RED Rocket and Panny plasma HD-SDI module

[Petri Teittinen]

Hi all,

I'm considering an HD-SDI module for a 50-inch Panasonic plasma to use with RED Rocket. The module (TY-FB10HD) supports the following resolutions:

525/59.94i, 625/50i, 750/60p; 59.94p, 750/50p, 1125/30p, 1125/24p, 1125/25p, 1125/60i; 59.94i, 1125/50i, 1125/24sF; 23.98sF, SMPTE292M, SMPTE259M-C

I'd like to make sure that RR outputs a resolution I can display on the Panny through this HD-SDI module.

Thank you.

[Petri Teittinen]

I found out there's another module that fits in my Panny, the TY-FB11DHD. It has Dual HD-SDI. RED Rocket specs mention Dual HD-SDI; does that mean I need a Dual HD-SDI module for the Panny?

[Deanan]

I found out there's another module that fits in my Panny, the TY-FB11DHD. It has Dual HD-SDI. RED Rocket™ specs mention Dual HD-SDI; does that mean I need a Dual HD-SDI module for the Panny?

Not necessarily. Rocket also supports single link output.

[Torrey Loomis]

Petri,

The FB11DHD will take a 2K dual-rate signal and display on your plasma as 1080. The FB10HD only takes single input.

Very nice for being able to work in 2K native all the way. No conversion hiccups.

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
(916) 760-0032 • FAX (916) 404-5258
torrey@silverado.cc
Web http://www.Silverado.cc
Blog http://silveradosys.blogspot.com
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Build your own RED Rocket system: http://bit.ly/7F4QA1

[Petri Teittinen]

Deanan & Torrey, thank you very much. Could either of you explain to me the difference between single and dual HD-SDI in practice? What am I missing out on if I go for the cheaper single link module?

[Torrey Loomis]

Deanan & Torrey, thank you very much. Could either of you explain to me the difference between single and dual HD-SDI in practice? What am I missing out on if I go for the cheaper single link module?

Petri,

Single is fine if you don't need to output 2K from your editing system.

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
(916) 760-0032 • FAX (916) 404-5258
torrey@silverado.cc
Web http://www.Silverado.cc
Blog http://silveradosys.blogspot.com
Twitter http://www.twitter.com/silveradosys

Build your own RED Rocket system: http://bit.ly/7F4QA1

[Petri Teittinen]

Torrey, if by 2K you mean 2048x1080 then no, I probably don't need to output that. I'm going for 1080p24/30. Is that doable with RED Rocket and FB10HD module? I don't need audio, so would even TY-FB9HD suffice?

[Mark L. Pederson]

Petri -

You want the FB11DHD like Torrey said. We have a two of them in 58" Panasonic Series 11s and have used them with RED Rocket™ cards. You use dual HD-SDI inputs when you want to work in 444 RGB. And YES - you can do 1920x1080 422 over a single link on the same card.

[Petri Teittinen]

Thank you, Mark. 444 RGB, you say? I wonder if my Panny can display that; it's not a professional monitor but a TH-50VX100 (http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=320735&catGroupId=126503&surfModel=TH-50VX100U), sort of a prosumer model I guess.

[Sidney L. Plaut]

As Mark said :

single link: 4:2:2, dual link 4:4:4 = single link, you only have half color resolution.

[Petri Teittinen]

OK, now I'm really confused. Found this table (ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/business/proplasma/specifications/th-50vx100u_specifications.pdf) which claims 1125(1080)/24p/24sF/25p/30p support for FB9HD and FB10HD.

Is it that RED Rocket can't output any of those... or why do I need 2048(1080)/24p/24sF which is only supported by FB11DHD?

Please bear with me; my background is home theater equipment and my knowledge ends with 1080p24 :)

[Petri Teittinen]

As Mark said: single link: 4:2:2, dual link 4:4:4 = single link, you only have half color resolution.
Right, OK. Thank you, Sidney. But if my monitor does not support 4:4:4, I have no need for dual link, correct?

[RRafael]

Panasonic Serie 11 is 10 bit color?

[Chris Kenny]

Panasonic Serie 11 is 10 bit color?

Over HD-SDI, yes. Not over HDMI until they upgrade the current HDMI module. Though RedRocket also doesn't to 10-bit over HDMI yet, as far as I know. (But once Panasonic upgrades the HDMI module, one should be able to get 4:4:4 from HD-SDI using something like the AJA Hi5-3G converter, which is a lot cheaper than Panasonic's dual-link HD-SDI module.)

[Sidney L. Plaut]

If your monitor does not support 4:4:4 there is no need for dual link in regards to color resolution.

[Dave Blackham]

Over HD-SDI, yes. Not over HDMI until they upgrade the current HDMI module. Though RedRocket also doesn't to 10-bit over HDMI yet, as far as I know. (But once Panasonic upgrades the HDMI module, one should be able to get 4:4:4 from HD-SDI using something like the AJA Hi5-3G converter, which is a lot cheaper than Panasonic's dual-link HD-SDI module.)

The Panasonic card is variant of V 1.2A but Panasonic engineering have confirmed to me that it does support 10bit processing via the HDMI card. It needs testing to verify the info is correct.

[Olivier Madar]

Hi,

I have a Panasonic serie 11 monitor and I think I will jump on the RedRocket when I will do the MX upgrade.
My question is : can I connect one of the 2 DVI output of the RedRocket to the DVI in of the panasonic (I think 4:2:2 is enough for me) ? Or shall I have the breackbox to output HD SDI from the Rocket and buy the panasonic SDI input card ?

