Avid Adrenaline HD [Archive]

raymond56

09-11-2007, 03:22 AM

Sean

09-11-2007, 06:55 AM

MichaelP

09-11-2007, 12:19 PM

The workflow is still being defined with REDCINE application, and RED - obviously the QT codec for DNxHD is a wat to work, but there is also a need to reatain metadata which is still being defined.

Michael

Sean

09-12-2007, 02:08 PM

MichaelP! You've saved my behind on dvxuser.com too many times. Can't tell you how welcome you are here!!! (The dude is an Avid savante.)

Jeremy Torrie

09-12-2007, 02:37 PM

Until Avid gets its act together with respect to handling high resolution content via cheaper yet capable hardware, FCP is likely going to be king in this regard. I certainly prefer working in Avid but for me to deliver a film affordably in 10 bit HD uncompressed, I needed to work in FCP and use Aja to do so.

Adrenaline is compressed and you're looking at ~20K US for the privilege of editing with their hardware.

Sean

09-12-2007, 02:51 PM

Yes, yes. I know. But I'm sticking with Avid and will deal with the workarounds as necessary. Everything I finish will be compressed to some degree. I'm not doing any film-outs myself. When it's a more highly financed project, I won't be turning many knobs in the edit suite and as long as I like the look, I don't care what the movie is edited on. But I will be finishing most projects myself in 1080p DNxHD on Media Composer. Likely exhibited on HDCAM and/or Blu-Ray or (gasp) regular SD. I know you have some pretty high-end suites and commercial demands within your company, Torrie. I wanna come out and see what you guys are doing, in fact.

Anyhow, I for one would also love it if the FCP vs. Avid conversations, while necessary, were left out of the Avid workflow thread. I know there will be fewer of us here. But I expect Avid to catch up...eventually.

Jeremy Torrie

09-12-2007, 03:19 PM

For sure the versus stuff can and should be avoided. After all, when we're working we want to get useful info fast, rather than read about gripes.

We spend far too much time in the confines of an edit suite as it is, so getting the hell out allows me to have some kind of life and not become a potato (Reduser is useful while rendering uncompressed, color-corrected HD files).

I know Avid is listening via their beta folks -there are smart and committed people within the organization. It's up to new mgmt to listen to them. If they do, then it allows me to afford a new Sony Trimaster LCD.

10-bit 220 is reasonable for most. As much as I'm a creative guy, I am also a bit obsessed about picture quality (side note: there's a festival that wants to show our film on Digi Beta and they had no idea what SDI was. I'm hoping they can project in HD-SDI via HDCam, not SR, but it'll do). Ironically this was meant to be a feature, but it did have a good presale so it will be seen nationally in Canada at least, and yes in HD too.

MichaelP

09-15-2007, 08:01 PM

I will keep the forum updated as to Avid workflows when tested and available - keep in mind that the native RED format is currently only available to Apple and Assimilate so the transcode to a DNxHD proxy via the Avid QuickTime codecs will be the first one available to users. But as mentioned, getting the metadata will be important for those needing to go back to the native 4K files in addition to those satisfied with HD and SD deliveries.

Just like with film, you never know when you might need to go back to the original files, so having the metadata to do so is much more reassuring.

Michael

Jörgen Persson

09-17-2007, 01:14 AM

Thanks Michael for posting on the forum. Hopefully Redcine will export DNxHD mxf with clip metadata in a not too distant future.

NZ1

09-24-2007, 06:45 PM

I think a good number of folks will be working with Avid. I'll be using DNxHD with Red footage a lot, I expect. My workflow would be: (1) shoot 4K Red RAW; (2) import into RedCine software; (3) export DNxHD files (a QuickTime codec) from RedCine; (4) import into Avid. But I have obviously not tried it yet, and haven't heard of anyone else doing it yet either.

Can anyone confirm the above is correct ie "(3) export DNxHD files (a QuickTime codec) from RedCine"

Does RedCine export to DNxHD ?

Can anyone confirm this for me.

Thanks

Rune Hansen

09-24-2007, 07:20 PM

Can anyone confirm the above is correct ie "(3) export DNxHD files (a QuickTime codec) from RedCine"
Does RedCine export to DNxHD ?
Can anyone confirm this for me.
Thanks

If you have the DNxHD Codecs (which can be freely downloaded from the AVID website (http://www.avid.com/onlineSupport/supportcontent.asp?browse=&productID=0&contentID=7952)) then any QuickTime compatible application can read/write files with this codec, so yes I don't see why this shouldn't work.

-Rune

Cail Young

09-24-2007, 11:29 PM

If you have the DNxHD Codecs (which can be freely downloaded from the AVID website (http://www.avid.com/onlineSupport/supportcontent.asp?browse=&productID=0&contentID=7952)) then any QuickTime compatible application can read/write files with this codec, so yes I don't see why this shouldn't work.

-Rune

As we've found out, you can't encode to DNxHD from a reference movie of any kind - at least in our experience.

Lucas Wilson

09-25-2007, 03:00 AM

Can anyone confirm the above is correct ie "(3) export DNxHD files (a QuickTime codec) from RedCine"

Does RedCine export to DNxHD ?

