potpourri of questions

[Mise-en-Scene]

Hello to everyone.

First, a little bit about who I am….
I am new to your group and I am overwhelmed by the knowledge and expertise of the members. I am a novice (or infant) in comparison. My agenda is to make movies. My experience comes from only making student films (started in 1987) and a few videos while I was a member of a local community public access video station (now known as Access Tucson I believe). I wish I had enrolled in media arts when I first enrolled at the University of Arizona, but instead, got my degree in something that I really don’t like much- electrical engineering (which has helped me grasp things that have to do with technical language, but offers little help when trying to make sense out of camera and editing terminology) Like many others, I have grown tired of my other careers and needed to find something that sets my heart sailing. I found this in moviemaking because I can be creative. I want to go beyond making home movies and student films, but I lack what most of you have—experience in the field and a vast knowledge of the technical aspects of production and post-production. I have read a lot of books, but have not found anything that is practical for post-production work concerning camera operations and editing. I am somewhat familiar with imovie and I am currently learning about FCP.

I have learned a great deal already just reading from the reduser website. I understand some things and I am trying to make sense of other more technical jargon that goes on in the comments and suggestions.

I would appreciate any help (or tutoring) you can give me. I wish there was a book that explains in detail all of the topics discussed from this website because you guys (and gals) are talking about practical matters. If one of you decides to write such a book, I would be the first in line to purchase it. Seriously, if some of you got together to write such a book, it would be a best seller—nothing like it on the market. And if the red camera takes off like a bat out of hell, this book will sell like “hot”cakes. And please, if any of you do decide to write such a book, please, please, please, use layman language. Assume you are talking to a baby (like me).

Here is what I have learned so far from your discussions and what I think I need to do, and please correct me if I am wrong:

First, I need to purchase the Red Camera.
The following is what I would like to purchase or rent to make movies with this camera:
Lenses (any suggestions on what type? Prime lenses? Zoom? I would probably first purchase what is offered by the Red Team)

Portable batteries (does this camera work with a direct electrical cord connection?)

Matte box (for moviemaking—not necessary for EFG ?)

Follow (or pull focus?) focus adaptor

LCD monitor (comes with camera?)

EVF monitor (accessory?)

Microphones (what type of connector would I need? Any suggestions on particular manufacturers or type? Lapel? Boom mikes? DAT or hard-drive? Is a DAT better for field recording because a hard-drive depletes a battery quicker?)

Tripod (any preferences?)

Lighting equipment

Red accessories such as a shoulder mount, camera cage, etc.


AND NOW OTHER RELATED QUESTIONS:

(many thanks to Gibby at www.cut4.tv for his helpful suggestions regarding the many levels of a Red One Kit- if one existed)

I have a Mac Pro with the following features:
Processor: 2 X 3 GHz dual-core Intel Xeon
Memory: 4 GB 667 MHz DDR2 FB-Dimm (no idea what this means except
that the RAM (?) has 4 GB of memory)

My computer uses a firewire. It does not have a fibre channel (what is this used for?)

Anyway, I would like to use FCP HD to do my editing since I already have the software and it is much cheaper than buying a turn-key system.

My understanding is that I would use my Mac (as an EDL-edit decision list only) to do the editing using 480 P or 720P, and then rent an online editor that will conform my EDL to the RED 2K or 4K files for possibly outputting to DVD or 1080P (blu-ray) or film stock. Is this how it is done?

Some members suggested using a quadro GPU (what is a GPU? I know what a CPU is) at 32-bit float (what is this?) Will I need to upgrade my computer before I can do any editing? Or will my computer just run slower using a dual core (vs. a quad?)? Someone even recommended an 8 GPU processor (is this the right term?) that may be available soon.

Are the following examples of graphics cards? And what are the benefits of each?
Kona 3 card
Multibridge extreme (from BMD)
AJA
Blackmagic
Bluefish 444
Assimulate Scratch cards??

Reference was made to 2K output to HD-SDI and HD component analog. What does this mean? Does this mean making copies of a finished edited movie?

What is a PCI-e graphics card (1K to 2K)? What is it used for?

Once primary photography is complete with all of the files recorded onto a hard drive, what is the cheapest method of archiving these files since I would want to reuse the hard drives for the next project? Copy it to DVD disks?

What is the difference between red flash and red drive? Is the flash similar to a still camera flash card and therefore holds less memory than a drive? Is the red drive similar to a computer’s external drives? Is this a direct plug-in device or are these external devices? I suspect the flash is a direct plug-in device. How much memory will each have? Is this a third party purchase or will RED offer it as part of their accessories?

Thank you for listening and I would appreciate any help anyone can give me.

Does anyone from the reduser website live in Tucson, AZ? If so, I would love to get together with you.

