View Full Version : REDCINE-X Re-Grade for Feature Film

Aaron Hucker
02-10-2010, 07:32 AM
I'm looking for some workflow help here, but before I start I'll layout my setup and current state on the feature.

-Shot 4k 2:1 (2.40 guides for final) on Build 17 over a year ago.
-Transcoded to 720p using RED ALERT!/RED RUSHES for edit on FCP
-Working on Rough assembly but no rough edit yet

So this is where I am now, and I have a workflow question I'd like to ask you all regarding REDCINE-X

I know the workflow on Conforming in Clipfinder/RED ALERT/RED RUSHES, and I could go that route very easily, but the new color science in REDCINE-X is very tempting (I've done tests and am blown away)

What I would like to do, as well as find out if this is possible, is Re-Grade ALL my footage using RC-X, then, once we have a rough edit, only transcode the footage corresponding to the FCP timeline in RC-X at 1080p for a final edit (and do it again later for finishing in 3k or 2k, but lets not worry about this too much yet)

Is this possible? Can I take the XML data (sorry if its not XML, i get confused with the terms) from my rough edited timeline and tell REDCINE-X to transcode ONLY the footage from that timeline, even though I've Graded every shot from the film?

I know it may sound crazy to re-grade everything first as opposed to just waiting for the rough edit, but I'm not doing the edit myself, and I figured so we have the options down the road, I'd just re-grade everything. I've done this before using RED ALERT for another film and it worked out great, and it didn't take that long.

Sorry for all my long winded posts, but so far you guys have been super helpful with my other questions, so hopefully we can keep the trend going.

Thanks in advance! sorry for my lack of terms and knowledge in this area!

PS. I do not have a rocket card, if that matters at all for workflow purposes other then speed. I know i should get one.

Aaron Hucker
02-10-2010, 08:16 AM
I just saw this.. should have checked before i posted.


but is there other ways? I'm open to options.

Aaron Hucker
02-10-2010, 09:08 AM
Just to be more clear...

I want to Grade ALL my footage in RCX
Once I have an edit, I want to export the XML and use RCX to transcode ONLY the footage in the XML (with handles is possible) to 1080p for use in FCP

is this possible? if not what are my options?

thanks in advance.

Aaron Hucker
02-10-2010, 10:51 AM
sorry, I forgot to mention, I am not using RCX to do a Final Grade

just doing a grade so we can get a better looking timeline, maybe do a run through in color to get some looks and to have a decent looking version to watch.

joe hedge
02-10-2010, 10:58 AM
Are you aware of what Monkey Extract is and what it does? It might be what you're looking for.

Also are you aware that there is no way to modify the actual R3D?

Aaron Hucker
02-10-2010, 11:40 AM
Also are you aware that there is no way to modify the actual R3D?

very much.

i'll look into monkey extract more, i've heard of what it does, but never used it.

02-10-2010, 11:42 AM
I would import your xml into clipfinder and then either via "prepare clip directories for L&T" move or simply copy all of the r3d files used in your edit to a new folder/drive then import those clips into RC-X. Once you are happy with the grade render those clips and then again with clipfinder conform your original XML to the new clips.

If you are asking if there is a way to render only the in/out points and then generate a new xml that will conform to the "subclips" you will need rubber monkey or such and then not have access (at present) to the new RC-X tools.

This will all hopefully change soon as RC-X continues in its development.

Aaron Hucker
02-10-2010, 11:49 AM

your first option is good, however I don't have an edit yet, so I'd have to wait until the edit is complete to go that route.

I would like to RCX grade all the footage, incase the editor goes back and changes his mind later, using an alternative clip, its ready to go when he is (in a way)

I just don't want to transcode EVERYTHING again, We dont have the time or storage for that.

I'd love if I could do a first light grade (in RCX) on every clip. then transcode only what is on my FCP timeline at a later date (the timeline does not yet exist)

I'm looking into rubber monkey extract right now, however, I don't see anything (looked for 5 mins) about REDCINE X, is it supported yet?

Aaron Hucker
02-10-2010, 11:55 AM
I don't see anything in Monkey Extract about RedColor, or RedGamma

These are the reasons I am asking about REDCINE-X, I can do what I want to do through REDALERT/REDRUSHES/CLIPFINDER but the reason I asked about REDCINE-X was because of the New color science.

02-10-2010, 12:32 PM
I'm a little confused but I think I get what you mean - you want to pre-grade the material but not export it till the edit is locked. So in other words you are worried about losing the grade once you move the r3d files around ie. via clipfinder?

Aaron Hucker
02-10-2010, 12:35 PM
I'm a little confused but I think I get what you mean - you want to pre-grade the material but not export it till the edit is locked.

exactly, not sure about your last part though..

I may just render it all out to 1080 and go from there.

02-10-2010, 12:55 PM
Well..... what I outlined above in my first post will work to get from an fcp XML a list of every clip that was used in your edit. You can then move or copy to a different directory those clips. In RC-X you can then navigate to that directory and will see a list of every clip that was used in your edit. You can then grade, export and then relink to the new rendered files using the new color science and FLUT control.

My comment at the end regards the fact that at present (hopefully soon to change) any grading you do will not be carried through if you move the file. One work around that comes to mind is to save as a seperate preset every grade you do based on the clip name. But this seems like a lot of extra work and not very practical. Another would be to somehow remove from the directory every clip not used in the xml but again this seems like it is more trouble than its worth.

So unless someone can think of a better way I'm afraid you will have to wait till either the grading info follows the clip (as it presently does with .rsx files) or till RC-X can directly conform an XML or EDL file, something that RED has stated they are working on already.

Aaron Hucker
02-10-2010, 01:07 PM
Yup, looks like I'm doing the full 1080 transcode of all 22 hours of footage. Yikes. Thanks for the help.

Craig Parkes
02-10-2010, 06:37 PM
Yup, looks like I'm doing the full 1080 transcode of all 22 hours of footage. Yikes. Thanks for the help.

Aaron, I have to ask, WHY? You don't need a perfect colour space, exposure or even 1080 resolution etc for your offline, you already have files with timecode to edit from why not just the existing 720P footage for your offline with the old tools, then get a pull list out of Clipfinder selecting on the shots you have actually used, then grade and render those for export from RedCineX and conform the NEW Redcine X quicktimes using clipfinder (or by the time you have finished there may well be tools to do the conform automatically from XML)

You don't need to render from clipfinder to use it's conform features.

Aaron Hucker
02-10-2010, 08:34 PM
Craig, I appreciate your view, although I haven't shared all the details of what goes on in the office discussions as well.

We may end up finishing in 1080p for the time being, and until someone else decides they'll pay for a film out or a 3k delivery, we'll stick with the 1080

the reason I will now do all the footage is simply because the edit isnt done, not even a rough one yet, so our decision here is to give the editor something much nicer to look at across the board (our 720s are ugly as hell compared to some tests i've done in RCX)

it will help us make a desicion on what shots we use, and what we might (potentially) re-shoot if time / money allows.

Having new clean 1080s will help us decided where we actually are in the process, and where we will go from there.