The complete Red package

[gdv]

It came to me awhile ago that since the Red package including its accessories will be around $40K, a lot of private people will be able to afford owning it beside the big rental houses. This means that the owners will need to have other accessories than the Red's in order to have a useable production package.
I am trying to start a list of what private owners will need so they will not have to subrent a Pola filter.
Anyone who has an idea or can specify please contribute to it:
Camera head like O'conor Ronfordor or Schatler (please specify)
Standard legs baby & Hi Hat
Folow focus (Do the Red's rods are 15mm or 19 mm?)
Matte box
Set of full ND filters, ND grad (Any other?)
Pola filter
A monitor for the director + video cables (is it BNC or other?)
A monitor for the customer (In commercials)

[Seung Han]

Great idea.

Included price range for those of us private owners would also be nice...

[gdv]

These accessories will cost more than the whole Red package and even more if we include a set of lenses.
As for Matte box if you don't plan to use your camera for action or "heavy duty" shooting the Arriflex LMB-5 clip on matte box is a great thing. It runs around $3K with all the masks, top flap and additional adapters for different fron lens diameter.
In general I think Arriflex has the best products like follow focus, remote focus, matte boxes etc. (even film cameras this is after they took over Moviecam).
I think every owner should ask himself what his package will be used for, documentry, dramas, feature, commercial, and than custom it accordingly.

[PaulClements]

Hi,

I'm not sure I understand. There are already thousands of individuals signed up to purchase a camera and I'm sure they all have a pretty good grip on the accessories they will require (Third Party and Red accessories). I'm also fairly confident most people have an intended use for it too. You don't spend such a large amount of money without having either beforehand, unless you're rich and just like owning the best gadgets.

Paul

[Jeremiah McLamb]

A detailed list of accessories are good for people like me...who have been in the DVCAM to BETA run n' gun style world for a while and are ready to step it up now that there is an affordable and better alternative and move into a feature film style of shooting. Even though the price step isn't that big...the learning curve is...as in what tripod is recommended for a camera of this stature..what kind of follow focus works best...what filters will i need right off the bat and what matte box is best to put them in for my situation. Granted each person will require their specific setup...but a general idea of necessary accessories is a HUGE aid...atleast for me it is. I know there are a lot of pros out there that have purchased this camera and are on this forum..and for me that is a blessing..because I can now learn from them and share in their knowledge.

thanks
jeremiah

[Kristin Stewart]

It came to me awhile ago that since the Red package including its accessories will be around $40K, a lot of private people will be able to afford owning it beside the big rental houses.

I disagree with "a lot"... Red is certainly a great camera and has been waited for so long but it's not an indy tool. You have to be quite rich to be able to buy a $40K camera, and you only have the camera package. If you want a feature package, you'll have to put more money on sound (yes...) and lights... or rent...

The true revolution will happen when there will be a 4K camera for $6K. It will certainly exist someday... And Red will probably be there (I hope !)

[Seung Han]

I agree. I think this is a good idea. Not so much for the big rental or production houses but for independent filmmakers like me who will be starting to buy 'accessories' for the first time around their Red Package.

I have written and directed short films in the past from 16mm to DV formats and have worked professionally in post production, but this is the first time I feel that I could afford enough equipment for a mini-production studio.

I have spent the last four years writing and networking and now find myself somewhat in the dark of tech advances. Last time I researched was when mini-DV appeared. Since I am prepping a feature film for this winter and another in the fall of 08, I am very eager to learn as fast as possible. For the second project, I would like to have established my own production company in Seoul but since I have not been involved in production for so long any input or advice in a thread like this would be greatly appreciated.

Never underestimate the lack of knowledge from the next fellow...so instead of assuming everybody is up to your speed, help us catch up, after all that is the main reason for a community... No?:biggrin:

[Rocco Schult]

I disagree with "a lot"... Red is certainly a great camera and has been waited for so long but it's not an indy tool. You have to be quite rich to be able to buy a $40K camera...If you want a feature package, you'll have to put more money on sound (yes...) and lights... or rent...The true revolution will happen when there will be a 4K camera for $6K...

This doesn't fit - indy doesn't mean "we have no money" - its about less or lesser money maybe. Still there can be few hundred k's around and still it might be valuable for a small indy production to invest in red.
This camera absolutely attracts the indy market.
And making the supercam 10 or 11.5k$ less (in your example), wouldn't make a big difference in your sense as there is light and sound and ... so on.

[Kristin Stewart]

It depends on what you call "indy". For me it means "independant". The biggest problem of the entertainement people is that they're usually quite rich and wealthy and in some way are disconnected from reality. Most of the young technicians are in this business because of their dad or mom... $40K is twice this average ANNUAL salary of an American worker for example. And I don't even talk about about the other countries... In the movie business technicians, actors are usually overpaid in comparison with their real qualification. Most of them wouldn't even get a decent job if they had to work in a "real" world, in a real firm. I stay with my opinion : a "revolution" would be to have a $6K 4K camera. The Red camera is great, for sure. But it's just an evolution and a great business idea besides its evident qualities. When everyone will be able to get a 35mm equivalent picture, it will be a revolution.

