Lens Storage Solutions

[Michael Panfeld]

Hi: I have amassed quite a collection of cinema lenses and still lenses (about 55 cinema and 20 still) that I would like to maintain in optimum conditions. Looking for suggestions on storage with an aim to prevent fungus growth. Posts on the net are all over the place (as is, IMHO the expertise of the posters). Still air/fan to circulate, dessicant/dehumidifier/light bulb, high temp/low temp (i've seen posts for both), how best to lower humidity and what is a good/bad relative hunidity to shoot for? constant temp/varying temp, dark/light/UV light, lens caps on/off, upright/on the side, in a pelican style case/loose on a shelf, and the list goes on.

Finally, how often should a lens be cleaned/serviced?

Particularly hoping to hear from Mr. Gross and Mr. Duclos, and any other rental house or lens techs out there. Much thanks.

[Tim Whitcomb]

great question... did you ask Michael Duclos of ducloslenses (dot) com?

[Steve Gal]

Storing in a cool dry place is best. Keeping your lenses in an airtight case is also helpful as well as using silica gel packs if you are in an above average humidity area. This is for long term storage. Having a properly foamed lens case works fine for active use and again using moisture control if your climate calls for it.

[XiaoSu Han]

Nice lens collection :D

[Matthew Duclos]

great question... did you ask Michael Duclos of ducloslenses (dot) com?

Who?

[Jarred Land]

ha ha ha so awesome. :)

[Matthew Duclos]

Hi: I have amassed quite a collection of cinema lenses and still lenses (about 55 cinema and 20 still) that I would like to maintain in optimum conditions. Looking for suggestions on storage with an aim to prevent fungus growth. Posts on the net are all over the place (as is, IMHO the expertise of the posters). Still air/fan to circulate, dessicant/dehumidifier/light bulb, high temp/low temp (i've seen posts for both), how best to lower humidity and what is a good/bad relative hunidity to shoot for? constant temp/varying temp, dark/light/UV light, lens caps on/off, upright/on the side, in a pelican style case/loose on a shelf, and the list goes on.

Finally, how often should a lens be cleaned/serviced?

Particularly hoping to hear from Mr. Gross and Mr. Duclos, and any other rental house or lens techs out there. Much thanks.


What's worked best for us for storage is a cool dark cabinet. Desiccant always helps.
I see you are in Washington... Fairly humid.. :(
Here in California, it's fairly easy to store a lens without much concern.
I don't see how caps on or off would make a difference unless your lenses went swimming and they needed to dry out.
It's always best to leave the lens in the position that it sits while in use, but that really doesn't make much difference for storage.
If you are storing them in a foamed case, make darn sure that the foam is completely dry. Again, silica gel/desiccant never hurts.
This should all help prevent fungus.
If you DO find fungus, treat it as soon as possible as it can and will spread like wildfire.
Fungus isn't bad if it's caught early. But if you wait, it will begin to attack the coatings and eventually the glass.
Service frequency is a matter of opinion.
I always say it depends on how the lens is used.
If your lens is out shooting Survivor: Africa and is being beaten to a pulp, then it's probably best to have it serviced as often as possible.
If your lenses are sitting in a nice air conditioned studio, you probably don't need to service them for several years.
Of course this also depends on the make/model of the lens. The variables go on and on... But you get the idea. (i hope)

[Matthew Duclos]

constant temp/varying temp

Call me crazy...
Taking a lens from 30° to 70° creates condensation...
Condensation creates moisture...
Moisture creates fungus...
Fungus creates unhappy cinematographer...
Unhappy cinematographers create crappy movies...
Crappy movies make Matthew sad...

Keep Matthew happy.

[Rich Schaefer]

Call me crazy...
Taking a lens from 30° to 70° creates condensation...
Condensation creates moisture...
Moisture creates fungus...
Fungus creates unhappy cinematographer...
Unhappy cinematographers create crappy movies...
Crappy movies make Matthew sad...

Keep Matthew happy.

Ha Ha Ha, awesome!

[Mitch Gross]

Store lenses standing up. It likely makes little difference, but in theory (deep, deep theory, 'cause I can't imagine anything really ever happening) storing a lens on its side could take the rings slightly out of round after a century or two. In our NY office we store them on metal shelving but our Burbank office is in earthquake country, so we have a steel cabinet with latching doors and the shelves are lined with 4" deep foam with circular cutouts that the lenses rest within. It's like a HUGE lens case.

Leave the caps on as they will protect the glass from dust and grease.

There's plenty of back & forth about where to set the rings on a lens for storage and it can vary depending on the design. Sitting on a shelf, I would say to set the iris open, the focus at infinity and a zoom either wide or somewhere in the middle.

Silica gel or some other dessicant is always a good idea. I've seen many types and there's a nice little metal box one that I believe Pelican makes to slip in their cases.

I understand that Zeiss lenses like a hearty lager and Angenieux enjoy a sweet cuddle before bedtime.

[David Rasberry]

Leave the caps on as they will protect the glass from dust and grease.

I bought one used lens off Ebay that had been stored long term without covers. Chemical erosion from the dust had damaged the coatings on the front and rear elements, though the lens was spotless internally.

