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Jannard
01-19-2010, 12:57 PM
Goes here.

Jim

Jean Déraps
01-19-2010, 12:59 PM
Is it available for download yet?

Jannard
01-19-2010, 01:01 PM
Is it available for download yet?

See page 2 of "Thoughts and Tips".

Jean Déraps
01-19-2010, 01:06 PM
Many thanks Jim

Miltos Pilalitos
01-19-2010, 01:07 PM
The new REDcolor, REDgamma and FLUTcontrol are so amazing that i can't think of a reason i would use any of the previous colorspaces again.

The FLUTcontrol in particular is a time saver. It does instantly and elegantly what i had to do manually in the past. I also suspect a secret sauce somewhere in the way it manages Mysterium's latitude because the color remains good even in extreme settings.

Overall, a very possitive and exciting advancement! When will we see the new SDK in other software?

Ian Laurie
01-19-2010, 01:17 PM
just tested the iso settings in combination with red colour and red gamma. i pushed it to iso 5000 used the flut control to bring it down and it looks great. so if i had an underexposed image, would it work the same way? or would it remain fairly grainy. Don't have an example available for testing at the moment so if someone else could try it and let me know...

Cüneyt Kaya
01-19-2010, 01:20 PM
with flut i have the feeling that suddenly skintones can be held even after heavy cc, like the raw image is more like a tasty bubblegum you can chew on and on without losing the taste.

i am missing frameguides, is it there?
and is there an on/off button for the applied cc?

Sidney L. Plaut
01-19-2010, 01:22 PM
the pilot i'm Directing right now has witnessed some amazing RED development... just before we started shooting ... 4.5k - I took the chance and went with a Beta - and everything worked. I love it, feel very cinematic right away. shot in Redcode 42. Masterprimes and the works.... including some very big Danish stars...

I made a test blueray of a h.264 "low quality" quicktime, put it on my 100" projector and thought... you kidding me... and it isn't even graded, or in full rez!!! it looked that good.

so now when were almost wrapped (in 2 days), RED releases FLUT and all the new "post" toys... just in time for me to finish on...

Its kindda like buying property at the right time when your investment just gets better and better, with out costing you a thing...

thanks RED... once again.

EDIT: oh totally forgot this was about the new REDcinex... i went monologue"ing"...

Miltos Pilalitos
01-19-2010, 01:25 PM
So if i had an underexposed image, would it work the same way? or would it remain fairly grainy. Don't have an example available for testing at the moment so if someone else could try it and let me know...

The new Colour additions in REDCINE-X have nothing to do with grain i think.

The main concept is to help as preserve as much of the original latitude that was recorded, with better colour rendering even if we move the exposure's middle point.

But i am sure someone can explain it better than me. :)

Cüneyt Kaya
01-19-2010, 01:37 PM
would be great to have step by step guide of how to use the flut in thoughts thread.

David Rasberry
01-19-2010, 01:38 PM
so if i had an underexposed image, would it work the same way? or would it remain fairly grainy. Don't have an example available for testing at the moment so if someone else could try it and let me know...

Grain and noise on low exposure images is much improved with RC-X even before the new FLUT, colorspace and gamma tools. Pretty amazing improvements. I was playing with a night time Tokyo sample shot from Paul Leeming, an older build 16 shot downloaded from RedRelay before it disappeared.

Andrae Palmer
01-19-2010, 01:46 PM
On a Mac Pro Nehalem 8 core 2.93GHz with 6GB of RAM, ATI Radeon 4870 and OS X 10.6.2 the playback buffer is only caching 5 seconds ahead on 4480x1920 and 4096x2048 res Build 21 footage at 1/2 res. Why is the caching so limited? Deanan stated in another thread that it was up to 2GB of memory being utilized. Still only a few seconds at 1/2 res high. I've tried in both 32 and 64 bit kernel modes... still only 5 seconds or less.

I see the caching is working now... on prior versions sometimes it wouldn't cache at all. So that is a big improvement... I just want more of it.

Justin O'Neill
01-19-2010, 01:52 PM
Is this Mac only at this point?

I am trying to install it on a PC unsuccessfully. I wanna try it!

(Understood that this is a preview and can't be expected to work on all platforms, just hoping!)

Jean Déraps
01-19-2010, 02:01 PM
I'm doing a render test right now and it seems to only be using about 4 cores....Is there anyway to make REDCine use all available cores on a MacPro?

David Rasberry
01-19-2010, 02:09 PM
Is this Mac only at this point?

I am trying to install it on a PC unsuccessfully. I wanna try it!

(Understood that this is a preview and can't be expected to work on all platforms, just hoping!)

They are developing on Mac and porting to PC after the bugs are worked out. So yes Mac only at this point. :thumbdown:

David Battistella
01-19-2010, 02:17 PM
I know it's an alpha build but you asked!

What I like:

NEW COLOR SPACES - check
FAST RESPONSIVE INTERFACE - check
GUI - check
LIFT - check
FLUT - check
GENERATES CAMERA PRESETS - check
REDROCKET SUPPORT - check


What I'd like to see:

XML SUPPORT
Debayer control over render settings (I think it defaults to FULL)
List view in clip selection window
Flat 18% grey option in for GUI
STOPLIGHTS as in camera
ADD HANDLES feature for TIMELINE RENDERS
BETTER USE OF PROCESSORS FOR NON RED ROCKET RENDERS

R3D TRIM and SEND TO ARCHIVE TOOL (ask me about this and I'll explain further)

QUESTIONS
When do we get the NEW CAMERA BETA release?

Hope you can consider some of this.

mikeburton
01-19-2010, 02:19 PM
Question, the "save look to camera" function is in RLK format which we could potentially load in camera soon as we have a new build which I would assume incorporates the new FLUT and REDCOLOR / REDGAMMA correct? I would assume Lift / Gamma / Gain change settings from REDCINE-x wouldn't show up in camera though right?

brandon thomas
01-19-2010, 03:18 PM
i'm loving red cine-x!

i read somewhere that red cine-x will eventually support the tangent wave panel, i was wondering if it would also support the new Euphonix MC Color that's coming out in February.. I'm looking into getting a panel soon and was hoping both would be usable for this!

thanks!

Ian Laurie
01-19-2010, 03:44 PM
hey just spotted the detail controls. Denoise sounds awful promising. But it doesn't seem to be working. it wont move at all for me. Any ideas?

Jannard
01-19-2010, 03:46 PM
What I'd like to see:

XML SUPPORT
Debayer control over render settings (I think it defaults to FULL)
List view in clip selection window
Flat 18% grey option in for GUI
STOPLIGHTS as in camera
ADD HANDLES feature for TIMELINE RENDERS
BETTER USE OF PROCESSORS FOR NON RED Rocket™ RENDERS

R3D TRIM and SEND TO ARCHIVE TOOL (ask me about this and I'll explain further)



You do have handles for clips on the timeline... just click on the clip there.

Jim

http://www.redgrabs.com/up/1263953762.png

I Bloom
01-19-2010, 03:56 PM
When would I use Flut Control instead of exposure?

IBloom

Jannard
01-19-2010, 04:00 PM
When would I use Flut Control instead of exposure?

IBloom

Exposure will move the white point... FLUT Control will not. If you are not clipped in RAW, you will never clip in FLUT.

Jim

Ian Laurie
01-19-2010, 04:04 PM
Ok maybe I am missing something. Why would I bother with FLUT rather than just increase the ISO? they seem to be counter acting each other to me. What am I fundamentally misunderstanding here?

Ruairi Robinson
01-19-2010, 04:10 PM
Ok maybe I am missing something. Why would I bother with FLUT rather than just increase the ISO? they seem to be counter acting each other to me. What am I fundamentally misunderstanding here?

Flut keeps the white point locked without burning out the image.

Its easier to see than to explain.

The main point is... why is redcine-X so bloody slow. Can we expect it to be optimized to achieve the same performance we already had with the old redcine or not?

This does not feel like progress to me, compared to the many other things that have taken giant leaps forward.

Sanjin Jukic
01-19-2010, 04:16 PM
A sort of console like a Tangent's Wave is must have with REDCINE-X to see exactly

what is going on with grading in "real time" (RED Rocket™™™ helps a lot) from "native" R3D files.

Using the console's knobs and buttons is much easy way to get things done pretty fast doing color correction with R3D files.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/wave_redcine_x_04.jpg
Tanget Wave with Redcine-X both work perfect together.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/wave_redcine_x_05.jpg
Tanget Wave with Redcine-X both work perfect together.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/wave_redcine_x_06.jpg
Tanget Wave with Redcine-X both work perfect together.

Nils Ruinet
01-19-2010, 04:19 PM
I'm really excited about where this is going !

Build 54 kept crashing on my Macbook Pro, but the new builds seem to be working fine so far.

I'm very happy to see the new lift / gamma / gain tool.
The new sharpening tool seems to be very efficent without adding too many ugly artifacts.
I really like the look presets box. It would be nice to have folders in there.
Curves are fine, and I finally found out how to assign my own presets to the P1-P7 buttons...
The new colorspace and gamma seem to be great, you get more saturated images than before.

I still haven't figured out what the FLUT adjustment is doing exactly, compared to exposure or ISO sliders ? Did I miss that explanation somewhere ?

And I second David Battistella's requests :

What I'd like to see:

XML SUPPORT
Debayer control over render settings (I think it defaults to FULL)
List view in clip selection window
Flat 18% grey option in for GUI
STOPLIGHTS as in camera
ADD HANDLES feature for TIMELINE RENDERS
BETTER USE OF PROCESSORS FOR NON RED Rocket™™™™™™™™ RENDERS

R3D TRIM and SEND TO ARCHIVE TOOL (ask me about this and I'll explain further)

QUESTIONS
When do we get the NEW CAMERA BETA release?+ A dockable interface, similar to After Effects... All these floating boxes aren't very practical.

I have a feeling this could very well become a small and efficient grading app in the future... You already can do a lot with these few adjustments. Not every project needs secondaries.:smiley:

David Battistella
01-19-2010, 04:19 PM
You do have handles for clips on the timeline... just click on the clip there.

Jim

http://www.redgrabs.com/up/1263953762.png

I meant you could render the clips out of the timeline with handles. IE: The clip is 2 seconds in the timeline. Rendered with 10frame handles it would be 2:20. This is a great way to leave room for dissolves and compositing, etc.

Thanks for the reply. Looking forward to loading some basic looks in the camera when the next build is released.

David

Martin Weiss
01-19-2010, 04:20 PM
Ruairi,
I Get realtime playback at 1/8th on a meagre MBP. Definatly not slow (and definately progress)

David Battistella
01-19-2010, 04:22 PM
The main point is... why is redcine-X so bloody slow. Can we expect it to be optimized to achieve the same performance we already had with the old redcine or not?

This does not feel like progress to me, compared to the many other things that have taken giant leaps forward.

I'm not finding it slow at all...I think it is a MASSIVE step over REDCINE in many ways...and with a RR card it looks like a really great one-light solution.

David

David Rasberry
01-19-2010, 04:23 PM
Ruairi,
I Get realtime playback at 1/8th on a meagre MBP. Definatly not slow (and definately progress)

I second that. The Windows version 54 of RC-X performs much better on my Vista 64 laptop than the old Redcine ever did.

Nils Ruinet
01-19-2010, 04:25 PM
Exposure will move the white point... FLUT Control will not. If you are not clipped in RAW, you will never clip in FLUT.

Jim
Oh ok, got my answer :)
So why don't you just remove the exposure slider now ? Why would anyone still use it instead of FLUT ?

Andrae Palmer
01-19-2010, 04:25 PM
The main point is... why is redcine-X so bloody slow. Can we expect it to be optimized to achieve the same performance we already had with the old redcine or not?

This does not feel like progress to me, compared to the many other things that have taken giant leaps forward.

I agree... of course anyone is going to get realtime playback at 1/8, 1/4 or 1/16th on a decent computer. I would like to get at least 12fps playback at 1/2res (just like with redcine) and a playback buffer that goes beyond just a few seconds. If the playback buffer could hold more than just a few seconds... I would be satisfied with that. Why just five seconds buffering at 1/2 res?

Jannard
01-19-2010, 04:27 PM
Oh ok, got my answer :)
So why don't you just remove the exposure slider now ? Why would anyone still use it instead of FLUT ?

Someone may still have a use for it... but you will notice that we moved it to the bottom. We hope people will get the idea to move through the options from top to bottom.

Jim

Jannard
01-19-2010, 04:29 PM
Flut keeps the white point locked without burning out the image.

Its easier to see than to explain.

The main point is... why is redcine-X so bloody slow. Can we expect it to be optimized to achieve the same performance we already had with the old redcine or not?

This does not feel like progress to me, compared to the many other things that have taken giant leaps forward.

Did you try 84 as suggested today? It is significantly faster. This application is in development. Tuning for speed comes in intervals between adding features. Also... you can always go back to tools you like better until we get further along. We are just trying to keep our customers in the development loop. I can hear the sound of frustration in your post. Hope we can find a way to satisfy your needs in a short period of time.

Jim

Nils Ruinet
01-19-2010, 04:30 PM
Ruairi,
I Get realtime playback at 1/8th on a meagre MBP. Definatly not slow (and definately progress)
Same results here. 1/8 around realtime on a 2 year old MBP.

But I think the old RC was able to playback realtime at 1/4 resolution, so there is still a gap. Hopefully we'll get there, everybody hasn't bought a Redrocket yet...
In the meantime, being able to playback in RT at 1/8 is still not so bad.

Sanjin Jukic
01-19-2010, 04:32 PM
Now finally REDCINE-X gave us (for free thanks RED) an application that can be considered

as a small (and free) version of SCRATCH or even a little CLIPSTER (with RED Rocket card included).

It could be good to have on option to pull EDL's from FCP to REDCINE-X and then conform edit from that.

I know could be done with a help (next updates) of Clipfinder or Crimson but direct import of EDL into REDCINE-X

would be mostly appreciate from all RED users.

Or I could be wrong here...???!!!

Felix K.
01-19-2010, 04:34 PM
Thankyou for the Screenshots, Sanjin!
As a future owner (hopefully) it is hard to keep up with all the improvements.
How about some "Before/After" comparison? :)

Andrae Palmer
01-19-2010, 04:34 PM
Same results here. 1/8 around realtime on a 2 year old MBP.

But I think the old RC was able to playback realtime at 1/4 resolution, so there is still a gap. Hopefully we'll get there, everybody hasn't bought a Redrocket yet...
In the meantime, being able to playback in RT at 1/8 is still not so bad.

Redcine is capable of realtime at a 1/4 res and 12fps plus at 1/2 res. I was regularly getting 16fps at 1/2 res. Redcine-x is 4fps or less at 1/2 res very slow without a redrocket. Not so bad for mobile work though since 1/4 or 1/8 res is ok for smaller displays. As stated my main concern is not RT playback... but why can't the playback buffer go beyond five seconds at 1/2 res?

Harry Clark
01-19-2010, 04:36 PM
Jim,
I was asking about this on another thread, but I'll pose the question here too...
I'm looking for a little coaching in regards to the use of the FLUT adjustment. I was surprised at the strong change even a little move on the slider produced, and am just wondering what it's affecting other than the mids. (I understand that it will keep the highs from clipping) Also curious if it should be used as a first "broad stroke", before adjusting the curve etc. One of my favorite first steps is to lower the ISO a bit and work the curves from there. I hardly ever use the exposure and contrast sliders. Should I do my ISO first, the FLUT, then finesse with curves?
Any methodology that you'd care to share?
Cheers,
Harry

ps- in another thread, Mark Pederson asked for a split screen mode for grading. I think this would be great too! Not sure how possible it is to add in this stage of development...

Sanjin Jukic
01-19-2010, 04:38 PM
Thankyou for the Screenshots, Sanjin!
As a future owner (hopefully) it is hard to keep up with all the improvements.
How about some "Before/After" comparison? :)

You're welcome Felix!


About "Before/After" comparison, we are all still waiting for that, probably they will have time to show us something in that way next week...

