Budget Help!

[Ben Feuer]

Well, the first 25 are out. It's got me thinking about my own mortality. Not really. It's got me thinking about --- budget!
I hate thinking about budget.

Basically, it would be awesome if all you clever RED-people could look over my list and tell me what I'm missing. I'm just talking about on-set production, nothing else. I'm going to rent cranes and audio equipment on a per-project basis.

So what have I forgotten?

AT 30k
-17.5k
----------
12.5k
---------
$500 CF Module
$2950 - $2500 = $450 - EVF Viewfinder
$120 - RED ARM
$1450 - Power Pack
$2750 - Premium Production Pack
$500 - Red or Birger F-Mount
$2500 - Nikon Lenses
$1000 - Cavision Follow Focus
$330 - 2x Sandisk Extreme III 16GB CF Card
$75 - 1x Sandisk Extreme IV 8GB CF Card
$1500 - Cartoni Focus Tripod
$130 - Pelican 1554 (ebay)
$200 - Pelican 1564 (ebay)
$500 - Blackmagic HDLink
$0 - 23 in monitor (already got it)
$100 - Delkin UDMA FireWire 800 CompactFlash reader
$250 - HDMI Cables, etc
$0 - Laptop
$0 - Sennheiser Mic Kit, XLR cables etc.
----
No mattebox!

[Ken Corben]

No matte box for an on set shoot? How many screw on ND's can one mount to Nikon glass? What about flare and bounce control on set?

Jim announced premium production pack is discontinued and now is a la carte. Also, firewire HDD or other method of backing up the CF cards redundantly via the laptop?

[Jaime Vallés]

Looks good. A few things:

* Not sure that the Sandisk Extreme III 16GB CF Cards will be fast enough for RED. They'll have to certify them before I go out and buy some.

* I think the EVF comes with a Red Arm... Can someone from the team confirm this?

* RED's Nikon F-mount is $500, but the Birger mount is $1400 (IIRC)

* If you get the Birger mount, you won't need the Cavision Follow Focus

* Where on earth can you get a Sandisk Extreme IV 8GB CF Card for only $75???!!! Seriously, I'll buy tons!!!

* You NEEEED a mattebox. It just won't look pro otherwise. ;)

[Ben Feuer]

Thanks for the advice, guys. Just spotted the change on the Production Pack. A la carte will work better for me - 19mm rods are all I needed anyhow.

The Birger mount sounds nice on paper - but then again, so did the Cinemek G35, back when I was still thinking HVX. When it ships and everyone loves it, I'll jump on board.

The Sandisk was a mistake listing - hehe. Actually more like a lie listing. You're right, got to up that to more like 150.

HD situation is covered.

So knock off 1500, add probably 200 for the rods, add 75 for the sandisk, still in pretty good shape.

I'm a little worried about monitoring, though. Can I really live without an untethered LCD?

[Ben Feuer]

Also - is the Cartoni Focus enough tripod for this rig? Maxing out at 20ish lbs? Might be cutting it close.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

To repeat some of what's been said already...

Premium pack is not an option anymore, and pieces additional to the Basic Production pack are a la carte.

You don't need to budget for an additional RED Arm unless you want a spare -- both the EVF and LCD include one.

You have the power pack listed, but no additional batteries? Depending on your usage, the two included batteries may not be enough. You can figure about 2 hours off of a single battery running the camera+RED DRIVE + LCD. It takes longer than 2 hours to charge and you might gain a bit more run time with CF instead of RED DRIVE.

You're RED #143... The Birger F mount won't be available in time for your RED One. You will be buying the RED F mount, which does not offer support for aperture control or other enhanced features like the Birger mount will.

Wait and see which CF cards are certified by RED. The Extreme III cards are NOT fast enough. Possibly for use with 2K only, but definitely not going to work with 4K.

The Cartoni Focus system is not going to work here. You will do much better picking up a tougher head used. Look at O'Connor, Sachtler and Vinten. Or if you still like Cartoni, the Gamma and Delta heads should serve well. But the Focus isn't strong enough-- It's max is 20lbs and it works best with a camera in the 10 to 15 pound range. The RED One is right at 10lbs just for the body. By the time you put ra baseplate, rods, lens, mattebox, filters, battery and record media on there, you've easily maxed out the Focus head.

