Werner Herzog and RED

[Phillip Stefani]

Someone just passed along this snippet from an interview with Werner Herzog in the latest DGA Quarterly:

Q: What about shooting digitally?

A: We used the RED camera for My Son, My Son, What Have Ye Done. It's an immature camera created by computer people who do not have a sensibility or understanding for the value of high-precision mechanics, which has a 200-year history. It's terrible: Whenever you have to reboot the camera, it takes 4½ minutes or so. It drove me insane, because sometimes something is happening and you can't just push the button and record it. An assistant cameraman said this camera would be ideal if we were filming the National Library in Paris, which has been sitting there for centuries. But everything that moves faster than a library is a problem for the RED.

full interview is HERE (http://www.dgaquarterly.org/BACKISSUES/Winter2010/DGAInterviewWernerHerzog.aspx)

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Just another example of an old school film maker who is afraid of change...
the camera takes 90 seconds... not 4 1/2 min...

Im wondering if he had a bad DIT onset which made his experience less than perfect.

These guys who know nothing about digital and are unwilling to learn, simply fear it. they feel as if their lively hood is getting pushed aside and they cant keep up with the new tech..

[Vico Martin]

yesterday the shatter of a 435 pannavised crash when filming an Audi comercial, the director drove insane... (this is real)

how many times a RedOne needs to rebot??
how many times a Arri needs to re-charge??

[Justin Kirchhoff]

Wow.

First of all, computer people can't just "make a camera". As the RED team has shown over the past few years, it takes a lot of time and way too much effort to even dive into the thought of it.

Second of all, immature camera? WTF? I'm sure the first R1 camera holders have realized how much the camera HAS matured over it's lifetime, which has only been slightly 2 years. The RED rocks, but as with any single individual it might not be a good fit. For someone like Werner, the guy has been shooting film for over 30 years, of course it'll be hard for him to adapt. He's a classic filmmaker and he perfected the way you use a film camera. He won't be able to just turn around and start getting used to digital in a heartbeat.

And why the hell did he shoot a movie with the cam when he was having all these problems? Didn't he do any tests with it? And if he did then why didn't he notice the problems then?

4 1/2 minutes to boot a camera? Be serious now. That's absolutely ridiculous.

"...everything that moves faster than a library is a problem for the RED." <---I think that's a big HELL NO.

Gamer is a great example of how fast RED can move, plus a dozen other movies, tv shows, commercials out there.

[Peter Strietmann]

Herzog is a fool. Some people don't know when to bow out gracefully.

[Adil Lahoulou]

Oh I'm sure he'll reconsider eventually. Fool? Doubt it. He's a passionate artist with specific expectations. I remember not long ago I attended a talk featuring Fincher where he dogged the RED as immature blah blah blah. Now he's an advocate.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

you need to be creative AND tech savvy..
especially now days..
he needs to know his camera as much as his artistic side.

hes going to fall behind

[Stephen Williams]

hes going to fall behind

Not really, he can continue to shoot film, which at present is better than any digital camera. You could equally say he has an advantage. 90 seconds is an incredibly long time to have to wait for a camera to boot, the new RED cameras will boot in 2 seconds so RED was listening.

[David Wyatt]

Wow you'd think someone of his calibre (and the crews he choses to work with) would do a tiny bit of research and invest in a battery hot-swap plate if the boot-up times pain them so much ("4 ½ minutes" smacks of hyperbole to say the least!) :001_rolleyes:

[David Wilson]

Lear's fool...

[axel ebermann]

Herzog is a fool. Some people don't know when to bow out gracefully.

Sorry - I need to defend one of my idols here :-)

Herzog is not a fool. He is a genius and one of the ballsiest and most creative filmmakers around.

[Jon B.]

yada yada yada, and he might say something just to 'rebel' against independent film culture taking such a liking to RED. Werner Herzog wants to stand alone I'm sure.

[Shawn Bannon]

The number one problem with the Red for me is the boot up time. Just because the Red is a great camera in so many other ways doesn't mean the current start time of the camera isn't a very annoying and recurring problem on set or location. I'm very excited that Red has solved this problem with the Epic and Scarlet.

[Harry Clark]

Leave Werner alone... he's allowed his opinion!
Cheers,
Harry

[Sanjin Jukic]

Werner Herzog is an old Bavarian film guy and an excellent director who mostly shot his films with ARRI (Bavarian) cameras.

