Wider Red Part II - Voigtlander 12mm f/5.6?

[Akcelik]

aperture control nikon mount Voigtlander Super Wide 12mm f/5.6 SL.. whats the word on this lens. there seems to be a protruding element on the lens, is that for better precision focus control? ok match for Red?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=8433&A=details&Q=&sku=365741&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

[Evin Grant]

I think the rear element may be too close to the sensor to get good telecentricity to the light rays. That means they will hit the sensor at progressively oblique angles as they move to the corners and cause severe vingetting. But you would really need to test it to know for sure.

[Akcelik]

thanks Evin! your recommendation's are paramount!
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=66640&page=2&highlight=sigma

btw did you find/invent a way to control aperture on auto lens? :)

i am also considering the sigma 10-20 and set aperture from dslr, since it will be used at one hyperfocal setting, do you foresee any trouble to this workabout?

thanks again.

Akcelik

[Evin Grant]

I would avoid Sigma for Red, it's just too damn resolved and the Sigmas have real QC issues. I did give Red a prototype of my iris control workaround, we'll just have to see if they think it's worth thier time to engineer into their Nikon mount. My gut feeling is they will not, just because they have so many other issues to deal with and so many Nikkors do have aperture control.
If there seems to be a demand I may create a third party option.

My current recomendation is the 15mm 3.5 AIS Nikkor. This will give you the 35mm Still equiv. of 24mm. The 12mm is 20mm Equiv. and that is not that much wider.

[Akcelik]

thanks again Evin! i was thinking sigma might be fine for b&w, but will steer safe anyway and go for the constant aperture 17-35mm F2.8 Nikkor and wait for what Red may deliver.

[Evin Grant]

I just bought one of those. I'm having it cleaned and re-collimated as we speak. Awsome piece of glass and it barely breathes, rare for a still lens.

[Akcelik]

rarely breaths? assuming you tested the AI vintage on a 35mm DOF adapter? lets hope the AFS has the same characteristics.

[Martin Drew]

Evin. Why the 15mm rather than the 14mm? I discounted the 15mm because of the propensity to flare, but my knowledge of these lenses is entirely from reports, I haven't tried either, so I am interested in why you prefer the 15mm.

Martin

[Mark Thorpe]

Guys,
So where or how do get really wide with RED? Working underwater I need something thats gonna give me 35mm equivalent of around 14 to 15mm !! Any pointers for lenses to achieve that?

Cheers,
Mark.

[Anders Holck]

Arri Ultra Prime 8R or 10mm will get you close:
http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/ultra_prime_r8/details.htm

[Martin Drew]

CamDiver. If you don't want to spend too much and a fisheye is okay you could try the Peleng 8mm http://rafcamera.com/mcl/wide/peleng_pl.htm Arri PL mount so it will go straight on the camera and it is a real bargain. There is a quote from Matt Uhry on that page

"I projected the lens at Clairmont and it came up incredibly sharp. 200 lp/mm in the center, better than the Nikon 8mm's they rent there for like $150/day. You can see the results at: TV Spots and Music Videos. Click on the Honda ad, it was shot only with the Peleng 8mm."

The Honda Ad doesn't seem to be up up at his site anymore but I see that Matt is posting in this forum so you could ask him if it is any good. Seems to get pretty good reviews.

Martin

[Mark Thorpe]

Hi Martin and Anders,
Thanks for that. I do actually own an external 120 degree wide angle adapter lens which I use in conjuction with a Sony HVR-Z1U in a Gates underwater housing. The Z1 lens basically translates to a 67degree FOV and there are a few people looking into whether or not this could also work with RED. It would be a shame if it couldn't as its also a $4500 piece of glass!!

Cheers for the info and link, appreciated.
Mark.