Jannard
01-19-2010, 04:38 PM
As stated my main concern is not RT playback... but why can't the playback buffer go beyond five seconds at 1/2 res?

Because we haven't done that yet. :-)

Jim

Jannard
01-19-2010, 04:41 PM
Jim,
I was asking about this on another thread, but I'll pose the question here too...
I'm looking for a little coaching in regards to the use of the FLUT adjustment. I was surprised at the strong change even a little move on the slider produced, and am just wondering what it's affecting other than the mids. (I understand that it will keep the highs from clipping) Also curious if it should be used as a first "broad stroke", before adjusting the curve etc. One of my favorite first steps is to lower the ISO a bit and work the curves from there. I hardly ever use the exposure and contrast sliders. Should I do my ISO first, the FLUT, then finesse with curves?
Any methodology that you'd care to share?
Cheers,
Harry

ps- in another thread, Mark Pederson asked for a split screen mode for grading. I think this would be great too! Not sure how possible it is to add in this stage of development...

My recommendation is to leave ISO alone, use the FLUT slider (much more sensitive than ISO), then add your curve and whatever else you want last.

Jim

Andrae Palmer
01-19-2010, 04:41 PM
Because we haven't done that yet. :-)

Jim

I definitely understand you haven't done it yet. That's why I'm on here wondering why. Is it possible/forthcoming?

Harry Clark
01-19-2010, 04:42 PM
Thanks... I was feeling like the FLUT slider is the first step. I'll give it a whirl...
Cheers,
Harry

I Bloom
01-19-2010, 04:44 PM
A subtle but important difference, I need to dig up some footage with more dynamic range in the image.

http://www.ianbloom.com/Flut.jpg

Btw Jim,
Why the new "nice guy" avatar?

IBloom

Nils Ruinet
01-19-2010, 04:45 PM
Someone may still have a use for it... but you will notice that we moved it to the bottom. We hope people will get the idea to move through the options from top to bottom.

Jim
Haha ok, got it. :smile:

I'm going through old footage right now, trying to regrade it with the new tools, it's pretty amazing what you can achieve with just these tools actually.

Like Sanjin said, I'm really hoping for an XML / EDL / Pull list or whatever import feature that will make it possible to do a simple grade in Redcine...

Oh, and thank you for the Tangent Wave support, great news too...

Deanan
01-19-2010, 04:45 PM
As stated my main concern is not RT playback... but why can't the playback buffer go beyond five seconds at 1/2 res?

Quicktime.

Quicktime is 32bit and forces everything else to 32bit also.
We're in the process of pulling it out so we can move the main app to 64bit and have a much bigger buffer. Once we do that, it'll be almost as large as you have ram.

Dan Sturm
01-19-2010, 04:52 PM
Iso and FLUT are mathematically identical, FLUT just goes in .1 stop increments instead of thirds of a stop.

What i'd like to see is the toggle raw function on a keyboard shortcut like redcine used to have (F key).

Also I'd love to be able to make the Histogram larger

Thanks again Red boys.

Andrae Palmer
01-19-2010, 04:53 PM
Quicktime.

Quicktime is 32bit and forces everything else to 32bit also.
We're in the process of pulling it out so we can move the main app to 64bit and have a much bigger buffer. Once we do that, it'll be almost as large as you have ram.

Thank you Deanan... the playback buffering has gotten a lot better in the new build.

Harry Clark
01-19-2010, 04:54 PM
I did have one thought...
Next to each group of adjustments are two buttons, one for "default" and one for "metadata".
Could we add a third for "grade", much like in RedAlert!? Then one could toggle between "metadata" and "grade" for instance, to see how far you have worked the image.
Also, a checkbox that toggles "grade" on and off, like "Preview" in Photoshop, would be nice.
When making small adjustments, and working quickly, I find toggling between corrections helpful.
Cheers,
Harry

Deanan
01-19-2010, 04:56 PM
Haha ok, got it. :smile:

I'm going through old footage right now, trying to regrade it with the new tools, it's pretty amazing what you can achieve with just these tools actually.

Like Sanjin said, I'm really hoping for an XML / EDL / Pull list or whatever import feature that will make it possible to do a simple grade in Redcine...

Oh, and thank you for the Tangent Wave support, great news too...

We're enabling hooks for third parties to provide hooks for EDL/Conform/VFX pull, etc.

That way you'll have more choices as far as products and workflows supported rather than what we might implement.

Bruce Allen
01-19-2010, 04:56 PM
Quicktime.

Quicktime is 32bit and forces everything else to 32bit also.
We're in the process of pulling it out so we can move the main app to 64bit and have a much bigger buffer. Once we do that, it'll be almost as large as you have ram.

Yaay! Nuke that evil Quicktime :)

PS - hey Deanan, why didn't you ever tell me that REDCINE-X was coming back when I was sending you all those emails complaining about REDCINE ;) I would have kept a secret. It's my day job - I kept quiet about District 9 for a year and a half before it came out! And you wouldn't believe what I'm staying quiet about right now...

Anyway, lots of thanks - this is AWESOME!

Of course, I can't wait for a OpenCL / CUDA faster-than-realtime version, with OpenFX or After Effects plugin support (for my favorite noise reduction plugins) and/or secondaries... but seriously, thank you :grouphug:

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Jannard
01-19-2010, 04:57 PM
I definitely understand you haven't done it yet. That's why I'm on here wondering why. Is it possible/forthcoming?

There are a thousand things on our list... we just tick them off one at a time.

Jim

Deanan
01-19-2010, 04:58 PM
I did have one thought...
Next to each group of adjustments are two buttons, one for "default" and one for "metadata".
Could we add a third for "grade", much like in RedAlert!? Then one could toggle between "metadata" and "grade" for instance, to see how far you have worked the image.
Also, a checkbox that toggles "grade" on and off, like "Preview" in Photoshop, would be nice.
When making small adjustments, and working quickly, I find toggling between corrections helpful.
Cheers,
Harry

Maybe a toggle in the viewer but that could be more confusing?
Almost like a effects bypass button on a mixer :)

Andrae Palmer
01-19-2010, 05:00 PM
Yaay! Nuke that evil Quicktime :)

Hear, Hear!! What ever it takes to get this baby going faster. I have to spend thousands on storage and don't have the funds for a redrocket currently.

Sanjin Jukic
01-19-2010, 05:01 PM
With REDCINE-X I do have real time grading effects and playback on second monitor using the following hardware:

Hardware Overview:

Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro2,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 3 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per processor): 8 MB
Memory: 32 GB
Bus Speed: 1.33 GHz
Boot ROM Version: MP21.007F.B06
SMC Version (system): 1.15f3

RED Rocket™™:

Type: Video
Driver Installed: Yes
Bus: PCI
Slot: Slot-2
Vendor ID: 0x1a55
Device ID: 0x0070
Subsystem Vendor ID: 0x1a55
Subsystem ID: 0x0070
Revision ID: 0x0000
Link Width: x8
Link Speed: 2.5 GT/s

RED Rocket™™ HD-SDI outputs A+B

AJA Hi-5 3G HD-SDI inputs A+B>>HDMI output

HP DreamColor monitor with HDMI input

Tangent Wave panel

Medea Avid Video RAID 2TB

ATTO ExpressPCI UL5D:

Name: scsi
Type: SCSI Bus Controller
Driver Installed: Yes
Bus: PCI
Slot: Slot-4@4,4,1

NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT:

Name: NVDA,Display-B
Type: display
Driver Installed: Yes
Bus: PCI
Slot: Slot-1
Vendor ID: 0x10de
Device ID: 0x0602
Subsystem Vendor ID: 0x10de
Subsystem ID: 0x0010
ROM Revision: 3233
Revision ID: 0x00a2
Link Width: x8
Link Speed: 2.5 GT/s

Some parts of this set up are not the latest models (computer, RAID,...) but altogether it works flawless and fast.

Harry Clark
01-19-2010, 05:05 PM
Deanan,
I think a toggle in the viewer would work pretty well if it toggled between your grade and metadata.
The ultimate would be a history list like in Photoshop... but, sure, a nice toggle button would be fine for now ;)
Cheers,
Harry

Nils Ruinet
01-19-2010, 05:06 PM
We're enabling hooks for third parties to provide hooks for EDL/Conform/VFX pull, etc.

That way you'll have more choices as far as products and workflows supported rather than what we might implement.
Awesome. That's what I wanted to hear. :smiley:

Well then, Ian, Hans, get to work ! Let's go ! :biggrin5:

Nils Ruinet
01-19-2010, 05:10 PM
Deanan,
I think a toggle in the viewer would work pretty well if it toggled between your grade and metadata.
The ultimate would be a history list like in Photoshop... but, sure, a nice toggle button would be fine for now ;)
Cheers,
Harry
My vote goes to the toggle button too.

Oh and by the way, just wanted to make sure that a Cmd+Z Undo feature is also on the list... I really miss that one.

Deanan
01-19-2010, 05:14 PM
My vote goes to the toggle button too.

Oh and by the way, just wanted to make sure that a Cmd+Z Undo feature is also on the list... I really miss that one.

We have a better idea for undo :)

Nils Ruinet
01-19-2010, 05:48 PM
We have a better idea for undo :)
Hmmm... Can't wait to see that :-)

Deanan
01-19-2010, 06:43 PM
Is this Mac only at this point?

I am trying to install it on a PC unsuccessfully. I wanna try it!


The Windows version will be ready by Friday.

Stuart English
01-19-2010, 06:53 PM
Question, the "save look to camera" function is in RLK format which we could potentially load in camera soon as we have a new build ...

Correct, we can't enable this capability for Build 21 or earlier camera firmware as they don't include the new FLUT color science.

David Battistella
01-19-2010, 06:56 PM
Correct, we can't enable this capability for Build 21 or earlier camera firmware as they don't include the new FLUT color science.

Thanks Stuart,

Will there be new beta camera build for R1 with FLUT?

David

mikeburton
01-19-2010, 07:42 PM
How do we get an ALE out of the new REDCINE-X to get Avid MXF files into Media Composer?

Jannard
01-19-2010, 07:46 PM
http://www.redgrabs.com/up/1263975902.png

mikeburton
01-19-2010, 08:23 PM
http://www.redgrabs.com/up/1263975902.png

Sorry if this was meant for my previous question. Still don't quite understand where the ALE is generated or if its generated at all upon choosing an Avid MXF setting?

Jannard
01-19-2010, 08:30 PM
Sorry if this was meant for my previous question. Still don't quite understand where the ALE is generated or if its generated at all upon choosing an Avid MXF setting?

Deanan has updated my wrong info...

Jim

mikeburton
01-19-2010, 08:38 PM
You can transcode. That's it.

Jim

Got it, thanks. Will we be able to export ALE from REDCINE-X soon possibly?

Daniel Dacian
01-19-2010, 09:12 PM
Hmmm, just a thought,

but would it be possible to implement a keying feature??
I would love to be able to key the raw files before sending prores to fcp.

Thanks,
Daniel

Ryan E. Walters
01-19-2010, 10:14 PM
It would be great to be able to see false color represented in RedCine-X. That way I could go back and see what I saw on set with False Color to help me interpret using that exposure method better. So I could pull it up and say- "oh, that area was purple, and it is a little to dark for my liking, next time I would make that area grey, or blue - I need to compensate my exposure accordingly."

I also hope that at some point the histogram will be able to be resized. Other then that, I am really liking the direction this is heading. GREAT APP!

Several questions I have not found the answers to yet-
1. What are the "goal post meters" you are referring to- is that just on the camera side, or is it represented in this release of RedCine-X?

2. What is FLUT actually doing? When should I use it and why?

3. From what I understand, sharpening should be applied at the last stage of post- what is the purpose of having it in RedCine-X if this is true?

4. To get the most out of the R3D's, I should be using Redcolor, Redgamma, & white balance the image. Is there any other setting that is best applied to the R3D before I send it off for grading to an application like Color? Or it is best to use RedCine as THE PRIMARY room for grading and take it into the other programs for finessing?

C.H.Haskell
01-19-2010, 10:44 PM
I am working on a new FX TV series for Louis CK as DIT (Incredibly funny show by the way, shameless plug...look for it in March) so I happen to be sitting on some footage that the DP (who is new to RED) had mistakenly underexposed a few stops on one particular scene. Some folks were a little alarmed and I assured them we could save this, although even I had my doubts...it was dark! I should post this to show just how dramatic the difference was from the original R3D but I just downloaded this beta build REDCINE-X 82e and decided to dial around some settings and was extremely pleased with the results. I took an image that was damn near black and turn it into a fully lit scene, information and colors popped up out of no where and all concerns disappeared. Of course you never want to rely on this method but mistakes do happen. Shooting Ricky Gervais friday...more to come.

Still trying to figure out what flut is and how it works under the hood so I can take full advantage of this but its all clearly a huge step in the right direction.

Nice mug Jim, I dont know what happened to my Avatar...broke I suppose. If you could see it, then you would see the ear to ear grin I have from all recent developments.

Cheers.

Haskell

Deanan
01-19-2010, 11:29 PM
We'll be doing a new tutorial with Michael Phillips on the REDcineX workflow for MXF over the next few days. There's currently one for RocketcineX on avid.com/red

mikeburton
01-19-2010, 11:39 PM
We'll be doing a new tutorial with Michael Phillips on the REDcineX workflow for MXF over the next few days. There's currently one for RocketcineX on avid.com/red

Awesome! Deanan, will we find that tutorial at avid.red.com or here at reduser?

Stephen Gentle
01-20-2010, 12:57 AM
Hmmm, just a thought,

but would it be possible to implement a keying feature??
I would love to be able to key the raw files before sending prores to fcp.

Thanks,
Daniel

I didn't think this was a very good idea at first, but now I think about it, it would actually be really handy to be able to render out keyed video with an alpha channel. And you'd probably have more control if it could use the raw data too.

I think it would be great if we could get it as a plugin - say, Keylight for RC-X.

Robin Moran
01-20-2010, 01:58 AM
FLUT is nuts. You guys at RED are geniuses. Well done!

Simon Blackledge
01-20-2010, 02:19 AM
We have a better idea for undo :)

History ? :)

Would also like the option to set black bg in prefs to a usr selected grey level


Q: re:Dropping QT. Does that mean no more render to QT?


Si

Christopher Grant Harvey
01-20-2010, 03:42 AM
My feedback would be mostly positive, I hate complaining. I think it is great these tools are provided free of charge.

I would like to see a preview of where the burn-ins appear on the video itself before exporting (and during preview) so I can line it up exactly where I want it. Also where are the frame guides for 1.33:1, 1.85:1 and scope? And the cropping and blanking features of Redcine?

This is just fancy fancy stuff but a thumbnail on the batch monitor would help, you could see where an export is at a glance.

I am yet to understand the true power of FLUT. Not quite sure in what situation it is needed. Do we only use it to correct exposure or post tweak exposure?

As others have suggested an option to save custom UI workspace's.

If I have the preview window set to 1/8 1/4 1/16 does this effect the output at all?

Olivier Madar
01-20-2010, 04:01 AM
A big thanks to all the RedTeam. The dream is still alive !

Maybe a little bug : I can't do a snapshot in tiff (I get a readible but bad image). Anyone has tryed to output a tiff snapshot ?

Tim Whitcomb
01-20-2010, 07:23 AM
Wow, the new Red color Red Gamma makes things so much easier...and now the FLUT control makes total sense.

Deanan, this kicks ass, no wonder you don't sleep! Too exciting!

Daniel Dacian
01-20-2010, 07:27 AM
I didn't think this was a very good idea at first, but now I think about it, it would actually be really handy to be able to render out keyed video with an alpha channel. And you'd probably have more control if it could use the raw data too.

I think it would be great if we could get it as a plugin - say, Keylight for RC-X.

Yes, that was the idea, there would be a much higher level of control, because lets say we first lock the key in and then we are free to prepare our footage however we like. Instead of using RC-X only to prepare everything for the keying in another program.

Andrae Palmer
01-20-2010, 07:54 AM
Are all clips on the timeline dumped into memory?

Noticed that if one clip is on the timeline the playback caching is super fast at 1/4 res and the buffer is long... then the caching speed starts slowing down after each additional clip and the buffer is reduced to around five seconds.

