Can we get an Adobe workflow section Jared?

[Steve Freebairn]

Can we get a separate Adobe workflow section Jared?

[laguun]

Can we get a separate Adobe workflow section Jared?


I think that would be a good idea as well.

[Kevin Halverson]

I too would like to see a separate Adobe section.

[luis bustamante]

same here!

[Keith Nealy]

Yes, Please. Adobe is the only 4K solution.

[Zach Nelson]

I'd like to see this too!

[Elizabeth Lowrey]

Well if we're putting in requests for other NLE sections, I vote Vegas, especially since the new version will offer 32 bit float point video pipeline.:biggrin:

[vsv]

REDcode RAW->Cineform
Best codec ever for Adobe Premiere/AE and Vegas :biggrin:

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

With all respect to Jarred, (he probably is busy as hell) but why isn't there still an Adobe board? Is it much effort to make one? (and I'm not meaning that in a sarcastic way, I really don't know anything about website or forum building).
Or don't you just have the time?
Or is this Redcine board the board for PC and Adobe workflow?

[Cory Schulthies]

please Jarred, the adobe work flow for right now seem more complicated than the apple workflow, it would be nice for us to have a section where we can all give pointers to each other.

[John Tissavary]

Yes please - adobe/Red subforum.

[Zach Nelson]

still no adobe subforum or feedback :(

[SalaTar]

seems it not going to happen real fast, dosnt it?

[Steve Freebairn]

Probably because the threads in here have been so dead.

Here is something to spark a conversation.

I opened a 3840x1080 (1.5 pixel aspect ratio) project the other day on my new Master Collection system. Premiere handled 3 HDV streams playing side by side just great. Real time playback, Renders were huge though, like 1.6 gb for 7 seconds. Should be interesting to see how red footage is handled without any transcoding.

[Kevin Halverson]

OK, lets see if we can get something going on this thread. I have a meeting scheduled with Lucas from Assimilate when I get back from London at the end of the month, our work flow will likely be offline with Adobe and conform with SCRATCH. I will report back the outcome of our meeting once I have something a bit more concrete to offer.

So in the spirit of getting this thread going, here is an image (not shot on RED) but is related in that this is a location photo from a scene from an episodic pilot that I intend to shoot on RED.

http://www.museelectronics.com/production/scene_25_location_still.jpg

[Steve Freebairn]

Nice location!

[Zach Hilton]

Very nice location! It should be interesting to see the pilot through the eyes of Red!

[Joel Kaye]

So in the spirit of getting this thread going, here is an image (not shot on RED) but is related in that this is a location photo from a scene from an episodic pilot that I intend to shoot on RED.


Cool location. How are you going to handle the audio?

[Steve Freebairn]

Oh, In case some of you haven't seen. Adobe announced at IBC their P2 workflow. Supposedly it is the best out of the 3 A's. No rewrapping or transcoding. You just drop the files into Premiere and After Effects and you're good to go. It took them a long time, so hopefully they really did get it right. I really hope the Red support doesn't take nearly as long.

[conrad gaunt]

I like Adobe. Can premiere import clips greater than 4000x3000 yet?

[Kevin Halverson]

Cool location. How are you going to handle the audio?

I assume you mean audio in this location, not in general for the entire show (this particular location only represents about 5/8th of a page). I don't know how obvious it is from this still, but this is a really big tunnel. Its nearly 25' in height and several miles long. The reverberant dominance isn't as bad as you might guess, but it is way to high to make location sound usable, so the dialog in this scene will be all ADR.

The real challenge here isn't sound, its lighting. I have already done some testing and have an idea worked out, but I can tell you, it will be a real challenge.

OK, lets keep this thread going. Does anyone else have anything that they can add that is related even if in just a marginal way. I assume that everyone here is interested in an Adobe solution. I know that Graeme and Jim and other's at RED are aware of our interests, but its all about priorities and if we look to be too small of group then we will get pushed back in terms of effort (and this is certainly understandable given the massive task that they have and the size of the workforce).

[Kevin Halverson]

Oh, In case some of you haven't seen. Adobe announced at IBC their P2 workflow. Supposedly it is the best out of the 3 A's. No rewrapping or transcoding. You just drop the files into Premiere and After Effects and you're good to go. It took them a long time, so hopefully they really did get it right. I really hope the Red support doesn't take nearly as long.

This sounds like a great P2 solution. Not much help for me as I don't shoot P2 all that often (last time was in January) but glad that they finally got it right. Now lets hope that it doesn't take as long for a RED work flow in Premiere! Adobe is such a large entity that they tend to move like molasses.

[M Most]

Oh, In case some of you haven't seen. Adobe announced at IBC their P2 workflow. Supposedly it is the best out of the 3 A's. No rewrapping or transcoding. You just drop the files into Premiere and After Effects and you're good to go. It took them a long time, so hopefully they really did get it right. I really hope the Red support doesn't take nearly as long.

Avid has been able to read P2 files since the format appeared, without rewrapping or transcoding, at least for basic editorial. You can cut directly from files that are still living on the card if you want. Real time playout does require transcoding to DNxHD, however.

