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Tom Wardrop
12-29-2009, 09:34 PM
Why do RED feel the need to have so many applications, all trying to achieve much the same thing? There's RED ALERT!, REDCINE, REDCINE-X, ROCKETCINE-X and something I keep hearing called RED Rushes? They all seem to be doing roughly the same thing, so why not just focus time and energy on one piece of software, instead of spending time on 5 pieces of software; none of which are out of beta, and so as a result, none of which currently work reliably.

I'm just wondering what the thinking is behind that? Are the RED developers just testing different implementations? What's the go exactly?

Loyd Bateman
12-29-2009, 09:48 PM
Probably different configurations to see what people like best. I'm sure they'll refine it soon enough

BigLu
12-29-2009, 11:15 PM
I have answered this question before, so there is a solid post out there with your answers but I cant find it.
So ill explain how I personally use all the different softwares.

#1 FLEXIBILITY its KING to me.
Dont let it frustrate you, download it, learn it , use it. I think RED DVD 101 said that.
Its an excellent statment.

In order of what you asked.
RED ALERT i believe made by RED wonderful for checking a single clip from the R3D and rendering out a single clip quick and easy.
I mostly use it for Changing the Metadata to a clip and apply that setting (RSX) to REDRushes when batch transcoding clips.

REDCine made possible by RED with Assimilate the company that makes Scratch.
Very powerful program, makes 1light grading possible to individual clips on a per clip basis, lets you see the R3D and spot check clips on the fly, lets you check focus in a 1:1 pixel ratio on your screen, and gives you tons of options when transcoding.
I use Clipfinder in a similar fashion just depends on what i need to do.
Clipfinder is SWEEEET.

REDCine X Rocketcine X wonderful programs powerful with REDRocket and just kicks ass.
You have to play with it to see its capabilities for viewing and transcoding.
FAST and FRESH, still new so it has room to grow and improve.

REDRuhes I LOVE and use on most of my projects to transcode hundreds of clips threw-out the day.
Simple to use once you learn it, takes advantage of multiple processors to transcode multiple clips at single time.
POWERFUL.

They seem to do roughly the same thing but are very useful in various ways ie. Flexibility when dealing with RED R3D footage.
For me all of them work reliable, they may not do what im trying to force and they may not function the way i expect, but with experience overtime i learn their advantages and just focus on that.

Im not saying everything is perfect, they improve as time goes on some are more stable than others.

Like any piece of software i have ever purchased, borrowed , bought or used.
They have their issues to deal with, its hard very hard to pinpoint a software that has all the answers or is the end all be all.
I can see a Pablo covering mostly everything. But then again its something like $400 Grand for a Pablo, so thats not fair to compare.

Big difference.
These are free and its hard to beat FREE.

I hope that helps.
Luis Flores Jr

Tom Wardrop
12-30-2009, 06:49 PM
REDcine X and RocketCine X are prime examples. Both of theme try to achieve the exact same thing, the only difference is that one leverages the power of REDrocket while the other doesn't. Wouldn't it make more sense to have just the one program, which can auto-detect the presence of a REDrocket and use it if available?

There are some fundamental problems though with having many programs, versus one or two. The first is, the more programs you have, generally speaking, the more lines of code you have, and the more code repetition. Both of which lead to more bugs. From a users perspective those, it's inconsistencies which are the biggest problem. Inconsistencies in the interface, functionality and behaviour are what will really annoy people. The sheer number of a available software which all "seems" to do the same thing is also very confusing.

I just think it's a no brainer that the less software packages, the better. But being early days, it's understandable that RED may be playing with different implementations and interface approaches like I said, but it would be good to hear from someone who knows the thinking behind all the software. A software roadmap would also be good.

Stephen Gentle
12-30-2009, 07:30 PM
REDcine X and RocketCine X are prime examples. Both of theme try to achieve the exact same thing, the only difference is that one leverages the power of REDrocket while the other doesn't. Wouldn't it make more sense to have just the one program, which can auto-detect the presence of a REDrocket and use it if available?

