Some new changes...

[Jannard]

In keeping with our philosophy (get used to it)... several things have changed.

Weight of the camera body is now an even 10 pounds. After changes to the sensor board cooling system (different than we had 2 weeks ago), and beefing up the body to go head to head with a Sherman tank... the body has bulked up. No steroids used, however. This is now one tight bomb.

As we have stated, about a hundred times, all features will not be enabled. This has now become our plan. We figure that no matter how high the anticipation, the extreme excitement can wear off after a bit of time. We have a fix for that. Just about the time you get used to the camera, Santa will drop by your email address and leave a package that makes your camera "new again". We will continue this plan to keep you plenty excited for a much longer period of time. And when you are fully capable to use all you have, we will surprise you.

We have discontinued the Premium Production Pack rail system due to lack of interest and/or everyone wanting to substitute parts. The only system you can buy is the Base Production Pack, then add parts and pieces as you need them. The price of the Base Package has not changed, although it is severly under-priced. We will honor our commitment.

More news to follow.

Jim

[Álex Montoya]

the body has bulked up. No steroids used, however.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/1434_1188543668.jpg

[Poi Boy]

far frickin out...I can hardly wait. Jim did you hear IBC has been cancelled ? no need to fly over and delay.
Aloha
-A

[Unwounded]

Not the Premium production package........:sad: ......but it was soooo sweet.

[Don King]

We have discontinued the Premium Production Pack rail system due to lack of interest

I'm sorry. My idea is exactly on opposite. The most part would be interested on the Premium Production Pack.

[Jack Wester]

I'm sorry. My idea is exactly on opposite. The most part would be interested on the Premium Production Pack.

Ditto

[Mr. Paul White]

Same idea here.

[Darwin]

When can we expect a full price list of all the options?

[Paolo Tinari]

Weight of the camera body is now an even 10 pounds.


I think i'm gonna change my crane...

[Eric MacIver]

I had planned on purchasing a Premium Production Pack for every one of our cameras. Do you know if the same parts were pieced together now, if it would cost the same?

[Roberto B]

I had planned on purchasing a Premium Production Pack for every one of our cameras. Do you know if the same parts were pieced together now, if it would cost the same?

good question.. ehehehehe why do you think the things are changing?.. :)

[Jason Francois]

Good news, bad...uh, not really bad news. I was really diggin' the premium package since I have two hands. :)

This is getting exciting.

j.

[Jannard]

I had planned on purchasing a Premium Production Pack for every one of our cameras. Do you know if the same parts were pieced together now, if it would cost the same?

Don't know that yet... we under-estimated some of the costs, have made improvements in many of the parts and are trying to put a new "final" price list together.

I'd recommend buying the Base Package and building from there. The Base is a complete bargain.

Jim

[Mark Thorpe]

Weight of the camera body is now an even 10 pounds. I'm gonna need an upgrade, to the next gauge of whalebone corset! My poor back......

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I'll be a kid in a candy store tomorrow Jim. I have been grinning like an idiot all day today, I'll probably be PeeWee Herman by tomorrow.

[Darwin]

I can only speak for myself.... Buy what you need...nothing more I like the direction this is going!

[Ace]

This is the fucking future of business! You saw it here first.

[Simon Smith]

I had planned on purchasing a Premium Production Pack for every one of our cameras. Do you know if the same parts were pieced together now, if it would cost the same?

It doesn't seem so. Wrong move.

[Jannard]

It doesn't seem so. Wrong move.

I think when you see what has changed, you will change your mind. Just my opinion.

Jim

[Matt Setnes]

is it possible to make a Red bed set? I would be really interested :whistling:

[Brook Willard]

I think when you see what has changed, you will change your mind. Just my opinion.

Jim

Heheh... so in a few hours? :)

[Craig Harding]

We were intending to buy the premium production pack - as well as both zoom lenses, the B4 adaptor, and the usual combo of power pack, 2 x drives, CF adapter etc. But as our delivery is about 6 months away we'd only actually ordered the camera body for now. I suspect this is a common behaviour.

[Don King]

I think when you see what has changed, you will change your mind. Just my opinion.

Jim

I believe he's referring the absence of the Premium Production Pack. Nothing less, nothing more.

[Jack Wester]

If the premium package can be assembled from individual items, this is a price raise in discuise.

I don't like the idea of price changes a few months after order confirmation. Changing your pricelist usually affects new orders, not old ones.

And if this simply is a change in pricing, and if you decide to do it retroactivly, at least give us the option to accept the price raise without forcing us make nitty gritty individual parts picking.

I'm willing to receive a new order confirmation with a higher price as an act of goodwill, but I don't want to spend time on trying to foresee in detail what parts I will and will not need.