David Battistella
01-20-2010, 08:30 AM
Hi,

One thing I would like to see in the timeline is a clearer definition between shots. I'm dealing with a lot of similar material this AM and it's difficult to see the "cut points".

Also, zooming into the timeline would be a nice feature to add as well.

Thanks,
David

Ryan E. Walters
01-20-2010, 09:03 AM
It would be great if it were possible to burn in reel, clip, and time code into the exported still frame. For the dailies, I'll have the DIT export out a reference frame from the circled takes and format them for my iPhone so that I have a reference on lighting, etc. Being able to see the reel, clip, and time code on the still would be helpful in this process to help identify the still since I can't read the title of the clip while viewing it on my iPhone.

Anson Fogel
01-20-2010, 09:35 AM
Thanks so much for such rapid progress on this new tool, for free!

Currently its not super easy to scrub through clips looking for the good ones - you can mouseover a clip and it plays, but you cant scrub it manually, and you have to load a clip into the timeline to fully scrub it. Still using Clipfinder to scrub but it sends clips to RA not RCX, and RCX is now sooooo close to being an all in one solution. A solution would be the ability to press a key and load a clip in the browser window into the player and scrub but NOT load it into the timeline or bin.

But we know your list is long and appreciate such a badass tool for free.

sander kamp
01-20-2010, 09:49 AM
REDCINE-X has potential to be a really nice application. However, at the moment I don't feel like using it yet. My main points are:

- The interface: the windows have no place and are just everywhere. Can windows at least have a closing button? Or how about tabs, different rooms or something to keep it all organized? A central space for the image would also be nice.
- Doing things feels kind of 'sticky', probably because it is going into caching all the time but it doesn't make for a smooth experience. Moving sliders, clicking buttons, even moving windows, it all takes too much time.
- I don't understand the FLUT control. What am I supposed to see? Now there is ISO, FLUT, Brightness, Curves and Exposure all effecting the brightness of the image.

Anyway, keep up the good work, I am sure it will be great in the end.

Paul Leeming
01-20-2010, 10:08 AM
Some feedback for the Red Team:

The Ugly: Though I imagine it's in the works, I'd really like to see the GUI refined and made more usable by allowing the panels to scale and getting rid of unnecessary real estate such as the honeycomb tops of most panels.

It also needs to remember the workspace settings as there's maybe ten or more panels and they always default to "scattered everywhere" when starting the program currently!

This all goes hand in hand with remembering that most people don't use 2560x1600 monitors. I'd say at an absolute minimum you need to support a layout at 1440x900 for MacBook Pros and 1920x1080 (or the more common 1920x1200) should be able to view everything with no shrinking of panels to fit, as this working resolution is what 90% of video professionals are likely to be editing with thanks to the HDTV standard.

Also remember your roots. RedCine original used the limited space of the screen in an elegant way - it had four main panels which acted like workspaces (and were easy to switch between) as well as a Player/Library delineation. RedCine-X seems to want to cram everything into one screen which leaves less room for the main event - the actual footage window!

The Bad: Stability and speed of course, though I know this is early beta stuff. Mac vs PC build lag. Not a new cry but in this day and age of common codebases I'd like to see it happen close to simultaneously. No RedRocket support on the PC side that I am aware of (within Redcine-X; I'm aware of Scratch and other high end solutions for those with money to burn).

The Good (nay, GREAT!): Saved the best for last of course! The new colour science is AMAZING and well worth putting up with the pain of early beta status. All that stuff I mentioned above? I know that will all get fixed some day, but right now I can bring in old footage from two years ago and it looks far better than it used to! The power of recording to RAW is your ace in the hole. Can't wait for build 22 or whatever number gives me the import of Redcine-X's camera LOOK file. That will truly be another huge step forward for the clients.

Lastly, a question - What would be the best equivalent export format on the Windows side (for bringing into Premiere Pro CS4) to the Mac side's ProRes4444 MOV export (for FCP)? Exporting TIFF or DPX, whilst visually perfect and 4K capable, takes up a LOT of space and requires an additional step down the chain of putting it all back together as an audio/video asset, not to mention it often loses all the metadata such as timecode, frame number etc.

The reason I ask is that Adobe is taking forever to get up to date with improvements in colour science (no support even for build 20 colour yet!) and I want to pre-grade with greater precision in RedCine-X so I can just put graded clips onto the timeline.

In an ideal future scenario though, the SDK would support RedCine-X's LOOK format and metadata in other applications so I could use RedCine-X to grade a shot, save the resulting LOOK file alongside it and have Premiere Pro (or FCP if you're Mac based) recognise and use it automatically. Round tripping EDL's for extra points!

Thanks for listening as always Red!

Cheers,

Paul

John Jonathan
01-20-2010, 12:11 PM
I am wondering how RED is going to implement CDL (Color Decision List) in the future? I am thinking primary color grades in REDCINE-X, export CDL and use that to start a final grade after an edit.

Ian Laurie
01-20-2010, 12:18 PM
Can quicktime-x not be used instead?

Chris Parker
01-20-2010, 12:33 PM
I am wondering how RED is going to implement CDL (Color Decision List) in the future? I am thinking primary color grades in REDCINE-X, export CDL and use that to start a final grade after an edit.

that sure would be nice......my biggest concern with the new X-originated material is that REDCine-X will be the ONLY application that can deal with it. This would cause productions to shy away from using cameras with the new sensor until it did not mess with the currently established post workflow solutions. In particular, final grading, if unable to conform and go back to RAW RED like most now do, would be a stumbling block in this new format's early acceptance.

David Battistella
01-20-2010, 12:45 PM
that sure would be nice......my biggest concern with the new X-originated material is that REDCine-X will be the ONLY application that can deal with it. This would cause productions to shy away from using cameras with the new sensor until it did not mess with the currently established post workflow solutions. In particular, final grading, if unable to conform and go back to RAW RED like most now do, would be a stumbling block in this new format's early acceptance.

Hey Chris,

You guys have a Scratch system over there at SIM don't you? PLus I am pretty sure pablo already supports the new M-X since I think it was playing off of a Pablo at RED day.

It all depends on how fast the NEW SDK gets into people's hands to be able to integrate the R3D in their software packages. But there isn't even a camera build yet so that will be a tough choice.

I think that until then any footage we do shoot right now can benefit from M-X technology in REDCINE-X which is a good thing. If they could jam that into all the post tools before a camera release that would be sweet.

My old footage has never looked so good!


David



David

mikeburton
01-20-2010, 01:00 PM
I suppose that by the time cameras are being released to the majority of users with M-X installed that the tools will be properly in place. Its always the early adopters that will have to transform their way of working to accommodate the lack of software support which I assume won't be an issue for long. Its also those same early adopters that make money from that inconvenience as well by figuring out how best to work around those shortcomings. Directors and DOP's will want to shoot with the best tool they can and as long as there is A solution to post it they will encourage their post team to adapt as well. Why? Cause its the post house job to adapt and make it work. If it costs more well, that's all part of the pre-production planning.
Remember, RED is more aware now of what people in production and post production need for their workflows to be seamless and have bent over backwards to try to accommodate all parties. From what I've heard, Assimilate is already showing M-X footage in their system and Pablo as well. I think RED will make the necessary adjustments to get the new tools into existing workflows before this becomes a wide spread issue as I'm sure they have learned their lesson from past experience.

David Battistella
01-20-2010, 01:11 PM
I suppose that by the time cameras are being released to the majority of users with M-X installed that the tools will be properly in place. Its always the early adopters that will have to transform their way of working to accommodate the lack of software support which I assume won't be an issue for long. Its also those same early adopters that make money from that inconvenience as well by figuring out how best to work around those shortcomings. Directors and DOP's will want to shoot with the best tool they can and as long as there is A solution to post it they will encourage their post team to adapt as well. Why? Cause its the post house job to adapt and make it work. If it costs more well, that's all part of the pre-production planning.
Remember, RED is more aware now of what people in production and post production need for their workflows to be seamless and have bent over backwards to try to accommodate all parties. From what I've heard, Assimilate is already showing M-X footage in their system and Pablo as well. I think RED will make the necessary adjustments to get the new tools into existing workflows before this becomes a wide spread issue as I'm sure they have learned their lesson from past experience.

Nice post Mike. Agreed. BUT. It does add a lot of stress to production when there is only one option. For any long form project, the tools to create daillies exists today and by the time the finsihing comes around then the tools "should" be in place, but not all productions want that kind of gamble.

It can be a very conservative crowd, but I think RED knows this by now.

David

mikeburton
01-20-2010, 02:09 PM
Nice post Mike. Agreed. BUT. It does add a lot of stress to production when there is only one option. For any long form project, the tools to create daillies exists today and by the time the finsihing comes around then the tools "should" be in place, but not all productions want that kind of gamble.

It can be a very conservative crowd, but I think RED knows this by now.

David

Agreed, David. Its never going to be a perfect world although we would like it to be so :-) I fully understand working in the post world how frustrating only ONE option would be for a post company or individuals to have to deal with. And yes, we are in a very conservative business. BUT, I would say that the pros will outweigh the cons in this scenario IMO. Obviously, if the necessary finishing tools such as Quantel, Assimilate, Lustre Baselight, Iridas etc can't support M-X footage for a while that would be a determining factor for possibly not adopting the new system but like I mentioned, I don't see that as being a reality based off of RED's determination to make their new cameras and sensor a success. I fully believe that we will see the necessary support for the post community in a reasonable amount of time so it won't be a question for anyone accept the early adopters, and we all know that the pros outweigh the cons in their situation both from a Marketing, and financial scenario.

Jeremy Neish
01-20-2010, 02:27 PM
Love it. Though I agree with some of the previous comments regarding palette control.

A huge request: please please please, steal the HSL controls from Lightroom. I've been doing a lot of wedding photography tweaking for my wife lately, and these are far and away my favorite color correction controls EVER.

http://www.redhelp.net/wiki/images/redhelp/LR_HSL.gif

Here's a video of me using those controls:
http://www.belladayphotography.com/tutorials/Lightroom_for_REDUser_h264.mov

Eric Rainey
01-20-2010, 05:53 PM
Love the new REDgamma and FLUT Control!!!!! I have a really dumb question and looked to see if it had been asked....didn't see it in this thread. I am trying to export what I have in the timeline/clip in player and I go through the motions of exporting, by hitting export. The exported clip comes up in "Batch Monitor" but nothing happens....it stays at 0%. I am probably missing something, but is anybody else having this problem?

I am on build 84

Rob Lohman
01-20-2010, 07:25 PM
Not a new cry but in this day and age of common codebases I'd like to see it happen close to simultaneously. No RedRocket support on the PC side that I am aware of.

It is on a common code base. Most of us internally are using Mac, so it was just build & verified first. We immediately build the Windows version but there was a specific issue with that which is getting fixed right now.

Windows version fully supports Rocket!


In an ideal future scenario though, the SDK would support RedCine-X's LOOK format and metadata in other applications so I could use RedCine-X to grade a shot, save the resulting LOOK file alongside it and have Premiere Pro (or FCP if you're Mac based) recognise and use it automatically.

We use the SDK internally for all our products. It will support the look format and everything will be available to SDK subscribers. They of course need a certain amount of time to integrate the new stuff on their end.

David Cox
01-20-2010, 08:59 PM
Two things:

1. The toggle for Rocket Setting pops up and needs an extra "ok" click to pass it to the card. It also forgets the last setting to Enable PSF and one has to check it again each time. I would be nice to toggle to Rocket and back with one click and be able to pull up settings with another tab.

2. The histogram function does not operate when in Rocket view.

Nice work guys!

Jeff Kilgroe
01-20-2010, 09:50 PM
Most, probably all, of what I'm going to add here is repeat, but this is what I want to see most and what issues I'm having:

* Needs to have a way to save the interface layout. Would be nice to create multiple configs, but let's start with at least saving our window positions.

* Less wasted space. As cool as the window headers are, they're wasting pixels. Would like to expand and collapse windows to tabs and have other means of consolidating. Really liked the mouse gesture features in old REDCINE to push and pull panels on or off the display.

* Clip browser window can't be re-sized beyond a certain width/height. Kinda annoying if I pull it over to a second display and want to make it bigger. than what it currently allows.

* Histogram completely disappears when the Rocket monitor output is enabled.

* Playback is slow with the Rocket. ROCKETCINE played back clips smooth as butter at full res, full debayer. REDCINE-X is giving me only 17-19fps on 4K RC36 playback at full res/quality and I'm reading the clips from both a ~300MB/s RAID and a ~550MB/s RAID. 4xHD mode can also be a bit slow, 4K 2:1 usually is fine. 3K and 2K modes are like butter.

Ryan S
01-20-2010, 10:03 PM
I'll admit I'm a complete amateur in the colour department, but I'm learning. Redcolor and Redgamma are great- the colour just seems to pop in a way I haven't seen before. However, it's the FLUT control that's really impressing me. I'm not entirely sure what it's doing, but it's doing it well!

Deanan
01-21-2010, 12:02 AM
Can quicktime-x not be used instead?

It's half baked and pretty much unusable for anything requiring more than basic control over quicktime creation.

Deanan
01-21-2010, 12:05 AM
that sure would be nice......my biggest concern with the new X-originated material is that REDCine-X will be the ONLY application that can deal with it. This would cause productions to shy away from using cameras with the new sensor until it did not mess with the currently established post workflow solutions. In particular, final grading, if unable to conform and go back to RAW RED like most now do, would be a stumbling block in this new format's early acceptance.

REDcineX is the first app out.
RocketcineX will be released also with new color support.
The SDK will be released early next week.
A couple of 3rd party apps are using the new MX SDK and have betas out there.

Deanan
01-21-2010, 12:07 AM
Two things:

1. The toggle for Rocket Setting pops up and needs an extra "ok" click to pass it to the card. It also forgets the last setting to Enable PSF and one has to check it again each time. I would be nice to toggle to Rocket and back with one click and be able to pull up settings with another tab.

2. The histogram function does not operate when in Rocket view.

Nice work guys!

In Rocket monitor output mode, no images can go back to the card simultaneously (decoding full 4k is too intensive). We're looking at alternative methods to get it going simultaneously.

Paul Leeming
01-21-2010, 12:36 AM
It is on a common code base. Most of us internally are using Mac, so it was just build & verified first. We immediately build the Windows version but there was a specific issue with that which is getting fixed right now.

Windows version fully supports Rocket!
Thanks for your reply Rob, it's much appreciated. I think this might be the first time there has been a mention of RedRocket working with Red software on the Windows side of the fence (pls correct me if I'm wrong).

Looking forward to testing the new Redcine-X on my PC!

Cheers,

Paul

Stephen Gentle
01-21-2010, 01:40 AM
Can quicktime-x not be used instead?

There is a unified, 64 bit interface that can control both Quicktime 7 and Quicktime X called QTKit, but as Rob said, the current release of Quicktime-X isn't very full featured, so it'd be using Quicktime 7 anyway. Also, QTKit is only available on Mac OS X at the current time as far as I know, which is a problem for cross-platform applications.

Hopefully there'll be a new version of Quicktime-X released around the time that the next version of Final Cut Studio is released. I'd expect that Apple want to move to the new platform as soon as possible.

Joe Shemesh
01-21-2010, 02:42 AM
Deanan,
Any idea why when pulling a clip filmed over last few days, onto the timeline in RC-X I get no audio, yet when I choose older clips ie filmed months ago - audio plays fine?

best
joe

Deanan
01-21-2010, 03:25 AM
Deanan,
Any idea why when pulling a clip filmed over last few days, onto the timeline in RC-X I get no audio, yet when I choose older clips ie filmed months ago - audio plays fine?

best
joe

Try setting the camera playback channels to 3/4.

Satsuki Murashige
01-21-2010, 03:48 AM
Hi everyone, this is my first post. I'm an AC/DMT up in the SF Bay Area, and am a regular on the "other" forum. Hope that doesn't hurt my reception over here. :wink5:

A good portion of my work is with the Red camera and my main tool of choice for on-set review and post work has thus far been Redcine. I'm usually working off my 17" MBP screen, with a 23" ACD for non-mobile stuff. My work is mainly corporate, industrial, commercial, and shorts.