[Johnny Friday]

Over HD-SDI, yes. Not over HDMI until they upgrade the current HDMI module. Though RedRocket also doesn't to 10-bit over HDMI yet, as far as I know. (But once Panasonic upgrades the HDMI module, one should be able to get 4:4:4 from HD-SDI using something like the AJA Hi5-3G converter, which is a lot cheaper than Panasonic's dual-link HD-SDI module.)

So....what I think i see you saying is this:
From RED ROCKET---output via HD-SDI out (dual link for 4:4:4 and single for 4:2:2)
Then this goes to Breakout box HD-SDI in (dual or single)
From the Breakout box you go HDMI (which carries 10 bit signal) to the monitors HDMI input.....
RESULT:
10bit monitoring 4:2:2 if you used single HD-SDI connection
10bit monitoring 4:4:4 if you used dual HD-SDI connection

**now, the only unknown variable is whether or not your MONITORS HDMI input is 10bit compatible.

....most documentation i read on the TV monitors does not go that deep into specifications and reveal weather or not it is 8 bit or 10 bit compatible via HDMI---i think from what i read, most others are saying the same with panny 11 and 12 series and even now, seems it is still unknown weather 11 or 12 series is 8 or 10bit over HDMI. Anyone have positive confirmation?

[David Collard]

Just a thought...if you can get away with a consumer monitor like a Panasonic plasma G10/15 in THX mode (Rec-709) through RED Rocket™ via HD-SDI to HDMI conversion (see Aja converter), this should still work for the majority of users with a properly calibrated monitor and scopes. Let's face it, if your audience is broadcast or the home consumer market, coloring and working at this level will work within the parameters of the average Joe.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hi,

I have a Panasonic serie 11 monitor and I think I will jump on the RedRocket when I will do the MX upgrade.
My question is : can I connect one of the 2 DVI output of the RedRocket to the DVI in of the panasonic (I think 4:2:2 is enough for me) ? Or shall I have the breackbox to output HD SDI from the Rocket and buy the panasonic SDI input card ?

To make full use of the 11-series, you will want 10bit color input. And currently, you get that via the SDI as the HDMI option is crippled to 8bit. You don't need the breakout box, you can connect directly to the SDI outputs on the Rocket card.

When Panasonic releases their updated HDMI module, it may be compatible with the 11-series, but we don't know for sure. It will support HDMI 1.4 and 10bit deep color. Then you could connect via HDMI for 10bit. To get 10bit out of the Rocket via HDMI, you need the Rocket BOB. Or use a converter like the AJA HI5 3G.

I have been using a Panasonic 46" G10 with the Rocket up until about 10 days ago. It was only connected via a DVI to HDMI cable, so 8bit, but it worked great. Absolutely wonderful plasma monitor. My only complaint about it is the USA model runs @ 48Hz for 24fps source footage and has an issue with flicker. Euro models run at 96Hz and are a lot smoother. If you want 96Hz for 24fps in the USA, you have to buy the V series or one of the Pro plasmas. The Euro model V and G series also include gamma curve adjustment that the USA models do not have -- WTF, Panasonic? But they are still easy to calibrate to REC-709 starting with the THX mode with the warm setting and dial in from there with a good colorimeter like the EyeOne or Spider3. Or start right from a custom preset and each input can have its own calibration. Best to use software like CalMan if the budget allows. Or have someone come in and calibrate for you.

Anyway, I plan to buy one of the new V[T]25 50" panels as soon as they are available. I may go for a Pro Series panel, depending on how much the new 50" 1080p models are when released. They probably will only be about $250 more than the consumer model, which is pretty typical, but they nail you on the purchase of your input options. The HD-SDI module costs more than the display itself. And HD-SDI input is the only reason I would buy the pro model over the consumer one.

[Mark L. Pederson]

Guys - one thing you should know about the Dual Link Panasonic HD-SDI input card for the Series 11 - it looks for SMPTE mata-data in the stream to know if it's 444 - if its sees this data - it switches the card to 444.

MANY devices DO NOT embed this meta-data in the stream. So ... SOME decks don't work in 444 with the Panasonic Dual Link HD-SDI card ... some I/O cards don'r work either - such as the Nvidia Quadra HD-SDI. Last time I checked - RED Rocket doesn't work in 444 through the panasonic card.

I've been meaning to talk to my friends in engineering at AJA to see if one of there products takes a Dual Link pass-through and embeds the SMPTE meta-data to trigger the card into 444 - if I find anything out I'll post in this thread. If anyone already knows a "work-around"/solution/hack - lemme know.

Yeah ... it would have been nice if they just put a f*#K'n SWITCH on the damn thing.

[David Collard]

Thanks Jeff and Mark.
Guess the dual link HD-SDI/4:4:4 issue is one more question to add to the list for NAB 2010.

Interesting to note, most of Blackmagic products profess a 4:4:4 thing, but when you go to use their latest Ultrascope card - it requires turning off 4:4:4 in the preferences.
I presume it's because a single link HD-SDI only carries 4:2:2.

[Kaku Ito]

David,

There's a 3G connection to HD-SDI which is not so widely accepted.

In case of UltraScope, the standards that UltraScope work under is only 4:2:2. Wish it was compatible to 4:4:4.

[Tai Wah Lim]

Kaku Ito,

"Yeah ... it would have been nice if they just put a f*#K'n SWITCH on the damn thing"

Do you use the Pana Dual linked card for your 12series panel?

Will you pass Mark's message to your Pana contact in Japan - after taking out his F word of course.

Lim

[Kaku Ito]

Tai Wah,

okay :)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Mark,

Thanks for the info about 444 and the meta data. I was not aware of this. Apparently Panasonic can't manufacture any input board for the Pro plasmas without introducing a huge flaw or leaving out a major feature...