But unfortunately and probably he didn't meet a rental who would provide him a hot swap device like a BeBob Rouge (http://www.bebob-rouge.com/?sec=channel) then he could shoot using R1 without booting for days.

Also Werner didn't complain about the picture quality he has got from RED1 and that's the most important for him or for anybody else...

[Ryan S]

I am curious as to what he'd think of something like the D20/21...is he against shooting digital altogether, or is it a specific issues with the Red One, like the boot time?

[Brandon Kraemer]

Herzog has a long history of making films on his own terms, I do not believe his comments are based on a fear of change or keeping up with technology and therefore his revenue stream. He has always and will continue to make films on his own terms.

It sounds like his comments were born out of frustrations experienced on set. To speculate on if his crew was lacking in experience, or if the process was untested, or maybe just a bad firmware build... is just that, speculation. Clearly he gave it a try, he shot a whole film with it, so I don't buy the argument he is afraid of change. Is he a completely dedicated artist, and possibly intolerant of technology that gets in the way of the film making process... yes, I'm sure his threshold for technical issues is low.

I think we've all read numerous posts on here about rebooting issues, long reboot times, error messages, corrupt media from CF cards, problems that crop up as new builds are introduced and components are swapped in and out by support like audio boards and drive cables. It's the nature of the beast, to deny that these issues haven't existed is farce. That doesn't make this camera a poor tool in the least, but it's a work in progress and I don't think that is for everyone or every situation.

Maybe Werner should have considered his words a bit more carefully... but I don't think you can challenge his perspective on his experiences unless you were on set with him. He is entitled to his opinion on how a tool performed on his set. His assistant camera operators comments do seem silly, but also borne from frustration. It would be great to take comments like these at face value and move on. Throwing Herzog under the bus is unnecessary just because your a fan of this camera. Just my opinion.

-bk

[Kobe Van Steenberghe]

We've been shooting over a year and a half with the red one and the boot issue was only annoying the first shoots. We learned to adopt very fast and our AC's know now when to change batteries (during a new lightning setup; when the director goes and talk with the actors, ...). A good AC with knowledge of the startup time knows how to handle it.

Change the battery and after like 20 seconds the clients monitor shows the image again (even though the camera is still starting up). Never got a complaint.

If you choose your moment right nobody notices the bootup time.
If you wait untill the camera goes dead (mid-shot), well that's something else.

to bad Herzog probably didn't have an AC that anticipated the 'problem'.

[Sanjin Jukic]

We've been shooting over a year and a half with the red one and the boot issue was only annoying the first shoots. We learned to adopt very fast and our AC's know now when to change batteries (during a new lightning setup; when the director goes and talk with the actors, ...). A good AC with knowledge of the startup time knows how to handle it.

Change the battery and after like 20 seconds the clients monitor shows the image again (even though the camera is still starting up). Never got a complaint.

If you choose your moment right nobody notices the bootup time.
If you wait untill the camera goes dead (mid-shot), well that's something else.

to bad Herzog probably didn't have an AC that anticipated the 'problem'.

Again BeBob Rouge (http://www.bebob-rouge.com/?sec=channel) is a way to go with RED1 if you need not so often booting waste of time...

[Stephen Williams]

If you choose your moment right nobody notices the bootup time.
.

Hi,

Unfortunately RED cameras have been known to reboot themselves especially with recent firmware installed, not forgetting of course the no of bad battery plates that left the factory.

Stephen

[Jon B.]

We're all entitled to our opinion :), not just Werner.

[Harry Clark]

"our"
H.

Ha! Glad you did not flame me... ;)

[Anson Fogel]

As with other posters, I have to make a balanced argument for Mr. Herzog's substance - he has done a lot for all of us as an artist, pushing the boundaries of art especially in verite. Put his concerns in context - his art often depends on filming run and gun in the real sense of the phrase, and he is accustomed to tools that support that as part of their core design. Compare an older version R1 to other classic tools for the genre...

Let's be objective here, the R1 is not a great run and gun tool - yes, I do it, yes, there are ways - but the boot time is a killer at times no matter what workarounds are used, especially when filming doc. The onboard audio interface, the form factor, the battery life - come on, its not a great run and gun tool! Red has obviously digested this for the next round of cameras. I carry a 5d or EX alongside red for all these reasons, albeit under protest.