What I like best about Redcine is the interface:
- It maximizes the image window for a single screen.
- All clips from a roll immediately import into the timeline for quick review.
- Separate tabs for Project/Shot, etc. keeps the interface uncluttered.
- The format/scaling/framing tools are excellent - detailed, elegant and visually intuitive.

As you might guess, these are the things I find problematic with Redcine-X:
- The window layout is cluttered - I'm spending too much time moving around or closing the multitude of windows rather than working. Also, now you really need a 2nd monitor to view the image at a workable size, not something you always want or are able to do.

- The format/scaling/framing tool is dumbed down - we've lost the visual feedback of the different scaling options. This makes it harder to see if you've made a dumb mistake until the clip has rendered out, way too late.

For example: I was doing a test grade from a mix of 4K 16:9, 4KHD 16:9, 3K 2:1 footage, all from the same job (don't ask). I couldn't see that the 3K 2:1 footage was being squeezed anamorphically into 16:9 because there were no frame guides and Fit tab in the Framing window was not giving me feedback in the Display window. I only discovered my mistake after rendering the clip out.

- The new timeline is clunky - it's hard to tell the separate shots apart at a glance when you just want to jump back and forth from shot to shot. Also, it doesn't scale all the way out so the whole timeline from start to end fits on a single screen. Not so bad when you've only got a few short clips, but it would be really annoying to have to scroll through 20+ minutes of long and short takes to find and grade shot to shot.

- It doesn't seem like you can save multiple grades at the moment, though I suspect you guys are going to fix that.

- No undo Command-Z, History, or Grade On/Off toggle function.

- Build 84 is crashing in the middle of every Export render after the first successful one. Not sure why. I'm running OS 10.5.8 on a MBP 3,1 2.4GHz with 4GB ram. Reading/writing from and to the internal 7200RPM 320GB drive (with over 50% free). Rendering 5 clips of about 10-30 seconds each to ProRes422 1080P. It worked the first time, but continues to crash about 15 minutes into the render every time I try again with a different grade. I've tried rebooting, but no dice.

As for the new Redcolor/Red Gamma:
I typically view on set in Rec 709, which means we are lighting to this gamma. I've found that the Camera RGB/Rec 709 combo (with added color sat. and contrast) gives the closest approximation of the on set look while still having some leeway to grade. It seems to have a pretty smooth linear tonality, which is nice and gentle on skin tones.

While replacing Camera RGB with Redcolor seems to work fine (I'm just adding less color sat. in post), Red Gamma makes the image much more contrasty, pushing the mids way up - it's a "look" for sure, but it's not accurate to what we saw on set. I think if you've shot and lit for Rec 709, then Red Gamma is the wrong way to go. I guess if we can view in Red Gamma on Build 22, then it may be an option at that point, but I just don't see how it can be used with footage that has already been lit and exposed for a different gamma. It's almost like a "Kodak Vision Premier" LUT or something (after you've gotten used to seeing dailies on regular Vision stock), but more extreme.

FLUT is an excellent tool, great job there. Sorry for the epic first post...

Joe Shemesh
01-21-2010, 04:14 AM
Try setting the camera playback channels to 3/4.

Have tried this and still no joy Deanan

best
joe

Ash Bolland
01-21-2010, 08:47 AM
I don't post much, But we use Redcine everyday and since its been taken down this is pretty important to us...

Redcine was one of the main reasons why we got a Red one in the first place- a great example of how 4k is possible on a desktop - its has been a major part of our workflow... but now its gone! We want it back..

FLUT is interesting, color wheels are great.

but The X Interface is terrible, not only with design, but also with work-flow esp on set with a mac book pro, it really does feel like a consumer imovie/ired app... our hands hurt after using it for 30 min...

We don't need edit tools - We just need RT playback and some light colour correct and fast export... the yellow load bar is very annoying every few secs!

Redcine was the way to go.. Please bring the interface and RT back...
That interface was very well thought out and there is no reason to bail it!

We don't need textures behind panels or 1990's floating panels - keep with the strong simple clean grid system interface and the old code for RT not ram buffer stuff :)


thx
Ash

David Rasberry
01-21-2010, 09:05 AM
Add my vote for the cleaner interface look of the old Redcine.

I am playing the Win build 54 version of RC-X. Very happy to have a version that will export cleanly from my Radeon equipped laptop. Redcine never did that.

Thanks

Jannard
01-21-2010, 10:13 AM
Couple of notes...

1. REC 709 throws info away that REDgamma keeps.

2. The U/I has been scheduled for a clean up AFTER we get everything working. I think you will like where it will go.

3. Camera RGB is not accurate. REDcolor is.

Jim

Andrae Palmer
01-21-2010, 11:06 AM
I don't post much, But we use Redcine everyday and since its been taken down this is pretty important to us...

Redcine was one of the main reasons why we got a Red one in the first place- a great example of how 4k is possible on a desktop - its has been a major part of our workflow... but now its gone! We want it back..

FLUT is interesting, color wheels are great.

but The X Interface is terrible, not only with design, but also with work-flow esp on set with a mac book pro, it really does feel like a consumer imovie/ired app... our hands hurt after using it for 30 min...

We don't need edit tools - We just need RT playback and some light colour correct and fast export... the yellow load bar is very annoying every few secs!

Redcine was the way to go.. Please bring the interface and RT back...
That interface was very well thought out and there is no reason to bail it!

We don't need textures behind panels or 1990's floating panels - keep with the strong simple clean grid system interface and the old code for RT not ram buffer stuff :)


thx
Ash

Hear, hear... regarding RT playback. The clean interface of Redcine was cool but the number one thing I miss is RT playback at 1/4 res and 16fps at 1/2 res. IDK why it was EOL... especially now that we only have a alpha beta to rely on and to make it worse the alpha beta is extremely slow.

Cüneyt Kaya
01-21-2010, 11:11 AM
I don't post much, But we use Redcine everyday and since its been taken down this is pretty important to us...

Redcine was one of the main reasons why we got a Red one in the first place- a great example of how 4k is possible on a desktop - its has been a major part of our workflow... but now its gone! We want it back..

FLUT is interesting, color wheels are great.

but The X Interface is terrible, not only with design, but also with work-flow esp on set with a mac book pro, it really does feel like a consumer imovie/ired app... our hands hurt after using it for 30 min...

We don't need edit tools - We just need RT playback and some light colour correct and fast export... the yellow load bar is very annoying every few secs!

Redcine was the way to go.. Please bring the interface and RT back...
That interface was very well thought out and there is no reason to bail it!

We don't need textures behind panels or 1990's floating panels - keep with the strong simple clean grid system interface and the old code for RT not ram buffer stuff :)


thx
Ash

maybe scratchcine is the app for you? its the stable big brother of redcine, but costs some dollars

Andrae Palmer
01-21-2010, 11:14 AM
maybe scratchcine is the app for you? its the stable big brother of redcine, but costs some dollars

What is the app for the low budget cinematographer that currently cannot afford a redrocket? Redcine fitted that user base perfectly.

Cüneyt Kaya
01-21-2010, 11:19 AM
What is the app for the low budget cinematographer that currently cannot afford a redrocket?

premiere pro?
clipfinder?
red alert?
redcine?---it not on the support page anymore, but somone who used it will probably have it, right :)
Proxies?

i hope i got your question right.

Andrae Palmer
01-21-2010, 11:20 AM
premiere pro?
clipfinder?
red alert?
redcine?---it not on the support page anymore, but somone who used it will probably have it, right :)
Proxies?

i hope i got your question right.

Those apps do not currently support camera firmware Build 21 or the MX sensor upgrade. The main issue is RT playback with the same functionality as Redcine. Redcine supports up to Build 20. Premiere Pro doesn't even support Build 20. Redalert is not the same program as Redcine. Having to transcode to proxies to get a decent playback is one step backwards and a slow process compared to the toolset we already had (Redcine). Clipfinder is not the same program as Redcine (lack of RT and clean interface).

Gunleik Groven
01-21-2010, 11:25 AM
Clipfinder is the current swiss-armyknife. High quality result. XML integration with FCP/Color. "next-newest" color wizardry. Just works very well for both barch-proxy-creation and putting files online as DPXs (or prores 4444, if that's within what you desire).

Love it!

Hope Hans Georg gets his hands on the new SDK as soon as it is ready to give out!
You CAN correct clips just from in to out...

Cüneyt Kaya
01-21-2010, 11:28 AM
Those apps do not currently support camera firmware Build 21 or the MX sensor upgrade. The main issue is RT playback with the same functionality as Redcine.

now i got it, ok with build 21 you have a point, but as long as MX is not in my camera i dont need a post solution for that.

guess we are back in the nobody knows how to online times :)
which, i am sure will not last longer than a couple of weeks.

and guess the post soulutions (three As and what is their name, should move their ass, if they want us customers to be happy)

Andrae Palmer
01-21-2010, 11:33 AM
and guess the post soulutions (three As and what is their name, should move their ass, if they want us customers to be happy)

I hope so... Tell Apple you want RED support!!!
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40059

Jean-Charles Wolfarth
01-21-2010, 12:08 PM
Don't forget that most of the apps you're talking about are Mac-only. Red is doing a lot of efforts to please everyone though.

Rob Lohman
01-21-2010, 12:37 PM
Build 84 is crashing in the middle of every Export render after the first successful one. Not sure why. I'm running OS 10.5.8 on a MBP 3,1 2.4GHz with 4GB ram. Reading/writing from and to the internal 7200RPM 320GB drive (with over 50% free). Rendering 5 clips of about 10-30 seconds each to ProRes422 1080P. It worked the first time, but continues to crash about 15 minutes into the render every time I try again with a different grade. I've tried rebooting, but no dice.

Hi Satsuki, welcome aboard!

Can you please email the crash log, as well as the Redcine-x log (it's in your home folder under Library/Application Support/Red/RedCineX/Logs), to rob_at_red.com?

Harry Clark
01-21-2010, 12:49 PM
Just my two cents but...
I don't miss Redcine at all. The worst UI I have ever seen. SOOOOO not intuitive.
I always liked RedAlert! and now I'm digging Redcine-X. BIG improvement.
Cheers,
Harry

David Battistella
01-21-2010, 12:52 PM
Red also has to provide the sdk. Which deanan says will be out like, next week. Right on red!!!

Rob loman has also stated new qt codec is forthcoming.

Miles ahead. This is great.

Paul Leeming
01-21-2010, 01:14 PM
I would say that until Redcine-X is moderately sorted out, the original Redcine should be reinstated on the Red Support page.

Better yet, incorporate the new colour science into it as a kind of "last hurrah" to at least have a stable app whilst the newcomer matures into something beautiful.

I imagine that would please 99% of us here and allow new clients to continue to use Red software without a thousand questions to those of us trying to support the camera's changing goal posts. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the changing goal posts as the new colour science is amazing, but right now we are being put into the position of telling clients to use software that really is too early in the beta phase to be realistically used on productions. It's fine for testing as long as we have Redcine (original) to fall back on when things go wrong.

Sure, we have it on our USB keychains and give it to all our clients, but the newcomers (the ones who need the most stable workflow) are the very ones who will be most negatively impacted by it (and who are the ones who will ask why a two year old camera system doesn't have stable tools). This seems antithetical to all Red has achieved thus far at a time where the next generation of cameras are creating a lot of new interest in the Red way of doing things.

Just my 2 yen :)

Cheers,

Paul

Carlo Rho
01-21-2010, 02:25 PM
Hi Reds, I've recived my Rocket couple of weeks ago and I'm trying to use it with Redcine-X 84. I like the Flut idea but I didn't use enough to judge it, first feeling is really positive.

I've got some issues:
1. I tried to render out to H264, many times with different settings and I always got this kind of results (Pic 1) ProRes422HQ came out just fine.

2. I tried to export the clips in timeline as divided clips with their original names but I can't. I can only obtain one single long clip (and I have to chose its name), impossible to have separate sub-folders, where am I wrong? Or is just not possible now? (used settings in pic 2)

3. I do not understand how to select and put in timeline multiple clips at same time, is it possible? I can select only as much as I can see without scrolling in the Clip Selection window and they do not appear in the timeline following their name order (at least if you have more than 1 column of thumbnails in Clip Selection). I tried to select and put on timeline 20+ clips but this is the perfect way to crash the app.

4. The time indication above the frames of the timeline do not refresh fine when scrolling, actually some time it did not show up (Pic 3).

5. Render time are a bit different, RocketcineX is definitely faster:
I run some test on our 2x2.8GHz Quad-Core / 8GB DDR2 reading on external e-sata 7200rpm drive and writing on a second internal drive (not the drive of the OSX). But who cares we're flying on the Rocket!
I did a classic transcode 4K 16:9 RC36 to Apple ProRes422HQ 1080x1920

Clip 1
1103 Frames // Running Time: 44"
Render Time in Redcine-X 56"
Render Time in Rocketcine-X 48"

Clip 2
4953 Frames // Running Time: 3'18"
Render Time in Redcine-X 4'13"
Render Time in Rocketcine-X 3'31"

Clip 3
11062 Frames // Running Time: 7'22"
Render Time in Redcine-X 9'38"
Render Time in Rocketcine-X 7'48"

A couple of things more:
Any idea of the timing for a Rocketcine-X build with Flut?
I second the idea of simplify the UI of RedcineX for better use on Laptop screens, we'll wait for it.
Is in the plans to have a realtime Histogram during playback? Bigger???

Anyway thanks for the Flut and the RedcineX and the Rocket, now it's a better work. I hated all the time I've lost looking to REDrushes!

Jannard
01-21-2010, 04:15 PM
I would say that until Redcine-X is moderately sorted out, the original Redcine should be reinstated on the Red Support page.

Just my 2 yen :)

Cheers,

Paul

There will be no more support for REDCINE. Our best effort is to tune up REDCINE-X as quickly as possible... and update ROCKETcine-X. It makes no sense to take resources off REDCINE-X to resurrect REDCINE and then be further behind on the app of the future.

Everyone is working pretty hard on this.

Jim

Matthew Yaeger
01-21-2010, 04:57 PM
Carlo Rho,
Here are a couple things you can try:


1. I tried to render out to H264, many times with different settings and I always got this kind of results (Pic 1) ProRes422HQ came out just fine.
In the Quicktime Compression settings dialog (accessible from the Export Settings dialog) increase the value in the "Limit data rate to" field. Alternatively you can disable the option as a test. With a larger data rate or a non-limited data rate you should not get those artifacts in H264.


2. I tried to export the clips in timeline as divided clips with their original names but I can't. I can only obtain one single long clip (and I have to chose its name), impossible to have separate sub-folders, where am I wrong? Or is just not possible now? (used settings in pic 2)

This action can be done from the bin but not from the timeline.
Step 1: Put the clips you want to export separately into a bin
Step 2: Set the "Export To:" drop down to either "bin (all clips)" or "bin (selected clips)"
Step 3: Choose your export preset with "Sub-folder per clip" selected.
Step 4: click Export


3. I do not understand how to select and put in timeline multiple clips at same time, is it possible? I can select only as much as I can see without scrolling in the Clip Selection window and they do not appear in the timeline following their name order (at least if you have more than 1 column of thumbnails in Clip Selection). I tried to select and put on timeline 20+ clips but this is the perfect way to crash the app.

Click in the file browser or a bin and press Apple/command + A on the keyboard to select all clips.
You can also Apple/command + mouse click on each clip you want to select.

Carlo Rho
01-21-2010, 05:56 PM
Trying...
QT H.264
Setup: no Limit Data Rate, 25 fps & Key frame every 5, Frame Reordering & Single-Pass checked. Quality Medium.

1st->
2 clips in Bin 1, 1103+2683 frames, C001 and C002 of the same .RDM
RCX Build 84 crash at 99% of the first clip rendered, C002.

Hey RED is it useful for you to send you the crash automatic report from OS-X or not?

2nd->
Everything the same but I rendered C001 and then C002 everything works fine.