[Alexander Nikishin]

No premium pack......:sad:

[Mike Zinner]

I just love the attitude to keep pushing out new features. I mean, e.g. look at Panasonic. They would not even listen to customers and implement a menu switch for rotating the recording 180° on the HVX for 35mm adapters. And once the cam was out, no chance to ever get that implemented. Not so on the RED One...

I also had the plan to get the Basic Production Bundle from the beginning and then just add the components I really need. I mean, what would I need a 2nd grip handle for if I have to use my left hand to pull the focus. And I need the 15mm rod adapter.

[Andrew Benz]

No premium pack......:sad:

Same here...:umm:

[Sanjin Jukic]

I was for the "Basic Production Pack" from the beginning.
And I can understand the situation now.
"Weight of the camera body is now an even 10 pounds"(Quote>>Jim)
and there is no need to make it all the kit even more heavy.

[Roberto B]

you're a must sanjin.. lol i've been laughing so hard :) my stomache aches.. :) :)

[Roberto B]

:sad: premium production pack.. :bye2:

:help:

[Eric MacIver]

Don't know that yet... we under-estimated some of the costs, have made improvements in many of the parts and are trying to put a new "final" price list together.

I'd recommend buying the Base Package and building from there. The Base is a complete bargain.

Jim

Thanks. I'll wait for the final list for any judgment. I mean, I do have a $2500 equipment credit, so I can't complain too much :) (other than asking for a 1.9 wide angle! ;) )

[Roberto B]

yeah.. since you're in hollywood, you can't complain too much.. imagine us outside.. :watsup: go figure!

[Jan Reiff]

dear red team,

how will orders with the premium pack be handled now?
you ship the basic pack and change the order automatically in prize?

but what´s up when i need more than the basics?

what is the way to order and correct my order? via email to the support crew?

[Martin Drew]

We have discontinued the Premium Production Pack rail system due to lack of interest and/or everyone wanting to substitute parts. The only system you can buy is the Base Production Pack, then add parts and pieces as you need them. The price of the Base Package has not changed, although it is severly under-priced. We will honor our commitment.


I thought all the talk on the forum seemed to be suggesting that the PPP was popular!!!

Very difficult to give an objective reaction about this news without knowing what the options and prices of parts are. Will we see the parts + get a price list at IBC?

M

[Roberto B]

dear red team,

how will orders with the premium pack be handled now?
you ship the basic pack and change the order automatically in prize?

we'd also like to know..

edit
if they have the premium production pack (and i do not see any reason why not), i wish i could be one of them, then..

[Evin Grant]

After changes to the sensor board cooling system (different than we had 2 weeks ago)
Jim

Doe's this mean I can go remake Lawrence of Arabia in 125º direct sunlight?
The sun's anvil is no match for Red... is it?

[Rob Worth]

I had planned on the Premium Production Pack too. I just hadn't ordered it yet.

Bobble

[Emmanuel Cambier]

If the premium package can be assembled from individual items, this is a price raise in discuise.

I don't like the idea of price changes a few months after order confirmation. Changing your pricelist usually affects new orders, not old ones.

And if this simply is a change in pricing, and if you decide to do it retroactivly, at least give us the option to accept the price raise without forcing us make nitty gritty individual parts picking.

I'm willing to receive a new order confirmation with a higher price as an act of goodwill, but I don't want to spend time on trying to foresee in detail what parts I will and will not need.

Hey, I'm sorry but some people need to think twice before complaining the way they do in this thread.:angry03:

I know Jim is a big Boy and doesn't need me to defend him, but I just can't let pass this kind of accusations like it's a normal thing on a board like this.

Hey jack seriously… Do you think the guys at Red need this kind of comments after all the hard work they've put up to offer us such a bargain of a camera.
I think it's time you relax a bit and do a reality check. When was the last time you got a chance to have such a close look at the development of such an extaordinary product.
Why don't you go and chat with sony or panasonic or arri's executives.
If you ain't happy or feel uncertain about this company's honnesty, by all means get your money back and stop bringing such accusations to this otherwise friendly and sincere board.

I can't believe I didn't even call you names:huh:

[Mardi_Gras]

I had planned on the Premium Production Pack too. I just hadn't ordered it yet.

Bobble

Same here and with lots of rez holders that I know. Maybe Jim and the gang should consider leaving the Premium pack open for Rez holders as an option and see how many of us snaps 'em up... just a thought.

[Karl H]

I was also going to buy the PPP, however I do understand that some of these prices have been a guesstimate. Jim admitted that they took an educated guess the camera would be $17,500 back at Nab 2006 - so much has changed that they might have discovered they were losing too much money on the PPP - to name just one item.

In my eyes that's ok, I always wondered how they could work out the cost of these things with 100% certainty when they were still in development. Sure they could have announced prices only tomorrow when everything is done, but then people would have complained that they couldnt budget unless they knew what everything would have cost.... there were bound be some revsions.

