Premium or Basic Production Pack?

[Mr. Paul White]

What would your choice be?

[Eric MacIver]

Make this a poll. My preference is premium...

[Unwounded]

I put my deposit down for the premium package months ago. I'm real sorry to hear of this development. the Premium package was super sweet.

[Jack Wester]

I put my deposit down for the premium package months ago. I'm real sorry to hear of this development. the Premium package was super sweet.

I put a deposit on the premium package as well. This is indeed not good news.

[Simon Smith]

I put a deposit on the premium package as well. This is indeed not good news.Ditto.

[Jason Francois]

I have a feeling that the Premium Package was just way to expensive to produce. I knew it looked way too underpriced. Still hope I can make it all work, because it's still the bargain of the century in any case.

[Jack Wester]

I have a feeling that the Premium Package was just way to expensive to produce. I knew it looked way too underpriced. Still hope I can make it all work, because it's still the bargain of the century in any case.
Red is free to raise the price. Changing pricelist is normal business practice and should not upset anyone.

However, you normally don't do this for existing orders. Once you've sent out an order confirmation, the trade is commited and you should be able to base its future decisions, plans and budgets based on that. Especially not existing when taking deposits.

Although legally correct, this is not really good business practice.

[Don King]

Amen to that.


Red is free to raise the price. Changing pricelist is normal business practice and should not upset anyone.

However, you normally don't do this for existing orders. Once you've sent out an order confirmation, the trade is commited and you should be able to base its future decisions, plans and budgets based on that. Especially not existing when taking deposits.

Although legally correct, this is not really good business practice.

[Darwin]

What happened to customizing and modularity? Now you have a solid base from which to build on. Think about it.

[Don King]

Please, act as grow up people and stop to be fanboys.

I'm sorry but I had to say it!

[Brook Willard]

Not necessary, Don.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Basic Production Pack is a lighter and that does matter now when camera body weight is about 10 pounds.

[Brook Willard]

Just to put it in perspective, an Arri 235 body + loaded mag is more than 10lbs. It's closer to 12 if memory serves.

[Don King]

Not necessary, Don.

Perhaps Brook, perhaps... Or maybe not. You're a smart guy. I asked apologies, anyways. Though sometimes, it can be tough but it's not useless. The money costs to everyone, to earn.

[Brook Willard]

I'm just one to always look for the friendly way to say things, particularly when I can add a few ellipses.

[Don King]

Yes, but it makes me mad when we're shooting our own feet.

[garageman]

Since some of us have placed a deposit already for the premium production pack, they at least should be honoured, subject to change or not. Fair enough the PPP is dicontinued now but we were asked to order the PPP ahead of time to gauge orders. It's like we're getting 2 different messages, one asking us to order then another telling us not to order. It's a bit of a diifferent situation than changing the in-development tech specs on the camera.

However, I'm sure we'll all be accomodated in some way as we have been throughout the year.

[Elijah Kelley]

I also placed a deposit for premium pro pack and seeing Jim mentioned not enough interest maybe this poll is just the ticket to show him just how many people are interested. If RED makes it happen great! If not I'm still glad we have the camera and at least the basic pack.

Keeping my hopes up.

[roryhinds]

I ordered the production package some time ago.

[laguun]

guys, the red camera would be a steal at $50.000.

[G.A. Kokes]

This was my post on the "Some New Changes" Thread:


Quote: Originally Posted by babubu

"I did not reserve because i thought I can wait till November shipment."

Quote: Originally Posted by G.A.Kokes


"This was our exact understanding as well. There have been numerous posts asking when reservation holders need to make option selections. The indicated answer was:

When final payment was due. The options available at that time would be offered to reservation holders.

For that reason we have not reserved extras yet. We were under the impression that all the options could be ordered when final payment was due. If that has changed it would be good to know.

I recall an email from RED several months ago, asking what we were offering as far as services & rentals was concerned. I believe it was for a database that they were planning on making public at some point. We indicated the options in that reply."

Cheers,
G

[Russ McDonald]

My understanding was that PPP was having problems with carbon fiber rods. So the alternatives, were going to be either stainless or titanium rods. Titanium being the clear favorite. That's big dollars...

I will have to pay the price, with the poll results I'm sure they're going make another change, I think those who have already reserved the PPP will get what they have paid for, IMHO.

Anybody have news on the super handle.