Rob Lohman
01-21-2010, 06:39 PM
Carlo: we know about the export crash, it's been fixed for the next build that we're testing internally right now

Carlo Rho
01-21-2010, 06:41 PM
Thanks Rob, It's fine I'm just playing my RED Rocket™™ and I know it's a beta version.
I would love to have R1/RedcineX/RocketcineX stable build with Flut, my 2 R1 upgraded to M-X and my 1st EpicX in customs waiting for VAT payment but this is January, not May!
I think that the only big issues with this software are:
- UI, needs to be savable, less head on the windows and custom presets for Laptops with only 1 screen, I'm on 1 CinemaDisplay 23" moving windows all the time.
- I would really like a real time Histogram, playing with the clip. Is that impossible?

As concern rendering times, crashes & UI errors like the timeline time or the Detail window (Pic 1), I know all this issues will be solved just a matter of time, on this I'm not in a hurry!
I know you've got the right engine from sensor to post, it just need to be tuned, but the interface it's an other game.

I prefer to have REDcolor/REDgamma & Flut stable on RocketcineX before everything else!
I need to render good DPX/ProRes/DNxHD clips today! I need the skills to pay the bills!
I'll be a better filmmaker tomorrow.

Yann Bouzerand
01-21-2010, 07:14 PM
i m trying to export manually some vfx shot from Redcine x, i ve got the edl to copy the in and out, but it uses TOD timecode, how can i set those in redcine x ?

Carlo Rho
01-21-2010, 07:21 PM
Now my detail window works just fine... :hurray:
I love Betas... so funny for free days...

Bastiaan Houtkooper
01-22-2010, 02:08 AM
I am not sure it has been reported yet but I am not going to wade through 14 pages.

Bug:
Tangent Wave with firmware 1.0 connected to RedCine-X B84
Moving the level buttons, (Big round flat ones) there is no correction on the image, only when I touch the "balls" it jumps to the setting I previously set them.

It seems they are not in the checking for change loop.

Satsuki Murashige
01-22-2010, 02:15 AM
Hi Satsuki, welcome aboard!

Can you please email the crash log, as well as the Redcine-x log (it's in your home folder under Library/Application Support/Red/RedCineX/Logs), to rob_at_red.com?
Thank you Rob, just emailed you.

Satsuki Murashige
01-22-2010, 03:42 AM
Couple of notes...

1. REC 709 throws info away that REDgamma keeps.

2. The U/I has been scheduled for a clean up AFTER we get everything working. I think you will like where it will go.

3. Camera RGB is not accurate. REDcolor is.

Jim
Thanks for addressing my concerns Jim.

Could you please clarify #1? What info is being thrown away in Rec 709 gamma? My main concern is the difference in look (see attachment).

(BTW, sorry for not using Redcolor but I had already graded this shot in Camera RGB/709 and did not have time to redo it. I've left the other shots in RGB so as to compare apples to apples.)

#2 is my preferred grade. The only difference between #2 and #3 is Red Gamma, otherwise the grades are identical. You can see how Red Gamma greatly increases contrast in the midtones. I found it difficult to get back to the look of #2 without going into Curves, which I'd prefer not to do because it tends to take more time.

Now, #3 is a not bad look at all, but it is not what we shot. I would have a hard time showing this to the DP and saying "this is the shot." When the time comes when we can monitor on set in Red Gamma, then I think it will be a great step forward. But in the meantime, I would have a hard time selling it.

Paul Leeming
01-22-2010, 04:03 AM
There will be no more support for REDCINE. Our best effort is to tune up REDCINE-X as quickly as possible... and update ROCKETcine-X. It makes no sense to take resources off REDCINE-X to resurrect REDCINE and then be further behind on the app of the future.

Everyone is working pretty hard on this.

Jim
Thanks for your reply Jim. I knew writing it that there wasn't much chance of any further updates to Redcine.

What is more important is just getting Redcine build 20.0.0 back on your website so new clients etc can download it and have a stable app to grade on with current build footage (ie. build 21.4.1). I'm giving it to my clients from a USB keychain I always carry with me, but not everyone will have that advantage.

As always, thankyou for taking time out to answer our criticisms :)

Cheers from Tokyo,

Paul

Paul Leeming
01-22-2010, 04:18 AM
Bug report for Redcine-X build 54 on PC:

Selecting Full Screen option gets rid of the program border and top menus, but there's no apparent way to bring it back again! And weirdly enough, although the panels don't remember their position, the full screen option does which means I can't get back to the text menus up top any more.

Hopefully this is fixed in build 84 for PCs. Can't wait to try it out!

One more question - does the Tangent Wave work with the PC version as well? Seems like the Redcine-X/Tangent Wave/RedRocket option for PCs might be a great low cost solution at last!

Cheers,

Paul

Ash Bolland
01-22-2010, 06:35 AM
There will be no more support for REDCINE. Our best effort is to tune up REDCINE-X as quickly as possible... and update ROCKETcine-X. It makes no sense to take resources off REDCINE-X to resurrect REDCINE and then be further behind on the app of the future.

Everyone is working pretty hard on this.

Jim

Fairenough. Looking forward to the clean UI and RT with or without rocket.

We don't need anymore features, We are good. Just the ones we had - Guides, Xml export, Shake/Nuke/Flame/Combustion windowless like UI.

thx
Ash

Johnny Friday
01-22-2010, 08:46 AM
Debayer at full resolution - can you explain?
(i posted this earlier, but i believe in a wrong thread)

QUOTE BELOW FROM JANNARD:

"3. ALWAYS do a full resolution debayer output for grading and finished work. Half-res ONLY for offline editing."

ok...from a shooter to now shooting and editing in the field. I believe i understand this however, but can you elaborate on exactly what this means when sitting at my computer and outputting to prores 422?

I believe i do this properly in the field. I grade at 1/2 resolution--usually white balance, tint and slight color and then output to a prores 422 file. I'm sure the nomenclature is throwing me here, but what does it mean to debayer at full resoution? or maybe i should ask, how would i find myself NOT outputting at full resolution?

A basic setup i follow to convert R3d files to prores 422 is as follows:
set output path to quicktime
choose apple pro res 422
format: red 1 4k
quality normal
filter: linear
process: standard

set framing to fit width

**some of the above i get, but setting process to standard and quality to normal as opposed to using the other settings are a mystery to me. As well as choosing prores 422 vs prores hq--seems there is no difference in quality.

NOW, where would i find myself NOT debayring in 4k? THIS IS A MYSTERY

Is it that within PROJECT, i should set the viewer on full resolution HIGH? I thought the viewer had only to do with viewing footage. OR, does setting the viewer determine if one is DEBAYERING IN full / half / 1/4 resolution ??
**and is this what RED means by DEBAYER IN 4K ??

Thanks for the comments. I assume i'm not alone here. I'm finding myself having to learn far more than i bargained for. But enjoying the process.

.....thanks (from a newbie to to digital transcoding)

Tehben Dean
01-22-2010, 12:20 PM
Is it possible now, (I couldn't find it) or will it be possible later, to trim the r3d's so you can remove bad beginnings and ends as well as apply the adjustments to the metadata of the original clip? Or at least export new r3d's?

Great improvements BTW!

Cheers,
Tehben

Michael Totten
01-22-2010, 02:35 PM
I'm curious when the sharpening function will be enabled? Perhaps next week?
thanks,
michael

paulherrin
01-22-2010, 03:34 PM
we still getting a windows version today?

pretty please (:

David Rasberry
01-22-2010, 03:35 PM
we still getting a windows version today?

pretty please (:

Second that request. Are we close?

Jannard
01-22-2010, 05:58 PM
Second that request. Are we close?

We are VERY close...

Jim

paulherrin
01-22-2010, 06:02 PM
we are very excited! thanks!

Joseph Hutson
01-22-2010, 06:04 PM
Second that request. Are we close?

It's weird not seeing your name in yellow. :D

As far REDCINE-X, I'm enjoying working with it so far. I still have a ways to go, as far as learning the whole RAW workflow...

Elsie N
01-22-2010, 08:03 PM
we are very excited! thanks!
Sounds like it is a good idea to check the Recon section of Reduser and see if the Thoughts and Tips thread has more than 18 entries. I'm hoping that number 19 will be a link to download the Windows version.

paulherrin
01-22-2010, 08:18 PM
be careful with that... it may just be posted with the other updates (post #11)

Elsie N
01-22-2010, 08:21 PM
be careful with that... it may just be posted with the other updates (post #11)
possible

paulherrin
01-22-2010, 08:22 PM
just don't want ye to miss out ;)

Elsie N
01-22-2010, 08:27 PM
He did say "Check this THREAD often. Jim's pretty literal. If he'd said check this post often, I would be more in agreement.

Anyway, number 19 response has been posted. Good information but False alarm on Windows version.

paulherrin
01-22-2010, 08:32 PM
haha, I know, I saw that too and got excited... oh well. I'm gonna go start a movie and check back every once in awhile...

Jannard
01-22-2010, 08:49 PM
New links for REDCINE-X now posted on Thoughts & Tips... Windows included.

Jim

paulherrin
01-22-2010, 09:13 PM
thanks Jim, and every one else!

Elsie N
01-22-2010, 09:14 PM
thanks Jim, and every one else!
You were right... post #11

Michael Olsen
01-22-2010, 09:15 PM
New links for REDCINE-X now posted on Thoughts & Tips... Windows included.

Jim

Though I have yet to use it to grade any RED footage, I want to thank you and the RED team for writing an application which appears so functional and so light on its feet. No bloated software here.

paulherrin
01-22-2010, 09:32 PM
is the windows version only for 64-bit? i'm crashing every time i pull a clip in... anyone?

Joseph Hutson
01-22-2010, 09:34 PM
is the windows version only for 64-bit? i'm crashing every time i pull a clip in... anyone?

it could be the clip...or not all of the files in the right folder?

paulherrin
01-22-2010, 09:46 PM
right, that's not the problem... is it possible i don't have the right codec for those quicktime wrappers? i can't get them to play on their own...

but it must be a problem on my end, cause it does the same thing in build 54

David Battistella
01-22-2010, 09:52 PM
Just wanted to post into this thread a link to a post about REDCINE - X with "old R1 footage.

Lookin good...

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40245


David

paulherrin
01-22-2010, 10:16 PM
i'm just having troubles tonight... david your comparison looks good! however the zip file seems to be corrupted once i download it. maybe it's just me who knows... probably time for bed.

David Battistella
01-22-2010, 10:31 PM
i'm just having troubles tonight... david your comparison looks good! however the zip file seems to be corrupted once i download it. maybe it's just me who knows... probably time for bed.


Checking that now.

Nope. No Problem. the file is fine. If you open it in RA, you have to use the open command in the menu.

david

Joel Kaye
01-22-2010, 10:52 PM
Checking that now.

Nope. No Problem. the file is fine. If you open it in RA, you have to use the open command in the menu.


I downloaded it with no trouble. And yes, the new software is very impressive. I'm really excited to see what's next. :-)

Rich Schaefer
01-22-2010, 10:53 PM
Jim, it's pretty kick ass! Here are my initial thoughts.

All of this is on my MacBook Pro (3 yr old)!!!!

1. Its a very lightweight program on the computer system. at 1/8 or even 1/4 debayer, if I let it buffer for a minute I can play footage at real speed with audio and with the grade applied! Very helpful on set/location!

2. I LOVE the curve memory buttons! I love the curve sliders.

3. I love the moving/preview thumbnails for looking at the files/bins

3. I love the modularity, I can use the functions I need and arrange them around how I like....

4. Big jump from 54 to 90, what up?

5. RedCine-X is so much better and more NIMBLE than its predecessor RedCine. (I agree no need to support RedCine, its' a dinosaur in comparison)

I cant wait to cook/grade a job on my tower/rocket.

Prost,
Rich

paulherrin
01-22-2010, 10:57 PM
my problem was with the zip file itself... could it be a mac/pc issue?

David Battistella
01-22-2010, 11:12 PM
Might be...

Deanan
01-22-2010, 11:12 PM
4. Big jump from 54 to 90, what up?

A ton of work integrating the new color science plus alot of performance and reliability improvements. We hope to get back to faster updates but the new color sci was a big one.

Joseph Hutson
01-22-2010, 11:16 PM
all good here. Nice stuff...

jbeale
01-23-2010, 12:02 AM
Thanks for making Redcine-X available on Windows. Just had a play with an old firmware 12 (!) clip and it looks nice!

One detail, is there a way to get the histogram to scale so it fits inside the window? I can resize the window but the plot gets bigger by proportion, and peaks stay offscreen. I'm running Windows XP SP2 (32 bit).

Satsuki Murashige
01-23-2010, 03:05 AM
Hmm, just tried Build 90 but it crashed on me the first time, and hung on me the second time. This happened after I imported an .rcx file I saved in Build 84. Only the first clip showed up on the timeline, though they all showed up in the browser.

When I tried to scrub through the timeline to find the missing clips, the workspace went white, then a few of the dock panels went white too. Then the app crashed. Should I have uninstalled Build 84 first? And should I not import .rcx files from previous builds?

Marc Berger
01-23-2010, 03:55 AM
Thanks a lot! Its a really big step. Love LUT and the new color wheels.
BTW still don´t have any sound with Windows and no quicktime output. Am I doing something wrong?
Marc

Priit Poldmaa
01-23-2010, 04:57 AM
Hello Red Team.

I know RedCine-X is alpha.
We have one error repeating a lot in the log file. See fragment below.
Is there something we can do?
Runing WinXP SP3 32bit here. 8GB of RAM but WinXP does see only 3GB of course.

Thanks
Priit

Fragment of the log:

REDCine-X 90 Starting...
RedRocket( Driver: 1.1.4.0 Firmware:1.1.6.8 Serial#: 30090175 ) PCIExpress( Ok: True Speed: 250 Width: 64 Count: 8 ) Status(4891, 59.000000 59.000900, 1.001556 1.505837 2.502632 3.172839 5.239277 11.872511)

No Memory Available: Unable to allocate primary Image buffer Size: 4096x2304x4Cx1B

Unable to retrieve frame from RED Rocket™ - Reason: 8

No Memory Available: Unable to allocate primary Image buffer Size: 4096x2304x4Cx1B

Unable to retrieve frame from RED Rocket™ - Reason: 8

No Memory Available: Unable to allocate primary Image buffer Size: 4096x2304x4Cx1B

Unable to retrieve frame from RED Rocket™ - Reason: 8

No Memory Available: Unable to allocate primary Image buffer Size: 4096x2304x4Cx1B

Unable to retrieve frame from RED Rocket™ - Reason: 8

No Memory Available: Unable to allocate primary Image buffer Size: 4096x2304x4Cx1B

Unable to retrieve frame from RED Rocket™ - Reason: 8

.................................................. ......................

Yann Bouzerand
01-23-2010, 06:36 AM
TOD support ? ;)

Adam Clark
01-23-2010, 07:59 AM
pc version does not play audio. (did not in the old redcine-x either)

audio works in redcine though. otherwise it has much better performance than b54. thanks.

paulherrin
01-23-2010, 08:47 PM
bugs in windows...

1. histogram always stays in background, will not move to top

2. in the timeline, if you accidentally (or purposefully) scale your clip all the way down, the controls invert and it's just kinda weird.

3. could be me, but I can't get the framing tool to crop...

requests...

1. could we get some kind of toggle button in the monitor?

2. could we get some elapsed render time/estimated render time left in the export window?

3. how about 1,2,3,4, 5 numeric shortcuts to change resolution from full, to half, and so on...

4. can the default color/gamma space be set to redcolor & redgamma? and/or can you enable custom workspaces/shortcuts?

5. for mac, can we get a minimize button?

6. and of course, undo would be nice.

thoughts...

Really great stuff, the new FLUT™™ implementation is awesome! Thanks Graeme, thanks everyone!

Chris Kenny
01-24-2010, 08:47 AM
Wow, Redcine-X seems to be coming along nicely. The Lift/Gain/Gamma controls are a really nice unexpected addition. I recall bothering Ted like three years ago or something at that NAB New York screening about whether the raw processing app would have 3-way color correction or RGB curves.