His tone and delivery is in keeping with his character - impassioned and hyperbolic. But its not hard to see how he would reach the conclusion. Criticize his delivery and hyperbole, but not the core argument. His core argument is accurate for the tool in the hands of non hardcore red folks.

[Matt Uhry]

Big Kids hot swap and pack enough Lithium to burn all day.

Herzog is one of my heroes, he can say or do what he wants, in my eyes he's won that right a thousand times over. I just wish his AC / DIT had known how to use the camera in a professional manner.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Oliver Peters]

Just as an FYI - Herzog does have a point-of-comparison. He shot his "Encounters at the End of the World" documentary with Sony XDCAM.

http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/encounters-at-the-end-of-the-world/

- Oliver

[Peter Strietmann]

Sorry - I need to defend one of my idols here :-)

Herzog is not a fool. He is a genius and one of the ballsiest and most creative filmmakers around.

OK, I was wrong. He is not a fool. He is really smart.

[Eren Ozkural]

Okay, aside from the factual error in his statement (4 1/2 minutes boot time) I totally understand Herzog. I love the RED almost beyond reason but it's just a tool...and far from perfect.

Herzog also has a career that's littered with classic film making..and his recent output is still great as anywone who likes their Nic Cage with a side of crazy will attest.

Let's face it. The RED One needs to be more stable. Needs to boot up lightning quick. It needs more power options. We can't deny any of this....and that's why I can't wait for DSMC. All of this is coming and much, much more!

RED knew nothing when they were making their first camera. The fact that it's as good as it eventually turned out to be is almost miraculous.

RED know something about building cameras now and Scarlet/Epic will be the fruit of their labour.

Tomorrow? RED just might be dangerous ;)

[Kobe Van Steenberghe]

Hi,

Unfortunately RED cameras have been known to reboot themselves especially with recent firmware installed, not forgetting of course the no of bad battery plates that left the factory.

Stephen

Hi Stephen,

We always extensevely test when a new firmware is put on the camera and I must say we only had a problem once (when in playback, the camera jammed and rebooted) so we stopped using the playback (there was no issue with recording). The next day the camera was on the previous build.

Never had a problem with the battery plates, but have read about it.

Seems we use a really 'nice' camera ;-)

The red one has it's weaker points, but hey, if you learn to deal with them it's just a great piece of equipement. A good AC/DIT can make so much difference.

kind regards

[Marc Berger]

The 4 1/2 min statement about booting time seems to be a "feeling" not a real experience. Sometimes it feels like 10 minutes, depends the circumstances. Sometimes even the fastest autofocus is not fast enough. Werner Herzog is a director. He´s responsability is to choose the crew and the tools with he can achieve his style of working and the wanted look. He´s in my opinion a very open minded Director and ready to take every chance for experiments if it helps his films. I just think about some scenes from Nosferatu he shot in S-8 to get the right look. R1 can be light, smooth, always ready or just a heavy brick. Depends how much you love to work with it. If somebody don´t like the tool he´s working with, he better change it. In fact its very simple.

Marc

[JonathanF]

I have tried to stay out of these threads and not contribute to the general white noise level on reduser, but reading this particular thread today really pissed me off so I'm putting the dogs out...

I can't believe the gall of some users here, insulting a greatly respected DGA member. A man who is both highly influential, and arguably one of filmmaking's modern day living legends. He's directed over 50 films and written nearly that number for f*&% sake.

This is one of the things that makes me want to not log into RedUser some days, a bunch of industry newcommers and wanna be's bad mouthing icons of our profession.

Herzog is a man of great dedication, passion and impeccable integrity.

To me it's not only myopic to insult a man of his standing and accomplishment, but foolish. There are many who silently agree with many of the points Werner made but quietly reveal their concerns in private with those who can do something about it. While he could have been more diplomatic, that's not his style and Werner has always been a forthright if not downright blunt character (to his credit). He was asked a forthright question and he gave an honest answer that reflected his personal experience.

Given Werner's contributions to the profession and his lifetime of passionate work, he deserves a little more respect than he got here on Reduser.

How about we take a break from the kool-aid teat for a couple minutes and regain some perspective?

While frustration may have colored Herzog's experience and comments, people accustomed to working with high precision camera systems like Panavision, Aaton and Arri largely feel the R1 lacks the beautiful precision of those camera systems. This is no secret.

