Newsworthy shot but no REDCINE...

[JohnF]

Okay, you're on a shoot with RED and get that cracking shot of X that all the news networks will want. You pick up the phone and the news desk wants the shot ASAP just get over there right now; only you suddenly remember that your copy of REDCINE is back at base and you've only got a load of 4k REDCODE RAW files to show.

What do you do? How would you give the news networks the shot to license? How would they view it.

Would files be able to play using Quicktime and just how would the networks manage a 4k picture?

The above has happened to me but in the days of SD and tape (heading back from a music video shoot a nearby paint factory exploded!), so it was just a case of hand over the tape... What now with these exciting 4k data files?

JohnF

[laguun]

deliver hdcam (sr). the networks broadcast 1080p in the best case.

[JohnF]

A lot of news networks are still on SD and DVCAM/BetaSX/SP/Digi for that.

The problem I posing is that your in the field and you have a time sensitive shot that could make you a great deal of money but there's not enough time to get back to base a do a REDCINE conversion or a tape transfer...

How would you get your footage (from CF card or REDDRIVE in REDCODE raw) to play on the news networks systems.

ie maybe RED can play out using HDSDI ports or the data can be read using quicktime.

JohnF

[Ken Corben]

great question - there might be a solution we are unaware of until all features are enabled in RED and tested. That said, I would certainly have my mac book pro with FCP6 on location at all times for managing the CF and HDD data, no?

If you've got the "Zapruder shot" import it with apple prores 422 and use the QT conversion menu to select a broadcast safe output file. Then put it on a USB or fire wire drive and deliver to the station, voila.

[planet e]

prores is not currently functional as a capture codec, without a card. is there a card which can be used with a macbook pro to capture pro res? (i'm not sure about this but i am thinking not....i think you need a tower to capture pro res...) anyone?

interesting question....

[Ken Corben]

prores is not currently functional as a capture codec, without a card. is there a card which can be used with a macbook pro to capture pro res? (i'm not sure about this but i am thinking not....i think you need a tower to capture pro res...) anyone? interesting question....

Planet e, do you have FCP 6 running on an intel based mac and now this statement to be a fact? Please edify us all. Unless something radical has changed, my understanding is that redcode 4K RAW files from the drive are plug and play as both demonstrated and answered by the Apple engineers at NAB '07. Real time no less with the prores codec. I have not updated to intel based machines or FCP 6 yet so let me know if you are and if the prores codec is not operational CUZ I saw it working at NAB.

See video:

http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/action/?movie=red

Did you mean that REDCODE in FCP 6 is not yet enabled and that one will need a I/O card to output the HD and above resolutions or record to HDCAM SR decks?

[laguun]

i am not sure if that will be in the final product, but:

afaik red will playback its redcode through the hd-sdi.
attach vcr. playout.

[Michael Schrengohst]

Why do that when you can import 4K footage and
encode to any file format the station would need?

[Sam Druckerman]

Not an answer.

But something I've tried to keep in mind from the very beginning of the Red revolution is...

A lot of this is unexplored territory and to be an early adapter really requires a sense of adventure!

I've noticed some people on the board don't get that.

I really believe the image quality of the Red makes all the unanswered questions "worth the stress".

IMO When the media sees the the quality of the Red, they'll be happy to accommodate any Red adaption issues.

[Michael Schrengohst]

IMO When the media sees the the quality of the Red, they'll be happy to accommodate any Red adaption issues.

I wish that were the case! All the news people I have worked
with could give a rats ass what the video looks like.
The high def shot here locally is done with XDCAM HD and
looks like - well - video!
Now on the other hand the news promo depts may be interested in RED.

[donatello b]

go to nearest post/production house - go out RED HD-SDI and into whatever deck they have with HD-SDI ....

or ? turn off all on screen info in RED EVF - go out the other HDMI and into canon HV 20 or some other camera with HDMI ?