[Evin Grant]

Evin. Why the 15mm rather than the 14mm? I discounted the 15mm because of the propensity to flare, but my knowledge of these lenses is entirely from reports, I haven't tried either, so I am interested in why you prefer the 15mm.
Martin

The 14 has a very wavy distortion/focus charachteristic that I was never really fond of. I think the 15 is just a better optic all around. It is definately sharper.
http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/14mm/14mm_test_3.html

[Martin Drew]

The 14 has a very wavy distortion/focus charachteristic that I was never really fond of. I think the 15 is just a better optic all around. It is definately sharper.
http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/14mm/14mm_test_3.html

Yes. I had seen that test, the Nikons performance is not bad it is awful, it just made me wonder if he got a duff one. Looking at other reports no one seems to comment on the weird "ring of sharp focus" effect he got. The wavy distortion issue is widely reported but seems to only takes effect in the extreme corners. In this review http://www.naturfotograf.com/14nikkor_review.html the guy had the lens on a D1 and commented that the wavy distortion was cropped on that sensor. More reviews:
http://www.imagepower.de/IMAGES/imgEQUIPMENT/AF14.htm
http://www.popphoto.com/cameralenses/650/nikon-14mm-f28d-af.html

I just noticed that the guy 1t 16-9 also reviewed the 15mm Nikon and he commented on the same toroidal focus distortion effect on that lens. Weird:
http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/15mm_2/sigma1224vnikon15b.html Why can't I find this picked up anywhere else???

Anyway. Not trying to knock your choice of the 15, just trying to further my own knowledge.

Cheers

Martin

[Martin Drew]

Hang on. read the small print down the bottom of the page http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/14mm/14mm_test.html. All lenses were tested on a CANON 5D, i.e. using a lens mount adapter. In fact he re-tested the 15mm using a different adapter and then got totally different results. That makes me very suspicious, the fact that no one else picked up on his toroidal focus effect makes me think it was probably down to the adapter.

Ken Rockwell has commented on both lenses too.

Martin

[Jim Arthurs]

CamDiver. If you don't want to spend too much and a fisheye is okay you could try the Peleng 8mm http://rafcamera.com/mcl/wide/peleng_pl.htm Arri PL mount so it will go straight on the camera and it is a real bargain. There is a quote from Matt Uhry on that page

Thanks for this link... I have the Peleng 8mm for about six years... used to use it on my 35mm still camera for creating panoramas from 3 or 4 circular fisheye images, also on my 35mm Wall movie camera with Nikon mount for interesting cropped fisheye time-lapse... I wonder if they would handle just the conversion to PL for my existing lens without selling me an already converted unit...

While on the subject of fish-eyes... anyone know of a full 180 fisheye that would fit the complete image circle within the RED's sensor size? That would be nice to locate for future reference...

[Akcelik]

do you guys intend on making post rectlinear conversion from fisheye?

[Jim Arthurs]

My interest in fisheye comes from being curious about using RED for full dome shows. Most of the larger domes can handle an effective 180 degree fisheye image (called a dome master) at 4k by 4k. Selecting the largest possible square section of the RED sensor and filling it with a circular 180 degree fisheye image would be the best you could do outside of shooting the same setup on 65mm...

[Akcelik]

i see!!! :)

no need for 3 projectors manually syncronized then..

[Jim Arthurs]

i see!!! :)
no need for 3 projectors manually syncronized then..

A 180 degree fisheye angle lens is just for the photography side of things, projecting that image is more complicated.

Most of the dome venues rely on quite a number of high resolution video projectors, each overlapping and blended to create the full image. You can use a single projector in the right place with a fisheye lens, but you can't get a goodly amount of light out of it to make the image bright enough for proper viewing on a larger dome. With multiple projectors, you can significantly increase the illumination. Multiple projectors have their own set of issues, as it's nearly impossible to perfectly blend them at the seams.

[Martin Drew]

I wonder if they would handle just the conversion to PL for my existing lens without selling me an already converted unit...

Jim. From what I have read the Peleng has a universal mount and then an adapter fixed with 3 screws which matches it to any particular mount. So maybe it is possible to just purchase the PL adapter which you could mount yourself. here is another link to another company which sells a PL adapted Peleng:

http://www.longvalleyequip.com/lens.php

they have a useful format chart down the page which shows how the image crops for s35; standard 35; s16 etc.

Martin

[Jim Arthurs]

Thanks Martin... it does indeed have a universal mount, but I've not been very impressed with the flange depth precision (at least with the provided Nikon mount adaptor). Bluntly put, they missed by a mile. :)

Anyway, it's a good chunk of glass and I sure appreciate the links... I'm sure I'll work something out with it.