A brand new Arricam Lite costs upwards of $200,000 fitted out, not $17000, there are going to be quality differences, get over it. You have to acknowledge this or you're simply not being honest.

I grew up with those camera systems and I am the first one to agree that the Arri cameras are simply stunning in terms of their precision. I love using them, the ergonomics are fantastic and they are simply fun to use. Like driving a brand new 911.

We're talking about insanely obsessive German craftsmanship. A modern Arri camera is like a finely crafted handmade swiss watch, just far more complicated. Compared the the digital bludgeon of the RedOne it's a masterpiece of optical and mechanical engineering. One look at their shutter and optical viewfinder assemblies should quiet the disbelievers.

But as the song goes, 'the times, they are a changin'. We work in an era when we will very likely see an end to the use of film in our profession for all but the most specialized of productions, so the days of these beautiful mechanical cameras is surely numbered. Some of are saddened by this as much as the prospect of an improved all digital workflow excites us.

But the simple fact: The RedOne has issues.

Many of us recognize these issues and work with or around them because we are consciously making a personal investment in a technology we believe in.

Arri is a company with 90 years of history and more than 1200 employees worldwide. Arri has produced countless camera models throughout it's history and earned an astonishing 13 Technical Achievement Awards from the Academy.

The R1 is the first camera produced by a very new, very small company. The camera itself is an amazing accomplishment, and for a 1st camera they have every right to be exceedingly proud of what they have accomplished. They have pulled of an amazing David over Goliath coup in an industry dominated by giants like Arri and are also deserving of respect and admiration for that accomplishment.

I myself enjoy working with the camera. It's well suited to a lot of what I do, but not so suited to some things. This is the case with all camera systems. Horses for courses.

Herzog had a different R1 experience. He has a right to his opinion.

Given his history, he deserves better than to be bad mouthed by people who don't deserve to shine his shoes. This is a small industry and people should exercise a bit more civility when they comment on others so well respected in the profession.

Rant over

[Sanjin Jukic]

But the simple fact: The RedOne has issues.

Hi JonathanF,

RED doesn't make you more issues than any other digital acquisition camera system if you know how to use it...

You can't compare for example use of a film camera with any digital camera because there are totally different acquisition formats, workflows, areas or fields..whatever...

Just because no any today's movie director actually can say anything more than to ask directly to contact ME what he/she would need to get from RED1 cine digital acquisition system...full stop.

Also of course that I'm available for consulting and you can find that contact below in the signature.

[JonathanF]

Hi JonathanF,

RED doesn't make you more issues than any other digital acquisition camera system if you know how to use it...

You can't compare for example use of a film camera with any digital camera because there are totally different acquisition formats, workflows, areas or fields..whatever...

Just because no any today's movie director actually can say anything more than to ask me what he/she would need to get from RED1 cine digital acquisition system...full stop.

Sanjin,

I'm short on sleep today so I'm not in a very sporting mood, I'll beg forgiveness later but I'm not in that mindset presently so I'm going to disregard my own advice on civility.

It should be a strong warning to a manufacturer when users are consciously not using advertised features of a camera because the use of such features increases their product's instability.

Burn rate on many feature films is measured in tens of thousands of dollars per hour. Time is money. When a production loses time a Director has to start making compromises to stay on schedule or go over budget.

Werner does not deliver films over budget. This is a point of near obsession for him. Because of that ANY technical issue with a camera system is a big problem.

I have worked with numerous digital acquisition systems that do not exhibit this behavior. Granted, they did not cost $17k. Your comparison of digital to film is not relevant. The issue here is stability of use with an advertised featureset.

I hate to use my resume as a bludgeon but I've been making major motion pictures for 17 years and have nearly that number under my belt. I have used numerous camera systems (both film and digital) and the Red, despite my love for it, is not the most stable in the bunch.

J

[Ian Laurie]

Sanjin, your last sentence was probably some of the worst grammar I have had the pleasure of trying to decipher...hahaha I have no idea what you said.