Totally wrong there... RedCine-X does use the RED ROCKET if it's available. In the monitor window you should be able to see that there's an indicator (with an icon of a rocket) that goes orange if it's using the card.

RedCine-X is really the only app you really need. RED RUSHES is useful to have for when you need to render out a whole heap of clips for, say, editing them as proxies though. The original REDCINE is no longer in development as far as I know.

As for RocketCine-X, that was originally for when the RED ROCKET was new, and RedCine-X was still in development and hadn't been released. It's still useful for reviewing clips and doing batch rendering like Red Alert and Red Rushes.

Zach Gray
12-30-2009, 08:51 PM
I think what we are seeing is the result of test-bed apps being released to meet the customer needs on a faster schedule. In development, it can be easier to make a stand alone program that is very specific and doesn't run the risk of breaking the rest of the app.

My guesses,

RED ALERT!: This was the internal test bed application for the camera where they could quickly test debayer and coloromitery. My guess it was released for it's simplicity and because many users were having stability problems with REDCINE. Also, REDCINE was under developmental control of Assimilate, and couldn't keep pace with the constant innovations from RED.

REDCINE: The original do all 'digital lab' app. I think everything was supposed to happen here. When the cam was released, RED wasn't really a software company and Jim brokered a deal to have Assimilate provide the post solution. Assimilate took the code base and libraries for Scratch and simplified them and included the debayer from RED. Problem was that Scratch systems are carefully qualified, and REDCINE was being run on every imaginable computer, and crashing. Turns out the workflow wasn't great, the stability wasn't great, the speed wasn't great. Imagine the poor development team at Assimilate, being split between their main product and the dumbed down step child. It didn't make business sense to keep pouring limited resources into something that wasn't really meeting the needs. To my knowledge, development of REDCINE has stopped.

REDLine: The terminal app that was called by other front end apps before RED released the SDK. MonkeyExt, Crimson, RedRushes, Clipfinder, R3D data, qMaster...

REDRushes: A personal project by Deanan on his own time to meet on-set needs for 'Dalies' or 'Rushes'. Most likely will be usurped by REDCINE-X It's a front end to RedLine.

SDK: The API's (libraries/functions that other programs can call). This provides lower level access to the .r3d data and allows program control over how the debayer process works, then spits out a 16bit rgb image. (super buggy in nuke, btw)

ROCKETCINE-X: Test bed app that uses REDCINE-X libraries, released because they needed sw support for Rocket, but couldn't afford interfere with the REDCINE-X sprint. I think Rob and Deanan got this working, but my guess is that it will die with a 1.0 release of REDCINE-X

REDCINE-X: Red is taking charge of the post side of things with this app. I see it as an effort to consolidate the software and simplify the post process. If they can build a program with an extensible architecture they can develop rapidly and maintain stability. (Especially now that it's in house!) I'd bet that all the functionality of the other apps will fold into this product, and with the rumored openFX plugins, could be quite awesome. In keeping with Jim's much loved give 'em what we've got, even if it ain't perfect yet, community based product development genius, it was released when it was functional, not perfect. I'm pretty sure the 1.0 release that coincides with the stage 2 roll out will be pretty polished.

I'm probably wrong on a few points, but that's my take after watching the boards for a couple years.

Tom Wardrop
01-02-2010, 02:14 AM
Ok, so what I gather now is that REDCINE-X will eventually supersede all the other software. That's certainly comforting to know. At this stage, I just want something that works with a reasonably good user interface. Currently, none of the currently available solutions meet either one of those criteria, hence this thread I guess.

Andrae Palmer
01-02-2010, 04:24 AM
I hear ya Tom... heck I'm just hoping for more than 12fps playback at 1/2 res on REDCine-X without the REDRocket. I can't believe it can't do this currently. I don't know how people without a REDRocket card can use it.