What's the BlackMagic card going to be used for? Is it predominantly a monitoring solution or do you need live viewing or switching from SDI?

[Ben Feuer]

Well, now it starts getting ugly. There just aren't budget tripod solutions in this price range. Which Sachtler and Vinten would you recommend at that weight, Jeff? I know the O'Connor 1030HD is well-regarded, but that runs $5000 or so.

The Blackmagic goes out to 23 in monitor for a better look at the picture.

One extra battery at $500 sounds like it might be a good idea. What about an Anton Bauer solution?

[donatello b]

take a look at used Sachtler video 25, Video 20 , or Video 18 ? ...
try them at your local rental ...
i've seen them on ebay 4200-6200 ( head, legs ,spreader) ...
i went with Video 20plus head with carbon heavy duty legs ...

there's used video 20 & 30 on ebay now ...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sachtler-20II-Tripod-Carbon-Fiber-2-stg-ENG-Spreader_W0QQitemZ190147958999QQihZ009QQcategoryZ3 0095QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130086294302&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003

oconner 1030 's

http://cgi.ebay.com/Oconnor-1030S-Like-Sachtler-Cartoni-Vinten-Miller_W0QQitemZ280148560506QQihZ018QQcategoryZ211 65QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD4VQQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Oconnor-1030B-Like-Sachtler-Cartoni-Vinten-Miller_W0QQitemZ280148560346QQihZ018QQcategoryZ211 65QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD4VQQcmdZViewItem

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Well, now it starts getting ugly. There just aren't budget tripod solutions in this price range.

The truth isn't always pretty. :(

I suggest taking a few different heads for a test drive at a local shop... One may feel better to you than another. I personally think the O'Connors have the best motion and feel to them. Many people prefer Sachtler, Vinten or other brands. Realistically, I may be going with a Vinten kit when the time comes and that's just because my ideal tripod -- the O'Connor 1060 will probably be out of my price range. I may go for a 1030B since it will serve me most of the time and I can rent a larger head like the 1060 for the times I need it. For Sachtler, the Video 15 and Video 18 heads look like a good choice. For Cartoni, a complete system with carbon sticks and a G100 Gamma head can be had for about $4500 new. For Vinten, the Vision 11 head supports 37lbs and gets a lot of good reviews too. Also check with local rental shops to see if they have any reconditioned or rental fleet units that they're selling.

One other option I brought up before here was to check ebay. Especially for older heads. An older O'Connor D50 head supports up to 50lbs and they can usually be had for around $350 off ebay. Usually just needs a bit of service and replacement of the cork pads (if they're still there) with newer rubber ones. They're a bit bulky, but have great motion if they're in proper working order.

Personally, I wouldn't skimp on the tripod system. This is going to be your primary support for the camera and will be needed for much of what you shoot -- you can't do everything hand-held.


One extra battery at $500 sounds like it might be a good idea. What about an Anton Bauer solution?

I think any V-Mount battery system that provides the 140Ah rating of the RED batteries will work. The AB solutions are very popular with many camera systems and I think they'll be fine. They're not any cheaper though.

[Paul Hazlett]

speaking from experience, a good tripod is worth its weight in Gold
I have a Cartoni that has served me well but it is the Gamma with 2 stage
tripod, 7 years ago it was 4000. Sachtler is on the top of the heap though

Youre spending alot for Red, but it is just part of the equation for a successfull shoot.

[Ben Feuer]

Thanks so much for all of the advice, guys. I guess I will just have to kiss the money goodbye when it comes to the tripod. :bye2:

Maybe I can skimp in a couple other areas. We'll see --

[Andrew Benz]

...I guess I will just have to kiss the money goodbye when it comes to the tripod. :bye2: --

Hi Penfever,

I promise that you will not be kissing your money away, it will actually make all the difference in the world in your footage. I am very frugal, but I understand the importance of owning a great fluid head. I will take it a step further and get an assortment of sticks, high and low-hats, cinesaddle and a ps technik skater mini in the next few months if all goes well. Trust me, the money could easily go elsewhere... Goodluck on your purchase... good luck with your up coming RED.

Cheers,

Andrew