eSATA to RAID until RedDrive ships?

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Since the RedDrives may not be available until 2008 we're all going to be shooting CF for a while, which is great unless your project requires longer run times.

Will the eSATA spigot be hot in the early units and if so can it run to anything besides a RED media solution? Maybe a laptop on a cart with a small RAID?? Just askin...

[Greg M]

did I miss something...who said the RedDrives wont be available until 2008?

[Brook Willard]

Yeah, this is news to me as well...?

[David Battistella]

Since the RedDrives may not be available until 2008 we're all going to be shooting CF for a while, which is great unless your project requires longer run times.

Will the eSATA spigot be hot in the early units and if so can it run to anything besides a RED media solution? Maybe a laptop on a cart with a small RAID?? Just askin...

Blair,

Were you not able to order one or more of these with number 19?

David

[Blair S. Paulsen]

First of all I used the qualifier "may not", not "will not" (insert here Yoda-ism, appropriate it will likely be).

Second, was this post from the Red Leader himself:

Currently, 8GB cards that we will certify are available. We believe that in October we will certify 16GB cards. It seems possible that in Q2 of 2008 32GB cards might become available.
We love Compact Flash. The real alternative is RED Drive with 2.5" flash drives. But prices won't be competitive until after the 1st of the year.

Jim

For interpretation, open it is. Perhaps RedDrives with laptop style disc drives rather than flash drives will be available with the first shipping cameras.

Anyone on the Red Team want to clear this up? I certainly do not want to spread mis-information.

(Side note, the same day that RED is shipping the first production cameras is also the same day that Karl Rove no longer works at the White House. As someone who appreciates truth in areas of life beyond imaging technology it should be a truly great day. Sorry about the OT)

[Jim Arthurs]

The real alternative is RED Drive with 2.5" flash drives. But prices won't be competitive until after the 1st of the year.

I don't think that says anything about HD based RED DRIVEs being delayed...

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I don't think that says anything about HD based RED DRIVEs being delayed...

Valid interpretation Jim, I really hope you're right. I love the RedDrive media option. Alert my wife - I WANT to be wrong on this.

[David Battistella]

Sorry Blair,

I thought with such a low number you had been contacted and told that they were not available. Thanks for clarifying.

I would suspect that the REDDRIVE as it stands is not that complicated a piece of machinery for use with the RED and the connections and drive array were worked out a while ago.

I think that the REDDRIVE is a huge selling point for RED in very particular area's of production, so I doubt they would be holding them back.

I wonder if there will be any third party portable drive for the RED too?

David

[Craig Schober]

I think that the REDDRIVE is a huge selling point for RED in very particular area's of production, so I doubt they would be holding them back.

while i agree that the compact flash option is great and will be ordering the port myself, i think people are downplaying the red drive too much. i see the red drive as a valid means of capture for 90% of applications. of course i'm assuming moderately low noise levels and moderate power draw but after that, who wouldn't want several hours of capture space?

i understand the temperature/humidity/vibration/overall reliability issues but i plan to use red drive into the middle of next year almost exclusively. until cf cards hit 64gb at a reasonable price, i only see them as cheaper p2 alternatives. as an indy filmmaker, one of things i would love to leave behind are extraneous crew positions that involve "changing mags" for every few minutes of footage shot.

[Michael Hastings]

I believe the reddrive hard disk was used on crossing the line, Jim was talking about the use of flashdrive based reddrive will be 2008.

By the way I agree that people are downgrading hard drives too much. These exact same laptop drives have been used very successfully in field and news production in the Ikegami editcams since 1999. I owned three for two years and never had a problem. Hard drives are very reliable, for any normal EFP, ENG, shooting. If you are really banging around there may be some short term issues but I know from experience for example that G force/gyro errors are more of an issue with HDV on the Sony Z1 and thousands of Z1s are in use everyday.





while i agree that the compact flash option is great and will be ordering the port myself, i think people are downplaying the red drive too much. i see the red drive as a valid means of capture for 90% of applications. of course i'm assuming moderately low noise levels and moderate power draw but after that, who wouldn't want several hours of capture space?

i understand the temperature/humidity/vibration/overall reliability issues but i plan to use red drive into the middle of next year almost exclusively. until cf cards hit 64gb at a reasonable price, i only see them as cheaper p2 alternatives. as an indy filmmaker, one of things i would love to leave behind are extraneous crew positions that involve "changing mags" for every few minutes of footage shot.

[David Battistella]

as an indy filmmaker, one of things i would love to leave behind are extraneous crew positions that involve "changing mags" for every few minutes of footage shot.

It's true, part of the liberation of RED can also be the freedom to work alone in remote area's. In some of my travels (like the arctic for example) it has been necessary to travel light with a very small crew (two or one at times). The RED DRIVE is perfect for this type of set-up where long recording times may be needed while maintaining a stack of CF as well.

I think that the REDDRIVE makes "non tape doc production" way more accessible than P2 or Firestore.

I'd love it if the REDDRIVE could be used as a field back up drive as well. So you could shoot CF all day and back them up to RED DRIVES via the CAMERA.

I hope they are considering this in the workflow as it eliminates the need to carry a laptop.