Regards,

[David Nardini]

Arri Ultra Prime 8R or 10mm will get you close:
http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/ultra_prime_r8/details.htm

Ouch ... this looks expensive (but nice). Anybody know what these things cost ??? Can they be hired somewhere in the UK ???

I'm sticking to the Nikkor 17-35/2.8 until I find something at a sensible price point to get me nearer the 90 degree FOV (underwater requirement like CamDiver).

David Nardini

[Emanuel A.]

David, I believe a lot of us we'll be with the same option than you. And thanks Evin for your info on breathing about the Nikkor 17-35mm f2.8 -- quite hopeful!

[Brook Willard]

Ouch ... this looks expensive (but nice). Anybody know what these things cost ??? Can they be hired somewhere in the UK ???


They cost more than the RED ONE. They generally rent between $300-500/day here, depending on the nature of the project. I'm very excited to see the results when somebody mates one of these with a RED ONE.

[Emanuel A.]

Please, move it for the right sub-forum (lenses tests). Thanks.

E.

[Brook Willard]

Done.

On the subject, though, I called Clairmont today to see what renting an 8R costs... $350/day with $26,000 insurance. They wouldn't let me talk them below $280/day as a student - unfortunate considering I can usually get rental houses to start at ~50% and work down from there with a smile on their faces. The guy on the phone wasn't making any friends...

But there's the answer. $26,000 for the lens or $350/day in L.A.

[Emanuel A.]

I think the rear element may be too close to the sensor to get good telecentricity to the light rays. That means they will hit the sensor at progressively oblique angles as they move to the corners and cause severe vingetting. But you would really need to test it to know for sure.May some of this info put any light on this?

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=88919

Any update?

[Michael Hastings]

Prices in Euros 1 Euro = 1.33 Dollars
Zeiss Ultra Primes T2.8 8mm 19,500 Euros $25.900 US
Zeiss Ultra Primes T2.1 10mm 15,020 Euros
Zeiss Ultra Primes T2.0 12mm 14,400 Euros $19,120 US
Zeiss Ultra Primes T1.9 14mm 11,220 Euros
Zeiss Ultra Primes T1.9 16mm 9,300 Euros

Zeiss Ultra Primes T1.9 40mm 7,810 Euros
Zeiss Ultra Primes T1.9 85mm 8,000 Euros
Zeiss Ultra Primes T1.9 180mm 11,770 Euros



Ouch ... this looks expensive (but nice). Anybody know what these things cost ??? Can they be hired somewhere in the UK ???

I'm sticking to the Nikkor 17-35/2.8 until I find something at a sensible price point to get me nearer the 90 degree FOV (underwater requirement like CamDiver).

David Nardini

[chuck colburn]

If your thinking about a 15mm prime in a different mount, this would be nice. Plus it turns in the right direction for the follow focus.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/zeiss-m-mount.shtml

[Mike the beginner]

Would any of you not consider the red zoom, at 15mm it is probably the widest angle that still manages to provide a realistic wide angle without the price shooting up massively.

Does the weight of any cine prime below 15mm not also start to get heavier as you say go from 15mm to say 13mm, as well as technically challanging!

I know the red zoom will not be ready until later in the year but surely underwater housings require the right long term solutions rather than say a cheap temporary alternative such as an SLR lens? Just asking really:innocent:


Mike the beginner

[Sanjin Jukic]

Now this could be the best wide option lens for the RED ONE. With 2K RAW shooting to max 120 fps. Do it with a popular and cheap pro super 16mm lens: Carl Zeiss 10-100 f/2.8 T*2 with CARL ZEISS "Wide Angle Front Lens Mutar T*" 0.6x "Aspheron" for Vario-Sonnar zoom 10-100 T2. It converts your zoom to a 6.0mm prime. Have a look and read at the link below the picture:

http://cinematechnic.com/images/zeiss/Mutar_side_w-logos.jpg

Link

http://www.cinematechnic.com/products/zeiss/Mutar_f=6mm_Zeiss.html