View Full Version : ISO news...
Jannard
08-31-2007, 12:40 AM
We cannot determine if the "correct" ISO is 320 or 500. There is a tad less noise at 320, but 500 looks incredible. Actually, we are getting very good results at ISO 1000 and think that it is a very useable rating for the camera. Whether or not you choose 320 or 500 as the "rated" ISO completely depends on the subject matter. The higher the range of the subject matter, the more you would lean towards 500. But if you have a normal scene and want the very best image, 320 is the number (and default).
Jim
Brook Willard
08-31-2007, 12:44 AM
So 400, eh? :wink:
I can't wait to try out 1,000...
Gavin Greenwalt
08-31-2007, 12:48 AM
How about an uncompressed Tiff and we decide :D
Jannard
08-31-2007, 01:14 AM
You get to decide as soon as you get your RED ONE in hand...
Jim
Álex Montoya
08-31-2007, 01:16 AM
It's good to have 320 to dial down.
Mark Thorpe
08-31-2007, 01:17 AM
Oooo, whats that puddle......?
Paolo Tinari
08-31-2007, 01:17 AM
Will i stop struggling focusing at 1.4?
Andrew Benz
08-31-2007, 01:22 AM
OT...Paolo... great showreel!!!
Eric MacIver
08-31-2007, 01:59 AM
Time will tell... The pros will speak. Red will kick butt regardless.
Karl H
08-31-2007, 02:45 AM
...The higher the range of the subject matter, the more you would lean towards 500.
Jim
forgive my ignoranace here, but does this mean the DR is greater if you shoot at a higher ISO?
Graeme Nattress
08-31-2007, 06:36 AM
is you shoot at a higher ISO, you're trading shadow range for highlight range.
Graeme
Kjetil Haugen
08-31-2007, 07:27 AM
is you shoot at a higher ISO, you're trading shadow range for highlight range.
Graeme
... a fair trade!!
Jaime Vallés
08-31-2007, 07:31 AM
This sounds great. Can't wait to see the tests of the first 25!
Are we still being advised to "expose to the right"?
Graeme Nattress
08-31-2007, 07:42 AM
Yes, but I'd say it's more like exposing to ensure that the maximum number of code values are used for significant image tones. And normally, that means exposing to the right.....
Graeme
Paul Wizikowski
08-31-2007, 08:31 AM
Graeme,
Can you give a brief description of what "expose to the right" means?
Thanks
luis bustamante
08-31-2007, 08:56 AM
Graeme,
Can you give a brief description of what "expose to the right" means?
Thanks
This article was referenced here in the forum before:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml
Unwounded
08-31-2007, 10:19 AM
320 ASA is still totally acceptable. That's what Im used to shooting at most of the time anyway. Jus tso long as it's not like a arri D20 and is rated at a max of 100 :tongue:
Johnny Friday
08-31-2007, 10:28 AM
Actually, we are getting very good results at ISO 1000 and think that it is a very useable rating for the camera. Whether or not you choose 320 or 500 as the "rated" ISO completely depends on the subject matter.
Jim
at 1000 can you imagine the possibilities for underwater night images? I can already see some amazing images that will soon be captured.
Humboldt Squid
Spawning worms
Salps
etc........:biggrin:
OOPS---meant to post in another thread. Sorry
laguun
08-31-2007, 10:32 AM
sony cinealta is around 300 on p and 600 on i.
Graeme Nattress
08-31-2007, 10:38 AM
With what tonal curve though? HD cameras generally have a tonal curve that brightens up the image a lot, giving them an unnaturally high ISO rating....
Graeme
laguun
08-31-2007, 10:55 AM
With what tonal curve though? HD cameras generally have a tonal curve that brightens up the image a lot, giving them an unnaturally high ISO rating....
Graeme
Standard 709 iirc.
I dont remember if its higher/lower on the kodak emulation in film setting, but in the 750/790/900 its pretty similar between film and 709.