[Steve Freebairn]

I'm just quoting Adobe on their solution. I just know it took too long. But I'm glad it is here now. I don't shoot very much with P2 cameras either, but most of the effects shots that I work on are from p2 cameras so it will help to not have to walk the mac clients through how to export a pc compatible file :)

[vsv]

Info from John McGinley:

Short film (40 mins long) "Postcards From the Future" was shot digitally on the 4k Dalsa Origin, posted and edited with Adobe CS2 suite and is being projected digitally using the 4K Sony Digital projector, so there is absolutely no film grain at all. Those of you thinking about working in 4K may want to see what the end result can look like.

For more information:
http://www.postcardsfromthefuture.net/

[Thor Wixom]

I like Adobe. Can premiere import clips greater than 4000x3000 yet?

Ronx,

Adobe Premiere supports up to 4096 x 4096 natively.

-Thor Wixom

[Eric Edwards]

Id definitely like to see an adobe section here as well. Will most of you guys be using APPro 2 or CS3? I like 2, but haven't tried CS3 yet, but am assuming i'll have to go to that for 4k files.

BTW, what is scratch? I understand it is for conforming, but can anyone elaborate on it? and also, does anyhow have a link to it for more information? thanks.

[Joel Kaye]

BTW, what is scratch? I understand it is for conforming, but can anyone elaborate on it? and also, does anyhow have a link to it for more information? thanks.

http://www.assimilateinc.com/

I'm curious what codec those guys who shot the Dalsa used to edit in Premiere.

I'm definitely interested in an Adobe solution but I'll switch to FCP if that looks like a better way to go. The RED guys have said support for other apps will come via Quicktime wrapper. You should be able to save a Quicktime reference file from RedCine (takes seconds) start editing in Premiere.

I'm thinking I'll try editing the 1K extraction. They've been offline/onlining movies forever.

[Steve Freebairn]

My company will be using CS3, Adobe seems to be doing even better than in the past to release updates for there new products. Also the speed filter quality in CS3 is far superior to CS2. There are quite a few shots where I just use Pr instead of going to Ae.

[Eric Edwards]

Anyone know what Scratch costs? I cant seem to find it on their site.

[Joel Kaye]

Anyone know what Scratch costs? I cant seem to find it on their site.


http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4468

Be glad I got to you first.

[Eric Edwards]

Thanks, I appreciate it!

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

Still no adobe section...

[Thor Wixom]

Premiere CS3 is the only editing solution of the three A's (Adobe, Apple, Avid) to support 4k natively, and it does it 10-bit bit depth.

It really would be great to get an Adobe workflow section.

Please Jarred. Let's make this happen.

-Thor

[Eric Edwards]

Ya I agree, this is overdue, I think this could really help those Windows users out there who are running Adobe to get prepped before we get our hands on those cameras!

[Lucas Wilson]

Premiere is the only editing solution of the three A's (Adobe, Apple, Avid) to support 4k natively. Plus, it's also the only cross-platform solution.

It really would be great to get an Adobe workflow section going.

Please Jarred. Let's make this happen.

-Thor

Avid has been cross platform for about 10 years now.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

[Zach Nelson]

Adobe please...

please?

please!

[Thor Wixom]

Avid has been cross platform for about 10 years now.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

You're right. Wasn't thinking. Edited.

-Thor

[killfilm]

About to purchase the camera, and we cant get a simple answer,

where's the Adobe workflow?

[Chris Swartz]

I'll give you an Adobe workflow.

1. Capture footage to CF
2. Import footage into RedCine when available.
3. Convert footage to Cineform Prospect 2k.
4. Import footage into Premiere CS3.
5. Edit to your hearts content.
6. Export EDL to Scratch for 4k finish. (Or wait for Prospect 4k and finish in After Effects)

Chris

[laguun]

I'll give you an Adobe workflow.

1. Capture footage to CF
2. Import footage into RedCine when available.
3. Convert footage to Cineform Prospect 2k.
4. Import footage into Premiere CS3.
5. Edit to your hearts content.
6. Export EDL to Scratch for 4k finish. (Or wait for Prospect 4k and finish in After Effects)

Chris
you don´t need step 5/6 if you use premiere to online the 4k in uncompressed 16/10bit RGB444 at 4k.


btw: there is another thread demanding an adobe / windows forum
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=89846&posted=1#post89846

[killfilm]

the workflow sound great, but, what is meant by the thread is that..will cineform be given the oppurtunity to provide the proper support to edit in premiere?

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

One more vote for the Adobe section, when it becomes possible.

[ChrisLyon]

the workflow sound great, but, what is meant by the thread is that..will cineform be given the oppurtunity to provide the proper support to edit in premiere?
This question is being addressed thoroughly here:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3753

The short answer is yes. They are done with Prospect 4K which will be compliant with the 4K compatible Premiere Pro CS3 and are waiting for;

1) Tests with Redcode to make sure everything is working together like they plan
2) A viable market. Only a few hundred people own Reds right now so they are working on pricing to reflect the level of development they spent creating the product while being fair to clients.