[Steve Gibby]

ENG (electronic news gathering) is a tiny portion, with limited application, of the overall spectrum of EFP uses for RED One. I emphasized that in my EFP/ENG for RED sticky at the head of this forum. The situation cited at the beginning of this thread is an abnormal side-use of RED One that might arise occasionally - ENG stringing. The vast majority of the other non-hardlined EFP uses for RED One, which are numerically the most common collective genres of production in the motion media industry, don't require the quick turnaround drama mentioned in the thread opening post, thus there will be a selection of solutions for them.

As REDCINE get wider distribution, and NLEs increasingly support REDCODE natively, even the situation mentioned may have some easier and quicker solutions.

Dumping the footage out the HD-SDI ports of the camera into the station/network NLE appears to be the easiest solution.

We'll know a lot more about field/post workflow solutions when the finalized specifications for the RED One syatem are published.

[Ken Willinger]

In the original post I'm assuming the camera would have had a mic attached. However, if I recall correctly (I may be wrong), audio does not flow from the HD-SDI out...only video. Is there audio out on the camera...besides headphone audio?

[Steve Gibby]

"The HD preview output (HD-SDI and HDMI, its the same signal) provides a Surround View + active record area + select graphics + audio."

Stuart English
2/6/07
REDUser
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=444&page=19



"We have “dual link” HD-SDI outputs - always clean feed and can only show the active recording area. These two HD-SDI outputs also include embedded audio and timecode.

Then we independently have a signal that is represented physically as both an HDMI and an HD-SDI (lets call it HD Preview to avoid confusion with the other HD-SDI outputs) signal. While in shot setup or recording it shows the record area + look around area, its understood that its desirable to also have some degree of user selection / control over programmable frame guide overlays, and these also have embedded digital audio plus timecode."

Stuart English
2/3/07
REDUser
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=444&page=15



-------------------------


The final specs haven't been released yet, but hopefully what Stuart menioned above is in the final specs. If it is then the HD-SDI solution for offloading with embedded audio is available.

[Jason Murphy]

prores is not currently functional as a capture codec, without a card. is there a card which can be used with a macbook pro to capture pro res? (i'm not sure about this but i am thinking not....i think you need a tower to capture pro res...) anyone?

interesting question....

http://www.aja.com/html/products_Io_IoHD.html

Hook it up to a MBP, and you're capturing ProRes onto a laptop in real time. Don't see any reason why this shouldn't work.

[Ken Willinger]

The final specs haven't been released yet, but hopefully what Stuart menioned above is in the final specs. If it is then the HD-SDI solution for offloading with embedded audio is available.

Good to know. Thanks Gibby!

[planet e]

Planet e, do you have FCP 6 running on an intel based mac and now this statement to be a fact? Please edify us all.
See video:

http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/action/?movie=red

Did you mean that REDCODE in FCP 6 is not yet enabled and that one will need a I/O card to output the HD and above resolutions or record to HDCAM SR decks?

from the apple white paper: FCP6 HD and Broadcast Formats (downloadable as a pdf...)

(pro res) "Can be used to capture using a third-party video interface with SDI or HD-SDI inputs."

and yes, i have FCP6 and there is no native pro res capture enabled without a 3rd-party device...you need to capture as something else (HDV, DVCPRO HD, etc.) and transcode. that's why i was asking about a capture card. the AJA IO-HD would work, i'm pretty sure, but it's not that portable....(at least, not for the scenario described in the opening post, anyway....)

[JohnF]

Thanks Gibby!

Now that it seems we're getting embedded audio it it looks like it's HD-SDI.
Another mystery solved!

Just to point out I largely agree with Gibby's excellent sticky at head of the forum and his above comments but I'd like to make it clear that "being prepared" is my motto as the scenario I posed is not uncommon enough that it hasn't already happened several times in my career. ENG stringing can make one a bit of extra money or even a lot of extra money depending on the scale of the event one captures.

So it's good to know that even in these early days of RED there will be a method of getting the pictures to the networks.

JohnF