How much is an operational Red camera cost?

[oldcharlie]

I know that the Red site list the body of Red at $17,500. But that just the body and it's not operational without many other accessories like a lense or a Red Drive, correct? Can anyone estimate how much will it cost for an operational Red camera? I'm inerested in the total cost of a Red camera that when I open the box I can assemble the pieces and start shooting.

[G.A. Kokes]

Hi!

That is a very good question. One that has been addressed many times here, but not all too lately.

The answer can be quite complicated, as it depends on what you are planning to do with the camera. How much redundancy is needed will dictate, for instance how many batteries, Red Drives etc are needed.

I believe that a basic package can be had for around $25,000. If you go with Nikon mount, lenses will be relatively inexpensive, however may not be ideal for certain shoots. We are going with PL, as this is what our company is familiar with.

So the first question to you is: What do you plan on doing with RED? I am sure others here can chime in and help you pick a good set up.

Good Luck!
G

[Keith Alan Morris]

17500 body
1450 pwer pak
500 fmount
1700 lcd screen
120 arm
21270 total before lens

[Zach Nelson]

if I took the plunge, or should i say when i take the plunge, i think the package was like $48,000

to which my wife said, "just rent it"

[oldcharlie]

Many thanks for all your responses. I'm very interested in the camera. I'm likely to order it...but at least now. I like to know more about the camera and when I have some cash in hand first. With that said, basically my goal is to shoot some feature film...indie filming. Will someone recommend a good lense for shooting feature film for this camera? I'm very new to this camera and the lenses that it can take.

One other thing, if I'm shooting on a steadicam or on a jib, I can use my on LCD screen or will I have to use the Red LCD screen?

[Keith Alan Morris]

If you could only afford two lenses:

"Wide-Angle Zoom Lenses(from what I hear this is one of the best lenses made)
17-35mm f/2.8D ED-IF AF-S Zoom-Nikkor

This lens was not on the nikon site but can be found used and in good shape
80-200mm F/2.8D AF ED IF

From what I understand, the further the lens is from the censor, the shallower the depth of field thus the 80-200mm. (about $725.00 on e-bay)

This will be accentuated by the distance from the sensor already. I think you multiply 1.56 to the Zoom making it approx. 120-300mm.

This gives you one hell of a Zoom and the potential for a very shallow DOF.

Because of the conversion rate I would also get a 14mm F/2.8 prime giving me 21mm for wide angle.

The only other lens I am looking at is the 28-70mm F2.8D AF ED IF.
Just to sew up the middle.

Again I am not a pro. This is all from hours of research, and trying to understand."

[oldcharlie]

Thanks a bunch, km900. I'll keep that in mind when I'm ordering the Red camera.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

The average orders we are getting are in the 30-35,000 range.. this is for a pretty dialed in set up... of course you can spend more.. but i would say on average.. 30-35

[Floris Liesker]

if I took the plunge, or should i say when i take the plunge, i think the package was like $48,000

to which my wife said, "just rent it"

Yes, good idea. I can recommend this guy: www.piranhafilm.nl :)

[Darwin]

17500 body
1450 pwer pak
500 fmount
1700 lcd screen
120 arm
21270 total before lens

I believe The LCD comes with a arm included in the price. Hope I'm not mistaken on that one.

[Damien Molineaux]

17500 body
1450 pwer pak
500 fmount
1700 lcd screen
120 arm
21270 total before lens

Yes, arm is included with the LCD, however there is no recording support here, you would need either a Red Flash module ($500) and some CF cards (~$200 for 8GB), or a Red Drive ($900). You will also need some way of attaching the battery and Red Drive if you get it, unless you want to build your own, I would opt for the basic package ($1250). Then still remains the lens(es).

Personally I'll get the Viewfinder before the LCD, so my list goes :

17500 body
1250 basic prod. package
1450 power pack (I'll be getting two of these eventually)
500 flash module (highly recommended whatever else you get)
900 red drive (you'd probably want at least two of these, but CF can be a backup solution)
2950 viewfinder
500 Nikon mount (if you want to use Nikon lenses, alternative is the Birger mount but may not be available right away)

25050 total before lens

If you can afford them, forget the Nikon mount and get the two Red zooms
$6500 + $8500, those'll cover most of your needs.

Cheers,
Damien

[Zach Nelson]

What about the primes? Are the zooms so good that the primes wouldn't make much difference? (too early to tell I suppose)

[liquidigital]

Yeah primes are sharper, faster, and generally cheaper, although I can't imagine trying to focus pull faster than 2.8. Talk about no margin for error. And the convenience of zooms is great when it comes to efficiency. I'd go Nikon primes to save money, but if you have the mustard, go with the Red Zooms.

