Rollin, rollin rollin...

[Evin Grant]

Redraw!
http://www.reduser.net/evin/rollin.jpg
http://www.reduser.net/evin/rollin2.jpg
Footage and stills to come...

[Shawn Nelson]

Sweet! I like it! Which Red is that?

[Sam Druckerman]

That's Blair's #19.

[explosive]

Cool. Road footage!

Out of interest, how much of the vibrations does a rig set up as such pick up from the road?

Car filming is always tough :(

[Evin Grant]

Not as much as you might think... Especialy if you let a little air out of the tires.

[Chris Nuzzaco]

more setup pics please :)

[Mark Mannschreck]

I'm almost positive I saw you guys today... We're you around Cahuenga/Barham at 7pm-ish?

(edited for content)

[explosive]

Not as much as you might think... Especialy if you let a little air out of the tires.

Cool. And what kind of speeds can one get with that kind of setup? I am guessing you wouldn't want to go THAT fast with deflated tyres.

[Evin Grant]

Not very fast today, 30ish tops, but I've done 70 with other rigs in this vehichle.

[explosive]

Not very fast today, 30ish tops, but I've done 70 with other rigs in this vehichle.

Holy crap!

[Evin Grant]

Check his out explosive...

http://www.evingrantdp.com/Infiniti.html

Shot on a DVX100 with a Cobra crane 1+.

[david farland]

How does it go for image stabilisation?

I've got same subaru and I swear i've tried everything...except let the tires down or adjusted the suspension (expensive).
I found roof mounting was worst, centre of car was best.

Dave,

[explosive]

Check his out explosive...

http://www.evingrantdp.com/Infiniti.html

Shot on a DVX100 with a Cobra crane 1+.

Cool. That looked very steady. How much do those babies cost to rent? (crane)

[Mark Mannschreck]

I don't know about renting but I bought the cobracrane 2+ for $499

http://www2.promax.com/CobraCrane-llplus?sc=2&category=330

It seriously works great dependant on your existing tripod head (I use with Sachtler 25II)

You'll need the 2 or 2+ with the weight of Red. I have used it with HVX and Digibetacam. The more the cam weighs, the more weights you strap onto the other side obviously. The Red should be between the Digibeta and HVX weight.

Don't underestimate how beefy your tripod/head should be! There's ALOT of weight altogether.

[explosive]

I don't know about renting but I bought the cobracrane 2+ for $499

http://www2.promax.com/CobraCrane-llplus?sc=2&category=330

It seriously works great dependant on your existing tripod head (I use with Sachtler 25II)

I'm trying REAL HARD to imagine how they mounted that thing to a car... but all i am picturing is a goat eating a can... hahaha

[Häakon]

Check his out explosive...

http://www.evingrantdp.com/Infiniti.html

Shot on a DVX100 with a Cobra crane 1+.
That's cool footage, Evin.

Did you have a permit for that? :bleh:

[Evin Grant]

Permit, HAH! Yea right, it's LA you have cinematic immunity!

[Brook Willard]

Heheh, looks like we forgot to post the footage. It's on a hard drive in Blair's car heading back to San Diego right now.

[Seth Larney]

Heheh, looks like we forgot to post the footage. It's on a hard drive in Blair's car heading back to San Diego right now.

Wow .. you guys rock, but man ..

:)

[Andrew Benz]

Heheh, looks like we forgot to post the footage. It's on a hard drive in Blair's car heading back to San Diego right now.

http://www.hydrogennow.org/Facts/hindenburg.jpg


Oh the humanity!!!!

[John Allardice]

http://www.damninteresting.com/wp-content/hindenburg_disaster_2.jpg

Oh the humanity!!!!

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/707_1188721626.jpg

[Andrew Benz]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/707_1188721626.jpg

LMAO... John your work is wicked! I hope you post alot more...

Cheers,

Andrew

[Evin Grant]

I'm compressing something now for you guys.

[Álex Montoya]

Thanks a lot, Evin.

[Sam Druckerman]

Evin to the rescue....

And to think I almost went to bed.

Thanks!

[Brook Willard]

Heheh, I'm excited to see it too...