David

[Craig Schober]

It's true, part of the liberation of RED can also be the freedom to work alone in remote area's. In some of my travels (like the arctic for example) it has been necessary to travel light with a very small crew (two or one at times). The RED DRIVE is perfect for this type of set-up where long recording times may be needed while maintaining a stack of CF as well.

I think that the REDDRIVE makes "non tape doc production" way more accessible than P2 or Firestore.

I'd love it if the REDDRIVE could be used as a field back up drive as well. So you could shoot CF all day and back them up to RED DRIVES via the CAMERA.

I hope they are considering this in the workflow as it eliminates the need to carry a laptop.

David


someone introduced this product back a few weeks ago to the forum:

http://www.eastgear.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=17_101&products_id=833

it's the simplest backup solution for cf cards because it doesn't require a laptop, external drives or even ac power. it even does a bit by bit verification after copies are made. only downside is that you're removing actual footage viewing/verification from the loop but that can be a plus for shoots on a tight timeline.

hey, i'm quoting myself.

[David Battistella]

hey, i'm quoting myself.

This is a good idea, however, I think it would be nice to not have to carry any more than you have to. If you already have a large capacity REDDRIVE, then why carry, yet another piece of gear.

We already know that we are going to ahve to carry Mattebox, or circular filters (nd's etc) drives, batteries, etc. etc. Why not limit the amount of gear by having the CF's back up to the RED DRIVEs?

David

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Second, was this post from the Red Leader himself:

Currently, 8GB cards that we will certify are available. We believe that in October we will certify 16GB cards. It seems possible that in Q2 of 2008 32GB cards might become available.
We love Compact Flash. The real alternative is RED Drive with 2.5" flash drives. But prices won't be competitive until after the 1st of the year.

Jim

Seeing that Jim said "flash drives", I am assuming he's talking about a RED DRIVE or RED RAM using 2.5" SSDs and not actual hard drives. We have seen nothing to indicate that magnetic HDD based RED DRIVES won't be available. But you'll know for sure before the rest of us you lucky #19 guy. If the drives aren't available and it puts you in a bind, I'll buy #19 from you. :)

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Seeing that Jim said "flash drives", I am assuming he's talking about a RED DRIVE or RED RAM using 2.5" SSDs and not actual hard drives. We have seen nothing to indicate that magnetic HDD based RED DRIVES won't be available. But you'll know for sure before the rest of us you lucky #19 guy. If the drives aren't available and it puts you in a bind, I'll buy #19 from you. :)

Wow Jeff, you must be loaded - one way or another :clown2:

Seriously, I am hopeful that the hard disk based RedDrives are stacked to the ceiling over at RED HQ - I'm planning to get at least 3.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Wow Jeff, you must be loaded - one way or another

Hehe... Just teasin'... :clown2:

...or maybe I'm not. :greedy: :wacko: :greedy:


Seriously, I am hopeful that the hard disk based RedDrives are stacked to the ceiling over at RED HQ - I'm planning to get at least 3.

I hope so too. Many people need them.

[Emanuel A.]

Concerning the RED DRIVE shipping, this has been referred here before:

LINK (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=72947#post72947)

[Rocco Schult]

This is a good idea, however, I think it would be nice to not have to carry any more than you have to. If you already have a large capacity REDDRIVE, then why carry, yet another piece of gear.

We already know that we are going to ahve to carry Mattebox, or circular filters (nd's etc) drives, batteries, etc. etc. Why not limit the amount of gear by having the CF's back up to the RED DRIVEs?

David

Normally I'd agree - I am fan of good ideas ;-) and multi-use. Getting rid of a lappy at times would be nice too.
But: The fact that the Red-Drive is a striped volume makes it rather unattractive for me as backup-drive. Failure probability is doubled.
One drive dead, data gone...
And: you need the camera power to backup which might be good to save in those arctic areas..
I am thinking about one of THOSE (http://www.nextodi.de/nexto-cf-ultra-nd2525.htm) little backup units for such and other situations.
But also here I wonder about its durabilty (and power consumption).

[David Battistella]

Normally I'd agree - I am fan of good ideas ;-) and multi-use. Getting rid of a lappy at times would be nice too.
But: The fact that the Red-Drive is a striped volume makes it rather unattractive for me as backup-drive. Failure probability is doubled.
One drive dead, data gone...
And: you need the camera power to backup which might be good to save in those arctic areas..
I am thinking about one of THOSE (http://www.nextodi.de/nexto-cf-ultra-nd2525.htm) little backup units for such and other situations.
But also here I wonder about its durabilty (and power consumption).

I think we should be confident about the quality of the REDDRIVE and not get to freaky about how it will have a propensity to fail (even though I know that all hard drives eventually fail). It is a 320 GIG drive which will allow for long recording times and more storage than any of the units that copy CF cards (which have at least the same ability to fail as a RED DRIVE.

I think the perfect solution would be to have two slots for CF cards and TWO of the CF card drive readers (copy each card twice before reformating) this would allow for some card swapping on longer interviews, or instances when longer record times are needed.

I have also suggested an audio only recording mode for the longer interviews as most of the time the dialog is used as voice over.

To me it's all about flexibility and portability. We have seen the RED in many tricked out full production, feature style looks (and believe me the industrial design of this camera is very sexy) but I like the stripped down look that they showed us when it was in the hands of one of the crank film makers.

To me that looked like a very practical set up.

David