Thanks so much,
Ron

[Jason Francois]

Wow, Ron. That's one tall order of questions.

What i suggest is to break each of your questions down and then search for things individually here and on the RED archive section of DVXuser.com

Many things that you're asking aren't exactly 100% defineable at the moment. Most people have very educated guesses, but many things still wont be known until everything is finalized. Hopefully, soon.

As for having to have a RED, I doubt that's the case. Nobody has to have the RED, but most have to have a reason to own one. You've stated you have experience, but are just now getting back into filmmaking. You might do well with other cameras as well, instead of the RED. I still have a feeling that the RED is going to be a different way of doing things than many people aren't used to. It doesn't really seem like it's going to be that similar to the video cameras that many people have grown used to. I personally am excited about that, but you have to determine your end use.

That said I'm getting one and I'm not really a shooter, so if you want one and have the money... have at it. Otherwise you might want to consider and share with us what it is you will ultimately do with the camera.

Looks like you and i will have cameras at a similar time. I'm moving out to Florence, so we'll be pretty close geographically, so maybe we can help each other figure some things out.

Welcome,

Jason

[Jaime Vallés]

First, welcome to RedUser.net! There's plenty to learn from here, so if you want to make digital cinema, I think you're in the right place. :)

Ok, let's tackle some of your questions. And, as insanityfw stated, some of the answers aren't available yet, since the camera isn't released.


First, I need to purchase the Red Camera.
The following is what I would like to purchase or rent to make movies with this camera:
Lenses (any suggestions on what type? Prime lenses? Zoom? I would probably first purchase what is offered by the Red Team)

Lens would depend on your budget. If money is no object, you'll want to use Cooke or Zeiss 35mm PL mount cinema lenses. They're expensive, but are top of the line, and what most of Hollywood uses for big movies.

I don't have that kind of cash, so the inexpensive alternative is 35mm still camera lenses with a Nikon mount. The same lenses used on Nikon SLR photography cameras. The visual quality will be great, but they're harder to focus than expensive cinema lenses, and will exhibit more breathing when changing focus during a shot. However, they're cheap. Very cheap compared to cinema lenses. If ytou can deal with the focusing and breathing issues, save yourself a bundle and go with Nikon lenses.


Portable batteries (does this camera work with a direct electrical cord connection?)

We believe the camera will come with one battery (though nothing is set in stone yet.) Not 100% sure about a power cord, but I'm assuming there woud be a way to plug it in to a wall. Usually it's a good idea to have three batteries; one being used, one being charged, and one on standby ready to be swapped.


Matte box (for moviemaking—not necessary for EFG ?)

Not an absolute necessity, but nice to have, and will allow the use of filters, if you have any. There are varying prices and quality levels, depending on your needs. Again, I'd go with low-end to start with.


Follow (or pull focus?) focus adaptor

If you're making narrative film, a follow-focus unit will help a lot. Again, many different prices depending on quality. One that keeps being mentioned is the Redrock Micro follow-focus. Supposedly they're fixing whatever was wrong with it, and if they did, it seems to be a bargain.


LCD monitor (comes with camera?)

A 720p LCD monitor comes with the camera (at least so far). This will be what I'll be using most of the time.


EVF monitor (accessory?)

An Electronic Viewfinder will be made available as an optional accessory (no word on price yet). It'll probably make shooting easier, especially outdoors on a sunny day, but is not an absolute necessity in order to shoot footage.


Microphones (what type of connector would I need? Any suggestions on particular manufacturers or type? Lapel? Boom mikes? DAT or hard-drive? Is a DAT better for field recording because a hard-drive depletes a battery quicker?)

Depends on what you're shooting. You'll get the best sound from a good shotgun mic on a boom stick, but in tight spaces a lapel mic will do. The simplest way to record the sound would be straight from the mic in to the RED camera using Mini-XLR cables. This way, you won't have to manually sync the audio to every video clip in post, which is tedious and awful.


Tripod (any preferences?)

Definitely get one, but wait until you know the approximate weight of your camera setup before buying one. You want to make sure that whatever model you get will withstand the weight of a fully loaded RED ONE, or it won't pan smoothly. Sachtler is good.


Lighting equipment

Way too many options to name here. Instead of buying a lighting kit, hire a DP with their own lights.


Red accessories such as a shoulder mount, camera cage, etc.

You'll most likely want some sort of shouldder mount. The RED RAILS seems like a good option, but it's not the only one. Many different prices and sizes available. I hear that the DV Rig Pro is really good.


I have a Mac Pro with the following features:
Processor: 2 X 3 GHz dual-core Intel Xeon
Memory: 4 GB 667 MHz DDR2 FB-Dimm (no idea what this means except
that the RAM (?) has 4 GB of memory)

Anyway, I would like to use FCP HD to do my editing since I already have the software and it is much cheaper than buying a turn-key system.

