
Manuel Wenger

[cinemano]

What, so everytime i travel with my RED i have to pay taxes for it? even if i bought it like months ago? How can one prove its used?

[Cüneyt Kaya]

keep a copy of your receipt with you

[qqqavi]

¨keep a copy of your receipt with you¨ like cinemano said, every time I go to US with my RED I will pay a tax? It´s mine and as a turist I want to shoot everything I see, have a good time in US. Can you prove ´that you´re a turist? Sounds stupid, seems that nobody knows... Should I keep a copy of the receipt for my mp3 player, my canon camera, my watch or even for my hvx200? What happen if I don´t have one of those receipts?

[Mike Prevette]

Whenever I leave the US with equipment I make a list of equipment and serial numbers and get it certified by the TSA. That way they know what I left with and what I returned with so it doesn't look like I'm buying or sellign the stuff over seas. No taxes

If your traveling with a LOT of gear you really need a Carnet.

[Axel Mertes]

Michael,
Because it takes sometimes 6-8 weeks from shipment USA via customs office Frankfurt to i.e. Hamburg, I'll pick up my camera and accessories in Red office when everything is ready for shipment. I'll stay some days in California - I've never been there - try everything, then go back to Germany and declare everything personally in Frankfurt.
This way is more expensive but more secure and faster.


Hey guys, we'e been all through this early january.

The shipments from RED usually don't take 6-8 weeks! In which outback of Hamburg are you living?
Honestly, usually it takes 2-3 days to arrive at Frankfurt am Main/Customs. Then it takes a day or two, could be 5 if you order T-Shirts (believe me, we had 4 or 5 shipments from RED so far...). Then its done and brought to you by Fedex OVERNIGHT. So ONE week or slightly more than one week is realistic. You get a bill for tax & duties from Fedex and pay that to Fedex. It may be helpful to become a Fedex customer before, I am not sure if it makes a difference. We are Fedex customers, thought can't say how it is if not. In fact, Fedex is ordered by RED, not by us, so I believe it would make no difference.

The shipment alone costs about 600 Euros for the whole camera, thats insured standart priority, like 2 days or so, international shipment. I believe its the ONLY shipment method RED currently offers.

However, Fedex is a good shipping company. RED does package the whole stuff really well for transports, and I mean REALLY WELL. And don't try them to use USPS or DHL instead, if you would like to do yourself a favor...

I need to laugh really loud when I hear poeple want to travel there to pick it up, cause it would be more safe and faster?

You have apparently no idea of the size of the packages, nore of the weight. We have TWO really large Pelicases now to keep ONE RED ONE system (just the camera, LCD, EVF, 1 lense, batteries, drives, loaders and accessoires, plus one notebook, NO tripod or the like). And the weight is sooo much you don't want anything else to carry when you are alone. Its hard to move that by train, its hard even by car :).

And have in mind: You are in NO WAY able to put these things inside the cabin of the plane. You need to push them into the baggage of the airplane. And I trust the RED standart secured Fedex transportation way more than ANY flight companies bagagge claim thing... Have you heard of the new London gate, which lost several thousand baggages a day recently? Good luck, mate!

I understand the idea of travelling there and picking it up, seeing RED company and california. But this is not an Hi8 or MiniDV camcorder you take with yourself in an airplane... Not really. The weight of the body permits that. And those securities before the boarding area at last.

I can give you ony one hint:

Travel to RED when you get your invitation. You'll get one, more I am not allowed to say... Thats a better time and investment for a flight travel there.

And the 4.9% seems right, I think we had the same. We paid about 600 Euros in total for custom duties, plus the 19% VAT (which we get refunded as a company).

RED ONE body is a still frame photo camera :) with a really high shooting rate.

Axel