[Evin Grant]

http://www.reduser.net/evin/garage.mov

Nothing special just a nice garage shot but it has two totally different lighting environments and a transition. It's a 1k I just don't have the time to process a 2K H264 before bed. All the strange blocking is an H264 thing. I've got to get those settings dialed in better.

[Andrew Benz]

Thanks Evin!

[Álex Montoya]

It's very nice.

[Brook Willard]

Nice...

As dark as it gets at the end, though... there *is* data there all the way into the shadows. It could be brought up a few stops to see everything.

[Andy Fordham]

Wow ! It blows you away the first time you see it.

What lens do you have on there Evin ???

[Evin Grant]

And a TIFF.
You guys wanted it you got it. This is essentialy an unprocessed 4K TIFF, nothing but a WB and nominal EI of 500. No curve or DI fiddling, just REC709 GAMMA and color space. Have at it!
http://www.reduser.net/evin/garage.tiff

(Hold on still uploading)

Oh, the 18-50 Red.

[Andrew Benz]

Evin, I am really looking forward to your impressions of the 18-50 Red Zoom.

Cheers again -- get some sleep yo!

[Simon Blackledge]

Thanks Evin!.. looking forward to playing with the tiff :)

si

[Sam Druckerman]

No magic focus assit....

How hard was it?

[Evin Grant]

Not too bad, glad I brought my 8.5" Pany HD though.

[Brook Willard]

You know what? Remember that post I made a while ago where I said that you wouldn't be able to focus with a 720p monitor? I was completely wrong. There's not much else to say... I'm embarrassed that I ever said it. Focusing was a snap... almost easier to focus with the screens than with an OVF.

Why? Because there's never that doubt that your eye is getting used to it or that your diopter slipped. One of the user preset buttons on the side is currently set to double the size of the image [not 1:1, but close]. Click that, focus, click it again and roll. Everything we shot was eye focused... never used a tape and only pulled focus on a few shots [that you guys haven't seen]. Every shot or still that has been posted thus far was focused by the operator. Granted it's not all milkgirls sharp... but it's certainly not bad.

I can't wait to see how it is with the pixies.

[Sam Druckerman]

I LOVE what I'm hearing!

Thanks guys....

LOL I'm going to sleep Great tonight.

[Hrvoje Simic]

Thanks, Evin. Looking forward to Nikon test footage.


Nice...

As dark as it gets at the end, though... there *is* data there all the way into the shadows. It could be brought up a few stops to see everything.

I would really like to see that, if it's not a problem. After you guys get some sleep.

[Hrvoje Simic]

You know what? Remember that post I made a while ago where I said that you wouldn't be able to focus with a 720p monitor? I was completely wrong.

Which 720p monitor was that ? Sorry if it was mentioned before.

[Brook Willard]

Evin's little Panasonic thing. I forget the model...

[Roberto B]

You know what? Remember that post I made a while ago where I said that you wouldn't be able to focus with a 720p monitor? I was completely wrong. There's not much else to say... I'm embarrassed that I ever said it. Focusing was a snap... almost easier to focus with the screens than with an OVF.

Why? Because there's never that doubt that your eye is getting used to it or that your diopter slipped. One of the user preset buttons on the side is currently set to double the size of the image [not 1:1, but close]. Click that, focus, click it again and roll. Everything we shot was eye focused... never used a tape and only pulled focus on a few shots [that you guys haven't seen]. Every shot or still that has been posted thus far was focused by the operator. Granted it's not all milkgirls sharp... but it's certainly not bad.

I can't wait to see how it is with the pixies.the best news i've heard.. this type of feedback rocks.. it's tremendously usefull..

actually, i never liked viewfinders.. it's not democratic..

[Hrvoje Simic]

Isn't it something like 1024x768 ?

If it is, 720p will be even better to focus with.

[Evin Grant]

BTLH900a and yes it is 1024x768 but it also has focus zoom mode.

Here's a version of the garage tiff I've finished in photoshop. I don't yet know how to make a Tiff or QT look like this out of Red Alert but I do know PS so here it is with some chroma noise reduction a slight unsharp mask and a little curve+CC. Pretty awesome for an image that was shot from a moving car in multiple changing lighting conditions.

http://www.reduser.net/evin/PSgarage.tif

[Casey Green]

Garage footage came out great! Very Cool.

