Curious about adding a new feature to CF Module...

[planet e]

I was just reading some specs on Sony's XDCAM EX, and their Express cards have a feature called "delete last shot" which helps to maximize the available space on the cards by allowing the operator to erase bad takes.

I have no idea what is required to implement this feature or if it is just possible on their proprietary Express cards, but would RED be able to develop a similar offering on their CF Module?

It's not that unusual to have several bad takes and one or two "money shots" when you're shooting wildlife or tracking birds or shooting any other fast EFP environment for that matter. Freeing up space on the cards would be a huge benefit. Better shot selection is always the best option, but if the CF card module could support this feature, that would be great.

I imagine that I'll be shooting to the hard drive primarily, due to the need for more memory in most situations, but I like the idea of having lightweight memory in certain situations (like schlepping RED up a 13- or 14,000 foot peak) where any added weight becomes meaningful fast....

I'm working out a deal on shooting some of Colorado's big peaks with a RED, and, if this feature is a possibility, it would help a lot....

[ericyoung]

Actually that would be a great feature to have even when shooting to hard drive. If it could be easily accessible via the top level media menu (with a safety dialogue box of course), or even assignable to maybe a double button push, it would be even better. Sometimes you KNOW it was a bad take right away, it'd be good not to have to navigate all the way to the last clip in a whole folder full of clips via directories just to delete the last clip.

[donatello b]

this subject came up in the past - long discussions ..
i think it was a decided -NOT going to be able to delete ...
perhaps in future ??

[Shawn Nelson]

I would love this feature, especially useful for bogus takes. '"And...Action! Oh wait, the actor was texting on his cell phone. CUT!!"

[jbeale]

as I recall the majority position last time this discussion happened, was that deleting anything in-camera on set was just too dangerous to outweigh some convenience. Having a nondestructive "flag bad take" option met with general approval, though. However at this time we were all assuming a 300G Red-drive, not a more limited memory size.

[Shawn Nelson]

That is true, I'd hate to lose the good take because of a camera op with butterfingers.

[ericyoung]

Well OK, why not an option to turn this feature ON, DEEP in the menus or in an engineering only menu. Factory default is OFF, so it's failsafe.

That way, if you really want it, it's possible to enable it, but if you think it's too dangerous on a shoot then you can lock it out, and only somebody deliberately looking for it can change it?

[Hrvoje Simic]

Now this topic seems rather familiar...


I don't think potentiall human error is an excuse for a lack of options on the camera.

It can all be solved with a smart approach to the logic of camera controls. I agree with Eric about the solution.

[Jeremy Teman]

Make the button so you have to hold it down for a few seconds or you must confirm it somehow. I would find this extremely useful, especially when shooting events. A lot of times with sports you're waiting for something to happen and you hit the record button only to find out it was nothing.

[planet e]

hey y'all, sorry for bringing this up if it was previously discussed. i don't think i had much initial interest in the CF module at all, due to the need, in my business, for longer recording times. so i probably missed school that day. but now i have a line on several jobs where weight issues might trump longer recording times. but knowing that i can be carrying only useable takes would make this even more appealing....

[ericyoung]

Make the button so you have to hold it down for a few seconds or you must confirm it somehow. I would find this extremely useful, especially when shooting events. A lot of times with sports you're waiting for something to happen and you hit the record button only to find out it was nothing.

Holding down a single button isn't safe enough. All it takes is resting it in the wrong place or having it in a overstuffed bag and a button could be held down too long.

[ericyoung]

Another suggestion - if the "delete last clip" option is enabled and you go to delete that clip, it automatically starts playing that clip behind the confirmation dialogue box so you can be sure it's the correct clip before confirming, or you can watch it through to the end before deciding to keep it after all - for a useful cutaway you've seen!

[tj williams]

If the operator of prosumer cameras can do this why not us?
Nice to see posts that are more down with this now. I remember the prevous thread, was it called "just say no" or "just say erase?" cause I started it before. Folks were much more neg. about it, Youda thought I suggested a self destruct button!!! Hey I can erase any of these files on my computer..... ooooooops!!!