As for Mr. Herzog... Although he may be a great and brilliant director, that does not mean he is always right. I may be a new comer, but that does not make my view point less valid. He may be old school but that doesn't mean he is infallible. Overall a disasterous thread with people over reacting on both sides of the arguement. Much like Mr. Herzog's 4 1/2 minute remark, a bit of over statement for one mans opinion. Afterall, though he may have more experience than me as a whole, I may have more experience than him with the Red. So does that make my opinion on the Red MORE valid than his? :ohmy:

To be honest I really don't give a crap what anyone else thinks. I like it. The films that I have worked on with it love it.

now you may proceed to ridicule me and say that i have delusions of grandeur ( I prefer to think of them as goals), but before you do, keep in mind that I am not comparing talent, I am simply implying that my experience with ONE camera may be more valid than his experience with the SAME camera.

Let the verbal abuse begin!

[Sanjin Jukic]

Sanjin, your last sentence was probably some of the worst grammar I have had the pleasure of trying to decipher...hahaha I have no idea what you said.



Ian,

thanks for your comment but I'm mostly drunk when writing to the forum and

that it would consists a sort of grammar error nonsense that also I like so much.

But don't forget that I'm thinking ALWAYS pretty good...in a way that has no any mistakes with idea(s)....

Also nobodys's perfect.

[Ian Laurie]

Hahahaha no offence meant, Sanjin, I just thought it was funny that you very clearly had something to say, but I have no idea what it was. Almost like being talked at in a foreign language. thought this was relevant to the current convo though:

"Q: You're not a major fan of technology, but what impact do you think new media is ultimately going to have on traditional filmmaking? "

In my experience so far, if you don't love tech, The Red is going to kill you. Maybe this explains Werner's Frustration.

[peter roehsler]

In the interview Mr. Herzog stated that he does not own a cellphone. Could it be that he is slightly biased in regard to certain new technologies?

But seriously: as said before, he has contributed his share to cinematic art and he is entitled to his opinion. While camera downtime has obviously pissed him off, there must have been some decision for using RED cameras in the preparation of his shoot. I very much doubt that he was forced to use this camera, the way he seems to be in control of his work. So there must have been something he liked.

Why the the rental house or the 1st AC on the shoot did not provide a solution for this particular problem in prep work or at least after the first time it had bothered the director, remains a mystery to me.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Ian,


I do not say any complicated things at all and anyway

it could be understandable by the content that is involved around it...


Also you can't say that you can understand Shakespeare always...

... then is more about translating English into predicate logic...

...as more common user-speaker do it daily... it's a pity...

[Stephen Williams]

Hi Stephen,

Seems we use a really 'nice' camera ;-)

kind regards

Cameras do vary, this is an issue.

[Sanjin Jukic]

In the interview Mr. Herzog stated that he does not own a cellphone. Could it be that he is slightly biased in regard to certain new technologies?

But seriously: as said before, he has contributed his share to cinematic art and he is entitled to his opinion. While camera downtime has obviously pissed him off, there must have been some decision for using RED cameras in the preparation of his shoot. I very much doubt that he was forced to use this camera, the way he seems to be in control of his work. So there must have been something he liked.

Why the the rental house or the 1st AC on the shoot did not provide a solution for this particular problem in prep work or at least after the first time it had bothered the director, remains a mystery to me.

Peter,

if you are in Vienna/Wien right now you should finally pass my "lodge" or "kitchen" tomorrow as you've said it before...

[Meryem Ersoz]

His tone and delivery is in keeping with his character - impassioned and hyperbolic.

What Anson said...

Besides, I can relate to the 4-1/2 minute boot time. One of my two cameras, when it is running hot, takes a heckuva lot longer to boot than that. The other one is solid, usually no issues. Who knows what kind of camera he used? The RED ONE hasn't been perfectly consistent. The trade-off of having it right now, right away, has been managing these inconsistencies in return for the camera's ongoing enhancements and pretty, pretty pictures. We deal with that. So what if Herzog isn't interested in new technologies? He doesn't actually need them, to get his pictures made.

The guy is a freaking genius. Freaking. genius. He is a giant.

The cool thing about JJ, unlike the rest of us - when he gets this kind of feedback from guys of Herzog's stature - he doesn't complain, he just builds a better camera, shoots us free firmware upgrades, listens and takes it all in, etc., etc.

I, for one, am glad that he feels challenged, instead of petty or mad.

[JohnF]

You can't compare for example use of a film camera with any digital camera because there are totally different acquisition formats, workflows, areas or fields..whatever...


Yes one can compare film with digital cameras. They are just cameras plain and simple - an instrument for recording the world around us. There is far more to a camera than just the method of recording focussed light.

