Which brands of CF card are best?

[Dominic Jones]

Hi all,

I've been trying to decide for a while which flash module to buy with our Red, and whilst I was leaning toward 1.8" SATA, I think I'm going to plump for the CF module instead due to the advice from Jim et al...

The thing is, I've never used CF cards before, and so I've no idea if different makes are better or worse, or by how much - so some advice would be highly appreciated...

Over here in the UK, it seems that the two big players are Lexar and Sandisk - are they pretty much equally good, or should I opt for one over the other? Are there other good makes to consider? I| also noticed that PQI have released the first (or so it seems from the article I read) 16GB 300x CF card - are they any good or should I be waiting for a Sandisk/Lexar 16GB 300x card?

Thanks in advance for your help guys, this is new territory for me!

[Charles Perkins]

is it true that RED will be producing their own?

[Dominic Jones]

So I hear - good point, I'm sure they'll be top quality. Any ideas on when they'll be released/available?

[chuck colburn]

I think they are testing cards to see which ones meet their standards.

[Steve Gibby]

"Currently, 8GB cards that we will certify are available. We believe that in October we will certify 16GB cards. It seems possible that in Q2 of 2008 32GB cards might become available.

We love Compact Flash. The real alternative is RED Drive with 2.5" flash drives. But prices won't be competitive until after the 1st of the year."

Jim Jannard
8/25/07
RED User
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3908

[Shawn Nelson]

Those other cards that Jarred said would work were 8GB 300x and were under $200, I think they were $179. Red has said their cards will be cheaper (since they'll be purchasing a bulk order and certifying it). So I hope they get them at least under $150. A cool $100 apiece would be dang spiffy.

[Jannard]

Those other cards that Jarred said would work were 8GB 300x and were under $200, I think they were $179. Red has said their cards will be cheaper (since they'll be purchasing a bulk order and certifying it). So I hope they get them at least under $150. A cool $100 apiece would be dang spiffy.

Too optimistic... since we have changed how we are recording REDCODE RAW (variable file size) it is not so easy to certify a CF card. A 266x Transcend will work under some conditions, then readily drop frames on a complex scene. Not all 300x work. I think at today's prices, $199 seems about right for a certified RED 8GB CF card. Prices should drop over time. But there is currently a CF card shortage. The SanDisk Ducati looks like it will work, but prices on that card is over $300 for 8GB. Remember that not all CF cards really perform as spec'd. We are discovering the secrets of the flash industry.

We will have a list ready for Friday.

Jim

[G.A. Kokes]

Hi,

For our clients (and our reputation's) sake we will only be using cards that are provided by RED. We simply cannot take chances while on set that a card will fail. Some do!

We have a Nikon D2Xs and have never had a problem with the card. However I have heard of cards failing after months of reliable service. I am not sure however, what really made them fail. A search on the internet will yield you some of those stories.

Cheers,
G

[Alexander Nikishin]

Sandisk Ducati, sexy.

[Dominic Jones]

Top stuff, thanks Jim - it's good to have you guys getting my back on this one, as (as I mentioned) flash is definitely not my area of expertise! I'll definitely be getting the Red-certified cards - I just want the no hassle, plug it in and it works solution, thank you very much!

Is there any accepted wisdom on how many hours/write cycles/whatever a flash card should be replaced after? Last thing I (or anyone, I'm sure) wants happening is a failure on set, so anything that can be done to reduce the chance of that is good in my books...

[Jannard]

We have never experienced a card failing... just not being fast enough to keep up with the data stream. Dropped frames is a speed issue, not a flash reliability issue.

Jim

[Dominic Jones]

We have never experienced a card failing...
Damn man, you managed to answer my question before I even asked it - now that's what I call customer service!!!

[Jannard]

We love to sell you stuff but will also tell you when you can buy something from the open market. The problem today is that we are pushing the limits of record speed. I am sure this will go away as all CF cards get faster. Right now, there are just not that many that can match our requirements.

Jim

[Jim Arthurs]

Too optimistic... since we have changed how we are recording REDCODE RAW (variable file size) it is not so easy to certify a CF card.
Jim

I bet my existing 8X CF card is just fine if I forget and leave the lens cap on, as I usually do...

Or, put another way...how many hours of black can I record on an 8gig card? :)

[Dominic Jones]

I'm more than happy to buy stuff off you!

Once the speed issue is less of a problem I might start looking at buying 3rd party cards, simply because it'll be easier shipping wise what with being in the UK, but I imagine I'll be looking at a few 16GB cards along with Red 1083, and I'm figuring they'll keep us going for a good while - by the way, how many cards do you recommend (within reason!)? I'm guessing they'll back up faster than they can be written, so assuming you've got a backup system handy on set all the time (which if I'm using CF I will have) 3 or 4 should do the trick, no?

[Jim Exton]

Did I miss it or did you announce how many slots are in the CF reader?