I think this system will be fine if you do an offline cut. There's no need to edit in 4K resolution.


My understanding is that I would use my Mac (as an EDL-edit decision list only) to do the editing using 480 P or 720P, and then rent an online editor that will conform my EDL to the RED 2K or 4K files for possibly outputting to DVD or 1080P (blu-ray) or film stock. Is this how it is done?

This is exactly right. Edit in 480p or 720p until you're happy with it. You can then make great DVDs by yourself. If somebody offers you gobs of money to transfer it to film, then take it to a post house to do an online conform at 2K.


Some members suggested using a quadro GPU (what is a GPU? I know what a CPU is) at 32-bit float (what is this?) Will I need to upgrade my computer before I can do any editing? Or will my computer just run slower using a dual core (vs. a quad?)? Someone even recommended an 8 GPU processor (is this the right term?) that may be available soon.

Not necessary, as long as you're editing in 480p or 720p. Your current Mac Pro will work just fine for an offline edit to DVD.


Are the following examples of graphics cards? And what are the benefits of each?
Kona 3 card
Multibridge extreme (from BMD)
AJA
Blackmagic
Bluefish 444
Assimulate Scratch cards??

Again, not necessary for the offline edit. Spend your money on feeding the cast and crew, and on hiring a good sound team and a good DP with lights.


Reference was made to 2K output to HD-SDI and HD component analog. What does this mean? Does this mean making copies of a finished edited movie?

This is if you want to record to a tape deck, like an HDCAM SR deck, or to a computer via HD-SDI. You're better off recording in 4K Redcode RAW to the onboard RED-FLASH or RED-DRIVE (both optional accessories).


What is a PCI-e graphics card (1K to 2K)? What is it used for?

Somebody else needs to answer this one. I have little knowledge of graphics cards.


Once primary photography is complete with all of the files recorded onto a hard drive, what is the cheapest method of archiving these files since I would want to reuse the hard drives for the next project? Copy it to DVD disks?

Don't reuse the disks. Keep them on a shelf for archive. Regular DVDs will not hold enough footage to be a viable backup for 4K footage. Hard drives are getting so cheap nowadays, that you can buy a 1TB (TERABYTE!!!) drive for less than $500. That should hold about 10 hours of 4K footage. By the time the RED camera is shipped, drives will be even cheaper. Don't bother archiving to a different medium. Just unplug the drive with the raw footage and put it on a shelf, until Blu-Ray or HD-DVD or Holographic Disks are readily available and cheap.


1) What is the difference between red flash and red drive? Is the flash similar to a still camera flash card and therefore holds less memory than a drive?

2) Is the red drive similar to a computer’s external drives?

3) Is this a direct plug-in device or are these external devices? I suspect the flash is a direct plug-in device.

4) How much memory will each have?

5) Is this a third party purchase or will RED offer it as part of their accessories?

1) Yes, the RED-FLASH is a solid state memory card that is lower in capacity but more reliable than the RED-DRIVE (because of no moving parts, like a still camera flash card).

2) Yes, but supposedly it's going to be 2 hard drives in a RAID configuration to support 4K recording.

3) The RED-DRIVE will plug in to the RED camera body via a short cable (we believe), and is portable enough to be attached on to whatever shoulder mount you have. Check out the pics at red.com and you'll see it hanging out on the back of the camera, along with the battery. The RED-FLASH will go into the camera itself (no cable required).

4) The RED-DRIVE will have 320GB of space, I think. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. No word yet on the size of the RED-FLASH.

5) Both are said to cost less than $1000. Both are optional purchases.

Hope this helps some. :)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Don't reuse the disks. Keep them on a shelf for archive. Regular DVDs will not hold enough footage to be a viable backup for 4K footage. Hard drives are getting so cheap nowadays, that you can buy a 1TB (TERABYTE!!!) drive for less than $500. That should hold about 10 hours of 4K footage. By the time the RED camera is shipped, drives will be even cheaper. Don't bother archiving to a different medium. Just unplug the drive with the raw footage and put it on a shelf, until Blu-Ray or HD-DVD or Holographic Disks are readily available and cheap.

I'm not sure I'm in agreement here... But I also don't have anything to suggest as an alternative that is as cost-effective. Hard drives are not designed to sit on a shelf, storing data for a lengthy period of time. I wouldn't trust my backups to that sort of media. Unfortunately, even HD-DVD and BluRay will take several discs to back up a single RED DRIVE and we don't know how robust or long-lasting they are as an archival format either. For long-term archival, take a look at some of the digital tape options. VXA2 is a good choice -- 160GB per tape. Tapes can be bought in bulk and the last time I priced it out after buying the external drive unit and a bulk box of tapes, it evened out with hard drive storage in terms of cost right around the 8TB mark. Not bad... More stuff to manage than if you were buying 1TB hard drives, but this is media that is designed to sit on a shelf for years and years. Something to think about....