BTW, Brook, Evin, Blair, and Tonaci: It was excellent hanging with you guys tonight! (I'm back in L.A. now). Thanks for letting me come down and play around with the camera a bit, and for the opportunity get to know you all better...

You guys did a great job on the tests and are all Pros. I look forward to the LART adventure!

Now time to all get some sleep!

[Roberto B]

http://www.reduser.net/evin/PSgarage.tiff

it doesn't work..

i'd actually like to know since i found the last one really bad w/ all that yellowish noise..

[Álex Montoya]

The PSgarage.tiff doesn't work.

The other one is not bad, but I believe that playing with exposure, you could extract a little bit more of info on the highlights. BTW, the frame looks slightly out of focus... could it be so?

[Simon Blackledge]

Considering like you say how it was shot.. very nice... take alot of punishment!

http://idisk.mac.com/simonblackledge/Public/RED/garagePP.tif



the only issue I had was in the shadow area under the hero vehicle.

Thanks again Evin.

Si

[Karl H]

Hi Evin,

what ISO was this shot at? At 4K it looks pretty grainy, like 1000 or maybe 2000?

downressed you cant see any of the noise.

[McDiver]

It's mislabeled. Try http://www.reduser.net/evin/PSgarage.tif

[Roberto B]

thx

it's a hell of a difference.. what a relief!

please, add always a disclamer when you want to post crappy stuff..

another question (not to my beloved evin):

isn't there in LA good directors to handle w/ the task?..

i'd like to watch decent images.. hollywood aspirants, i'm sure it would be enough.. good framing.. interesting subjects.. gorgeous gals..

pappas where are you?


edit
i wouldn't ask for a certain young man on the dark side that i'm thinking about and you stephen well know.. since that jerk is on the wrong side.. but i wondering what someone like him could give us.. sure, if he wasn't that jerk.. i'd like to see him w/ a red these days.. i hope you stephen may link him this post.. it'd be interesting if he'll know what he's missing being the vader part since day one.. a message to him: if you're a guy w/ a view to give, bring a free spirit to your mind.. and don't try to be a copy -> past cloning the older hierarchy.. mike leigh wouldn't say better than myself.. ask him!

[Álex Montoya]

Wow, gang, you're being quite ungrateful

[Simon Blackledge]

Me ? :-/

[Roberto B]

no, no.. please don't misunderstood my meaning.. these guys are great people.. i love them.. i'm talking about directing.. something that i do for living.. sorry, but to each his own.. they do their job probably better than i've done what i should.. i hope till i'll have my red.. ehehehehe

[Roberto B]

only a disclamer: there's a lot of misinformation about the directing craft.. this forum should have a subforum related.. cinema is not only bits and bytes.. :) don't think it as a good common sense because it is not..

to be a shooter doesn't necessarily mean to be a director, ok?.. a shooter has no this obligation.. rule number one on any film school.. a good one

[Jim Arthurs]

It's a 1k I just don't have the time to process a 2K H264 before bed.

How long is it taking to process? That was a 38 sec or so clip... and is 2K slower than 1K to make? I wouldn't think so, off-hand...

[Álex Montoya]

Hmm, comparing the garage unprocessed tiff and the 1k mov at the same size it looks as something has happened to the highlights in the TIFF.

They don't look so clipped, by far, in the quicktime.

[Simon Blackledge]

Possible he just meant an encode to h.264 at 2k would take longer?

[Laco Zamba]

Why is this part noisy?

[Roberto B]

did you only find that part there?.. :) :)

take a glance on the last one posted by evin.. it's another story.

[Roberto B]

on the phone, a minute ago.. a friend of mine.. colorist.. not at the technical side.. director too but used to cc his own digital stuff.. said it's necessary to find the dominant color and to extract what's bothering.. noise bothering..

[Floris Liesker]

i wouldn't ask for any max jacoby.. since that jerk is on the other side.. but i wondering what someone like him could give us.. sure, if he wasn't that jerk.. i'd like to see him w/ a red these days..

Who are you?

[Roberto B]

ahhh, this is a mystery shared only for a few of friends, dear dutch floris..

shortly?.. several people.. a gang in the strict sense of the meaning.. :)

[Floris Liesker]

Never mind.

