Pro Audio Features

[killfilm]

hi guys, please be clear and to the point....will an external mixer and recorder still be necessary to record audio since the red is 24bit, 48khz capable? i'm talking production dialog only, not SFX etc.

[Alexis Hanawalt]

... no.

[GlennChan]

You probably want a mixer.

A recorder isn't entirely necessary. A separate recorder might also have some workflow issues that you'd need to figure out.

[Rainer Fritz]

to build a adaptor from mini xlr to normal xlr and retour channel would be necessary i think.... better would be a full duplex wireless system....

[Emmanuel Cambier]

The mixer is still a must, I believe, but you should skip the recorder and thus avoid having to resync the sound.

[Jim Hoffman]

Do you need more than 4 tracks????


Anybody concerned about the impending RF issues with the new broadcast laws... Has great potential to mess with all of our audio toys...

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

Opinion is divided :innocent: As you can read in older threads...
Audio is not enabled on the first RED's out of the factory, so early users will need to record their audio separately.
For myself I have two longer term concerns, which I am hoping will be happily answered by the RED team in time. Firstly given that the camera is only $17500 and that it is a pretty special camera, I am dubious that RED can really afford to put 4 of the best and hence most expensive pre-amps in there. Jim isn't Santa Claus eh..
Secondly I have concerns about how easy it will be for the camera operator to adjust the audio levels, because RED are not putting standard mechanical audio faders on the camera body. We are supposed to use the menu at the back of the camera or the "Supergrip". But Ted is on record saying that the Supergrip is (understandably) not RED's top priority right now and may become available to purchase in Spring/Summer next year. Some people think this is all fine and that RED have answered all these concerns satisfactorily. I do not. I guess you'll have to make up your own mind.. :pinch:

[Michael Morlan]

I can't respond for ENG applications, but for narrative, doc projects, audio always has a separate mixer with which to ride the levels. Once a matching reference has been established between mixer and camera, there should be little need to adjust the camera's levels.

[Hans von Sonntag]

You don't want to be tethered.

Get a external sound recorder from Sounddevice, Tascam, etc. with build-in timecode capabilities. Those new ones record onto CF and are not bigger than a SQN 4, very handy. Name the recorded files for camera (Redcode RAW QT) and sound (Aif/Wav) equally e.g. "love_scene 23.Aug.07" and sync camera and sound device via free-run timecode. Do this once or twice a day and things will be in sync. Syncing in post is really easy this way.

Much safer than recording with a wireless system in camera. Soundmen love to record sounds they find on their way (and editors love them for doing so) without asking the cameraman and cameramen love not to be bothered with soundproblems.

my 0.2 cents

[Chris Gearhart]

Hans, that was exactly what I was thinking. Being tethered is not my favorite state.

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

Michael, Hans, Lakeview: I totally agree. I record a lot of sound myself and use the excellent Sound Devices 744T (I wish it had four mic level inputs though). Whch brings me back to RED. For a lot of ENG, and observational Documentary type stuff, you're on your own and so it's important to be able to record audio directly to the camera. Of course you are hardly likely to need 4 mic level inputs if you are also Directing, Producing and filming the thing; since that's just to many tasks for one person to handle. Equally if we are recording sound to an external device then syncing in post then again 4 mic level inputs on the RED camera is unnecessary. That is my confusion. Having 4 mic level inputs implies that the audio will be top notch and easily adjustable on camera, which it doesn't necessarily seem to be (to me at least). Two mic level inputs with mechanical faders and two line level inputs would have got my vote..

[svenson]

"Two mic level inputs with mechanical faders and two line level inputs would have got my vote.."

i agree.

although some people here doubt that the red one works well for ENG use, i believe it will be used a lot for documentaries (better: i hope so), where an external fader would help a lot.
on the other hand: maybe there´s a company out there, clever enough to build a small 2xfader-box that one can attach to the the cage of the camera... ?!

[GlennChan]

Anybody concerned about the impending RF issues with the new broadcast laws... Has great potential to mess with all of our audio toys...
Mix magazine has an interesting and long article on this. Some people want to set aside some slices of the spectrum for wireless audio.

Another potential solution is that new audio toys will come out that operate at higher frequencies not in use.

[jbeale]

Having 4 mic level inputs implies that the audio will be top notch and easily adjustable on camera, which it doesn't necessarily seem to be (to me at least).

As I recall, they originally were thinking two inputs, and then found out they could do four inputs with not much more work, so they did. I might be recalling incorrectly. As far as "top notch" quality, no one knows- I have not heard that any audio recording is enabled yet. Currently I believe few video cameras have truly top-notch audio even at the higher end of the price scale.

Manual levels- yes, many people have requested dedicated, manual audio faders but I think the mechanical design was frozen without these in place. However (I am guessing here) an external control surface designed by Red or some third party could be added later, connecting via USB.

[tj williams]

My memory is that the convenient one person way to set audio is to adjust it with the handle accessory controls.