The ergonomics and operational design of a number of digital cameras is IMO often hopeless and worthy of significant criticism. It's like the lessons learnt over the 100years of building cameras has been forgotten in the transition to the digital age. Often features that one, as a photographer, needs immediately to hand are either buried in a menu or in a bizarrely located switch. Eating valuable time that can lead to one missing a shot.

Ever missed a shot because of poor design not for being a poor photographer or film maker? It is the most frustrating of events especially when you know that it was the design of the device that let you down not just a case of "a bad workman blames his tools". (the lack of a standby on many cameras is a source of much puzzlement to me - such an obvious requirement not being met)

Being a photographer is often about capturing moments and by definition moments are short lived. A camera needs the ability to be fast to use and that means good well thought out design.

This criticism applies to the lowest to the highest end cameras.

Red have been an inspiration in the transition to the digital age but their cameras are not without flaws. But thanks to the company's ethos they listen to feedback which leads to the improvement of their cameras and product range. Shouting down or dismissing such feedback, especially from such an experienced film maker, as we've seen on this thread only acts to impede the flow of information that leads to the very improvement we all, no doubt, want.

All the best

JohnF

[Dylan Macleod, CSC]

Herzog is a genius.
I blame the assistant.
I make sure the camera never reboots when I am working with a director who is new to RED.
The re-boot was operator error. Get a hot swap! You're working with Werner Herzog dammit! ;-)

[Jeremy Neish]

Never heard of him or any of his films.

Guess I'm more of a computer geek than film geek. And I think I'm perfectly happy with that knowledge. And, yeah maybe he should just buy a hot swap battery kit, problem solved.

[Peter Strietmann]

Some of the hardest times in my life have come when I find that someone I have held in high regard is only human and capable of making mistakes. It is certainly no crime but the long term ramifications can be devastating.

[rod bradley]

Well put tilHavis.

Werner Herzog is obviously intense. He's obvious a bit of an over the top guy. After all he made Aguirre & Fritzcaraldo. And managed to work with Klaus Kinski, who probably made Werner seem almost low key. He's obviously a genius filmmaker. And every genius can be an idiot or misinformed. And which of us has not mispoken or exaggerated out of frustration. And some of us are probably more sensitive to his frustration than we need be. His job is to make films. Like any craftsman are artist he wants tools that are rock solid.

Anyway, I often see a certain erosion of civility here among perfectly honorable people -- keeping passion civil is a tricky business it seems. Maybe the bootup time for civility can be improved.


As was rightly pointed out JJ takes all this and makes it better.

[JonathanF]

but I'm mostly drunk when writing to the forum

This explains an awful lot. Maybe I will find a use for the ignore feature.

[Dean Bull]

Did anyone else read the whole interview? He has some really cool insights as a director.

[D Fuller]

Just another example of an old school film maker who is afraid of change...
the camera takes 90 seconds... not 4 1/2 min...

Im wondering if he had a bad DIT onset which made his experience less than perfect.

These guys who know nothing about digital and are unwilling to learn, simply fear it. they feel as if their lively hood is getting pushed aside and they cant keep up with the new tech..

Gee, in 90 seconds Tyson Gay could be almost a kilometer away. And how many of you have hit the power button when you intended to hit the record button for a take? And what did you say then? I couldn't re-print what I said.

Being frustrated by one of the weak points of the camera doesn't make one afraid of technology, it constitutes legitimate product feedback. If there was nothing wrong with the RED ONE, Jim & Company wouldn't be working so hard on the Epic.

I love the RED ONE too. It's my baby, but it's got a few warts.

[Jay A. Kelley]

I love RED, but it has issues.. I CHOOSE to work around these for a number of reasons, but also wait for improvements from Epic and Scarlet.

As Jim as said, the next two cameras cannot follow the path of RED, the must come out of the gate solid, and ready. (This will take some time for those of you hoping to see them real soon).

Other professionals may choose NOT to work around RED'S limitations. I completely respect that choice, and I would certainly not insult or put down ANY professional because they made this choice.

I do not know this director, but I can tell he has quite a history and is a respected artist. He has made his opinions, and choices known.. I completely respect that.

Digital may be our future, but it's NOT our present. At present Digital and Film must share the stage. It will be this way for a few years yet.

Please, let's keep our debate to the equipment, and not insult or put down those that have different viewpoints, regardless of how strong they may be.