I think we've done rather well if that's the only item thats has been underpriced. The Red One itself has had its specs go up, but no price increase there.

I'd like to see the PPP back in there, but if it's a higher cost then so be it. I'm just lazy and cant be arsed to order all the parts individualy.

[Emanuel A.]

I had planned on the Premium Production Pack too. I just hadn't ordered it yet.

Bobble


Same here and with lots of rez holders that I know. Maybe Jim and the gang should consider leaving the Premium pack open for Rez holders as an option and see how many of us snaps 'em up... just a thought.

More than a real option, this would be a true fair offer.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Not even Peter Jackson was in a need of Premium Production Pack and he did "Crossing the Line". Basic is enough for the beginning.
Have a look at the picture below.

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/Jackson_CTL1.jpg

[Steven Parker]

I think when you see what has changed, you will change your mind. Just my opinion.

Jim

Now see, this makes me think the Production Packs have merged and become something a little more than "Basic plus parts"...

I was planning on a premium pack; the basic pack is too thin, the premium a little bit overkill... I bet Spain and Chicago had some influence on this:shiftyph34r:

[Tim Lüdin]

I was also going for the ppp. I always liked the handles, they kinda protected the camera and you could put a thousand things on them.

I'm sure the new rig will also be fine. The RED team won't make their cam worse. As long as you can mount a lot of stuff on it, everything will be cool.

I'm sure we will all be surprised, when we see the new version.

Ah yeah, and congrats for this big achivement today. The cams are leaving the house. RED team I salut you.

Cheers

Tim

[Hrvoje Simic]

Also sorry about the PPP.
(not about Point to Point Protocol or Pakistan Peoples Party)

But...something tells me we're not loosing anything. Just recombining.

[Gordon Prince]

In fact, there's a poll running and asking the Premium Production Pack:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4070

[Eric Maran]

I definitely think as larger productions (especially action films) adopt the Red, the premium production pack is gonna come in really handy.

[Peter Karlsson]

I thought about ordering the prem pack aswell.. I haven´t ordered any accesories yet, since I think much will change until my camera ships, so when my camera is ready, I'll place an order for the xtra gear. So please dont get rid of the prem pack! It just looks too cool to be without..

[Adrian T.]

I also wanted to go for the premium production pack. Bummer! :bye2:

[Ken Willinger]

I haven´t ordered any accesories yet.

I think a lot of us with higher res numbers have waited on accessories because we are so far down the line...there was no reason to make decisions yet. My plan had also been for the PPP. I'd still like it.

[Greg M]

You guys had you chance to order the PPP...shame on you for not doing it.
Jim asked us to place our orders so he could gauge production. I ordered the PPP and placed a deposit...but it appears the majority of you who are complaining failed to send Jim an order as he requested, so he saw little demand.
As long as we can order the parts though, its really no big deal.

[Adam C Lubkin]

Why's everyone complaining when we haven't even seen the list of parts/prices yet? For all you know, you'll be able to piece together the equivalent of the premium pack for less $ than it's listed for.

[Miltos Pilalitos]

..but it appears the majority of you who are complaining failed to send Jim an order as he requested, so he saw little demand.

Since not everyone enjoys the same financial comfort in this forum you should realize that it would be much easier if we could place a preorder for the accessories without having to make a second deposit for them.

I too, was going for the Premium Production Pack but since my turn comes in January, i was waiting a little bit more.

[albert rudnicki]

I'm sorry. My idea is exactly on opposite. The most part would be interested on the Premium Production Pack.

Why not just wait and see
You may be getting the same for a lot less!
Patience
Cheers
Albert

[Craig Schober]

Hey, I'm sorry but some people need to think twice before complaining the way they do in this thread.:angry03:

I know Jim is a big Boy and doesn't need me to defend him, but I just can't let pass this kind of accusations like it's a normal thing on a board like this.

Hey jack seriously… Do you think the guys at Red need this kind of comments after all the hard work they've put up to offer us such a bargain of a camera.
I think it's time you relax a bit and do a reality check. When was the last time you got a chance to have such a close look at the development of such an extaordinary product.
Why don't you go and chat with sony or panasonic or arri's executives.
If you ain't happy or feel uncertain about this company's honnesty, by all means get your money back and stop bringing such accusations to this otherwise friendly and sincere board.