I won't trust my backups to hard drives unless there is some redundancy and error control (RAID 5 or 7 config or better). And I also won't just let them sit on a shelf on a hard drive... People are asking for trouble by doing that...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Are the following examples of graphics cards? And what are the benefits of each?
Kona 3 card
Multibridge extreme (from BMD)
AJA
Blackmagic
Bluefish 444
Assimulate Scratch cards??

These are add-on cards or other solutions used in video processing and editing. Some work with both Mac or PC some work with just one or the other. AJA is the company that makes the Kona series of cards (Kona 3). Black Magic Design (BMD) makes various offerings like the mulitibridge or decklink cards. ...I prefer AJA and I see that others here on the boards do to for the same reason (opinion?). AJA cards seem to output better looking video... Bluefish 444, is just another company making video editing cards/solutions.. Most of the above mentioned solutions will be primarily used in conjuction with RED if you want to send video from your NLE out to a monitor or deck via SDI interface. Assimilate makes some very high-end stuff... If you don't know what it is, you probably don't need it. ;) SCRATCH is one of their products for color grading or other processing tasks. You can also use it for creating dailies or conforming full resolution 2K or 4K to lower-res proxies that have been edited (off-line editing). Check out their web site for more info --> www.assimilate.com



What is a PCI-e graphics card (1K to 2K)? What is it used for?

PCI-e (PCI Express) is the interface inside your computer into which expansion cards are inserted. For a more thorough explaination of PCIe, head on over to wikipedia.org and look it up. But a PCIe video card is the main video card that drives your monitors. Well in most situations, but those above mentioned expansion cards will also connect via PCIe -- as will other devices you may install into your system like fiber channel cards (for connecting to fiber networks and storage systems).

[GlennChan]

In my opinion...

If you want to learn about the industry, start working in it! Find some PA work (probably unpaid until you prove yourself) on some professional sets. Track down the production managers or producers on some of these shoots and volunteer or whatever to see what's out there. You won't learn about this in a book or in a classroom. Show up with a good attitude, be prepared for lots of waiting around, (if you're PAing, be prepared to do stuff other people would rather not do), and be prepared for really long hours (a 14 hour day is possible on some shoots). It's good to do to see what's out there, and it's a good learning experience.

Also read some books and play around with some gear you own. You don't necessarily need to spend too much nowadays for decent quality gear (i.e. a desktop computer is good enough for post production work; you don't need six/seven-figure systems anymore).

2- Lighting:
If you want to learn about lighting, buy a fresnel light. With a fresnel light, you can get most other types of light. Bounce it or shoot it through diffusion to soften the light.

Make some reflectors. One way is to take some cardboard and tape crinkled tinfoil to it. Very easy to do, and this kind of reflector is more directional + 'powerful' than the plain white foamcore some people recommend. Considering how cheap + easy this is, it should be one of the first things you try. Also try not crinkling the tinfoil, so it's more like a mirror.

From there you can experiment with other sorts of lights, i.e. softboxes with grids on them to control the spill (which you can do with a fresnel + chimera, or a Lowel Rifa).

[Zach Hilton]

I agree with GlennChan. I've been through film school and am just a beginner in the field, but the best experience and knowledge I have gained is from actually getting my hands dirty and doing stuff. Even if it's just for kicks! Not to downlplay knowledge one can gain from a book (there are a ton out there...if you are really interested you can email me and I could give you a list) but the real stuff in this field, you learn from actually doing. Good luck!

[Júlio Taubkin]

Every film has different equipment needs. You only buy stuff when you do a lot of the same (industrial/wedding videos for instance), or when they are of general importance (like a camera). I cannot say you WON'T be able to do a film with nothing more than a red camera, but you will certainly not be able to shoot the next lord of the rings. First you find the work, then you get the equipment.

That's my .02

Good Luck!

[Mise-en-Scene]

I would like to thank all of you for your informative replies. I have been busy and was unable to reply sooner.

I am still learning how to work the reply threads. I wanted to reply to each person individually, but I am not quite sure how to do it yet. This reply may end up on the bottom of the last thread.

Thanks again,
Ron:)

[kraemer]

I think the best way to store Red footage is going to be on a SAN. Yours or somebody else's.

[Rob Lohman]

Ron: just hit the quote button besides each post to respond to that post. Or just start a post and add the name to whom you're replying, just like I did with this post.

New posts always appear at the current end of the thread you're replying to.