[PaulClements]

A deposit is not an order. Red do not have to honour it the same way I'm afraid, so all those holding out for premium production packages because they placed a deposit on them will likely be disappointed in my opinion.

I'm sure they will see all people have a fair deal when it comes to the production packs though.

Paul

[Daniel Reichenbach]

I ordered the productions pack, I ordered everything. And I'm a big boy (ok for the first time in my life I'm also a fan boy). But why should I be disapointed? RED 222 will coming soon, that counts for me (and hopefully some lenses).

[mick doyle]

i ordered (reserved a ppp) its no big deal to lose it however dissent should be allowed on the forum.

[David Cubbage]

I too have put a deposit down for the premium pack but, as all things Red are subject to change, I am not worried by the news. All I know is that we are getting the greatest camera deal of all time! (OK, I have to wait until January for mine;) As long as I can mount it on a tripod and shoot I shall be very happy. If I have to pay more for the premium pack than expected, then so be it. The last thing I want is for Red to start loosing money on something like this. Jim and the Red team have delivered to the world an amazing camera for at an unbeleivabley low price.

Congratulations to Red on delivering the first shipment of many!

David

[Brook Willard]

My understanding was that PPP was having problems with carbon fiber rods. So the alternatives, were going to be either stainless or titanium rods. Titanium being the clear favorite. That's big dollars...


The CF rods went out a long time ago.

[Ivan G]

Once again with all the changes being made for the better. I can't see why the PPP would be canceled.

[Kyle Spicer]

I pre-order the PPP as well, but I'm sure Jim will change things around agian in the future. As he always says "Everything is subject to change."

[Paul Wizikowski]

Only time will tell. I for one ordered the PPP and still want it. On the flip side no other camera for filming comes with any form of the PPP (certainly nothing more than the BPP), so really were just losing a little bit of icing, the whole cake is still there.

[Gordon Prince]

No Ask, No Tell, No Soup for You.

[number6]

Where's the button for NO production pack?

[Pedro Ruiz Mateos]

My preference is premium...

[Cory Schulthies]

Its all dollars and cents, you don't become a billionaire by giving away sunglasses, and you don't stay one by losing money on the premium production pack. Jim is in this to make money, as he should. But if they severely under priced the premium they should just up the price rather than try to hide their mistake.

[Bal Deo]

i had ordered the ppp at the time of ordering the camera. so what will the guys who oredered ppp actualy get???

[bradvr]

Today was a great day and our cameras are awesome! Yes, I too was disappointed when I found that I couldn't get the Premium Production Pack. However, my disappointment was not being able to "check a box" to get PPP. In the end I just ordered everything al la carte to build a production pack, customized for our needs.

The result was a production pack that is flexible - which, after all, is what we all want. I haven't figured out the difference in cost, but let's keep things in perspective - all of the materials being used by RED are first class, the engineering and fabrication is terrific, and all of it is way less dollars then other cinema companies would charge. BH

www.shootwithred.com
www.videoresources.com

[Seung Han]

As somebody who ordered the premium I'm disappointed at people who didn't put a deposit on it and are now saying they were going to. I understand there are financial reasons as well as the concern of Red Team changing things around, but I think some people are getting carried away with expectations...

These guys are starting a very capital intensive business model and needed our feedback in terms of what we were ordering to make sense what was going to work for them. If you fall in the bracket of waiting last minute to decide only what was going to work for you then the spirit of community feedback and interaction Red has created is basically moot. You can't have it both ways. What's fair is fair.

That being said, I can't believe this is really happening. I will soon have a camera that will shoot 4k!!! I am going to glut the film market with my Red films. :holloween:

[Emanuel A.]

As somebody who ordered the premium I'm disappointed at people who didn't put a deposit on it I'm not sure where this idea is coming from... I didn't read any information saying that we should put a deposit on the Premium production pack unless on the cameras. And I did. April 25th and October 5th or 13rd on my 2nd camera reservation. I'm afraid any reservation holder had instructions to put any deposit on the accessories in any way other than as when we would complete the transaction.

[Seung Han]

I put a deposit on my whole package, it was around $2800.

Maybe the ordering method changed after the break around April?

[Emanuel A.]

I put a deposit on my whole package, it was around $2800.

Maybe the ordering method changed after the break around April?I think so.

