Certification

[Gopher77]

Don't know if this has been disscussed, but it would be nice to have a way to get "Red" certified. Maybe classes or seminar with a test at the end. It would certainly help us in small venues market ourselves. Maybe start them there at Red headquarters then expand the programs to colleges and tech schools across the US and Internationally.

[Jason Francois]

I'm definitely in, although my basic level of cinematographic knowledge may count me out.

There have also been questions raised about RED Bootcamps...I think. That would be great as well. Although, I would figure that most people already have above basic knowledge. Maybe a RED Master Class or something.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

RED bootcamps would be nice I think...

As for certifications, I'm not a big fan of such things... Especially in technical fields and relating to technical products. The problem I have with certifications is the training to earn such a certified status is only the beginning and often has no bearing on how skilled, trained or experienced someone really is. Perhaps there's just too many meaningless certifications out there already (like MCSE) and I see too many aspects of everyday business being governed by meaningless certifications. I lost a contract 2 years ago on a large network installation because the general contractor I submitted the bid to decided he wanted to use Panduit brand racks, panels, etc.. And he wanted his installers to be "Panduit Certified" well shucks, but to get "Panduit Certified" I had to go take a 2-day seminar and pass their test on how to crimp network cables. Only problem was the only way to get "certified" was to fly to Oklahoma and attend there (nothing in my area for another 3 months), but the program there was already full. I and two of my installers were "Belkin and TrendNet Certified" did that matter? No.

OK, long winded example, but I'm not a big fan of certifications. If RED were to offer such a program, I would want them to make it a grueling process where it takes something special just to be accepted into the training program and it really means something special when you "graduate". Anyone who would be "RED Certified" better know the camera inside and and and can disassemble, clean the sensor and other vital parts and reassemble while blindfolded and hanging upside down. Because If I can fly out to RED Headquarters for a couple days and take a crash course on the thing with 150 other people for 8 hours a day where 80% of them pass the final exam, and where they sign up 150 more people the following week, then what exactly would the certification mean?

[Ken Willinger]

I've done some excellent courses at the Maine Workshops. A RED Master Class there would definately be worth attending.

[Gopher77]

If RED were to offer such a program, I would want them to make it a grueling process where it takes something special just to be accepted into the training program and it really means something special when you "graduate". Anyone who would be "RED Certified" better know the camera inside and and and can disassemble, clean the sensor and other vital parts and reassemble while blindfolded and hanging upside down.

Couldn't agree more, let the bootcamp be introductry and the certification be a certficate of mastery. Again I think it will help us market ourselves.

[Ken Willinger]

Are we talking about 2 different things here? As far as taking the camera apart, cleaning sensors, maintanance etc...I look at that as something a technical engineer would be doing.

As far as knowing how to USE the camera and all it's functions for every situation you may need it for, that is what I would be interested in being certified for.
Two different kind of certifications!

[donatello b]

i just don't see the operation of RED as difficult .. i got the feeling a consumer camera might be more difficult ( too many menu's) ...
i'm more in the "certified" should be for more then knowing how to operate the camera ...

[Blaine Golden]

I'm not sure a certified operator is what I'd be looking for in a cinematographer. If you find a good DP with experience on a variety of cameras, this shouldn't be a major challenge for him. It's his artistry I'd be looking for.

[Gopher77]

Well there's a lot going on with this camera. Red Code, Red Cine as well as the cameras operation. I'd think bigger productions would pay for not only the rental of the camera but a certified technical advisor to make sure there getting all they can from their setup, and to ensure nothing goes wrong. There could be different certs like operation, technician/maintenace, red code/redcine. These certs should be for master level, or at least state the level of certification ie lvI, II or III. Guys it's all about marketing, this is just another tool and also gives us a venue for training.

[Nook Kim]

I think what we are discussing here is kind of like, work-flow supervisor
certification. These days, with this lightening fast evolving digital film
technologies, the demand on work-flow supervisors are getting higher
by days. Unlike there are millions of proven "skilled" film guys, there
aren't too many people that know in's and out's of digital filmmaking
work-flow. Not only for Red One system, but for all the HD systems,
I think we can benefit quite a bit by having such a certification program.
Only by looking at all the subjects being discussed on this board, we
know how much one has to know to sell oneself as work-flow certified!