[Damien Molineaux]

The primes may be a tack sharper, but the main advantage is they open wider. With a base ISO of 500 and the capacity for pushing Red Raw images seem to have, like I said, the zooms would cover most of your needs. There will always be cases when you will need something else.

And yes the quality of all the Red lenses remains to be proven, but I am confident.

Cheers,
Damien

[Craig Schober]

One other thing, if I'm shooting on a steadicam or on a jib, I can use my on LCD screen or will I have to use the Red LCD screen?

the only 3rd party lcd that you can use with red will have to take sdi or hdmi inputs. the red lcd and evf use proprietary red connections.

[Michael Stanmore]

I'm gearing up from scratch. People in my boat generally are throwing around figures in the $40000 ballpark.

[Jaime Vallés]

Definite purchase:
RED ONE camera - $17,500
Basic Production Pack - $1,250
Power Pack (Charger & 2 Batteries) - $1,450
RED LCD screen - $1,700
Compact Flash module - $500
GRAND TOTAL - $22,400

Then for lenses it gets trickier...

Option A:
Zeiss ZF 25mm f2.8 - $787
Zeiss ZF 35mm f2 - $787
Zeiss ZF 50mm f1.4 - $492
Zeiss ZF 85mm f1.4 - $984
RED Nikon F mount - $500
Redrock Micro Follow Focus - $500
GRAND TOTAL - $4050

or Option B:
Nikon 17-35mm f2.8D ED-IF AF-S - $1480
Nikon 28-70mm f2.8 ED-IF AF-S - $1435
Birger Nikon Electronic mount w/ Follow Focus - $1400
GRAND TOTAL - $4315

We'll see how lens testing goes before I commit to Options A or B. Then, I'll add 4 or 5 CompactFlash cards. With my $2500 allowance, that comes out to a grand total of less than $25,000. I'm a happy camper right now. :sorcerer:

[Jim Arthurs]

I'm pretty sure either a matte box + ND's or other ND method is a dead necessity with that high ASA rating if you ever want to shoot outdoors... so allow enough for a good selection of ND's in your chosen format.

Besides that, budgeting for RED falls into a "Closed loop...you are your own shooting universe" mode of thinking, with DYI Nikon or Canon glass and 2nd tier focus and lighting control accessories, or "Ready to rent to film professionals" mode where you're staying PL and have enough kit on hand that you're a one stop shop when someone needs a RED package from you with industry standard focus and filter control.

And of course, everything in between and beyond... the good thing about RED is that there are so many options... and don't forget those who might want to shoot windowed S16 or the like... then you're talking a different set of lens needs...

[PaulClements]

You could put together a working RedOne camera for <$20k if you want to ($17,500 if you have the $2,500 allowance). I wouldn't.

[Leo Ticheli]

The total package price of a Red Camera package depends on what system it is replacing and what sacrifices you're willing to make for the jobs you have.

In my case, our VariCams replaced film cameras; they are equipped with Matte Box, Follow Focus, wide & long zooms, and on-camera LCD monitors. Add four Anton Bauer 140 Batteries and Charger and Client Monitor and you've got a pretty pricey, but versatile system.

For Red to do the same kinds of jobs, we've selected the following:

On order from Red:
1. Camera Body
2. Premium Production Pack
3. Viewfinder
4. LCD Monitor
5. 2 ea. Disc Drives
6. CF Module
7. The 18-50 Red Zoom for hand-held or SteadiCam use.
We plan to use our Anton Bauer Batteries on the Red, so I've not ordered the Red Power.

Unfortunately, my Chrosziel Matte Box won't cover the big Cooke, so I'll be buying a new one and new Follow Focus. Those boys aren't cheap; maybe Red will have something for us by the time we get Red delivery in December.

Have you priced 6" x 6" filters lately? A basic set of ND 3,6,9 & Circular Polarizer is an eye-opener. Again, my old filters are too small, so we've got to have new ones.

Additionally, we've got our Cooke 18-100 zoom, which will be our primary lens, but plan to add a set of Primes, either the Red set or used Zeiss and a very wide lens or two. As you know, these are not cheap; I'm looking in the used market as well as the Russian lenses. Wish Red would offer a 10MM and sell the 15MM outside the set.

Even with a lot of used gear it's easy to burn upwards of 70K, which sounds like a lot until you consider the cost of 2/3" chip HD cameras from Panasonic and Sony. Throw some good glass on them and they can cost even more than Red. As far as I'm concerned, the new Sony F23 is DOA after Red. Far too much money for far too little.

It's my view that even a fully configured Red package is a bargain; can't wait for the fat guy in the red suit to come down the chimney in December!

Good shooting and best regards to all,

Leo

[Damien Molineaux]

I'm pretty sure either a matte box + ND's or other ND method is a dead necessity with that high ASA rating if you ever want to shoot outdoors... so allow enough for a good selection of ND's in your chosen format.

cut...