I can't believe I didn't even call you names:huh:
i don't see anything wrong with complaining about last minute changes. i think the red team would agree that this forum serves more as a sounding board for ideas and constructive criticism than a cheerleading squad for all of their decisions. honesty is a two way street. red has been straight with us so why shouldn't we let them know what our idea of fair is.

i planned on ordering the ppp but never pre-ordered because i'm expecting to be contacted by red very soon anyway. in the end, i believe many others also planned to purchase the ppp but didn't put in their orders for one reason or another. maybe it's our fault for not being more proactive but it seems that red underestimated costs of this item and couldn't justify their production run with the amount of pre-orders that were made for it. fair enough. i think the entire project development and ordering process was and still is a little confusing and that didn't give red an accurate depiction of demand for things like the ppp. i just hope things don't change for other accessories that i care much more about like the red drive or the lcd.

anyway, now people are coming forward to express their opinions and intentions for ordering so i hope it creates a more accurate picture for red to anticipate future production offers.

[John Wee]

YES ! to ala cart accesorries

[Don King]

Why not just wait and see
You may be getting the same for a lot less!
Patience
Cheers
Albert

Ah the youth! Sigh

Unfortunately, I have no more your age... My sweet sixteen are just memories... (with the due respect) :mail1:

[Steven-Marc C.]

Nobody wants to spend more, but if the accessories were generally underpriced, there is nothing much to be done about it except raising the price. Nobody wants Red to be losing money and put its business at risk. If that happened we would all be losers in the end. I think Jim's offer to keep the Basic Pack at the same price and offer the possibility to order extra parts as we need them is the best compromise we could hope for. This is not fan-boy talk, this is reason.

[Johnny Friday]

NOW THAT'S HONESTY!!!

....I'm all for Jannard and RED being up front and telling us they underestimated the cost/resale of the premium prod. pack. That's friggin honesty!! NOW TO BLAST them for it.....wow, that's some pelotas you got their! GRANDE in fact.

....seems like pure open development and Jim just being honest with the RED community. If that's the case and they underestimated their costs---I'm all for RED making a profit---I KNOW I WILL!!

...Great thread and keep em coming RED team. Can't say more about you guys making this new technology accessible for guys like me....and I DO want you to be profitable and keep the profits revolving back into the company to keep the new technology flowing----THANKS AGAIN!!

[garageman]

I have already placed a deposit on the premium production pack, so even though it is now discontinued, will my order for a premium production pack be fulfilled?

[S. Um]

Not even Peter Jackson was in a need of Premium Production Pack and he did "Crossing the Line". Basic is enough for the beginning.
Have a look at the picture below.

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/extras/Jackson_CTL1.jpg


Nice pictures. Everyone was poopoo-ing the LCD, but looks like even the pros use it.

[Champe Barton]

I can think of very few reasons to find fault with Jim or the rest of the Red team from the very beginning of their venture. For me, the loss of the PPP is a minor inconvenience in an otherwise nearly flawless plan. I've ordered the PPP but I'm sure Jim and the team will be fair and have figured a way to make us all happy. I'd like all the bells and whistles and if I need to buy them individually, so be it. The value I'm getting, even with a slight price increase, is so incredibly much better than any camera I've ever owned. For that, Jim, thank you. And congratulations to you and the entire Red Team for pulling off such an outstanding feat!

Champe

[REDHKSC]

In keeping with our philosophy (get used to it)... several things have changed.

Weight of the camera body is now an even 10 pounds. After changes to the sensor board cooling system (different than we had 2 weeks ago), and beefing up the body to go head to head with a Sherman tank... the body has bulked up. No steroids used, however. This is now one tight bomb.

As we have stated, about a hundred times, all features will not be enabled. This has now become our plan. We figure that no matter how high the anticipation, the extreme excitement can wear off after a bit of time. We have a fix for that. Just about the time you get used to the camera, Santa will drop by your email address and leave a package that makes your camera "new again". We will continue this plan to keep you plenty excited for a much longer period of time. And when you are fully capable to use all you have, we will surprise you.

We have discontinued the Premium Production Pack rail system due to lack of interest and/or everyone wanting to substitute parts. The only system you can buy is the Base Production Pack, then add parts and pieces as you need them. The price of the Base Package has not changed, although it is severly under-priced. We will honor our commitment.

More news to follow.

Jim

What wil be the " Penalty " from RED ?
Another 1000 USD for the 1st 1000 holders with the " Rs " ?

1.5 Billion people here in Greater CHINA have been watching RED's statements.

REDHKSC - HKG's SAR in CHINA

[Craig Meadows]

The RED ONE camera and company are dynamically evolving. Never in my 22 years in the business has any manufacturer been so open or solicited so much user feedback on initial development, progress, and delivery.

Every new product of any kind and it's accessories regularly go through suggested pricing fluctuations right up to delivery as they determine last minute material and manufacturing costs and profit projections. The only difference here is the very open and public discourse and revelations by the manufacturer.