[Álex Montoya]

lol...

[Roberto B]

:) :) :) :) the gang..

[Floris Liesker]

Wow, cool. A gang. Like those guys dancing around in 'Beat it'.

[Álex Montoya]

That's it.

BTW, what's going on in the blue channel of the garage.tif file?

[Roberto B]

i said gang.. the filmmaker is.. how can we know?.. maybe having good fun on his bedroom on a sunday's morning.. :)


Wow, cool. A gang. Like those guys dancing around in 'Beat it'.

'beat it' from MJ's?.. it's old, pal.. we're young people.. ;-)

[Simon Blackledge]

Maybe, but nothing beats good old experience ;)

[Roberto B]

agreed.. ;) but that clip sucks.. :)

edit
off topic talk.. nothing red camera related


Like those guys dancing around in 'Beat it'.

[Evan Owen]

That's it.

BTW, what's going on in the blue channel of the garage.tif file?

First of all, yeah the blue channel is really bad, but can you believe the quality of the image overall? That shot is just incredible. The dynamic range and smoothness of the image blows me away. It looks so much like film, just without the grain... beautiful.

But if you want to get nit-picky (why? haha), there are a few issues. And it's not just the blue channel. If you look at the red channel, you'll see "halos" around the high-value red areas and corresponding "shadows" in the blue channel. Is it the debayer algorithm? No idea...

[EDIT] Just out of curiosity, I looked at hero.tiff, and cropped out part of Blair's shirt. It looks to me like the red channel is being compressed quite a bit more than either of the others. It doesn't seen to be just the lack of red and blue resolution in the bayer pattern...

[Simon Blackledge]

Yet Jim says he loves the blue channel..

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4182

Seperate this shot out.. the blue looks softer, unlike the underground shot where the red does.

Not that I understand any of this :-/ lol

s

[Steen Linde]

Hi Evin
I haven´t seen any stills from the first 25 kameras with the viewfinder.
Is the viewfinder not ready yet?

Best regards
Steen Linde

[Evan Owen]

Yet Jim says he loves the blue channel..

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4182

Seperate this shot out.. the blue looks softer, unlike the underground shot where the red does.

Not that I understand any of this :-/ lol

s

You're right, the channels in the shot of the engine that he just posted show exactly the opposite of what we're seeing on the PSgarage.tif and hero.tif shots.

Graeme, could this be related to how the files are processed in REDAlert!?

[Simon Blackledge]

Alright you film guys... if you were to shoot that garage shot for a feature would the headlights have been tinted with gels ?

[Anders Holck]

Hi Evin
I haven´t seen any stills from the first 25 kameras with the viewfinder.
Is the viewfinder not ready yet?

Best regards
Steen Linde

Steen, someone mentioned that the viewfinders would start delivery next week.
Dont know if that was a solid fact...

[Carl-August Savgård]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/428936-REG/Panasonic_BT_LH900APJ_Panasonic_BTLH900A_8_4_LCD.h tml

[jbeale]

BTW, what's going on in the blue channel of the garage.tif file?

Here's another question: what is the lighting source(s) in the scene? I believe this is a parking garage at night. I'm guessing the lighting is mostly fluorescent (no doubt cheap fluorescent). What are the spectral components of this light? What is the overall light level, and how much blue is there as opposed to green, and red?

What comes into the lens is the product of the light source and all the stuff in the scene. If there is less blue to start with, and if in the camera or somewhere in the post chain there is a "white balance" which gains up the blue to compensate, then surely blue channel noise will result. Note, I have no idea if this relates to what's going on here, this is just a general observation.

If you shoot a scene that has more blue to start with, like an overcast daytime exterior, I bet the channel noise comparison would be quite different.

[Steve Sherrick]

Hmmm. there are some oddities when looking at these stills. The QT clip seemed a better image to me overall, so I'm trying to keep all of this in perspective until more stuff is shot and the production value goes up. I appreciate the work everyone is doing so far trying to get us footage to see for the first time, so I'm not disappointed by any means, just trying to analyze what is being put in front of us until this point.

Keep shooting guys, this will all be very useful to the rest of us waiting in the wings for our cameras.