The F23 is claimed to be pretty similar, but i never measured the F23. I am referring to the hdcam 2/3 cameras btw, i think the XDCAM should be less good.
If you want to have the details i would have to dig into the service manual, but i think today is not the day to read sony documentation!
Anyhow, they claim a lesser snr than the red, so the "pratical" asa rating of yours is higher than sony anyhow.
p.s. graeme, when i can bribe you (into speeding the windows support) by bringing a special whisky to amsterdam, let me know!
Graeme Nattress
08-31-2007, 11:05 AM
Bribing me personally for windows support won't help you I'm afraid. I'm windowsphobic :-) We have people on the team who know and understand Windows, but they don't need bribing, just some time to get it done.
As for the ISO and my question about the curve - indeed, REC709 is the transfer curve, but they tend to take the whole range of the sensor, call it 600%, assign the first 100% to the REC709 curve and add in the other 500% via a knee curve. That means the first 100% is very bright compared to what we do which is essentially treat the full dynamic range into the REC709 (or RED Log) curve. Doing the former, with the knee gives very videoy images and higher ISO than they should be able to claim using a more natural curve like we do. Hence my comment.....
Graeme
Brook Willard
08-31-2007, 11:45 AM
Then how about PPC support? :wink:
laguun
08-31-2007, 11:48 AM
Bribing me personally for windows support won't help you I'm afraid. I'm windowsphobic :-) We have people on the team who know and understand Windows, but they don't need bribing, just some time to get it done.
hrrhrr... whisky can be good to relax phobics :)
As for the ISO and my question about the curve - indeed, REC709 is the transfer curve, but they tend to take the whole range of the sensor, call it 600%, assign the first 100% to the REC709 curve and add in the other 500% via a knee curve. That means the first 100% is very bright compared to what we do which is essentially treat the full dynamic range into the REC709 (or RED Log) curve. Doing the former, with the knee gives very videoy images and higher ISO than they should be able to claim using a more natural curve like we do. Hence my comment.....
i have seen that on several hd-cameras, but in the case of the sony 750/790/900/900R i wouldn´t say that. If you go into
menu->paint->black gamma
and set that to adjustable, you can modify the lower aspect of the curve. and its pretty similar in its maximum up and maximum dampening down setting, anything set down there makes a unlinear stronger falloff in the lower 2/3/4 stops.
If you are talking about the 700/730, it could be possible, with the standard sony block and electronics found in 750/790/900/900r however, i had no such experiences - and i have been using them almost from the time they appeared on the market.
Furtermore, they all offer several baselines in all gamma ranges to equal several kodak film stocks in film mode and several gammas to meet different BBC/ITU/709 etc lines - and they work well, at least in our 35mm & hdcam mixed shoots.
Once our first red arrives (we are ~900, *sigh*), we will do an alignement between both cameras in order to shoot combined.
p.s. ok, another try to bribe - a sortiment of whisky would probably not reduce our reservation number, correct? :)
Graeme Nattress
08-31-2007, 11:56 AM
Sure, you can modify the curve, but I'm assuming ISO sensitivity is measured as it standardly comes. Our standard setup is deliberately insensitive and yet it still gives a nice high ISO :-)
Graeme
laguun
08-31-2007, 12:20 PM
Sure, you can modify the curve, but I'm assuming ISO sensitivity is measured as it standardly comes. Our standard setup is deliberately insensitive and yet it still gives a nice high ISO :-)
Graeme
I think the asas, even if comparable, are a good bit up to the qualification of the manufacturer.
What i can surely say, alone by the few testshots i have here - the red one low light behaviour is much better than anything i saw from sony 750/790/900/900r, GV Viper, Arri D20 and any Panasonic. -Much- better.
The ASA2000 shots look pretty fine & usable, with the other cameras you certainly won´t record that to a master without -strong- noise reduction.
p.s. As your ignored my selection of whiskey bribe for a lower resnr, i consider that try as failed as well. I am pretty certain i can´t lure you with 10 days of free hdcam rental? :)