I hope Jim may re-think this announcement and may compensate who believe in this company since the beginning (I said April 25th but actually was 2006). And may open this option to all the reservation holders on that condition as pioneers. We have been patiently waiting for the RED ONE extended to its accessory options on the Premium production pack for those who have had this choice. Since its price has been announced on last mid-March.

[Sanjin Jukic]

I don't understand.
People still do not getting that there are no need for
the Premium Production Pack.
Actually the third parties can do it for them
and all in various options and prices as well.

[Seung Han]

I think so.

I hope Jim may re-think this announcement and may compensate who believe in this company since the beginning (I said April 25th but actually was 2006). And may open this option to all the reservation holders on that condition as pioneers. We have been patiently waiting for the RED ONE extended to its accessory options on the Premium production pack for those who have had this choice. Since its price has been announced on last mid-March.

I discovered the board about a month ago and placed an order about two weeks ago. Since information is scattered, the sense I got was that some accessories would be stocked while others might be lagging in terms of delivery, so I just thought it was best to figure out what I needed and put a deposit on everything in case the queue was different for different accessories.

I think early adopters such as yourself had a dialogue going with Jim and his team and the understanding was that it was not necessary to know accessories you wanted until they contacted you that your camera was ready.

If that is the case then I am wrong to be disappointed in anybody. It sounds like as the process developed unforseen factors kicked in and the Red team decided the PPP was either not in demand enough as a package or too expensive to produce in relation to demand or just made practical sense (I hope) to offer everything in parts...

[istvanttt]

As somebody who ordered the premium I'm disappointed at people who didn't put a deposit on it and are now saying they were going to. I understand there are financial reasons as well as the concern of Red Team changing things around, but I think some people are getting carried away with expectations...

These guys are starting a very capital intensive business model and needed our feedback in terms of what we were ordering to make sense what was going to work for them. If you fall in the bracket of waiting last minute to decide only what was going to work for you then the spirit of community feedback and interaction Red has created is basically moot. You can't have it both ways. What's fair is fair.

That being said, I can't believe this is really happening. I will soon have a camera that will shoot 4k!!! I am going to glut the film market with my Red films. :holloween:

During NAB I wanted to make the order, but he computer in the booth didn't work. The very friendley girl from RED told me that if I want then I can make it later from home, but in any case it is not neccessary to do till I get advised that my camera is ready. To be sure I insisted and asked again, explaining my concerns that I don't want to find myself with limited accessories. She repeated me again, that there is no pre-order for the accessories needed.

If the business model of RED needs a change in the price politics because they rised the quality of the accessories, then I do understand it and I'm fine with that. What makes me slitley disy is when I have been told that I do not need to order the accessories and become now responsable for not having done it.

Anway, this days are happy days, so I almost already forgot what I have writen now.:)
Nice weekend to everybody
Istvan

[Otto]

You still can order the Premium Package at the store. So I did tonight. I wonder what will happens...

[Rob Lohman]

Please keep in mind that the parts from the premium production pack or not going away. So you can still get it, it's just not offered as a bundle for that price anymore. The bits and pieces that made up the PPP are not going anywhere.

[NormLi]

I too placed an order on the premium package and I want it!!

[Roberto B]

me too.. and there's (al)ready running on the sets..

http://www.reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1008&d=1188779097

[Roberto B]

jim, we all want the premium.. pleeeease.. be clement w/ us.. :) we're part of your marketing too.. hehehehe

[laguun]

Anyone can built its PP (or larger) from parts, starting with the BP.
PP will not been offered by red. Allow the people a slight miscalculation here and there - its not as red would be expensive.

sony once gave me an offer of 239$ - on a firewire cable. no joke.

[Don King]

Please keep in mind that the parts from the premium production pack or not going away. So you can still get it, it's just not offered as a bundle for that price anymore. The bits and pieces that made up the PPP are not going anywhere.

However, sometimes there's a difference between to buy or not to buy, correct?

[Simon Smith]

Correct.

[Joe Aurili]

Please keep in mind that the parts from the premium production pack or not going away. So you can still get it, it's just not offered as a bundle for that price anymore. The bits and pieces that made up the PPP are not going anywhere.

How about a list of parts needed to upgrade the basic to the premium?

[Mr. Paul White]

However, sometimes there's a difference between to buy or not to buy, correct?

Yes, that's the idea.