[Dominic Jones]

Personally I think it's a mistake to delete any takes before you get to an edit - sometimes you'll even use little looks before or after the action/cut calls as a reaction shot, for instance - stock cost per minute is so low now I just don't think it makes sense.

That said, I don't see any reason not to have the feature available (I'd definitely want to have it default to off and "hidden" in an engineering menu as suggested, however) for those who don't think the same as me...

And I'm in total agreement with the poster above - single long press or double same button press is just not safe enough. How many times have you fumbled around for the run/stop button an a camera you've not used before/for a while? FAR too dangerous!!

Also, I think if you are going to have it, the non-destructive method is a nice idea - although of course this removes the advantage of longer run-time of the CF card, in which case you might as well keep the clips until editorial (or forever, for that matter!).

[Moir]

Personally I think it's a mistake to delete any takes before you get to an edit - sometimes you'll even use little looks before or after the action/cut calls as a reaction shot, for instance - stock cost per minute is so low now I just don't think it makes sense.


There are bad takes, and there are bad takes. It's one thing to keep a take that is borderline usable for the above reason, but for example if you work mostly with wildlife as I do, you get a lot of bad takes that are simply rubbish and will never see the light of day. Deleting these immediately in-camera would be very much a benefit.

Not aimed at you Dominic, but I don't understand resistance to having more options. My current cameras do lots of things I don't need and never will, but I don't complain about them being there!

[planet e]

yes, this is really a good option for wildlife shooting, where it's not unusual to have a lot of bad takes before you capture the money shot. also, for many nature and outdoors applications where weight is an issue in getting the camera into remote locations and maximizing available memory space while minimizing weight....

it would be nice to have the deletion option able to be enabled/disabled via menu, to avoid mistakes. good idea...

[ericyoung]

It's not just about saving space - in non drama shoots, it about having to wade through hours of rushes. Yes, there are little cutaways and looks useful in drama, but in other fields, you shoot so much stuff anyway, you're not short of cutaways, you're more short of time. Sometimes, too much footage just holds you up, especially if you're a hoarder like me! It just needs some discipline and making a decision at the time rather than always deferring it. Nothing wrong with deferring, but not everyone needs or wants to.

Having an option you can disable is better than leaving it out because some of your users don't want it.

[Mark Crabtree]

This may have been suggested already, it would be great to have the option of recording uncompressed stills onto the compact flash card just like a DSLR can.

[Michael Schrengohst]

This may have been suggested already, it would be great to have the option of recording uncompressed stills onto the compact flash card just like a DSLR can.

And how about a DSLR mode? Shoot 1-8 fps. Have
an ability to sync flash units up?
:construction:

[Dominic Jones]

It's one thing to keep a take that is borderline usable for the above reason, but for example if you work mostly with wildlife as I do, you get a lot of bad takes that are simply rubbish and will never see the light of day. Deleting these immediately in-camera would be very much a benefit.

Not aimed at you Dominic, but I don't understand resistance to having more options. My current cameras do lots of things I don't need and never will, but I don't complain about them being there!
Agreed - I think once you've got to the point of specifying a disable-able function (preferably defaulting to disabled as a factory preset, as that's fail-safe) there's really not much to discuss.

I fully appreciate that people have very different requirements - my main staples are music promos (where the editors usually use *all* of the mistakes, much to our chagrin!) and drama, which I think has been adequately covered, so my needs obviously vary drastically from the wildlife/doco crowd, and particularly in the case of wildlife I wouldn't feel even slightly qualified enough to comment.

However, I can never see the point in restricting options, unless they seriously raise the hire or purchase price of a piece of kit, which I very much doubt in this case. It's similar to the 2:1 vs 16:9 discussion happening elsewhere - if you're designing a sensor from the ground up then maybe it's an issue, but if you've already got a 16:9 sensor (as in this case) I just can't see any point in artificially closing doors on options...

[Greg Voevodsky]

Add the feature as an option - default off - in RED menus. For those of us who can take responsibility for what we shoot and DON'T want to keep in order to save space and time - please add the feature - DELETE LAST TAKE? ARE YOU SURE (Y/N) - THANKS.