I would also like to add that the director's comments were in an interview, NOT a post for this forum.. So it's not like he came here and insulted the camera, he was somewhere else sharing his opinion.

That's just fine.

Some of you may think you are protecting RED and Jim.. You're not. Jim's a pro, and he knows as well as anyone that not everybody will want to use his camera. He's fine with that, he'll just focus on those that do, or improve his cameras in the hopes of winning more people over.

enough said by me

Jay

[Justin McAleece]

I know the guys who worked on that movie and they were legit guys but there were some issues with the bad battery contacts even though they swapped out some battery plates (which we have probably all encountered). That was the source of many of the issues and I actually had to personally deal with some of the issues on that exact camera on the next movie we worked on with it. We had a very distinguished DP on that one and he didn't think much of the RED in a lot of cases either. He was an operator on a lot of the big ones and he wanted Panavision and nothing but. He would probably not choose RED any time soon but by the end of production we had fixed a lot of the issues to his liking and the system overall was pretty decent for him. I was not at the premiere for "My Son" but I know it was not an entirely lovable movie and the conditions and situations found while shooting were eccentric to say the least. I respect Herzog incredibly and was surprised to hear his comments because the Premiere at Cannes was while we were shooting another film and the Producer was away and no one ever mentioned anything about how he was RED bashing. I know he is an excitable guy so maybe the boot time ruined it for him and the interviewer just caught him on a bad day.

[I Bloom]

Often times while I'm waiting for a Red camera to boot my bandit heart cries out with distant longing "Die Schnee... die schnee."

If you got that you are a true Herzog fan.

IBloom

[Rick Darge]

Sanjin 4 life

I cracked up so hard when you said you are mostly drunk when posting to the forums. :beer:

[Peter Matthes]

These shirts are available to all Red users.

http://rlv.zcache.com/i_heart_werner_herzog_tshirt-p235635280646935433qw9y_400.jpg

[Jannard]

RED is an alternative to film... some of the best in the industry think it is better than an alternative. But RED is not perfect (yet). The R1 does some things that could bug a film shooter. Startup time is either an issue or not depending on your attitude. We have fixed that going forward. You have to keep exposure "between the goal posts". The posts are getting wider as we move forward. There are some quirks... no question. But there are also some advantages... like instant feedback (and striking of sets), no hair in the gate, media that fits in your hat and no grain. My bet is that we can fix our issues faster than film cameras can fix theirs...

Jim

[Tom Lowe]

Wow some people here disrespecting Werner Herzog because he offered an opinion on R1? What an embarrassment. Instead of lashing out, try reading what he's saying with a clear mind.

The man is a fucking legend.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Just another example of an old school film maker who is afraid of change...
the camera takes 90 seconds... not 4 1/2 min...

Im wondering if he had a bad DIT onset which made his experience less than perfect.

These guys who know nothing about digital and are unwilling to learn, simply fear it. they feel as if their lively hood is getting pushed aside and they cant keep up with the new tech..

I would say that's a gross mischaracterization of W. Hertzog. IMO he's constantly evolving and pushing cinema. If he doesn't like the RED he doesn't like the REDOne. Maybe he'll like Epic more. People have preferences. The world revolves.

I can't in a million years see Hertzog's livelihood get pushed aside by digital. If he wanted to shoot a film on Polaroid he could probably persuade them to restart the factory.

Isn't it more true that many here on these forums are far more vulnerable to negative RED press than Hertzog ever will be to digital cinema?

[Jannard]

Being disrespectful to the person is different than discussing the merits of the opinion. We have room for the latter and not the former.

Jim

[Eric Ulbrich]

Im with Tom. The man is a legened...

[Martin Weiss]

The one point I take issue with is Herzog (whom I have lots of respect for) complaining about the boot-up time. How I read this statement is "we have chosen the wrong tool for the project". When I do run-and-gun and don't have unlimited battery supply, I chose a different camera than R1. As Sanjin pointed out in a more sober state, there are double-plate battery options (which would also have resolved the battery-connection problem.)

As to mechanics; I learned my trade amongst 16mm and 35mm cameras (loved the beasty Superamerica best), and I do not understand how the R1 can be perceived as having flimsy mechanics. After all, there hardly are any mechanics - it is mostly electronics. The PL mount is lovable for its' field adjustable settings.

One may complain about the connectors, but there are industry-proven workarounds for that, which should be standard issue at any rental house.