RED accessory pricing is extremely fair, as is the camera of course. There is only a $1500 published difference between the standard and premium package, throw in the reservation holder discount and it's still a great deal any way you slice it in regards to what you getting for a 2K/4K system.

[Jaime Vallés]

Everyone will be able to have the Premium Production Pack. Just order the pieces individually. What's the big deal? This sounds like a great idea. A la carte is the way to go here. Get the Basic, plus any other bits you need for your own kit.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think when you see what has changed, you will change your mind. Just my opinion.

Jim knows best...

As long as all the parts are available to build and configure as we need, what matters? And this is coming from someone who planned to buy the premium package. Base package and add-ons, that's all good to me.

[Babu Kantamneni]

In keeping with our philosophy (get used to it)... several things have changed.

Weight of the camera body is now an even 10 pounds. After changes to the sensor board cooling system (different than we had 2 weeks ago), and beefing up the body to go head to head with a Sherman tank... the body has bulked up. No steroids used, however. This is now one tight bomb.

As we have stated, about a hundred times, all features will not be enabled. This has now become our plan. We figure that no matter how high the anticipation, the extreme excitement can wear off after a bit of time. We have a fix for that. Just about the time you get used to the camera, Santa will drop by your email address and leave a package that makes your camera "new again". We will continue this plan to keep you plenty excited for a much longer period of time. And when you are fully capable to use all you have, we will surprise you.

We have discontinued the Premium Production Pack rail system due to lack of interest and/or everyone wanting to substitute parts. The only system you can buy is the Base Production Pack, then add parts and pieces as you need them. The price of the Base Package has not changed, although it is severly under-priced. We will honor our commitment.

More news to follow.

Jim

We want premium package.I did not reserve because i thought I can wait till november shipment.Please premium please!.Everybody interested tell him..
babu

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Nice pictures. Everyone was poopoo-ing the LCD, but looks like even the pros use it.

In that shot with PJ, that's not the RED LCD.

[SamKam]

I have already placed a deposit on the premium production pack, so even though it is now discontinued, will my order for a premium production pack be fulfilled?

I'm in the same boat. Anyone know how this is going to be handled?

[Paul Wizikowski]

Hello reality. Its good to see you again.

While RED has nearly pulled off the impossible here, and I am continually impressed and excited when it comes to the RED One, I think we are seeing the compromise of reality on a deadline.

RED is great at spinning all their hardware/software realities into positive hype (the "joy" of upcoming and ongoing updates) or dismissing them as minor inconvienineces that the average person won't and shouldn't want (potential loss of 720 recording and its off speeds, all onboard Flash options potentially reduced to only CF, and the loss of the PPP now).

As Jim has said from day one, all things are subject to change, like it or lump it reality is that it has changed. I'm sure its just as annoying to him as it is me to not know what all I'm getting or how much its gonna cost or when I'm gonna get it for that matter. Ideals are great but reality is just that, its real.

Jim I can't wait to see what is going to ship, exactly, and what the new rail rig acessories are and how much they are going to be and when they will be available. Cant wait. But i will.

[Babu Kantamneni]

NOW THAT'S HONESTY!!!

....I'm all for Jannard and RED being up front and telling us they underestimated the cost/resale of the premium prod. pack. That's friggin honesty!! NOW TO BLAST them for it.....wow, that's some pelotas you got their! GRANDE in fact.

....seems like pure open development and Jim just being honest with the RED community. If that's the case and they underestimated their costs---I'm all for RED making a profit---I KNOW I WILL!!

...Great thread and keep em coming RED team. Can't say more about you guys making this new technology accessible for guys like me....and I DO want you to be profitable and keep the profits revolving back into the company to keep the new technology flowing----THANKS AGAIN!!
I see the point.I agree if the cost is higher and we can buy and put things together that is ok with me.
Delete the following!:angry01:
We want premium package.I did not reserve because i thought I can wait till november shipment.Please premium please!.Everybody interested tell him..
babu

[HD Hildebrand]

In that shot with PJ, that's not the RED LCD.

I think Jim mentioned something about that when (or just after) they were filming. Don't think the Red LCD was ready then.

[vanguy]

Here's the list of stuff in the premium package but not in the basic, far as I can tell.

RED RAIL MOUNT (3)
RED ROD SHORT (1)
RED ROD LONG (4)
RED RAIL HANDLE BRACKET
RED GRIP HANDLE (1)
RED SIDE HANDLE (4)
RED 15mm ROD ADAPTOR (Studio)
RED 15mm ROD ADAPTOR (Lightweight)

And maybe, depending what it is:
RED RAIL TOP PLATE

I'm sure they'll take the order, it's just a la carte now. No idea of price, though

[Matthew Verkler]

The PPP is still available on Red.com for order. All those that want it but haven't made that clear to Red can vote by putting down a deposit (I just did). That doesn't necessarily mean we'll get it, but it's a very real way to make our desire known, isn't it? (and that deposit can always be applied to the rest of our order if they don't bring the PPP back)

I've been holding off on putting in my full order because "everything can and will change", so I thought what's the point? Also, reservation holders were told at one point not to worry about accessories because we'd "be taken care of". Now I see the folly of not ordering everything I want early on.