Steve

[donatello b]

" could this be related to how the files are processed in REDAlert"

unless the 4k RAW clip is posted we are seeing clips/stills that have been processed ..using same RAW clip/still - you put 10 different persons adjusting it with RedAlert you are going to get 10 different images = some will hold the whole exposure range and others will blow out highlights or crush the blacks ..
we're commenting on the processed still/clip - from what i've seen so far - it seems most posted clips were adjusted to look good on their monitor ( that was not set up to any spec ) ...
it's going to take some time for us to learn a little more then the basic's of being a colorist ...

[Keith Alan Morris]

I really dig these shots, Evin and Brook. Your posts give me a lot of hope for shooting something nice with existing light! I get what you're doing.

[Evin Grant]

Thanks. We know this camera can produce stunning images in good light, most cameras can do well in good light. Were trying to figure out how it handels in bad light. And it realy does record an amazing amount of detail. The problem really is we've had Red Alert and Red footage for less than 48 hours. This is not DVCProHD where you just pop it into an NLE and go. You really have to tweak the dark stuff to get all that's there. We just don't have the experience the Red team has so were going through some growing pains, unfortunately for us there's about a thousand of you watching.

[Roberto B]

i'm still waiting for your framings..

here they are..
http://www.evingrant.com
http://www.evingrantdp.com
http://www.evingrantphoto.com

[Jack Wester]

We just don't have the experience the Red team has so were going through some growing pains, unfortunately for us there's about a thousand of you watching.
Rest assure that there's more than a thousand of us watching :matrix: :-)

[PaulClements]

Good stuff Evin

Keep it coming m8.

[McDiver]

That's over a thousand people watching AND learning.
Which makes you guys our virtual Professors (and guinea pigs :)).
So a BIG thankyou. (I've been obsessing, in Shake, over your flat garage tiff for hours, and really enjoying it.)
In a way, I feel I can learn more about the Red camera workflow from watching you "stumble" and stand up, than from reading something that's polished, but shy on the nitty-gritty details.
At this point in the game, no matter what you post, it has value.
So, again, THANKYOU.

[Graeme Nattress]

Yup, could be processing or could be the colour temperature of the light source used. You may want to turn off the output sharpening when you export the images and see if that helps. I'm working on improved output sharpening.....

Graeme

[McDiver]

Graeme, you are the man! Still grinding away while everybody's out playing. Too bad you don't have a number; I'd buy your jersey and hang it on my office wall :)

[Graeme Nattress]

Yup, coding up some new REDAlert! features that will make people happy, I hope :-)

Also, got to remember, the camera has updatable firmware, so as we find things, we can work on changing or improving things for the future - that's Jim's principle of fluidity.

Graeme

[Brook Willard]

Hi Evin
I haven´t seen any stills from the first 25 kameras with the viewfinder.
Is the viewfinder not ready yet?

Best regards
Steen Linde

I got my hands on an EVF this weekend...

[Unwounded]

..............and?

[Simon Blackledge]

Dirty Brook!.. lol...

[Brandon Fraley]

Evin, Brook, do you what the ISO of the footage was?

[Brook Willard]

The EI was previewed in camera between 1,000 and 2,000 ISO... but who knows how it was processed. Evin was riding the iris as well, if memory serves.

Parts of the footage are maybe 320 or 500 and parts are 1,000 or greater. Playing with the curve is fun.

[Joe Carney]

Check his out explosive...

http://www.evingrantdp.com/Infiniti.html

Shot on a DVX100 with a Cobra crane 1+.

The most excellent music is from GoldFrapp, album Black Cherry.

[Jendra]

more setup pics please :)
More set up pics from OffHollywood's Saturday Brooklyn test shoot (Steadicam stuff, not the stunt cars) at http://picasaweb.google.com/aftongrant/RED

I can be seen taking stills in a few of the pics, and many of these pics were taken by me.

Jendra Jarnagin, DP
www.floatingcamera.com

[Evin Grant]

Hi Jendra! nice to see you on the board finally.

[Brook Willard]

Setup pics are on my website in my signature.

[Jendra]

Hi Jendra! nice to see you on the board finally.

