My JVC HD250 with 35mm or a Red camera... ?

[pixeltv]

Hi friends,

I do not see difference of quality (in the image) between my JVC HD250 with 35mm adapter (+ Nikon 50mm F1.8D) and a Red Camera.

In the great screen the difference is seen...?

Red Camera:

http://red.cachefly.net/video/crossing1.mov

-------

Other HDV cameras with 35mm adapter:

http://www.redrockmicro.com/footage/...othinggold.mov

http://www.redrockmicro.com/footage/...pot_keyton.mov

http://www.redrockmicro.com/footage/JVC/metro_www.mov

http://www.redrockmicro.com/footage/...r_stringer.mov

-------

Pardon for my ignorance!

:glare:

PTV

[Mike Zinner]

pixeltv, take a look at the resolution comparison here (JVC HD250 has 720p):
http://www.red.com/technology

And also look at the compression comparison here (JVC HD250 uses HDV):
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4072

Your JVC HD250 with 35mm adapter can deliver very good results if your delivering format is PAL/NTSC or 1K.

But when you have to deliver 2k for film out, 1080p or even 720p the quality will not be up to what customers expect because the resolution is simply not there (and will be further degraded by the 35mm adapter) and the compression artifacts show very quickly when you have to do heavier color correction.

So if you have deliver mostly PAL/NTSC resolution or 1K for web, your cam is absolutely fine for this purpose and you do not need to consider a RED One yet.

[pixeltv]

Ok...

Thanks for the comparison links.

My present applications with my HD110 and 250 are documentary for TV and/or productions for DVD , industrial promotions, music clips...

I will not make a long film with my present cameras, but now I do not see difference (to the eye) of using a HD110 with a HD250 and my 35mm adapter with a Red.

If I see the difference of use a Sony Z1 or a HVX200 and 35mm adapters, with my HD110 in the same conditions (aperture, light, speed and more).

Are comparative videos with a camera “X” (example HD250) and a RED camera…?

Thanks again.

PTV

[Álex Montoya]

No, there are not, because the camera ships today. But watching the specs the differences should be day from night.

The RED has more than TEN times the resolution (921000 against 11480800 pixels), a good three more stops of latitude, about forty more times color resolution, around two more stops of sensibility (and the possibility to push it three more stops with acceptable noise) and far, far less compression artifacts.

Should I go on?

[Joel Kaye]

If I see the difference of use a Sony Z1 or a HVX200 and 35mm adapters, with my HD110 in the same conditions (aperture, light, speed and more).


I've got an HD-100 with the Micro35 and used to have an HVX. I've tested other cameras.

What you've got is capable of generating great images if you're delivering SD or PAL. Even at 720P it's pretty good.

Here's what I think I'm getting with RED over my current setup.

- Way more resolution - will project on large screens perfect. Futureproof resolution.

- More dynamic range. Walk outside and get better shadows and highlights than any other digital camera out there... and early reports indicate better than some 35mm film stocks.

- Better codec - shooting RAW (better for greenscreen, roto and FX in general)

- More robust camera. 35mm adapters are all a little touchy. If anything gets out of alignment your image suffers dramatically.

- better low light performance. RED can be shot up to 1000 iso and still looks better than the little HD cameras. (Tests will verify this, but I'm confident this is accurate)

- less noise in the image.

- 4 channels of uncompressed 24 bit audio

- MUCH better viewfinder and LCD.

- more customizable.

- record to hard drive or compact flash.

There's more, but that's enough right there for me to think it's worth an extra $10K to $15K if you've got the money.

Having said that... the JVC's can make awesome images so if you're happy now then just go shoot and skip RED until you can rent one and do a real comparison.

[pixeltv]

Thanks to all, the good knowledge (and the aid) are very useful for me!

In Spain today the RED is not available. Perhaps soon. And I will contact with the RED-boys to order one.

By the technical details I understand that the RED is far better equipment, and understand that to project in screen with my HD250 it is like projecting a VHS.