Yes, Jim has posted a warning about this. NDs are required, and you'll probably want to have a mattebox also.

Cheers,
Damien

[Jaime Vallés]

You could put together a working RedOne camera for <$20k if you want to ($17,500 if you have the $2,500 allowance). I wouldn't.
Let's see...

RED ONE - $17500
RED Brick - $450
RED Charger - $550
RED LCD - $1700
RED FLASH CF Module - $500
(1) CompactFlash card - $200
RED F mount (Nikon) - $500
Nikon 28-70mm f2.8 AF-S Zoom - $1400
TOTAL - $22,800
Minus $2500 allowance
GRAND TOTAL - $20,300

How would you make it cheaper? A used lens is the only thing I can think of. Everything else is the bare minimum.

[Damien Molineaux]

Let's see...

RED ONE - $17500
RED Brick - $450
RED Charger - $550
RED LCD - $1700
RED FLASH CF Module - $500
(1) CompactFlash card - $200
RED F mount (Nikon) - $500
Nikon 28-70mm f2.8 AF-S Zoom - $1400
TOTAL - $22,800
Minus $2500 allowance
GRAND TOTAL - $20,300

How would you make it cheaper? A used lens is the only thing I can think of. Everything else is the bare minimum.

Well, just replace you $1400 lens by an excellent Nikon 50mm f1.4 which you can find for $100 and you're in at $19,000. Of course only having a 50mm lens would be quite limiting, but then so is a 17-35mm. The point being, as Paul Clements mentioned, you can do it, but he wouldn't, and neither would I.

Actually for below $20,000 I would suggest :

RED ONE - $17500
RED One Power Pack - $1450
RED LCD - $1700
RED Drive - $900
RED F mount (Nikon) - $500
Nikon 50mm f1.4 - $100
TOTAL - $22,150
Minus $2500 allowance
GRAND TOTAL - $19,650

At least you have two batteries and can record more than 4 min of 4k. There remains a problem, how do you attach the Red Brick and Red Drive, how do you hold the camera ? I think a Basic Prod. pkg is pretty much a requirement, making the concept of a below $20,000 unrealistic. However you could get a decent realistic setup below $25,000. For a realistic setup I think you need to include a mattebox and ND filters, and either a good zoom or more lenses.

Cheers,
Damien

[PaulClements]

RedOne - $17500
3rd Party Chinese Vlock Battery, Charger & Mount - $450
Blackmagic HDSDI to DVI Converter + 720p computer monitor - $600
RED FLASH CF Module - $500
8GB CompactFlash card - $200
RED F mount (Nikon) - $500
Nikon 18-135mm f3.5-5.6 - $240

Total = $19990 (Not including Allowance)

Like I say though, I wouldn't. For starters you have no follow focus so you would be having to focus using the lens, no mattebox so you would be confined to slr filters, you'd have no tripod, you would have to cradle the entire camera as you have no handles and the monitoring option would require a power source the whole time. At the very least I would add the Birger Mount, top handle and LCD to that, which would increase the price by about $2200 plus whatever the top handle cost. If you have the allowance though that ought to still be <$20k. Again, this is not a setup I would buy. I'd want better lenses, a decent tripod and fluid head, plenty of CF cards, the EVF, decent batteries etc etc. But for the sake of argument I thought I'd throw it in there :)

I could shoot a movie with this setup, would I want to... no.


Let's see...

RED ONE - $17500
RED Brick - $450
RED Charger - $550
RED LCD - $1700
RED FLASH CF Module - $500
(1) CompactFlash card - $200
RED F mount (Nikon) - $500
Nikon 28-70mm f2.8 AF-S Zoom - $1400
TOTAL - $22,800
Minus $2500 allowance
GRAND TOTAL - $20,300

How would you make it cheaper? A used lens is the only thing I can think of. Everything else is the bare minimum.

[Ivan Egorov]

What is the deal with the $2500 allowance? Who gets it?

Thanks

[Zach Nelson]

If you were one of the first (x)-number of people that placed reservations last year. Something like that.

[Michael Booth]

I'm interested in buying a basic kit, then building up on it afterwards.

At the moment I'm a HVX200 owner with Red Rock M2 adaptor, P2 store, 2x8gb P2 cards, Marshall HD monitor, Ronford F4 head with shorts and talls.

I'm thinking of selling this up next year (once we've finished a major project - http://www.pleasedsheep.com/bar_stewards_the_movie), and using the money I get from a couple of projects to get a Red. I've already got a collection of Nikons that I use with the RR M2. And I've got an Intel dual core Mac Pro, which I think should handle the Red footage okay (Final Cut Studio). I'll keep the legs and Ronford head, as they've served me well. I don't think the Marshall monitor will be enough to monitor sharps.