Yah, I've been impatient with sorting through all the posts that didn't have anything worthy to say. That all changed yesterday!

Do I get a special avatar for being an "insider?"

Jendra Jarnagin, DP
www.floatingcamera.com

[Jeff Kilgroe]

More set up pics from OffHollywood's Saturday Brooklyn test shoot (Steadicam stuff, not the stunt cars)

Cool.

I really, really wanna see the steadicam footage with that 8mm fisheye. :)

[Evin Grant]

Do I get a special avatar for being an "insider?"
Jendra Jarnagin, DP
www.floatingcamera.com

You get to pick your own Avatar but you'll always be special to us:love:

[Shawn Nelson]

Cool.

I really, really wanna see the steadicam footage with that 8mm fisheye. :)

Ooh! Is that the 8mm Peleng fisheye or a different one? I couldnt get the picture big enough for me to tell. I've long been curious what an 8mm fisheye would look like on Red. Even a screen cap would be awesome!

[Brook Willard]

I wish I could get Arri's 8R on there for some shooting...

[Andrew Benz]

I wish I could get Arri's 8R on there for some shooting...

I wish you could as well... or even their LWZ-1.:love:

[Brook Willard]

I really want to compare the LWZ and Cooke's equivalent to the CFZ... all in time.

[Mike Prevette]

Doesn't look like the peling. Looks like a century Nikon conversion.

http://picasaweb.google.com/aftongrant/RED/photo#5105817622658403554
http://picasaweb.google.com/aftongrant/RED/photo#5105817644133240082

[Sanjin Jukic]

http://lh3.google.com/aftongrant/RtuCGHZ7zRI/AAAAAAAABqc/_D_TLJHywmU/DSC_8342.jpg

http://lh5.google.com/aftongrant/RtuCGnZ7zSI/AAAAAAAABqk/OGEXWDIo0Yw/DSC_8349.jpg

http://lh6.google.com/aftongrant/RtuCI3Z7zYI/AAAAAAAABrU/-NsgwomQpo0/DSC_8378.jpg

[Rob Lohman]

Hi Jendra! Looks like you were right in the middle of all the fun :)

[Chris Nuzzaco]

Thanks for the pics Jendra :)

[Jannard]

First of all, yeah the blue channel is really bad, but can you believe the quality of the image overall? That shot is just incredible. The dynamic range and smoothness of the image blows me away. It looks so much like film, just without the grain... beautiful.

But if you want to get nit-picky (why? haha), there are a few issues. And it's not just the blue channel. If you look at the red channel, you'll see "halos" around the high-value red areas and corresponding "shadows" in the blue channel. Is it the debayer algorithm? No idea...

[EDIT] Just out of curiosity, I looked at hero.tiff, and cropped out part of Blair's shirt. It looks to me like the red channel is being compressed quite a bit more than either of the others. It doesn't seen to be just the lack of red and blue resolution in the bayer pattern...

If you are seeing noise, blue channel or not, you are doing something wrong. That does not mean that our image is noiseless, it means that it has less noise than anything else we have shot or seen given the same conditions... BUT, that is dependant on the fact that nothing was done in processing to screw it up. And there are a ton of things you can do to degrade the image. We need to start a list of "things NOT to do"...

And when you say that the blue channel is really bad, please let us know what you are comparing to to give that opinion. Also, I have heard a lot of critique that should be directed to the methodology of how an image was treated to get it posted. As soon as you compress or change color space, things will change. Just for fun, download the garage shot, open in Photoshop in Adobe 1998 color space (the most common one). I think you will be very surprised at what you see.

Jim

[Joel Kaye]

download the garage shot, open in Photoshop in Adobe 1998 color space (the most common one). I think you will be very surprised at what you see.


I did that and was surprised. It looks great and you can grade it to look like any time of the day or night. I'm not even sure when they shot it now - but if it was night time... I guess I'd be REALLY curious to know how lit up that garage was.

[Evin Grant]

WFO! T3 at ISO500 I'd say the image was also about 2/3 under too.
Pretty cool huh?

So much of this is about learning to procces the Redcode efficiently and get the look you want. I have no doubt that all the info I'm looking for is there. But the trade off of such a powerful and flexible image is how to get to it.
We really have so much to learn.