In any case, I'm incredibly stoked about this historic day!

Verko

[luis bustamante]

I'm sure most of the missing gaps in the info available will be addressed at IBC. So we'll find out pretty soon, but I'm quite certain that the sum of all the parts needed to build the PPP won't be far from it's original retail price as a whole.

Also, we've all known that "all specs are subject to change - you can count on it". I'd rather have these minor surprises than a closed R&D process.

The best,

[G.A. Kokes]

I did not reserve because i thought I can wait till november shipment.

This was our exact understanding as well. There have been numerous posts asking when reservation holders need to make option selections. The indicated answer was:

When final payment was due. The options available at that time would be offered to reservation holders.

For that reason we have not reserved extras yet. We were under the impression that all the options could be ordered when final payment was due. If that has changed it would be good to know.

I recall an email from RED several months ago, asking what we were offering as far as services & rentals was concerned. I believe it was for a database that they were planning on making public at some point. We indicated the options in that reply.

Cheers,
G

[Martin Drew]

Hey, I'm sorry but some people need to think twice before complaining the way they do in this thread.:angry03:

I know Jim is a big Boy and doesn't need me to defend him, but I just can't let pass this kind of accusations like it's a normal thing on a board like this.

Hey jack seriously… Do you think the guys at Red need this kind of comments after all the hard work they've put up to offer us such a bargain of a camera.
I think it's time you relax a bit and do a reality check. When was the last time you got a chance to have such a close look at the development of such an extaordinary product.
Why don't you go and chat with sony or panasonic or arri's executives.
If you ain't happy or feel uncertain about this company's honnesty, by all means get your money back and stop bringing such accusations to this otherwise friendly and sincere board.

I can't believe I didn't even call you names:huh:

Making the development process of RedONE comparatively open is beneficial both to us in that we get to influence the design and implimentation of the product and to Red in that they get to supply a product most appropriate to the market. Our side of this is we give critical feedback both positive and negative to any announcements or proposals made by Red. It is most healthy if people say what they think. I don't think it is helpful for people to be knocked if they state that they are unhappy or disappointed by any announcements. I don't believe we or Red would be best served by the feedback being anything other than an honest reflection of what people think.

Just my happerth worth.

M

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Making the development process of RedONE comparatively open is beneficial both to us in that we get to influence the design and implimentation of the product and to Red in that they get to supply a product most appropriate to the market. Our side of this is we give critical feedback both positive and negative to any announcements or proposals made by Red. It is most healthy if people say what they think. I don't think it is helpful for people to be knocked if they state that they are unhappy or disappointed by any announcements. I don't believe we or Red would be best served by the feedback being anything other than an honest reflection of what people think.

Just my happerth worth.

M

Amen to that, but I reacted because of the accusations contained in the initialy quoted post, not because of the disagreement, wich I can perfectly understand, believe you me.
I keep thinking we shouldn't accuse Jim and his company of trying to make unapropriate profits on our backs.
Yours
Emmanuel

[laguun]

Making the development process of RedONE comparatively open is beneficial both to us in that we get to influence the design and implimentation of the product and to Red in that they get to supply a product most appropriate to the market. Our side of this is we give critical feedback both positive and negative to any announcements or proposals made by Red. It is most healthy if people say what they think. I don't think it is helpful for people to be knocked if they state that they are unhappy or disappointed by any announcements. I don't believe we or Red would be best served by the feedback being anything other than an honest reflection of what people think.
M
I agree Martin.

However, the last 2 weeks i didnt want to make too critical remarks, as i think the red team has deserved praise now.


sadly, that occured exactly while they (for the first time) did 2 things which werent clever im my humble opinion (pro res as delivery for the 2k ctl, and a somewhat unclear communication for the windows development plan), but that all is really unimportant compared to the fact that they built the camera.

Such a small group of talented people really surpassed 100s of the most experienced engineers of the double de facto dupoly from asia and europe (panasonic/sony for 709 and arri/aaton for 35mm). Having worked for many companies and having seen many excellent products being blocked/killed by management, this really restored my faith in a good company culture - and a somewhat extraordinary customer relationship.

[Emmanuel Cambier]

If the premium package can be assembled from individual items, this is a price raise in discuise.

I don't like the idea of price changes a few months after order confirmation. Changing your pricelist usually affects new orders, not old ones.

And if this simply is a change in pricing, and if you decide to do it retroactivly, at least give us the option to accept the price raise without forcing us make nitty gritty individual parts picking.