:clown2:

With my new RED I will offer a better service to my contract clients, and will gain a new market of rent.

Somebody knows the time of delay, for obtaining a RED…?

Thank to all. Its knowledge they really are helpful for me.

PTV

[pixeltv]

Yes, Andrew. But still I need additional time to pay my new HD250. I will begin with the RED in December. I already know that I will wait for a long time for my new RED, but still have other pending works with my present cameras.

The important reason was to know how because to pass me to a RED.

Another important question: The video outs of the RED are flip 180 degrees (how in my cameras with adapter 35 mm)… or normal....?

Thanks again!

PTV

[pixeltv]

No Andrew!

The links they have Copyright of other authors. The "Metro" not is my video! The videos examples are (all) in the Redrock Web-site:

http://www.redrockmicro.com/samples.html

I must wait up to March or April for receive my new camera…?

I can hope!!!

:ranting2:

Cheers!

[pixeltv]

If, but I use the links of examples. In a whole day I made the decision to buy a RED.

And my friends of dinamicam.com already made my avatar.

I am a little crazy.

Regards,

PTV

[pixeltv]

If, Spain is beautiful!
Party all the year!!!

9:00 am: Get Up
9:01 am: Make pee
9:30 am: Bar
10:45 am: Think about if work... or no
10:45:05 am: Not!
12:00 am: Lunch time
3:00 pm: Think about if work... or no
3:02 pm: Not
3:03 pm: Go to the bar.
3:04 pm: Two beer!
3:10 pm: Other beer... please!
3:30 pm: Make a rest
5:30 pm: Think about if work... or no
5:32 pm: Go to see the bulls
5:50 pm: Other beer and a hot dog
5:55 pm: Make pee
6:00 pm: Think the good that it is my life
6:01 pm: Other beer
8:30 pm: Have dinner with friends
10:00 pm: A cognac
10:30 pm: Think about if work tomorrow
10:31 pm: Hmmmmm.....
10:32 pm: Go to bed
10:35 pm: Make pee
1:00 am: Other pee
1:10 am: Zzzzzzzz!
9 am: Get Up again.

Vale… Live in Spain is too hard!

:whistling:

[pixeltv]

When you be here, I can lend to you my RED

:sarcasm:

[pixeltv]

Yes, We can make a sterovision!

No, in serious. You do not lost the contact with me. I will show some sites to you, and you will teach me to write in English.

:innocent:

Ok, My bed waits to me.
This like a chat. The boys of the forum will think bad....

bye, buddy!

PTV

[REDHKSC]

Hi friends,

I do not see difference of quality (in the image) between my JVC HD250 with 35mm adapter (+ Nikon 50mm F1.8D) and a Red Camera.

In the great screen the difference is seen...?

Red Camera:

http://red.cachefly.net/video/crossing1.mov

-------

Other HDV cameras with 35mm adapter:

http://www.redrockmicro.com/footage/...othinggold.mov

http://www.redrockmicro.com/footage/...pot_keyton.mov

http://www.redrockmicro.com/footage/JVC/metro_www.mov

http://www.redrockmicro.com/footage/...r_stringer.mov

-------

Pardon for my ignorance!

:glare:

PTV

I used 6 sets of JVC GY-HD251E to be connected to SONY 's HDSDI vision mixer ( MSF-2000 ) in the 720 / 50P uncompressed format then recorded both onto Mac Pro and Matrox Axio in uncompressed for 3 hours each night ( Total 4 nights )

and our final distribution products will be 1st DVD then Blue-Ray or HD-DVD.

Compressed once is better than Twice in the " Compressed World ".

I made it to be believe.

RED is not ready for Live 4K workflow for what I did for 720P or 1080i for the Big Live Event with the HD projectors.

Hope RED can have a 4K projector soon to prove they are the RED Digital Cinema or RED Digitianment in 4K LIVE !!!

STEWART

[pixeltv]

Hi REDHKSC,

Very good information.
You think that make the same with a RED cam, the image result would be better for final blue-ray... or the quality would be the same...?

