Some new/old color science questions and images [Archive]

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Mike N

02-17-2010, 11:16 AM

Hello,

I've just finished shooting a personal project on the RED and I was considering options for post concerning image quality since not all editing applications support the new color science.

I did a little test to see what i would lose in quality between the old color science and the new one. The results were pretty incredible since I can't see any real difference between footage processed with the old Redcine vs. footage from Redcine-X. That being said I remember users posting before/after comparisons of their footage back when the new build supporting the new color science was released.

I shot using build 21 with HMI or gelled (CTB) light sources. Could this be why the differences (if any) are so hard to see ?

to illustrate i'm going to post some crops from a frame I exported from Redcine and Redcine-X.
Both sets of crops were processed with the same settings (Camera RGB, Gama 709) but the difference is that on the second set I tried to also match the color temperature because as you can imagine there is a difference in color between the 2 applications.
I shot at 5100K and in Redcine I had to lower down the collor temp to 4187K to make them look almost the same.

I uploaded all the files in an archive which you can download from this location: (changed download location, first one was very slow)
http://drop.io/RedTest#
Password if it asks: redtest

I would directly upload them here but each TIFF file has about 2.5 megs and I don't know if I can upload a size this big or if it's a good idea to do this.

I also put the whole frame in JPG format just for reference.

After seeing this I have a hard time not choosing CS4 and importing the Red files directly over choosing Avid with it's Metafuze since it's the only software on the PC that supports the new color science.

So what's your opinion about this.

thanks,
Mike

Mike N

02-18-2010, 04:17 AM

Hmm...nobody has any opinions about this ? I was curious to know your thoughts and see if I'm right in my assumptions or not.

Miltos Pilalitos

02-18-2010, 05:00 AM

After seeing this I have a hard time not choosing CS4 and importing the Red files directly over choosing Avid with it's Metafuze since it's the only software on the PC that supports the new color science.

CS4 is hardly the only software on the PC that supports the new colour science. Sony Vegas supported it at least 3 months earlier. It's also supported on eyeon's Fusion 6 if you are interested in doing FX work and i think that Nuke is also supporting it in it's latest version.

Mike N

02-18-2010, 08:07 AM

Miltos,
Yes I believe you but this doesn't really matter because from my tests there isn't any difference between a file rendered out with the old Redcine and a file rendered with the new Redcine-X, at least that's what i'm seeing. This is why I wanted someone else's opinion.

Miltos Pilalitos

02-18-2010, 08:32 AM

Mike,

I haven't used the old Redcine for at least a year so i am not sure which colour science it uses now. Let's try to be more specific so everybody understands what you are comparing. There are 3 colour sciences:

A) Old colour Science
B) New Colour Science
C) Newest colour Science (introduction of REDcolour, REDgamma)

I don't remember if the old REDCINE ever got to (B) but the jump in quality from (A) to (B) was substantial. The improvement from (B) to (C) is also important but mostly observed in certain kinds of shots.

Mike N

02-18-2010, 09:26 AM

If you read my post carefully you'll see that's what I was comparing. The same frame rendered with the old Redcine (which DOES NOT know the new colour science) and again the same frame rendered with the new Redcine-X which knows all the new tricks and improvements.
The quality of the 2 frames is exactly the same in terms of noise and as far as my eye can see the color is pretty much the same. As I said I rendered both frames with the same settings (Camera RGB colorspace and REC 709 Gamma space) and in one batch of crops I corrected the white balance by eye in the frame exported with the old Redcine so that It would match with the frame made with the new Redcine-X .
you can download these examples from the link I posted so that you can judge for yourself.
Hope it makes sense now.

Andrew Wilding

02-18-2010, 09:41 AM

To take advantage of the new colour science, use Redcolor and Redgamma. I think you will see a very pleasing difference.

Miltos Pilalitos

02-18-2010, 10:12 AM

you can download these examples from the link I posted so that you can judge for yourself.
Hope it makes sense now.

I tried to download them but the upload bandwidth was so small that i gave up. I am sorry but it just needed more than 25' for 10Mb!

Anyway, now that it's clear what you are comparing, my personal opinion is that there is a huge difference in quality between Colour Science (A) and Colour Science (C).

:thumbsup:

Mike N

02-18-2010, 10:29 AM

I changed the download location. Should be faster from here.

http://drop.io/RedTest#
Password if it asks: redtest

Bruce Allen

02-18-2010, 02:52 PM