The only thing that puts me off (apart from being broke for a good few months till I recoup the money) is the potential wait, as I may get work during that time. I could hire during those months I suppose.

Basic Red kit, I'm thinking...

Red One body
Nikon F Mount
Red One Power Pack (2 batteries + charger + power cable)
Red LCD screen (if my Marshall HDA LCD won't cut it)
Red Drive 320gb

Thoughts anyone?

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Basic Red kit, I'm thinking...

Red One body
Nikon F Mount
Red One Power Pack (2 batteries + charger + power cable)
Red LCD screen (if my Marshall HDA LCD won't cut it)
Red Drive 320gb

Thoughts anyone?

You'll need a production pack too

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

The allowance is for cameras 1-14xx (Anything before NAB 2007) as I recall, I am too lazy to search but I am pretty sure.

(The allowance is/was a reward to anyone who believed in the concept in the early stages)

[Michael Booth]

You'll need a production pack too

Good call ;)

[Bokes]

CF cards seem to be a popular choice for storage. Any reason why over the RED drive? I would think you can hold more with the drive.

[Michael Schrengohst]

I am getting both. The RED drive will be good for
static situations where the camera is not moving.
That hopefully will be tested at the LART.
I know many HVX shooters who run around
with firestores and seem to record alright.

[Brook Willard]

To see the pros and cons of the various storage options, see the RED ONE FAQ - link's in my signature.

[gdv]

I'm pretty sure either a matte box + ND's or other ND method is a dead necessity with that high ASA rating if you ever want to shoot outdoors... so allow enough for a good selection of ND's in your chosen format.

And of course, everything in between and beyond... the good thing about RED is that there are so many options... and don't forget those who might want to shoot windowed S16 or the like... then you're talking a different set of lens needs...

Yes that is why I started a thread named "The complete Red package" a few days ago, but than some people on this forum acting very impolitly posting about the avrage annual income.
I wrote that the package need to be with a matte box a follow focus ND filters some ND filters grad and a Pola filter.
Than you need a head maybe a Ronford F-7 a set of legs with baby and Hi Hat and you need another monitor for the director and when you are shooting a commercial you will need another monitor for the customer.
About shooting 100 fps at 2K windowed you don't need S16 lenses you can use your 35 mm lenses but if you are renting lenses you can have S16 for less.
I would say the Red items will be somewhere between $30K to $40K than you need another $15K to $20K for accessories and than you need lenses.
With this you will end up with a package for a feature film in a low to a mid range budget. You can rent it if you want for some $1500 a week, depends on the market.
Of course one can settle for much less and with a good script and a good mind and eyes have a very well made film.
It is all depends what is your aim, like you are not going to buy a ford Fiesta if you need to ship potatoes to the market, you will get a truck.

[jbeale]

CF cards seem to be a popular choice for storage. Any reason why over the RED drive? I would think you can hold more with the drive.
AFAIK, CF cards are currently the only option that is shipping. Correct me if I'm wrong but as I understand it, the Red drive has not shipped yet.

[tj williams]

In addition support gear such as a high end laptop software and some kind of external fw800 or Esata raid will be needed to backup in the field. Unless you really want to just carry the images which cannot be replaced on one hard drive???
Here look at current systems like Stwo for uncompressed recording. They work on immediately getting the info. into redundent forms, which will need to be worked out for RED Wavelet also.

Monitoring solutions for the director will be needed some kind of critical monitor for video village

Wireless solutions will be needed for Steadicam and other types of remote shooting ie underwater, or unreachable locations like in wall climbing. so the director etc. can somehow see the shots.

[Michael Booth]

CF cards seem to be a popular choice for storage. Any reason why over the RED drive? I would think you can hold more with the drive.

Actually I would prefer CF cards. I'm used to using P2 cards with the HVX200 so I doubt this will be much different. The drive wouldn't be great for run and gun shoots, which I've done a few of over the past 6 months. I need to start reading up on what exactly can be fit on CF cards, and how big they go, suitability of data speeds, etc.


To see the pros and cons of the various storage options, see the RED ONE FAQ - link's in my signature.

That was a good read, thanks :)


In addition support gear such as a high end laptop software and some kind of external fw800 or Esata raid will be needed to backup in the field. Unless you really want to just carry the images which cannot be replaced on one hard drive???
Here look at current systems like Stwo for uncompressed recording. They work on immediately getting the info. into redundent forms, which will need to be worked out for RED Wavelet also.

Like I said above, I'm used to recording to data rather than tape. What we usually do is have two WD hard drives connected to a laptop (with PCMCIA slot), and we use one as the main offload drive, and another as a mirror. It's served us well over the past 18 months. Our only problem is archiving - at the moment all we can do is keep the hard drive in storage and spin it up now and again. Will be good when Blu Ray burners become cheaper and faster.