You had mounted a 35 mm converter in your camera ...?

Thanks,

PTV

[REDHKSC]

Hi REDHKSC,

Very good information.
You think that make the same with a RED cam, the image result would be better for final blue-ray... or the quality would be the same...?

You had mounted a 35 mm converter in your camera ...?

Thanks,

PTV

I used 2/3" to 1/3" Fujilon made Lens mount converter for the 42X HD zoom lens, and I used Zesis Digit Prime ( B4 Mount ) as well to make HD formats.

I had a P+S mini35 but I hate the " Grainy Spinning glass " with BATTERY !!! No Battery Killing BAD Grain !!!

Stewart
URL : www.imagestation.com/members/StewartChong

[RED,BLUE&GREEN]

For Pixel; Yes the Red and the Jvc probably do look very much a like. Both have only a 720p output. So on a moniter.....and with the Red noise problem the Jvc might even look better.

For Concrete, Joelnet: Yes the Red WILL BE GREAT SOME DAY! But it doesn't right now have the futures that you have named. Remeber this camera is just in the prototype stage. All the cameras so far 100...will be sent back and upgraded. So it really isn't time yet for a test.

Lets let the Guys at Red come out with the Red camera...with all the features so we can compare them. A camera without a veiwfinder, without audio, without a good lens mount, and a s/n problem ...( to name a few) just isn't ready to be tested yet...lets be fair to Jim and Ted!!!!

[Greg M]

For Pixel; Yes the Red and the Jvc probably do look very much a like. Both have only a 720p output. So on a moniter.....and with the Red noise problem the Jvc might even look better.

For Concrete, Joelnet: Yes the Red WILL BE GREAT SOME DAY! But it doesn't right now have the futures that you have named. Remeber this camera is just in the prototype stage. All the cameras so far 100...will be sent back and upgraded. So it really isn't time yet for a test.

Lets let the Guys at Red come out with the Red camera...with all the features so we can compare them. A camera without a veiwfinder, without audio, without a good lens mount, and a s/n problem ...( to name a few) just isn't ready to be tested yet...lets be fair to Jim and Ted!!!!

you have posted this 8 times and you dont even own a camera...why?
The only thing you have correct is that we dont have a "viewfinder" yet (we can monitor output though) and we dont have audio enabled. You can still shoot with this camera an get far better results than the JVC, and you can still record audio (just not on board).

[CJ Roy]

Other HDV cameras with 35mm adapter:

http://www.redrockmicro.com/footage/HVX200/nothinggold.mov


I figured I'd chime in here, since I shot this mentioned video. We had used an HVX, plus an M2. After playing with my Red for a week, the difference between it and a prosumer HD camera is night and day. There's really no comparison.

Image quality aside, there are other aspects to consider. Adapters are fussy, there's additional light loss, flipped image and difficult to manage. We had a very limited budget, so all the interior shots had to be shot wide open... so pulling focus was a bitch. A lot of those shots were handheld, and it was the most uncomfortable thing I've ever had on my shoulder.

I'm proud of a lot of the photography in that video, but I have no doubts that I would have been able to get far better shots with the Red. Red's footage would have allowed me greater control over the image when I cut and colored the video. For the underexposed shots, we pushed it in post and it raised the noise floor. A lot of it was hidden in the SD down-convert, but the HD version really looked unacceptable in a lot of instances. Plus, the HVX is just a noisy camera.

I've now seen what both cameras can do and you'd be insane to pick an 35mm adapter option over the Red.

My .02

-CJ

[Brook Willard]

For Pixel; Yes the Red and the Jvc probably do look very much a like.
I assume you have hands-on experience with RED to confirm this, right?


So on a moniter.....and with the Red noise problem the Jvc might even look better.
You speak of this "RED noise problem" as though it is something that we should all know about. I personally have more experience with the RED than most posters on this forum - I'd love to hear more about this problem you've discovered in your experience.