Even in a few months, the number of 4K camera owners won't be enough for a nit-picky business owner to give two hoots about in comparison to the 720/1080 HD market they used to back the creation of CineForm in the first place.

I'd read the thread. David Newman does a wonderful job keeping us up to date from CF headquarters.

[Kevin Halverson]

I just got back from a demo of SCRATCH. I am very impressed, its a wonderful system and perfectly suited to a high end RED based work flow.

I strongly recommend to anyone even remotely interested, contact Lucas and arrange a demonstration. You won't be disappointed.

[Joe VanDalsem]

I just got back from a demo of SCRATCH. I am very impressed, its a wonderful system and perfectly suited to a high end RED based work flow.

I strongly recommend to anyone even remotely interested, contact Lucas and arrange a demonstration. You won't be disappointed.

2nd that.

[MikeHedge]

in the banner image they have an adobe "A" have you guys noticed it?

Jarred can you move all Adobe related threads into the new Adobe Workflow sub forum?

thanks

Mike Hedge

[MikeHedge]

http://www.24puser.com/openads/www/delivery/ai.php?filename=workflow.jpg

Notice the Adobe A on the right???

[laguun]

http://www.24puser.com/openads/www/delivery/ai.php?filename=workflow.jpg

Notice the Adobe A on the right???

this thread and the cineform thread have more responses than all of the other subforums together.

[Kevin Halverson]

It has been suggested that one possible reason that an Adobe forum hasn't been created is that there wouldn't be anything to populate it with. While this is partially true, I have not posted anything (and I have been doing testing) due to a lack of a proper place to post.

So, in the interest of keeping this line of conversation open, I suggest that everyone who has an interest post what their questions are and what they have learned thus far.

I will try and consolidate my findings and get something up in the next day or so. I suggest that others do the same.

Lets keep this positive and productive and more important, keep the bitching to a minimum.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

So, in the interest of keeping this line of conversation open, I suggest that everyone who has an interest post what their questions are and what they have learned thus far.

Please do post. There actually was never a lack of a proper place, just the Adobe sub-forum didn't get created at the time of the other three. And there's a few other sub-forums that we need too. Where's the SCRATCH sub-forum, for example?

I've sent a PM to Jarred to see if he can create the Adobe forum. I know he's busy, but the natives are getting restless. Seems a lot of people went off the deep end when he created sub-forums for Apple and Avid and not Adobe.

[Kevin Halverson]

Hi Jeff,

Yeah, its a bit of the "HEY, HE GOT ONE! WHERE'S MINE!"
I have kids so I am very familiar with this bit of human behavior!

I'll wait a day or two longer to see if Jarred gets it created and if not, I'll just post in the general workflow section.

I agree, we need a SCRATCH sub-forum as well, but one problem at a time.

Kevin

[Steve Freebairn]

(sorry About The All Caps, But I'm Rendering And Am Too Lazy To Hold Shift)

I Don't Know How I Was So Lucky, But I Was Recently (as In Last Night) Able To Do Some Previews From R3d Files And I Took The Opportunity To Test Out The Clips In Premiere And After Effects. Using Red Alert I Made Quicktime Reference Files, Which Is Almost Instantaneous Then I Opened Up That Reference File In Ae And It Worked Great, No Issues With 2k 1k Or The .5k.

Ae Will Not Be A Problem At All, It Worked Just Fine!!!!

Then I Created A Project In Premiere (the Beta Since I Don't Own The Mac Version) I Tried It All 3 Different Ways, With The Different Resolutions And It Worked Well Enough At 1k And .5k, But At 2k (which, By The Way This Machine (2.66 Quad Core Intel Mac Pro) Can't Play Back The Redcode Reference File Smoothly In Quicktime). The Files At 2k Are Just Too Much For The Realtime Decode With The Beta Version Of The Quicktime Codec So It Dropped Frames. The Footage And The Resolution Is Crazy. Even .5k Files Look Great On A 1080p Screen. The Only Issue In Premiere, Which I Don't Know If It Was Caused By Premiere Or The Redcode Codec, But There Is A Line That Shows Up About 1/4th From The Right. The Line Is Created By The Left Side Of The Screen Being Slightly Darker Than The Right. This Line Isn't Showing Up In Ae So I'm Not Quite Sure What Is Going On.

From What I've Seen And In The Brief Testing, Adobe Users Have Great Hope For Cutting With The Reference Files. I'll Probably Be Cutting .5k Stuff Because Of How Good It Looks, Then Onlining With 2k For 1080p Exports. This Info Will Obviously Change, But I Hope It Gives People Hope That Adobe Isn't Left Out Of The Game. I'm Also Posting This In The Adobe Workflow Section, But Figured It Would Help In This Thread Too.

[Dalibor Fencl]

the workflow sound great, but, what is meant by the thread is that..will cineform be given the oppurtunity to provide the proper support to edit in premiere?

Here we are: Adobe = CineForm. Same is Vegas.