[gdv]

Debate is good but what about the indy, or not indy, package list?

[donatello b]

" the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports the average annual wages in the U.S. as $36,764 for 2002."

"In 2006, the median annual household income according to the US Census Bureau was determined to be $48,201."

"the bottom 20% earned less than $23,202"

" 19.01% of all households had annual incomes exceeding $100,000"

[Seung Han]

Debate is good but what about the indy, or not indy, package list?



I doubt not indy (if you mean production companies and rental houses) need a list to procure more equipment, so I vote for packages for us indies (I guess who fall in some higher income bracket???).

Your thread is getting hijacked by crazy annual income surveyists.

Fight back!:angry03:

[Clint Johnson]

It depends on what you call "indy". For me it means "independant". The biggest problem of the entertainement people is that they're usually quite rich and wealthy and in some way are disconnected from reality. Most of the young technicians are in this business because of their dad or mom... $40K is twice this average ANNUAL salary of an American worker for example. And I don't even talk about about the other countries... In the movie business technicians, actors are usually overpaid in comparison with their real qualification. Most of them wouldn't even get a decent job if they had to work in a "real" world, in a real firm. I stay with my opinion : a "revolution" would be to have a $6K 4K camera. The Red camera is great, for sure. But it's just an evolution and a great business idea besides its evident qualities. When everyone will be able to get a 35mm equivalent picture, it will be a revolution.

The 2006 median household income (which is generally considered to be a better assessment of income that individual average) in the US was actually $48,201. This means that while a Red One is a considerable outlay for tens of millions of people, it also means that for tens of millions of people the Red One kitted out to $40,000 is simply a matter of desire not affordability.

There are millions of luxury and sports cars sold every year for more than $40k, thousands of planes and boats sell for ten times that. Getting a top line feature and TV camera capable of producing images as good as the best for only ten to twenty percent of the cost... that puts it into the hands of millions... if they want it.

And while I think that some of the wages on a union shoot are high, and that there are some who are there despite their lack of work ethic or skill level- the majority that I've had contact with have been competent and professional workers who ensure that the downtime on set is minimized.

Hiring a grip for $100 a day is a false savings if the cast and crew sits around for half the day waiting for them to fix a problem that a $200 a day grip would solve in minutes.

My biggest beef would be when the unions start telling me that I need a camera operator as well as a DoP... and that there can't be two directors... and that I need a genny op babysitting the genset... and so on, and so on... the union's function is to ensure as many dues paying people as possible are on a set at any given time and THAT is what is causing the problems. The individual wages may be a little steep but when you have a dozen people to do the work of five- that's where they hurt themselves the most.

[Rob Martin]

I am a Medium Format Digital User (Private, for fun) and want to do my own documentaries in Africa, China and Thailand (where I spend most of my time)

Dropping 40K or even 100K is not a "lets do it every day decision" but it's one one can make once one has all the facts. In MF Digital, a Digital back of 39MP is around 30K, add camera and lenses, you get the picture.

I am interested to know what I need to make it all come together.

:cold:

Rob

[Paul Kalbach]

These accessories will cost more than the whole Red package and even more if we include a set of lenses.
As for Matte box if you don't plan to use your camera for action or "heavy duty" shooting the Arriflex LMB-5 clip on matte box is a great thing. It runs around $3K with all the masks, top flap and additional adapters for different fron lens diameter.
In general I think Arriflex has the best products like follow focus, remote focus, matte boxes etc. (even film cameras this is after they took over Moviecam).
I think every owner should ask himself what his package will be used for, documentry, dramas, feature, commercial, and than custom it accordingly.

Check out the soon to be released microMattebox from www.redrockmicro.com. Target price is $500 with features equivalent to $3K. Also, nice follow-focus, etc.

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

I am budgeting about $85,000 for a complete RED package with tripod, matte box, follow focus, lenses, etc.

Then I'm not sure of the whole post workflow yet or whether what I have will be able to handle the footage, but it's possible another $40,000 in post-production expenses (a new Mac desktop, an XServe RAID with 10 terabytes, etc.).

[J.D. Frey]

there are indie movies with a budget of a million dollars (compared to hundreds of millions of dollars for non-indie movies) why couldn't an indie group afford the red? now instead of renting gear for a shoot they can buy gear for a shoot (or rent a red for less than other cameras?)

Anyway I'm just starting out and i'm interested in a gear list- can anyone advise on a red-worthy tripod?

[Jaime Vallés]

can anyone advise on a red-worthy tripod?

I would like to know this as well. I keep hearing "O'Connor, Vinten, Sachtler" but there are many different models and prices. I don't necessarily need a "brand name", just something that will support the RED ONE + accessories and is hopefully inexpensive ($1500-$2500 range, maybe?).