[Jack Wester]

Please keep in mind that the parts from the premium production pack or not going away. So you can still get it, it's just not offered as a bundle for that price anymore.
It was offered and I did order it. I have a downpayment for it. If the parts are going to be available, it gets even more annoying. It is okay to be annoyed for price changes that affects done deals. My customer would never accept me changing the deal like that, even if it is doable under our terms and conditions as it is under Reds terms and conditions.

I understand the disclaimers and the "subject to change", but it would be easier to accept if the parts was cancelled. As the parts are going to be available, its simply a retroactive price change. I can get what I ordered but not at the price agreed. I understand that those having a $2500 goodies package can discard this more easily. Don't get me wrong. I love the camera, I love Red and Jim's my idol. And as far as the money goes, I've ordered two cameras, all the lenses, viewfinder, lcd and good knows what, all for the purpose of having this as a private hobby, so a few hundred bucks won't make a big difference. But I don't like it and I'm not affraid to speak my opinion on the matter. I hate it when my customers don't let me know when they think I make mistakes. I expect them to.

If I need to renegotiate done deals, I do so by mutual agreement. If I have good arguments, the customer and I strike a new deal. I things go really haywire, maybe I make a decision at my sole discretion. But it is something that I avoid at (almost) any cost. And come on, how many existing downpayments on the premium package are we talking about? Why not strike a deal that makes sense to both parties? Not even a rebate announced on existing orders/downplayments seems a little blunt.

[Jannard]

When we offered the Premium Package, we started building tools for casting and priced accordingly. Because of your feedback, we have since changed most of the parts (for the better) and have thrown away hundreds of thousands of dollars on tooling. Because things are changing, again for the better, we are now only machining these parts. We have honored the Basic Package, even though we lose a ton of money on every set we sell. Just for fun, take a Basic set to a high volume machine shop and get a quote for hundreds of sets. You will find that the cost per set is over $3K. Yet we are honoring our $1250 price. We just cannot do that with the Premium set. Our fault is in thinking we could build molds for casting too early. Our only course is to tell you what happened and accept the consequences.

If we ever stabilize development of the Rail system and DO build molds, the price will come down.

We do have 50 sets of the original Premium Production as shown at NAB and will gladly sell you these at the original prices quoted. They are heavy and not 100% compatible with our current accessories. But they may be collector's pieces?

Jim

[Rick Darge]

Thanks Jim

Any idea about how much it would cost for someone to rig out their basic production system to mirror what the premium system once was?

[damonbots]

We have honored the Basic Package, even though we lose a ton of money on every set we sell. Just for fun, take a Basic set to a high volume machine shop and get a quote for hundreds of sets. You will find that the cost per set is over $3K. Yet we are honoring our $1250 price.

Jim

I haven't ordered any accessories yet, mostly due to budget considerations. When my camera is ready, will I still be able to buy the Basic Package for $1250 or am I SOL?

[Häakon]

I haven't ordered any accessories yet, mostly due to budget considerations. When my camera is ready, will I still be able to buy the Basic Package for $1250 or am I SOL?
The Basic Package will still be offered at its quoted price. The premium package is no longer available due mostly to users wanting to configure individual pieces for their packages separately. We don't have prices on those individual pieces, but you will probably be presented with options when your number comes up. Jim says that the basic package is a steal for the cost, so it's a good idea to start with that and build from there.

[damonbots]

Definitely a steal! Thanks for the info

[Mr. Paul White]

We just cannot do that with the Premium set. Our fault is in thinking we could build molds for casting too early. Our only course is to tell you what happened and accept the consequences.

If we ever stabilize development of the Rail system and DO build molds, the price will come down.

We do have 50 sets of the original Premium Production as shown at NAB and will gladly sell you these at the original prices quoted. They are heavy and not 100% compatible with our current accessories. But they may be collector's pieces?

JimWhat does it mean? Should I give up my order? When I did it, the premium production pack was available for the announced price. If now not anymore, won't you honor at least the orders already done?

I'm surely not looking for a collector's piece.

[tj williams]

Thanks Jim and all for holding the basic price.
Waiting to find out how much the light weight support adapter will be?
Some bracketry for the top for lowmode steadi also.
Any Idea when the Ala Carte menue will be posted on the store site?
I have had machine work done, and having machined parts rather than cast parts is going to make a better unit
we should pay more for these higher quality parts.