I'm willing to receive a new order confirmation with a higher price as an act of goodwill, but I don't want to spend time on trying to foresee in detail what parts I will and will not need.

Well this is the original post and well… I just over reacted…sorry:poster_oops:

[R. Gonzales]

You guys had you chance to order the PPP...shame on you for not doing it.
Jim asked us to place our orders so he could gauge production. I ordered the PPP and placed a deposit...but it appears the majority of you who are complaining failed to send Jim an order as he requested, so he saw little demand.
As long as we can order the parts though, its really no big deal.

I think what digitalfx is saying is probably right. I too fall into that category of not pre-ordering the PPP. But I am really interested in building my own. I wasn't aware that might have been possible.

Method

[planet e]

count me as one of the few people who is really happy with this decision.

the Basic seemed too little, and the Premium seemed a bit too much. for my 2-camera order, i was going to order one of each and then mix n match. i'll probably be able to save a bit of money by beefing up the basic with the add-ons that i'll actually use the most. gets back to the total customization model.

the Premium pack did seem nice, though, i can see why users might be bummed to see it pulled from the list of available options.

[Joel Kaye]

count me as one of the few people who is really happy with this decision. the Basic seemed too little, and the Premium seemed a bit too much.


Ditto.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

the Premium pack did seem nice, though, i can see why users might be bummed to see it pulled from the list of available options.

I don't see a big deal. All the parts will be available. No one knew for sure, 100%, which parts were included anyway, or at least I don't think we knew. Even with the premium pack, I was under the impression that many may still need to buy an extra grip handle or two or a few other complimentary pieces. There's a good bet that with the Premium pack, a lot of us would have ended up with pieces we don't use.

[Jack Wester]

No one knew for sure, 100%, which parts were
included anyway, or at least I don't think we knew.

Basic Production Package +
RED RAIL MOUNT (3)
RED ROD SHORT (1)
RED ROD LONG (4)
RED RAIL HANDLE BRACKET
RED GRIP HANDLE (1)
RED SIDE HANDLE (4)
RED 15mm ROD ADAPTOR (Studio)
RED 15mm ROD ADAPTOR (Lightweight)


According to a post in this thread.

[Rocco Schult]

Jim asked us to place our orders so he could gauge production. I ordered the PPP and placed a deposit...but it appears the majority of you who are complaining failed to send Jim an order as he requested, so he saw little demand.

I am with the respect for being honest and appreciate the openness to this board and community. Outstanding, yes. - So far, so good.

But what you say has been declined a couple of times as far as I remember, yes, there was a request, but at the same time, many will have experienced this after mailing the RED staff, it was clearly stated: we will contact everybody first and reservationists (thats what its here about, not the fact, that prices change ? because sometimes they just do), for that everybody is able to place an order appropriate of their needs.

Was very nice and at the same time couldn't have been more unclear IMHO.

Nonetheless, I am still with trust here and open:
If its about 'Take the small one and upgrade' (more or less what Jim said..) I'm with it and there with trust. It will come a good way.

All else has, not ?

[Greg M]

I am with the respect for being honest and appreciate the openness to this board and community. Outstanding, yes. - So far, so good.

But what you say has been declined a couple of times as far as I remember, yes, there was a request, but at the same time, many will have experienced this after mailing the RED staff, it was clearly stated: we will contact everybody first and reservationists (thats what its here about, not the fact, that prices change ? because sometimes they just do), for that everybody is able to place an order appropriate of their needs.

Was very nice and at the same time couldn't have been more unclear IMHO.

Nonetheless, I am still with trust here and open:
If its about 'Take the small one and upgrade' (more or less what Jim said..) I'm with it and there with trust. It will come a good way.

All else has, not ?

Not really sure what you are saying but Red stated on numerous occasions that they wanted us to place our orders for accessories and lenses asap so that they could gauge demand for the purpose of production.

For me it was pretty clear, which is why I went on-line and ordered all my accessories and lenses.

[garageman]

I am with the respect for being honest and appreciate the openness to this board and community. Outstanding, yes. - So far, so good.

But what you say has been declined a couple of times as far as I remember, yes, there was a request, but at the same time, many will have experienced this after mailing the RED staff, it was clearly stated: we will contact everybody first and reservationists (thats what its here about, not the fact, that prices change ? because sometimes they just do), for that everybody is able to place an order appropriate of their needs.

Was very nice and at the same time couldn't have been more unclear IMHO.

Nonetheless, I am still with trust here and open:
If its about 'Take the small one and upgrade' (more or less what Jim said..) I'm with it and there with trust. It will come a good way.

All else has, not ?