My only real issue with the app as it currently stands is that it's a bit awkward to work quickly from shot to shot. This could probably be fixed with a couple of simple changes:

1) Have keys to move to the next/previous shot.
2) Shot shout boundaries in the scrubber at the bottom of the viewer window.
3) Have some visual indicator in the bin and on the timeline of whether a shot has had its settings changed from the camera metadata.

And while this isn't strictly necessary, it might also be nice to be able to just get rid of the timeline and easily load shots directly from the bin into the viewer and use those next/previous keys to move through the list in the bin.

Also, the ability to save looks along with clip files, either via RSX files saved to clip folders (like RedAlert) or via changing embedded metadata would be really useful.

Oh, and currently there doesn't seem to be any way to re-link moved clips. This is particularly problematic when combined with the previous issue; if your clips move and become unlinked in Redcine, there's no way to re-associate them with your grading data.

Elsie N
01-24-2010, 09:01 AM
And while this isn't strictly necessary, it might also be nice to be able to just get rid of the timeline and easily load shots directly from the bin into the viewer


Just drag them from the bin to the viewer.

Chris Kenny
01-24-2010, 09:24 AM
Just drag them from the bin to the viewer.

Yeah, I found that, but with no easy way (that I can see) to move to the next/previous clip when you've loaded one from the bin, it's really tedious to work with a lot of clips like that; you have to go back to the bin and drag each one in individually.

Elsie N
01-24-2010, 10:25 AM
Yeah, I found that, but with no easy way (that I can see) to move to the next/previous clip when you've loaded one from the bin, it's really tedious to work with a lot of clips like that; you have to go back to the bin and drag each one in individually.
Agreed.

CJ Roy
01-24-2010, 10:36 AM
For my type of work, I'm doing lots of transcoding on set & coloring off of a monitor. Right now, rocketcine suits my needs perfectly. I really hope it doesn't go away completely. Batch processing is far more important than a timeline.

Redcine-X looks neat, but the interface gets cluttered pretty easily. A lot of it could be solved with simple economizing. Getting rid of so much space between sliders, smaller fonts, etc. Also, having the import directory always out is annoying. I think there's a pretty good reason it's not in most apps. It's just sort of a waste of space. Is there a way to import a whole folder of footage? Right now I can only do one at a time.

Thanks. Please don't kill RocketCine, we need a simple one light, batch processing interface with monitor outputs.

CJ Roy
01-24-2010, 10:37 AM
Also, lift/gamma/gain in RocketCine would rock!

Chris Kenny
01-24-2010, 10:53 AM
Is there a way to import a whole folder of footage? Right now I can only do one at a time.

When viewing the clips in a folder you can do a Select All and then drag all the clips at once into a bin (and then onto the timeline).

Totally agreed, by the way, about batch processing being more important than the timeline features for most workflows. There's a reason Clipfinder -- which doesn't even have any type of timeline view -- has emerged as such an essential tool; it's really convenient for batch processing.

CJ Roy
01-24-2010, 10:58 AM
There's a reason Clipfinder -- which doesn't even have any type of timeline view -- has emerged as such an essential tool; it's really convenient for batch processing.

Exactly. Clipfinder has ended up being essential. The quick preview and the copy & pasting of RSX files has made on-set dailies vastly easier.

Sometimes, and in this case, simplicity equals efficiency.

Deanan
01-24-2010, 11:08 AM
For my type of work, I'm doing lots of transcoding on set & coloring off of a monitor. Right now, rocketcine suits my needs perfectly. I really hope it doesn't go away completely. Batch processing is far more important than a timeline.

Redcine-X looks neat, but the interface gets cluttered pretty easily. A lot of it could be solved with simple economizing. Getting rid of so much space between sliders, smaller fonts, etc. Also, having the import directory always out is annoying. I think there's a pretty good reason it's not in most apps. It's just sort of a waste of space. Is there a way to import a whole folder of footage? Right now I can only do one at a time.

Thanks. Please don't kill RocketCine, we need a simple one light, batch processing interface with monitor outputs.

Once we've gotten to a certain point with redcine-X features we'll do a UI pass to make it more efficient and flexible for different workflows (think workflow spaces/layouts).

Rocketcine will freeze pretty soon. The full functionality will go into redcinex as well as the workflow.

You can select all in a folder and drag to a bin in redcinex.

Simon Blackledge
01-24-2010, 11:25 AM
Would like fullscreen - or fullscreen clean. ie no ui.. no osx menu bar etc.. just the image.

Deanan
01-24-2010, 11:49 AM
Would like fullscreen - or fullscreen clean. ie no ui.. no osx menu bar etc.. just the image.

We had that in rocketcine so we can do the same in RCX.

Justin O'Neill
01-24-2010, 12:11 PM
I have one suggestion. This is definitely not a priority but can save a lot of time. Adobe Lightroom has a very useful feature where when you double click on a slider it sets it back to it's default value.

It can be a bit tricky sliding the slider back to exactly 0 (or 1.0 as the case may be) but double clicking takes a fraction of a second.

paulherrin
01-24-2010, 12:34 PM
or simply a small "reset" button beside it

Mark L. Pederson
01-24-2010, 12:40 PM
Also, the ability to save looks along with clip files, either via RSX files saved to clip folders (like RedAlert) or via changing embedded metadata would be really useful.

I'll take an XML file which contains the look - that can be loaded back into the app in another project, saved as a preset, loaded in the camera, etc.

Michael Lofquist
01-24-2010, 01:47 PM
Form and Functionality - the art of functional design

I would like to emphasize that I fully understand that the current release of Redcine-X is a work in progress and that these comments are not in anyway meant as detrimental; I like the new direction of Redcine(-X) but I think from a design point of view there is something fundamental missing. Of course I might be barking up the wrong tree and the hardworking guys and girls at RED already have thought this out and will be surprising us in future releases. But in case they might want some input here is my to cents worth.

So what right have I you may ask? First, I am Danish and we have a proud history of functional design and second, I spent almost 20 years doing software architecture and innovation around the world, so I do have an opinion ;-)

In the current release(s) of Redcine-X I see plenty of brilliant new form and functionality. Form in the sense of new well designed windows and functionality in terms of the new color space, gamma space, FLUT™™™™e, histogram, curves adjustments etc etc. Of course I recognize this is a work in progress and a lot of both form and functionality are missing and are being added on a day to day basis.

So what is the point I am trying to make. Well, what I am not seeing is support for process or workflows. How is this interface with its form and function supposed to support the various workflows? That to me is not very clear or actually to make a point, I believe bar one exception is absent from the current design.

To illustrate my point let me guess what the core processes (or workflows) this tool will be supporting:

1) View/review clips for content, quality etc etc
2) Set in/out points of clips and/or combine two or more clips into larger clips
3) Apply color space, gamma space, color temperature, FLUT™™™™, curves etc to one or more clips
4) Apply re-framing to one or more clips
5) Export one or more clips to various formats

Please feel free to add more points here as I am sure I am missing some.

So why is this not working for me in its current incarnation? Well it is somewhat working when I play around with individual clips, set in and out points and add various color settings and curves to them. But it really does not scale well (for me anyway).

Firstly despite loving the look and feel of the windows, I find the collections of windows confusing, not to mention the fact that they really don't scale and organize well on a 17" MacBook (thinking of on-set DIT point of view here).

Secondly and probably more important is that the form and function we have here does not really cater to any specific workflow. I am presented will all kinds of windows at once (yes I can enable or disable at will) but I am left jumping from one window to the next trying to do what I have to do. Which clip am I applying the curve correct to, the one in the viewer, the one in the timeline, the selected 3 in the bin? Okay, maybe I am exaggerating here a bit, but I do so to make a point. The user is left a bit in the lurch.

Lets look at Apple's Color application. It's a good example of form and functionality that comes together to support color grading workflows. How does it do that? First of all, the application is organized various areas or "rooms" (in this case tab panels) that directly relate to what the grader is doing at a point of the grading process or workflow. These rooms are logically organized from left to right in a natural flow, which is an important paradigm. On the left we have the viewer and below that various instruments. Then we have the 5 "rooms" that directly map to overall workflow of grading (primary in, secondaries, color fx, primary out and rendering) and a couple of auxiliary "rooms" with support functionality for the workflow (setup, geometry, still store). The workflow is abundantly clear from the interface - form and function come together and provide a functional yet elegant design. And it fits even on a 17" MacBook and more importantly when spanned across two displays it reorganizes the collection of viewer and instruments to the right side, supporting our natural tendencies to view everything from left to right and top down.

In the current Redcine-X design I see one clear attempt to enforce or support a workflow: the button labelled 'Back to editing' / 'Select Clips'. This switches me between the Browser/Search/Bin Collection and the Clip Selection. That works reasonable well for me when I am dealing with a handful of clips but I would really like to see more direction demarkation of workflow/process, especially when the workflow requires many clips to be processed.

Here is an example of me bumbling along using the tool: I click a clip in the 'Clip Selection' browser. Nothing happens. I double click the clip in the browser and the clip is loaded into the timeline and the clip viewer. I apply my color temperature, some FLUT™™™™, some curves. Great. Happy, with the new color science I continue. I double click another clip in the 'Clip Selection' browser. It's added to the timeline after the first one. Surprise. I move the playhead to it and see that the adjustments I made to the previous clip has rightly or wrongly not been applied to the newly added clip. Now I have two clips in the timeline. I didn't really want that - I wanted in this case to process each one in turn or maybe I did want the same effect applied. I definitely did not want to combine all the clips into one.... well in this case I didn't. I figure by trial and error the way process individual clips is to drag them into the viewer, apply my looks and when done drag another one over the existing one etc etc. Of course this works well until my butter fingers drops the clip before it reaches the viewer and the clip is removed from the 'Clip Selection' browser. Back to the browser and try and figure out what clip I "lost". Dragging and dropping paradigm with dual result is risky. The <cmd>+<delete> would be a safer bet as it is a well known paradigm for the Mac users. Interestingly <delete> works on the clips in the timeline. Single click of a clip should really load the clip in the viewer as this is standard procedure in many tools and come naturally to many people.

So, the point that I am trying to make is that there should be:

a) a clearer demarkation or support of various processes or workflows: batch processing versus individual processing of clips versus combining clips onto timelines versus...there is a finite list based on what the core functionality of the tool.

b) more compliance to a set of well defined rules and practices used on existing platforms and tools or else you will spend a lot of cycles trying to re-educate your users to new paradigms and habits.


Hope that these comments will provide a basis for some healthy discussion ...:001_rolleyes:

michael

Chris Kenny
01-24-2010, 01:49 PM
The Aperture interface -- a tabbed sidebar with collapsible panels in it -- would work particularly well. Perhaps a sidebar on either side of the image viewing area. Aperture also has a one-key shortcut to hide the sidebar so you can see the image better, which is nice. Come to think of it, this would sort of just be an evolution of the current RocketCine interface, I think.

Making the user manage a bunch of windows is an approach everyone is trying to move away from, and with good reason. (Though it can be made to work with good window layout management; FCP does OK, though if the rumored major overhaul is really in the works, I won't be too surprised it the new UI ditches all the separate windows.)

Justin O'Neill
01-24-2010, 02:06 PM
Ok here is a bug I am running into in Windows Vista. I click on the + sign in the "Export" window, select quicktime as the file format, click "Setup...", and then click "Settings..." under video. Now when I click "Ok" the setup windows vanish and the preset is not added to the "Export" window. This happens whether I change any of the "Settings..." or not.

shashbugu
01-24-2010, 06:03 PM
Form and Functionality - the art of functional design

I would like to emphasize that I fully understand that the current release of Redcine-X is a work in progress and that these comments are not in anyway meant as detrimental; I like the new direction of Redcine(-X) but I think from a design point of view there is something fundamental missing. Of course I might be barking up the wrong tree and the hardworking guys and girls at RED already have thought this out and will be surprising us in future releases. But in case they might want some input here is my to cents worth.

So what right have I you may ask? First, I am Danish and we have a proud history of functional design and second, I spent almost 20 years doing software architecture and innovation around the world, so I do have an opinion ;-)

In the current release(s) of Redcine-X I see plenty of brilliant new form and functionality. Form in the sense of new well designed windows and functionality in terms of the new color space, gamma space, FLUT™™™™™e, histogram, curves adjustments etc etc. Of course I recognize this is a work in progress and a lot of both form and functionality are missing and are being added on a day to day basis.

So what is the point I am trying to make. Well, what I am not seeing is support for process or workflows. How is this interface with its form and function supposed to support the various workflows? That to me is not very clear or actually to make a point, I believe bar one exception is absent from the current design.

To illustrate my point let me guess what the core processes (or workflows) this tool will be supporting:

1) View/review clips for content, quality etc etc
2) Set in/out points of clips and/or combine two or more clips into larger clips
3) Apply color space, gamma space, color temperature, FLUT™™™™™, curves etc to one or more clips
4) Apply re-framing to one or more clips
5) Export one or more clips to various formats

Please feel free to add more points here as I am sure I am missing some.

So why is this not working for me in its current incarnation? Well it is somewhat working when I play around with individual clips, set in and out points and add various color settings and curves to them. But it really does not scale well (for me anyway).

Firstly despite loving the look and feel of the windows, I find the collections of windows confusing, not to mention the fact that they really don't scale and organize well on a 17" MacBook (thinking of on-set DIT point of view here).

Secondly and probably more important is that the form and function we have here does not really cater to any specific workflow. I am presented will all kinds of windows at once (yes I can enable or disable at will) but I am left jumping from one window to the next trying to do what I have to do. Which clip am I applying the curve correct to, the one in the viewer, the one in the timeline, the selected 3 in the bin? Okay, maybe I am exaggerating here a bit, but I do so to make a point. The user is left a bit in the lurch.

Lets look at Apple's Color application. It's a good example of form and functionality that comes together to support color grading workflows. How does it do that? First of all, the application is organized various areas or "rooms" (in this case tab panels) that directly relate to what the grader is doing at a point of the grading process or workflow. These rooms are logically organized from left to right in a natural flow, which is an important paradigm. On the left we have the viewer and below that various instruments. Then we have the 5 "rooms" that directly map to overall workflow of grading (primary in, secondaries, color fx, primary out and rendering) and a couple of auxiliary "rooms" with support functionality for the workflow (setup, geometry, still store). The workflow is abundantly clear from the interface - form and function come together and provide a functional yet elegant design. And it fits even on a 17" MacBook and more importantly when spanned across two displays it reorganizes the collection of viewer and instruments to the right side, supporting our natural tendencies to view everything from left to right and top down.

In the current Redcine-X design I see one clear attempt to enforce or support a workflow: the button labelled 'Back to editing' / 'Select Clips'. This switches me between the Browser/Search/Bin Collection and the Clip Selection. That works reasonable well for me when I am dealing with a handful of clips but I would really like to see more direction demarkation of workflow/process, especially when the workflow requires many clips to be processed.

Here is an example of me bumbling along using the tool: I click a clip in the 'Clip Selection' browser. Nothing happens. I double click the clip in the browser and the clip is loaded into the timeline and the clip viewer. I apply my color temperature, some FLUT™™™™™, some curves. Great. Happy, with the new color science I continue. I double click another clip in the 'Clip Selection' browser. It's added to the timeline after the first one. Surprise. I move the playhead to it and see that the adjustments I made to the previous clip has rightly or wrongly not been applied to the newly added clip. Now I have two clips in the timeline. I didn't really want that - I wanted in this case to process each one in turn or maybe I did want the same effect applied. I definitely did not want to combine all the clips into one.... well in this case I didn't. I figure by trial and error the way process individual clips is to drag them into the viewer, apply my looks and when done drag another one over the existing one etc etc. Of course this works well until my butter fingers drops the clip before it reaches the viewer and the clip is removed from the 'Clip Selection' browser. Back to the browser and try and figure out what clip I "lost". Dragging and dropping paradigm with dual result is risky. The <cmd>+<delete> would be a safer bet as it is a well known paradigm for the Mac users. Interestingly <delete> works on the clips in the timeline. Single click of a clip should really load the clip in the viewer as this is standard procedure in many tools and come naturally to many people.