[Michael Panfeld]

Mitch and Matthew, much thanks for taking the time to explain. Have a Happy Thanksgiving

[Martin Weiss]

Until today I didn't know that "Forces of Nature" had fungus in their lenses.:smilewinkgrin:

[Harry Clark]

Michael,
Here's my way. Not to say it's the "right way".
I keep them in A&J cases, zooms on the side, primes front element up. Heavy/ long primes like Nikon 200, 300, and Zeiss 300 on the side like zooms.
One aluminum tin of silica gel per case. Be careful, as they can break open and spill silica gel beads everywhere. I rubber band mine.
Watch case foam for signs of deterioration. The softer type of ester will eventually (5-10 years) break down and small pebbles of it will ruin your lenses. Easy to have A&J, Innerspace, etc. send you a new foam cutout.
For "days off" storage, lenses go in a firesafe with a larger "canister type" silica gel desiccant. All lenses front element down on plastic (Corian?) shelving. Luckily there are not a lot of days off so they don't spend a great deal of time in that configuration.
I defer to the experts here whether I'm doing it "right".
Cheers,
Harry

[Eric Lange]

I thought I would chime in on this one.

I used to work as a conservator at the National Air and Space Museum (in DC) and my first degree was in archaeological conservation. Did research fellowship on the deterioration of space suits.

All of the points raised earlier/above, in my opinion are correct. You should definitely find a stable museum grade foam, for example Plastazote, which is a cross linked polyethylene foam. Other types of foam break down, and give off acids. In a small confined case this then becomes an autocatalytic process. Metals do not like acids, and having lenses which have different metals in contact with each other causes a galvanic affect (of dissimilar) metals which accelerates the sacrificial corrosion of the most reactive metal (a bit like a battery). This is all greatly accelerated by an acidic environment, but also be aware that an alkaline environment is super bad for Aluminum as well.

The second point I would like to make is that people vastly under estimate the amount of silica gel that is required to actually climate control a case or space. People put in little sachets, which is about as good as good luck charm. For a small size suit case, silica gel of the order of several kilograms is required. It is possible to condition the silica gel to buffer to a specific relative humidity. Remember to check your silica gel periodically and to put it in the oven or microwave, to desiccate the gel. Because of dissimilar metals I would try to get the RH as low as possible. A small window in a case with an analog humidistat/RH meter is very useful to determine that your case and desiccant are working. The cases should be aired out now and again to check for off gassing from any synthetic compounds that may result in various residues or acids.

Storing lenses upright. I think the logic behind this is that if the lens is stored on its side this causes the various helicoids to be pinched unevenly along its threads where they make contact with other elements. With cyclical changes in temperature and uneven thermal expansion between elements, this can cause tiny metal crystals at the pinch points, to be very slowly over time to be ground away (this is certainly true of early scientific instruments in museum collections). Then when you go to use the lens, one finds a concentration of tiny metal particles mixed with lubricant that travel around the helicoids thus causing increased friction, microscopic debris that works as nucleation sites for new corrosion sites and pitting etc. I think the logic for storing a lens up right is that the helicoids are evenly loaded, so there is no pinching or grinding out of tiny crystals.

I don’t think low storage temperature is critical in your case unless there are a lot of synthetic components, lower storage temperatures are much harder to desiccate due to dew point considerations and higher RH’s at lower temps (especially in humid environments). However every ten degrees of lowered storage temperature reduces any chemical deterioration processes by half. I think in your case it’s more important to have a constant storage temperature. If RH is kept low, then the use of fungicides are not necessary.

Hope that helps, maybe your lenses will be in a museum collection one day!

Cheers,

Eric

[Michael Panfeld]

Eric & Harry: much thanks. Eric, I have a strong scientific background, so that all makes sense to me. The varying temperature question came about because these are stored in a office building environment, which can have temp swings when the a/c or heat are shut off at night/weekends. But I brought a decent hygrometer/thermometer over this weekend and the RH is at 33% now and varied 32-45% over the l;ast few days. The temp stayed within 70-77 degrees. I know that is not ideal museum conditions, but I hope its good enough.

Interestingly, I read somewhere on the web that RH below 30% starts to do bad things to the len's lubricants. So, there is such a thing as too dry. Anybody have thoughts on that? thanks

[Eric Lange]

Yep, its possible that for very low viscosity lubricants (such as those used on surveying instruments) that in low RH they will volatolize. However for that to happen you need high temperature and low RH (of the order of 15%). I current live in New Mexico, where 15-20% RH is the norm, none of my primes/lenses show signs of getting sticky, more modern based silicone lubricants should be less of a problem, but with the older lubricants, they are going to cross link and gum up and give off acids anyway regardless of RH, it’s more a factor of temperature. While I was working in DC with 90% RH and 90 degree temperature for substantial part of the year was a real bitch to climate control and protect museum artifacts (in off site storage). So anything you can do will be a vast improvement over ambient conditions.

[KETCH ROSSi]

As posted here: Transporting Lenses Do and Don't (http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=33904) sharing opinions on how to store and or transport lenses, I like to add that for long term storage, I have modified a Wine seller fridge, actually is not a fridge is a conditioner for red wine, so that it can be kept at optimal humidity levels as well as temperature desired.

This units are already dust sealed, and you can set the humidifier top the opposite which in turn acts as a drier, taking any humidity out, and you can then set the temperature level, as you please, and actually I would set the temperature always as close as the outside temperature avoiding any shock to the lens internal elements when bringing the lens from one temperature to an other of extreme differences as it often happens when traveling by air, this will avoid internal fogging.

Great thing is.. you can store your favorite Chianti and your lenses in the same storage unit :-)

BTW: This type of storage solution is an absolute must for any one leaving near the Beach, as the salted moist kills any electronic.