I know at one time there was a suggestion that there might be more than one slot.

[Jannard]

Did I miss it or did you announce how many slots are in the CF reader?

I know at one time there was a suggestion that there might be more than one slot.

There is one CF slot.

Jim

[ericyoung]

...Not all 300x work. I think at today's prices, $199 seems about right for a certified RED 8GB CF card. Prices should drop over time. But there is currently a CF card shortage. The SanDisk Ducati looks like it will work, but prices on that card is over $300 for 8GB. Remember that not all CF cards really perform as spec'd. We are discovering the secrets of the flash industry...
Jim

Hmm, wonder if Lexar 300x UDMA CF cards would work, $219.99 for 8GB from Lexar's own online store - rhetorical question, no need to answer!! :biggrin:

Non-rhetorical question - will Red's CF module be UDMA capable?
http://store.lexar.com/?productid=CF8GB-300-380

Apparently the new Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III will be UDMA CF capable, so it's probably not a proprietary technology, unlike Lexar's Write Acceleration.

[Dominic Jones]

Hmm, wonder if Lexar 300x UDMA CF cards would work, $219.99 for 8GB from Lexar's own online store - rhetorical question, no need to answer!! :biggrin:
For the CF-challenged around here, is that no need to answer because they obviously will work, or because they obviously won't?!

I've seen those Lexar's for £130 inc VAT online in the UK, btw. The Sandisk Extreme IV 8GB cards are £100 here, and share pretty much the same spec (although from previous posts I understand that may not mean anything!)...

[ericyoung]

For the CF-challenged around here, is that no need to answer because they obviously will work, or because they obviously won't?!

I've seen those Lexar's for £130 inc VAT online in the UK, btw. The Sandisk Extreme IV 8GB cards are £100 here, and share pretty much the same spec (although from previous posts I understand that may not mean anything!)...

Rhetorical in that I was just thinking aloud!

Just saw on another website that Sandisk Ducati and Extreme IV use UDMA, so would expect that the Red CF module takes advantage of it. Yeay!

[Sanjin Jukic]

SanDisk Extreme® Ducati Edition CompactFlash

http://www.adorama.com/images/large/IDSEDCF8G.JPG
SanDisk Extreme® Ducati Edition CompactFlash 8 GB>>
Price: $314.99
Fast 45MB/sec sequential read/write speeds
More>>LINK (http://www.sandisk.com/Products/ProductInfo.aspx?ID=2393)

http://www.adorama.com/images/large/IDSEDCF4G.JPG
SanDisk Extreme® Ducati Edition CompactFlash 4 GB>>
Price: $164.99
Also fast 45MB/sec sequential read/write speeds
More>>LINK (http://www.sandisk.com/Products/ProductInfo.aspx?ID=2411)

[Ruairi Robinson]

We love to sell you stuff but will also tell you when you can buy something from the open market. The problem today is that we are pushing the limits of record speed. I am sure this will go away as all CF cards get faster. Right now, there are just not that many that can match our requirements.

Jim

Hey Jim

as CF speed increases - will we be able to get higher than 30fps off CF at 4k?

is the bottleneck processing or data throughput on the card? and whats the theoretical maximum here?

(apologies of this has been asked many times before)

Cheers,
R.

[Dominic Jones]

I can find the 8GB Ducati's for £142.99 over here in the UK, so that's not much more than the Lexar 300x's... If Red are able to sell me a certified 8GB card for around $200 when I buy my camera though (or a similarly priced 16GB version) then Sandisk are out shit of luck!...

[Sanjin Jukic]

Lexar Professional UDMA 300x CompactFlash

http://www.lexar.com/image/8gb_udma_lrg.jpg
" Available in a range of capacities up to a massive 8GB, these cards deliver industry-leading read/write speeds with a minimum sustained write speed capability of a blazing 300x (45MB/sec) in all."
More>>LINK (http://www.lexar.com/digfilm/cf_udma.html)
Price: $219.99
More>>ONLINE SHOP LINK (http://store.lexar.com/index.cfm?productid=CF8GB-300-380&bhcp=1)

[Rob Lohman]

is the bottleneck processing or data throughput on the card? and whats the theoretical maximum here?

There are other limits besides drive speed, like compression capacity & system bandwidth, not to mention sensor framerates.

[jbeale]

> ...secrets of the flash industry....

In the DSLR world, Rob Galbraith's page has hosted the "Compact Flash Database" for some years. They have done a lot of testing with various cameras to get real write & read speeds as used with each specific DSLR camera. As I recall they have found that the flash companies sometimes use different controller chips in identically branded & packaged parts, that run at different speeds. A numeric code number stamped along one edge is sometimes the only clue.
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007

[Zach Nelson]

Sandisk has 16M CF media available.. not sure they're I/O is fast enough though. Do you think we'll have 500M CF by next summer? :)