So, the point that I am trying to make is that there should be:

a) a clearer demarkation or support of various processes or workflows: batch processing versus individual processing of clips versus combining clips onto timelines versus...there is a finite list based on what the core functionality of the tool.

b) more compliance to a set of well defined rules and practices used on existing platforms and tools or else you will spend a lot of cycles trying to re-educate your users to new paradigms and habits.


Hope that these comments will provide a basis for some healthy discussion ...:001_rolleyes:

michael

There is an old African saying you cant comb a wild lions mane with a human comb, you have to tame it first.
One thing to consider is Red has to put out a free product without stepping on the toes of its initial partners. The original Redcine had the perfect interface, but it was cripple ware. We all know why. This new version for most users is really about function to begin with. Don't forget the same programers are the exact folk working on many of the other Red hardware software products. Redcine-X is a spare time gig. I am only assuming here. JUst put in your feedback/suggestions clearly I know for a fact they pay close attention. Sometimes I wonder if Jim, Deanan, Graeme and Sean are really 60 people using the same usernames and email addresses. Its the smartest way to have customers feel personally attended too. Ha Ha just kidding I know you all work so hard.

Andrew Patterson
01-24-2010, 08:44 PM
Ok here is a bug I am running into in Windows Vista. I click on the + sign in the "Export" window, select quicktime as the file format, click "Setup...", and then click "Settings..." under video. Now when I click "Ok" the setup windows vanish and the preset is not added to the "Export" window. This happens whether I change any of the "Settings..." or not.

This happens to me as well. So I have no way to export to Quicktime currently.

Also, I hear there is AVID MXF Export on MAC -- would LOVE that on PC!

Thanks!

Justin O'Neill
01-24-2010, 09:03 PM
This happens to me as well. So I have no way to export to Quicktime currently.


Andrew, here is a sort of workaround I figured out for now.

Click on the + sign in the "Export" window, select quicktime as the file format, click "Setup...", and then click "Ok" WITHOUT clicking "settings...". This allows you to export with the default settings.

Michael Epple
01-24-2010, 09:30 PM
Still not able to turn off sound and am having problems with playback quality. Regardless if I turn it off I still hear it and I can't get any kind of realtime playback. On a Macbook Pro laterst version of 10.5.

Michael Romano
01-24-2010, 09:37 PM
Determined setting that brings my 2x2.93GHz MacPro to its knees:

Detail Window:
Debayer = High
Sharpness = ANYTHING BUT NONE
Denoise = Seems to have no effect.

Other than that its kind of spiffy, even in full resolution. The floating windows are hard to work with. Please get rid of the textures!

Deanan
01-24-2010, 10:24 PM
Determined setting that brings my 2x2.93GHz MacPro to its knees:

Detail Window:
Debayer = High
Sharpness = ANYTHING BUT NONE
Denoise = Seems to have no effect.

Other than that its kind of spiffy, even in full resolution. The floating windows are hard to work with. Please get rid of the textures!

The detail window will always force a full debayer just for the detail view so use it sparingly or it will slow everything down alot.

Deanan
01-24-2010, 10:25 PM
Still not able to turn off sound and am having problems with playback quality. Regardless if I turn it off I still hear it and I can't get any kind of realtime playback. On a Macbook Pro laterst version of 10.5.

Send me the log files please. (deanan at red)

Michael Epple
01-25-2010, 01:12 AM
How do I generate a log file? Also, is there a way to transcode from the timeline where the clips are transcoded as separate clips as opposed to one timeline clip that is a combination of all of them? Tried it a couple ways and it always asks me to name the timeline and then it becomes one large conglomerated clip.

Satsuki Murashige
01-25-2010, 03:05 AM
How do I generate a log file? Also, is there a way to transcode from the timeline where the clips are transcoded as separate clips as opposed to one timeline clip that is a combination of all of them? Tried it a couple ways and it always asks me to name the timeline and then it becomes one large conglomerated clip.
Heya Mike!

The logs are here: User/Library/Application Support/Red/RedCineX/Logs.

To render separate clips, you click '+' in the Export window and check the "sub folder per clip" box at the bottom of the Export Settings page. At least it should, haven't actually tried it yet because Build 90 keeps crashing on me.

Yogesh Khubchandani
01-25-2010, 05:25 AM
Redcine-x build 90

ISSUE 1
Export (Bin (Selected) OR Bin (All) )

When I try to export a batch of clips in the Bin (doesn't matter if I use Selected clips in Bin or All Clips in Bin), Redcine-x seems to physically create the files that match the name of the clips selected.

But when I check the exported clips - I find that all of them have footage from just one clip out of the multiple clips selected.

Steps:

Add 2 or more clips to a Bin.
Create an export preset to output quicktime files, and specify an output folder
Select Export (Bin All Clips)
OR
Highlight 2 clips in the bin, and Select Export (Bin Selected Clips)

In the batch list you will see all different file names.

On the disk you will see different Quicktime files generated.

Open all files rendered - you will see that all have the same footage.


ISSUE 2

If I change the in point and out point for a clip in the editing timeline, and then I try to export that clip from Bin, it still remembers the in and out points and only renders the part of the clip selected for the editing timeline.


Steps:
Add 1 clip to a bin
Add the same clip to timeline
In the timeline drag the in points, and out points of the clip so as to leave out the parts where director calls Action/Cut.
Now go to eXport and export the Bin All Clips

You will find the exported clip starts at in point and ends at out point.

I think it would make more sense to keep the bin export separate from timeline export. Because if I want to just export the footage within those in and out points, then I would use the Timeline export option for (1 or multiple selected clips in the timeline)



I love RedCine-X a lot. So would be great to have these fixed.

thanks
yogesh

Bastiaan Houtkooper
01-25-2010, 07:57 AM
Working with REDCine-X v90

First of all, taking a snapshot overwrites previous snapshots of the same clip.
Not nice if you make some different grades as reference.....

Secondly I was wondering if there is a preferred path to follow with the new FLUT involved.

Tradionally you set lift and gain levels first and fine tune with gamma settings.
than color balance them.
If I move FLUT (and it reacts very strong on my Wave panel), it destroys all previous settings.
Is there a 'preferred' order or the usual, tweak everywhere?

David Ibbitson
01-25-2010, 08:57 AM
Form and Functionality - the art of functional design

Here is an example of me bumbling along using the tool: I click a clip in the 'Clip Selection' browser. Nothing happens. I double click the clip in the browser and the clip is loaded into the timeline and the clip viewer. I apply my color temperature, some FLUT™™™™™™™, some curves. Great. Happy, with the new color science I continue. I double click another clip in the 'Clip Selection' browser. It's added to the timeline after the first one. Surprise. I move the playhead to it and see that the adjustments I made to the previous clip has rightly or wrongly not been applied to the newly added clip. Now I have two clips in the timeline. I didn't really want that - I wanted in this case to process each one in turn or maybe I did want the same effect applied. I definitely did not want to combine all the clips into one.... well in this case I didn't. I figure by trial and error the way process individual clips is to drag them into the viewer, apply my looks and when done drag another one over the existing one etc etc. Of course this works well until my butter fingers drops the clip before it reaches the viewer and the clip is removed from the 'Clip Selection' browser. Back to the browser and try and figure out what clip I "lost". Dragging and dropping paradigm with dual result is risky. The <cmd>+<delete> would be a safer bet as it is a well known paradigm for the Mac users. Interestingly <delete> works on the clips in the timeline. Single click of a clip should really load the clip in the viewer as this is standard procedure in many tools and come naturally to many people.
michael

Hi Michael,

If your attempting to apply looks to a selection of clips try this:
1. Load all the clips your interested in processing into a bin.
2. Drag one of those clips directly to the viewer (or double click to append to the timeline).
3. Apply any looks to this clip.
4. In the "Look Presets" tool click '+' to add a new preset. Give it a name.
5. In the 'Apply to:' dropdown of the same tool, select 'Bin (all clips)'.
6. Click apply.

You should now have the same look applied to each clip in the bin.
Hope this helps!

David

Neil Harrison
01-25-2010, 09:38 AM
Hi, I shot some footage last week with Build 21, it was on a white scoop (White Colorama), HMI, and the camera was set at 4932K on set with an AWB for viewing purposes.

When these files are loaded into Red Alert the white point looks correct and when I do a pick white balance, that also comes back at around the same temp. (4872K)

If I load the same clips into RCX they have a blue cast, despite the color temp being set the same. If I then do a pick white point RCX says that the white point in actually 6165K and then the footage looks correct again!?

If I look at the RCX window and the Red Alert window side by side the footage looks identical in both, but one is set at 4872K and the other at 6165K.

Neil.

Demian Hurst
01-25-2010, 10:02 AM
How do I generate a log file? Also, is there a way to transcode from the timeline where the clips are transcoded as separate clips as opposed to one timeline clip that is a combination of all of them? Tried it a couple ways and it always asks me to name the timeline and then it becomes one large conglomerated clip.

Mike - At the back of the REDCINE-X Operation Guide (that is incuded in the REDCINE-X download) it explains where to get the log files and how to compress them to send to us.

Hops this helps.

Michael Cioni
01-25-2010, 12:41 PM
Here is some of the feedback from the LightIRON Team

Add in timecode and edgecode in VIEWER
-This program will likely be used for logging and pulling of unique shots (such as visual effects) and needs to be able to display R3D timecode tracks

Combine the Framing Tool and Framing Presets tool into 1 tool
-Currently, to APPLY and SAVE a framing preset you need two windows and have to APPLY the presets in a specific order or they will not apply. It’s confusing to require two separate tools execute this- most commonly when converting 4.5K media to letterboxed 1920

Allow for “Save Window Layout”
-I find that I will use RC-X for different tasks and some tasks do not require the same set of windows as others. If one can save an “exports” layout it would be different from a “viewing” layout, etc.

Add an “Apple” + “Number” command to open and close any window
-RC-X has many windows, yet it is not necessary to have every window to be visible of all tasks. For a quick and clean response, add in the ability to quickly toggle windows to and from view using keyboard hot strokes such as “Apple” + “1” for timeline


Consider an ATTRIBUTES PRESET BOX so one can monitor and group sub-presets together or apply into a OVERALL project preset
-Currently, if you have (for example) a re-frame adjustment, a color preset and a export setting, you need to SAVE each preset and then apply the specific preset to each batch
-If you had 3 different looks, you could take all the outdoor and put them in one bin, then indoor to another bin and APPLY GLOBAL look to all presets
-If you had an ATTRIBUTES PREST box, you could selectively choose which attriutes you wanted to apply to a batch or even APPLY ALL

For fast adjustments, allow for “CURRENT SETTINGS” to be applied to a BIN for quick exports and no need to SAVE any presets
-Sometimes you want to setup anything you browse for a quick export and don't want to track any saved presets

Consider making a single-click necessary to active the thumbnail drop-down information
-auto-hover makes it difficult to select and monitor certain thumbnails as in some viewing modes the drop-down info covers the clip immediately below

Consider creating a WARNING if you are exporting a file with the same name

Consider not TRIMMING clips in the VIEWER when adding I/O points (this makes it difficult to change I/O points if you wanted to)


BUG FIXES:
Exports will stop if you are working in the Viewer window when setting IN and OUT points
When in the VIEWER window setting I/O points, the counter counts UP and then goes BACK when scrubbing in a clip (the picture is in the right place, but the frame counter is not)

Ido Karilla
01-25-2010, 12:53 PM
Should the Wave work in the win version?

Thanks

Michael Epple
01-25-2010, 01:17 PM
Heya Mike!

The logs are here: User/Library/Application Support/Red/RedCineX/Logs.

To render separate clips, you click '+' in the Export window and check the "sub folder per clip" box at the bottom of the Export Settings page. At least it should, haven't actually tried it yet because Build 90 keeps crashing on me.

Thanks Satsuki,
But I don't want each clip in a separate folder. I just want the clips to transcode separately. It seems that everyone is having a problem with this even when they're trying to transcode from the bin. As for now, I'll just transcode in scene batches. Luckily we had a slate! Now I have to find that log file!

Michael Epple
01-25-2010, 01:32 PM
Also, we really need a clip info box so we know, at the least, what clips are on the timeline. Other info about the clips would also be great!

Michael Lofquist
01-25-2010, 04:47 PM
Hi Michael,

If your attempting to apply looks to a selection of clips try this:
1. Load all the clips your interested in processing into a bin.
2. Drag one of those clips directly to the viewer (or double click to append to the timeline).
3. Apply any looks to this clip.
4. In the "Look Presets" tool click '+' to add a new preset. Give it a name.
5. In the 'Apply to:' dropdown of the same tool, select 'Bin (all clips)'.
6. Click apply.

You should now have the same look applied to each clip in the bin.
Hope this helps!

David

David

I know how it works - you misunderstood my post - I was trying to discuss the process/workflow support that is not well defined in the tool - there is plenty of new and exciting functionality but no clear process/workflow support that can be found in tools like Color

michael

Michael Lofquist
01-25-2010, 04:51 PM
There is an old African saying you cant comb a wild lions mane with a human comb, you have to tame it first.
One thing to consider is Red has to put out a free product without stepping on the toes of its initial partners. The original Redcine had the perfect interface, but it was cripple ware. We all know why. This new version for most users is really about function to begin with. Don't forget the same programers are the exact folk working on many of the other Red hardware software products. Redcine-X is a spare time gig. I am only assuming here. JUst put in your feedback/suggestions clearly I know for a fact they pay close attention. Sometimes I wonder if Jim, Deanan, Graeme and Sean are really 60 people using the same usernames and email addresses. Its the smartest way to have customers feel personally attended too. Ha Ha just kidding I know you all work so hard.

shashbugu

I doubt that Redcine-X is a spare time gig - this is a serious product development and much needed as RED moves into a larger market space with the even more affordable 2/3 Scarlet. Being free or not is irreverent - it is a product and is treated as such by who ever is developing it.

My feedback is very clear: there is no clearly identifiable paradigm that provides support for the various processes/workflows that the tool needs to support unlike products like Color or for that matter the original Redcine

michael

Nook Kim
01-25-2010, 06:47 PM
Very impressive might not be a strong enough words for it, but I'm more happy than ever about what I could do with Red. Nicely done, Red. Keep 'em coming. I'm ready.

Things that don't work:

1. I know this will improve over time, but currently if I paste a look onto more than about six clips at once, RCX crashes. Not only that, it doesn't remember my newest look settings, so I have to create it again.

2. Timeline is very inefficient. It kills me not having the "cmd-a" to select all and "delete." Guess I want some hot keys.

3. Of course, everyone's dream: XML import.

4. I agree with what others say about the UI, but Jim says it will be re-done when the functionality satisfies us.

5. I'd love to see RCX implements a lot of Clipfinder things. Nothing can come even close to Clipfinder's simplicity.

Just my two Wons :)

Chris Parker
01-25-2010, 07:23 PM
I really want to see framing tools with a visual representation of the 4 edges of your frame, like Clipfinder. Would be great to simply drag the sides of the frame in to match the rack leader, or whatever your desired framing may be......

Chris Parker
01-25-2010, 08:02 PM
I would like to see a preview of where the burn-ins appear on the video itself before exporting (and during preview) so I can line it up exactly where I want it. Also where are the frame guides for 1.33:1, 1.85:1 and scope? And the cropping and blanking features of Redcine?

If I have the preview window set to 1/8 1/4 1/16 does this effect the output at all?

Were these points/questions answered? I didn't see, and am curious about this as well.....

Michael Epple
01-25-2010, 09:14 PM
I'm also guessing that the Low, Medium, and High settings in the detail window are what the export is going to be done in as well, correct?

Eric Trageser
01-26-2010, 10:45 AM
Mike - At the back of the REDCINE-X Operation Guide (that is incuded in the REDCINE-X download) it explains where to get the log files and how to compress them to send to us.

Hops this helps.

Where is this? I'm not finding any Operations Guide anywhere.

thanks.