Can anyone confirm this for me.

Thanks

REDCINE will export to Quicktime with the DNxHD codec.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

MichaelP

09-25-2007, 12:15 PM

Sean

09-25-2007, 01:59 PM

REDCINE can export to QUickTime. If the Avid QT codecs are installed on that system, then it can see the codec just like any QT aware application. Metadata is another issue which is being worked on.

Michael

And I'm curious what is involved in solving this issue re: Avid. Do they need to add new software code in RedCine? Or does Avid have to release a new, free DNxHD codec that accommodates this? Or would it be new code in Avid Xpress/Media Composer (i.e., a new version of the NLE)? I'm no software engineer, so I have no idea. But I'm curious.

Nick Shaw

09-25-2007, 02:59 PM

This is a serious limitation that Avid has. The Quicktime import in Avid appears to have been designed to import things like graphics rendered in After Effects to be added to an online, where timecode and matching back to source are not important. You can assign timecode to clips in Avid once they are imported, but it is a time consuming manual process that has to be done one clip at a time.

Since timecode tracks are a standard part of the Quicktime spec, it would be a simple matter for Avid to implement reading them on import. I do wonder why they did not do it a long time ago, and maybe demands for Red compatibility will force them to do so. I can only think that they have their own reasons for keeping Avid a 'closed system'.

MichaelP

09-26-2007, 09:24 AM

I agree that timecode decode from Quicktime is a much needed feature. But there are workflows to enable metadata merge to the QT that will be part of the RED workflow and already has been in use for a while in NZ for Peter Jackson productions for all their VFX work. There is a need for more metadata than just a single timecode in order for any downstream process to be done.

As far as the ability to manage and track lots of different metadata, AVID tracks more than any other system.

Michael

MichaelP

09-26-2007, 09:28 AM

And I'm curious what is involved in solving this issue re: Avid. Do they need to add new software code in RedCine? Or does Avid have to release a new, free DNxHD codec that accommodates this? Or would it be new code in Avid Xpress/Media Composer (i.e., a new version of the NLE)? I'm no software engineer, so I have no idea. But I'm curious.

Having a QuickTime codec allows any QuickTime aware application to see it - you can download the Avid QT codecs from here:
http://www.avid.com/onlineSupport/supportcontent.asp?browse=go&productID=0&contentID=7952

There is no need to update host applications for the QuickTime version of codecs - there is an update needed if an application wants to work natively with MXF wrapped DNxHD rather than through QuickTime. In doing that, MXF allows for a far deeper metadata description than a single timecode and other misc items.

Michael

Sean

09-28-2007, 10:26 AM

Having a QuickTime codec allows any QuickTime aware application to see it - you can download the Avid QT codecs from here:
http://www.avid.com/onlineSupport/supportcontent.asp?browse=go&productID=0&contentID=7952

There is no need to update host applications for the QuickTime version of codecs - there is an update needed if an application wants to work natively with MXF wrapped DNxHD rather than through QuickTime. In doing that, MXF allows for a far deeper metadata description than a single timecode and other misc items.

Michael

Oh dang. Now you confused me. Yes, I know I can use QT based DNxHD files in Avid. And I fully intend to use RedCine to export in that format for editing with Avid Media Composer. I'm a die-hard Avid user, and don't plan on switching.

But I was asking about the apparently all-important meta-data, in case we ever want to match-back to original Red 4K files. And the issue being Avid can't see that Red meta-data yet. And I'm wondering wherein lies the next step in Avid development to allow for this meta-data: (1) a new DNxHD codec? (probably free for download); (2) new code in RedCine that allows for this? (sounds like this isn't the issue, but heck if I know); or (3) a new revision of the Avid NLE to allow for the meta-data to be read? Which needs to be revised to allow Red to integrate the meta-data with my Avid?

I'm one of the guys who will quite happily be posting in Avid with RedCine's exported DNxHD files (I already have all the Avid QT DNxHD codecs installed). If I have to match-back these shorter projects, well I'll just do it "by eye" and good hand-written notes. In the future, however, with much longer projects and more footage, the meta-data becomes way more important, obviously.

Chris Swartz

10-08-2007, 05:44 PM

There may be a way to do this using an ALE file and QT, but I'll post more on that when I know more. I think we'll have to wait a while for metadata support, but if you want to cut an HD film and don't need to go 2k or 4k then DNxHD without metadata could be fine.

Chris

Wim Verbeek

10-11-2007, 04:38 PM

Hi, Is there anyone planning to use the Red with adrenaline HD (DNxHD)?
For final delivery on SD that is.
We are very impressed with what we've seen on IBC'07 and thinking about buying. But FCP is not an option. What could an alternative workflow be?
hi Raymond,
i'm planning to use Avid Composer Adrenaline HD for editing 2K projects.
Trying to figure out how much time is involved to transcode from Redcode to DNxHD.
Other question: Is there a difference to run Adrenaline on a Mac or PC based system? Does apple handle the transcoding faster, while it's the native quicktime platform??