Nook

[Joel Kaye]

i just don't see the operation of RED as difficult .. i got the feeling a consumer camera might be more difficult ( too many menu's) ...
i'm more in the "certified" should be for more then knowing how to operate the camera ...

Except for total novices I'd agree. You're shooting raw all the time - so literally there are 2 adjustments: Focus and Exposure. Ok sound levels too..

I think people are going to figure these cameras and the redcine workflow out in a couple days. Anyone who doesn't probably just needs to post here what their issue is.

[GlennChan]

it may not be that simple?

for example, you could shoot 24p for a doc. the doc needs to be edited in a 60i timeline. if redcine doesnt add pulldown, the workaround will be ugly esp. if you shot time of day TC. if redcine can add pulldown, then you still need to watch out for TC issues. you may not realize you've screwed yourself until later.

or, you don't record guide track audio. maybe redcine can't sync your audio because it doesn't have that feature. But you may assume that it can, since isn't redcine supposedly be be analogous to telecine workflows?

2- that being said, redcine shouldn't be especially difficult.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

This discussion cuts two ways.

1) I expect the actual handling of the RedOne in the field to be pretty straight-forward. Having the RedOne interface with all departments on a bigger crewed show, particularly if you are using single system sound and sending various monitor outs around the set, might require a bit more technical knowledge. It'll still likely less be taxing than digging trough menus full of poorly worded options on a prosumer camcorder or changing settings on a paintbox.

2) The implementation of various workflow options may require a broader technical expertise that includes IT chops, LUT management and bulletproof data security procedures. Since most producers are not interested in risking their jobs it might make sense to create some sort of "certification" program, even if it has flaws, so that Red DITs can calm the fears typical of any new way of doing things.

The upside of reverse engineering the post production pipeline all the way back to the point of acquisition is large. Anything that can save money while preserving quality is likely to catch on. The benefits of RedCode, RedCine and a fully digital pipeline combined with smart planning will win producers and post supervisors over once best practices are established. IMHO this idea has legs.

[Joel Kaye]

Anything that can save money while preserving quality is likely to catch on. The benefits of RedCode, RedCine and a fully digital pipeline combined with smart planning will win producers and post supervisors over once best practices are established. IMHO this idea has legs.

I think these things can be laid out on the RED website or here for anyone to follow pretty easily. It's HIGHLY likely the guys at RED will come up with some very good workflows that could be tweaked by experienced digital set guys... like Scott Billups. RED could put up an online demo and a test. Fill out test, submit and check answers - you're certified. Yay.

But if someone comes out with the $1000 RED certification it'll just be pathetic. Just show me some video and the diagrams... I don't need to go to LA for a "pow wow" in person. IMHO, of course :-)

[Kyle Mallory]

I'd like to drag this topic Back from the Dead. I just spent 20 minutes on my porcelain thinking chair, contemplating this very topic.

The line of thinking toward the end of this thead (the last 3-4 posts), is what I've got in mind. Not necessarily a certification for operating a RED, but rather some kind of certification as a tech specialist, which could include some aspects of operation, indicating a certain competency of the camera and its workflow.

I am not sure the best way to administer such a certification, and I don't think it needs to be a $1000 RED class in Tulsa either. Anyone that can demonstrate an above average understanding of a RED workflow, in a variety of environments should be able to qualify.

I'm thinking, at the least something like a website, with a timed quiz. You register with your camera serial # (or something, since non-RED owners could become certified), and you can take a test up to three times (random questions from a question pool), per year. The questions could be updated and submitted by a variety of people (perhaps people from RED and REDUSER). If you pass, you get put on the site. If not, you don't.

So, as follow up to my suggestion... beyond comments regarding whether this is a good idea... I'd be interested in questions/answers that might be considered as part of such a process.