Johnny Friday
01-26-2010, 10:53 AM
as i recall there was a different/new support page -- other than the one listed on the RED website...that had much more detailed info on each program as well as new and old builds. Does anyone have that link they can post?

Eric Trageser
01-26-2010, 11:22 AM
Loving this tool.

Input:

1 - Love the settings save buttons in the CURVE tool. (I imagine they will save settings soon). Would LOVE to see similar settings save buttons in the LIFT:GAMMA:GAIN tool and the IMAGE tool---great for quick toggle thru grades for comparison.

2 - XML EDL import ability would be huge. Double plus good with handles of user-defined length.

3 - Agree w/ LightIron guys: Not trimming when setting I/O points in the timeline would make changing your mind easier.

4 - Agree w/ LightIron guys: Timecode in VIEWER window please.

Well done....

------------------------
Eric Trageser
Los Angeles
www.erictrageser.com

David Ibbitson
01-26-2010, 12:17 PM
Loving this tool.
1 - Love the settings save buttons in the CURVE tool. (I imagine they will save settings soon). Would LOVE to see similar settings save buttons in the LIFT:GAMMA:GAIN tool and the IMAGE tool---great for quick toggle thru grades for comparison.


etrageser,

If you hold down one of those buttons until the curve markers flash
(approx 2 seconds), the settings for that particular curve are saved to disk,
and restored whenever you re-open the application. Ofcourse, it will be lost
if you overwrite it.

David

Neil Harrison
01-26-2010, 03:53 PM
Would it be possible to have an option in RCX to rotate the viewer window, so that we can work with portrait orientation footage straight from camera.

We are shooting stills with the camera turned 90 deg counter clockwise, and it would be great to be able to play back the footage this way in RCX. At present we use another monitor physically turned, but this is not ideal, and sometimes we just have a single laptop.

Thanks.

Neil.

R Fogg
01-26-2010, 09:08 PM
Identical behavior on 2 different machines 1 w RED Rocket™, one without - when export settings are set to "bin(all clips)" or "bin (selected clips)" and naming is set to "output with clip filename in selected folder" redcine-x build 90 renders out correctly named prores files, however each of the rendered files is an identical copy of the first file in the render queue.

Jean-Charles Wolfarth
01-27-2010, 06:45 AM
Identical behavior on 2 different machines 1 w RED Rocket™™, one without - when export settings are set to "bin(all clips)" or "bin (selected clips)" and naming is set to "output with clip filename in selected folder" redcine-x build 90 renders out correctly named prores files, however each of the rendered files is an identical copy of the first file in the render queue.

Same here, on PC, assuming you're on Mac as you can render Prores files. When you export different clips of the timeline, same behavior, all the clips rendered are the same as the first one.

Charles Stewart Jr
01-27-2010, 10:15 AM
Great job with Redcine-x build 90!!! I just shot something and was exporting some clips when I noticed that they are all ending up at a 1.96 GB file size. When I play it back it's just cutting off the end of the clips. Am I doing something wrong? I understand this is an "Alpha" release so I'm not bent out of shape or anything. I just wanted to know if there was an easy fix or should I go back to build 54 to finish the project. Thanks!

Charles

Eric Trageser
01-27-2010, 12:19 PM
If you hold down one of those buttons until the curve markers flash
(approx 2 seconds), the settings for that particular curve are saved to disk,
and restored whenever you re-open the application. Ofcourse, it will be lost
if you overwrite it.

David

Thanks David.

Also in the CURVES tool-
would love to see Photoshop-style SetWhitePoint / SetBlackPoint / SetGrayPoint eyedrop pickers. I use these often to quickly get a neutral coloring, and to expand the range of what's in an image to the ends of the available range.

Notis Benos
01-27-2010, 01:29 PM
Great job with Redcine-x build 90!!! I just shot something and was exporting some clips when I noticed that they are all ending up at a 1.96 GB file size. When I play it back it's just cutting off the end of the clips. Am I doing something wrong? I understand this is an "Alpha" release so I'm not bent out of shape or anything. I just wanted to know if there was an easy fix or should I go back to build 54 to finish the project. Thanks!

Charles

Not that I 'm sure this is the issue, but I 'd check the file size limitation FAT32 file system has. So, is your hard drive FAT32 formatted?

Notis Benos
01-27-2010, 01:46 PM
Ok here is a bug I am running into in Windows Vista. I click on the + sign in the "Export" window, select quicktime as the file format, click "Setup...", and then click "Settings..." under video. Now when I click "Ok" the setup windows vanish and the preset is not added to the "Export" window. This happens whether I change any of the "Settings..." or not.


This happens to me as well. So I have no way to export to Quicktime currently.

Also, I hear there is AVID MXF Export on MAC -- would LOVE that on PC!

Thanks!

Same here, it is a bug, but there is a solution thanks to our reduser fellow:


When I make a new export preset, and enter the setup of quicktime file, and then press OK to save the new setup, the preset window goes beyond the program main window.
At first I thought it just disappeared, and tried several times. Every time same thing, then by coincidence I minimized the main program window and found all the export preset windows there, "waiting" to clik OK.

Rainer Fritz
01-27-2010, 03:44 PM
thx for the new version of RCX....

one question... would it be possible to integrate a shadow/midtone/highlight color wheel as well? that would be great.....

thx
rainer

Dave Dessel
01-27-2010, 03:55 PM
The latest version of Redcine-X really changes the entire game. Meaning specifically, that the end result- the rendered media that we actually edit is much improved.

I was never able to get close to what I wanted from a Raw file using the old applications.

I would use the old Redcine to create ultra-flat Quicktimes. These renders would have to be loaded into Apple Color, adjusted to a precise grade and rendered out. The results were alway great, but the process was never fun because of the two renders. This process certainly didn't make things easy from a business perspective.

The preview on the old apps never matched my renders, and the lack of control to easily spread out the tonal range, forced me to escape from the old Red Apps as soon as possible.

All of this has changed, and with Redcine-X. I am getting perfect renders on the first pass. This is not because of FLUT, Redcolor or Redgamma, (not that I don't appreciate them) but the addition of the lift, gamma and gain controls. These controls are the true game changers. They are the primary controls that all colorists use and there is good reason for it.

I'm now getting great renders using 709 Color Space and Gamma as well as the new parameters. The critical thing is to stretch out the lift and gain to the edges of the histogram, and then adjust the mid-tones with either FLUT or Gamma. Adding a slight S-Curve on top can make for a great look.

The Tangent Wave support is awesome, and makes RedCine-X a major piece of software.

Thanks to everyone at Red for the all efforts to improve the camera and workflow. I have learned a lot from you guys on how to treat customers. You are the best.

-Dave Dessel

Michael Totten
01-27-2010, 05:24 PM
I'm trying to get RED onto a job I'm shooting for Discovery HD, but the production company won't agree unless I can deliver them Avid DNxHD 1920X1080 59.94 220.
Is there a reason I haven't seen this codec in RedCine-X or Rocket-Cine ?

CK Olsen
01-27-2010, 05:46 PM
I finally had a chance to play with B90 today for the first time...
Overall it shows a lot of promise, and the image results have been pretty intriguing... The interface and workflow are defintiely a work in prgress, but cheers so far!

My reactions to Build 90:

#1 - PLEASE GIVE ME AN UNDO FEATURE.
In playing around, I've made plenty of errors, often due to the preview window cacheing delays, including dialing in odd numeric values, or razoring my clips in the wrong place... having to remember what the previous value was, or having to rebuild/refix my timeline is a big pain in the arse... Not having Ctrl-Z just plain hurts.

#2 - It would be extremely helpful to have a splitscreen feature for showing "metadata/grade" changes and especially for "before/after" Detail previews for the De-Noise/Sharpening features. (BTW-Are these even enabled? It was REALLY hard to tell...)

#3 - I'm not using RED Rocket™™ yet, but AM using this on a decent machine, and was a little surprised at the quirky interaction/slow update speed for the interface... I know this is Beta, but what should we "not yet Rocket enabled" users expect re: playback and interactivity? (I'm only previewing at 1/8th and the constant cacheing caused me to misdial a lot...)

#4 - My detail window keeps failing, requiring a relaunch to see picture again... Not able to reproduce exactly yet, but it's happened every session I've tried today.

#5 - The export process can be confusing... I don't always want a "preset"... sometimes I just need to get 1 clip quickly in, graded, and back out and would prefer a quick export feature with all the options, filename and save location info in one dialog box so I can hit one button and be done. Maybe I can do this right now, but if so, I have not found out how yet.

Again, Kudos... This tool, combined with the latest build of the RED firmware has already helped me get more out of my camera than I expected, and I can't wait to see what's next!
-CK

Mark Phelan
01-27-2010, 06:38 PM
The detail window will always force a full debayer just for the detail view so use it sparingly or it will slow everything down alot.

Not quite sure I follow, please explain. Reason I'm asking is that I rendered a long clip that took, oh about 13 hours to render. (Boy, do I need a RedRocket) I had Detail set at High, sharpness at 0 and denoise at 0. Why? Because I don't know what I'm doing here! ;-) This combination of settings produced a very soft image. I'd like to know what others are using for settings to get a nice, sharp image. Rendering the same file in RedAlert produces a sharp image, so I know it's the combination of settings I've used that are the culprit. Thanks for any good words of wisdom!

Jesse Cairnie
01-28-2010, 11:47 AM
My only comment is the Cluttered layout..

I would like to see resizable windows so I can have a neat layout.. right now its such a mess with over lapping and hidden windows.. I feel like im doing a research paper in college.. maybe some default window layouts and maybe a way to save the layout.. after I get it laid out to where I like it.. as soon as I close it and open again.. everything gets rearranged.. maybe resizable windows with scroll bars..

Phenomenal software, Thank you!

shashbugu
01-28-2010, 10:05 PM
The latest version of Redcine-X really changes the entire game. Meaning specifically, that the end result- the rendered media that we actually edit is much improved.

I was never able to get close to what I wanted from a Raw file using the old applications.

I would use the old Redcine to create ultra-flat Quicktimes. These renders would have to be loaded into Apple Color, adjusted to a precise grade and rendered out. The results were alway great, but the process was never fun because of the two renders. This process certainly didn't make things easy from a business perspective.

The preview on the old apps never matched my renders, and the lack of control to easily spread out the tonal range, forced me to escape from the old Red Apps as soon as possible.

All of this has changed, and with Redcine-X. I am getting perfect renders on the first pass. This is not because of FLUT™, Redcolor or Redgamma, (not that I don't appreciate them) but the addition of the lift, gamma and gain controls. These controls are the true game changers. They are the primary controls that all colorists use and there is good reason for it.

I'm now getting great renders using 709 Color Space and Gamma as well as the new parameters. The critical thing is to stretch out the lift and gain to the edges of the histogram, and then adjust the mid-tones with either FLUT™ or Gamma. Adding a slight S-Curve on top can make for a great look.

The Tangent Wave support is awesome, and makes RedCine-X a major piece of software.

Thanks to everyone at Red for the all efforts to improve the camera and workflow. I have learned a lot from you guys on how to treat customers. You are the best.

-Dave Dessel

Well said, change is coming

CK Olsen
01-29-2010, 08:42 AM
Again, I know this is Beta software, but I'm really confused by what is supposed to be saved when I save. I assumed it was a snapshot of my "project"... meaning my bin, timeline, and presets all should be saved, along with the graded state/"edit" state of the media on the timeline and/or in the bins... but this doesn't always appear to be the case. What I do appear to get is my bins, my export presets, and some, but not all of the grade presets I created beforte my last save. My binned media always appears to revert to metadata grade, the timeline opens cleared of any media, and I will usually only get a couple of the grade presets I had last "saved". I'm sure that some of this might be software bugs, some might be Beta, and admittedly, all might be my misunderstanding...
Anyone able to shed some light?
-CK

Jannard
01-30-2010, 12:08 AM
New REDCINE-X posted... Build 96.

Also new ROCKETCINE-X

Jim

Jannard
01-30-2010, 12:09 AM
Again, I know this is Beta software, but I'm really confused by what is supposed to be saved when I save. I assumed it was a snapshot of my "project"... meaning my bin, timeline, and presets all should be saved, along with the graded state/"edit" state of the media on the timeline and/or in the bins... but this doesn't always appear to be the case. What I do appear to get is my bins, my export presets, and some, but not all of the grade presets I created beforte my last save. My binned media always appears to revert to metadata grade, the timeline opens cleared of any media, and I will usually only get a couple of the grade presets I had last "saved". I'm sure that some of this might be software bugs, some might be Beta, and admittedly, all might be my misunderstanding...
Anyone able to shed some light?
-CK

There is a manual posted with the new release.

Jim

Rich Schaefer
01-30-2010, 12:16 AM
There is a manual posted with the new release.

Jim

Awesome! I am way better at shooting stuff than the post stuff.

Nick Shaw
01-30-2010, 03:21 AM
I may be missing something, but is there a way to choose the de-Bayer setting for export? It seems default to "full high" which is fine on my Mac Pro with a Rocket, but no good for creating dailies on my MacBook Pro.

Ramesh Jai
01-30-2010, 03:36 AM
I'll repeat my question here - is it still best to keep the white balance at 5000K or should one WB all the time..? Thanks.

Casey Green
01-30-2010, 03:39 AM
Great work on the new REDCINE-X. Glad to see Saveable/Loadable Layouts.

As for some more feedback, I would like to see REDCINE-X add the ability to Scroll and Zoom the Timeline by using a new version of the Scroll Bar at the bottom of the Timeline window.

The way it would work is this:

Click on the Scroll Bar and drag the mouse left and right to scroll (as you can now), BUT, when you drag the mouse up and down, it would perform a zoom in (up) or zoom out (down), and a combination of scrolling and zooming if you move the mouse up and to the left, down and to the right, etc.

Such a simple, yet very powerful UI tool.

If the team at RED can make a quick demo of it, I'm sure with some tweaks, you'll find it very useful...

Mouse Up=Zoom In
Down=Zoom Out
Left=Scroll Left
Right=Scroll Right

And of course, any combination add together... kind of like a flight yolk.

Sanjin Jukic
01-30-2010, 03:44 AM
Thanks,

it's nice to have the new improvements in RC-X and also for ROCKETCine-X...

lionel
01-30-2010, 07:42 AM
It would be really useful to have a clip counter in the bin so that we know that we have not missed out on any clips that might have been on different reels when batch processing all clips for the projects.

And it would be good if we can arrange thumbnails in the bin according to the filenames.

I am using RedCine X to process all my clips for conform just because of the FLUT™ and the new red color science. Will they also be coming to red alert?

Jeff Heusser
01-30-2010, 08:00 AM
Minor suggestion for save layouts using Mac build 96... it is very easy to save a name without the .lyt extension which presents as greyed out when you try to load.

Replication steps: Created a JeffView1.lyt. When I went to save a JeffView2 - from the save dialogue I clicked the name JeffView1.lyt figuring I'd save retyping and just change the 1 to a 2. When I click JeffView1.lyt it fills the text field for the save with JeffView1 but without the extension and allows me to save that way.

Loving the advancements, keep up the great work.

Jeff

Cüneyt Kaya
01-30-2010, 08:34 AM
I'll repeat my question here - is it still best to keep the white balance at 5000K or should one WB all the time..? Thanks.

WB all the time with FLUT and new Color Science

Mark Phelan
01-30-2010, 09:04 AM
There is a manual posted with the new release.

Jim

THANK YOU!!!

Luca Immesi
01-30-2010, 09:40 AM
I may be missing something, but is there a way to choose the de-Bayer setting for export? It seems default to "full high" which is fine on my Mac Pro with a Rocket, but no good for creating dailies on my MacBook Pro.
I agree. The software is great but a quick half debayer output option would be really good.

Ramesh Jai
01-30-2010, 07:08 PM
WB all the time with FLUT™ and new Color Science

Sorry but I meant do I keep white balancing on location while filming. Thnx

Frazier Nivens
01-30-2010, 08:02 PM
New REDCINE-X posted... Build 96.

Also new ROCKETCINE-X

Jim

Didn't see the link for the download for Build 96.

Thanks,
Frazier Nivens, Ocean Imaging
3002