No, you are quite wrong, there was a request made to place orders ahead of shipping time to guage order amounts, I remember it very clearly. If the request had not been made I wouldn't have placed an accessory order until shipping time.

[Damien Molineaux]

... After changes to the sensor board cooling system (different than we had 2 weeks ago)...
Jim

Now that's amazing !

Damien

[Pedro Ruiz Mateos]

My preference is premium...

[Greg M]

Now that's amazing !

Damien

It is pretty amazing!! major changes 2 weeks before delivering final units...incredible!

[Curran Giddens]

No, you are quite wrong, there was a request made to place orders ahead of shipping time to guage order amounts, I remember it very clearly. If the request had not been made I wouldn't have placed an accessory order until shipping time.

You are correct in that there was a request made, but I don't think there was an email with a formal request. I placed my accessories pre-order on April 17, which was probably the day after the request was made.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Basic Production Package +
RED RAIL MOUNT (3)
RED ROD SHORT (1)
RED ROD LONG (4)
RED RAIL HANDLE BRACKET
RED GRIP HANDLE (1)
RED SIDE HANDLE (4)
RED 15mm ROD ADAPTOR (Studio)
RED 15mm ROD ADAPTOR (Lightweight)


According to a post in this thread.

OK, I guess that info is also on the RED web site, but I was assuming that there would be some more to it or some changes since we've seen pictures of things like the t-handle and other goodies not listed there.

[vanguy]

I wish there was an a la carte pricelist. I think there used to be. I'm sure it'll be posted soon. But I guess the guys at Red are busy today...

[Thor Wixom]

Jim,

For the sake of convenience, it would be great if you gave us the option of ordering the PPP and just raised the price.

I would gladly pay it. Anyone who wouldn't is an ungrateful chump.

-Thor

[jaadgy akanni]

Now, where's that list I've been keeping with the names of those who called RED "Vaporware" and "Hogwash" just a few months ago...oh here it is...hahaha

[NormLi]

What happens if you have already ordered the premium production pack even though it is now discontinued before we receive it? (Mine is scheduled to arrive in Feb 08).

[Damien Molineaux]

Check out my post here : http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4130&page=2

It includes a copy and link to Kelly's April 23rd post about ordering accessories, and I repeat here my reccomendation for those bummed out about the PPP being discontinued.

The Red premium production pack is still listed on red.com, run there and put your order in and your deposit down, there's no better way to let Jim and team know that there is a demand for it. It's only a $275 deposit. Go ! Now !

Cheers,
Damien

PS I'll just add that personnaly I've always wanted, and stated many times, I just want the basic prod pkg with an extra grip and the lightweight 15mm rod adaptor. If I had a little more liberty fund wise, I would get the ppp though, but for my needs, my priorities are elsewhere (mattebox, extra batteries, ND filters, etc.)

[Joe Carney]

Just my .02
I am one of those who reserved body only to see what changes are coming, so no complaints here. We puts down our money, we takes our chances.
I've been around long enough to know we are being offered a great deal, but costs do start mounting.
I was planning on the Basic, then adding on as need and money allow.

With REDs modular design there is every reason to expect
a good 3rd party accessory market to develope.

Plus there is no reason one couldn't get some billet Aluminum Alloy and have it milled for special tasks.

[Jeremy Torrie]

I'm way down the line but would have definitely ordered the PPP. Didn't see any request for this unfortunately. The PPP is a must for us; guess we'll have to see how we can rig a la carte.

[Michael Morlan]

So, I placed my accessories order including the PPP. I entered my CC number but I understand the 10% deposit will be taken from my early-adopter credit.

We'll see. :whistling:

[Greg M]

So, I placed my accessories order including the PPP. I entered my CC number but I understand the 10% deposit will be taken from my early-adopter credit.

We'll see. :whistling:

And where did you "understand" this from?
The 10% deposit will be charged to your credit card, the "early-adopter credit" will be deducted from the final sale.

[red1225]

You guys had you chance to order the PPP...shame on you for not doing it.
Jim asked us to place our orders so he could gauge production. I ordered the PPP and placed a deposit...but it appears the majority of you who are complaining failed to send Jim an order as he requested, so he saw little demand.
As long as we can order the parts though, its really no big deal.

I'm with you!!! Partially. I do think it's kinda a big deal. I'm spending my life savings on putting this package together. Not just for the RED camera and its AKS, but a suitable head, stix, matte box, follow focus, etc. to offer an as complete package as possible.

Some of us were paying attention!!!!!...

I didn't plan on getting or shoulda, coulda, woulda get a PPP. I DID order a it back in April and of course placed my 10% deposit??? What now!! I have to pay extra to put together an equivalent package???

Please don't get me wrong...I'm not complaining...well...yes I am. But I think that RED should honor the ones with enough insight to pre order the PPP at its quoted price.