How Would You Spend $40,000?

[Charles Adams]

Just for fun, let's say you have no film or video equipment whatsoever. No camera, no computer, no microphones, nothing. You want to eventually shoot independent full length narrative features but will also shoot the occasional music video, commercial, or short film.

You've just been put in charge of a $40,000 budget. This is the budget for equipment only (software included) so no need to worry or concern yourself with other production costs at this time.

How would you spend $40,000 towards this goal? Where would you cut costs? Where would you invest the most? What would you save or hold out for? Is $40,000 not enough for you, and if so, how much more would you need?

Please list your purchases and discuss!

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

Wow that's really tough. Do I have to own everything I need to make projects, or can I rent some stuff too?

If I had to own, this is really tough, if you're including post-production equipment. Now if I were just making music videos I could do this on a much lower budget. Probably I'd go with an HXV-200 for affordability and that would be just fine for music videos and even documentaries, etc. A $4,000 Mac desktop or so would be enough I think to edit that type of footage without too many problems, but software adds up, $1,300 for Studio 2, and I'd probably want the three libraries of stock footage from Digital Juice (on sale: $450). It's great for music videos without high budgets.

The Indie-Dolly is ideal, inexpensive and effective, with 12 feet of straight track and 12 of curved track, that's about $2,300.

A basic lighting kit I have is just $995. Still would need a generator that'll cost a few thousand, at least a lunchbox, some stingers, etc. That's all going to add up to another chunk.

It's much easier to make a really good music video package for $40,000 than to make something I'd film a feature on, but I'm picky, if I make a feature I want the same image quality as the big guys. I've seen too many low budget films ruined by lousy image quality from cameras that just weren't meant to be used for professional projects.

I'd say the package I'll use to make my first feature including the computer will be probably about $120,000 in equipment, and I'll still rent above that.

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

I put together sort of a half list as there is still a lot of random items cables matte boxes lights microphones etc, I included the Neumanns for the ADR work cause I'm big on audio quality.

$40,000 Budget

17 inch Macbook Pro

Subtotal $5,548.00
Specifications
• 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
• 4GB 667 DDR2 - 2x2GB SO-DIMMs
• 250GB Serial ATA Drive @ 4200 rpm
• SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
• MacBook Pro 17-inch High-Resolution Widescreen Display
• Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel)
• Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English

Final Cut Studio 2 $1,299.00
Apple Keyboard + Mouse $98.00
LaCie 2TB Bigger Disk Extreme with Triple Interface $739.95
Neumann TLM 49 Condenser Studio Microphone $1499.99


Sony PDW EX1 $9,000.00
x2 $9,000.00

Sub total $27,184.94

I've got a lot missing but I could get all that for the remaining $10000

Now if only I had $40 000, I guess I could always just go get a Red Camera but I need to cut costs to get my post gear up to speed etc and I probably wouldn't see the red camera until late 2008 the way things are looking.

[kmikami]

You want to eventually shoot independent full length narrative features but will also shoot the occasional music video, commercial, or short film.

Shoot as in you want to be a DP? Or you want to direct or produce or start some kind of full service production company. I'm going to assume you want to direct since a DP shouldn't be worried about mics or software and $40k is too small of a budget to start a full blown production company.

If I had $40k cash and wanted to direct indie features, music videos, shorts and commercials, I would buy a mac, final cut studio* and an HV20 and invest the rest of the money. Then I would write and direct some shorts to build up a reel while working on writing a great feature length screenplay. When it got to a point where I knew I had a brilliant finished script that was ready to produce, but if my shorts weren't good enough to attract any gigs, industry attention or financing for the feature, then I would try to produce the film myself using the money I had invested and renting all of the gear.

This is of course assuming that you're talking cash. If you're talking about a loan then I would do the same thing minus the money.

* I was also going to add the adobe production bundle but I'm guessing if you don't have any of this yet then you don't know how to use any of it either and won't be doing any kind of vfx or motion graphics.

[Shawn Nelson]

$30k Red Package, $5k Mac setup, $2.5k lighting kit, $2.5k audio kit

[Joel Kaye]

Please list your purchases and discuss!

Figure out what roles you want to do personally. After that I'd look for key talent that will fill roles you can't do and see what they already own and will bring to the project.

If you just guess you'll burn a lot money on duplicate gear.

This is so hypothetical I don't think it can really be answered well. Personally, I'd make sure I held out a good chunk of money for the marketing budget.

[Stephen Gentle]

$30k Red Package, $5k Mac setup, $2.5k lighting kit, $2.5k audio kit

What about storage? You'll probably need a few terabytes of RAID or SAN storage... That could be another $5 - $10K.

I'd probably go for an EX1 like CraigWB, if I had to buy everything for $40K... Now, if that was just for the camera...

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

Not to nitpick Craig, but you'd go with the extremely slow 250 gig hard drive over the much faster 160? I just bought that machine in July, 2.4 Ghz, 17" HD monitor, etc., and definitely went with the 7,200 RPM hard drive -- you need a faster hard drive if you want to do work on that machine. Just get a $200 external with 750 gigs (my friend just found one for that) and you're good to go on storage capacity.

[Joe Vinson]

$30k Red Package, $5k Mac setup, $2.5k lighting kit, $2.5k audio kit

I don't think $5k would buy a Mac that's worth a flip for editing Red footage.

Storage is another thing that will add up on you. Get the build-to-order RAID card on the Mac Pro and a few extra internal SATA drives for editing; you do NOT want to edit footage on external firewire drives, unless you like skipped frames galore and the eventual, inevitable project crash.

Unless you're going entirely handheld, you'll need another $4k at least for tripods and other support (dolly, jib, etc.).

[C.H.Haskell]

I second shawn. 5k would certainly get you a mac ready to cut RED and that includes 2T of space.

Tripod is a must (for me at least) and depending how how you configure your RED camera package, you should be able to save enough for a decent tripod.

Then go find some work so you can bring home the bacon!

[Yannick Hagman]

I guess the RED-way is to expensive for 40'000 $ if you haven't already some equipment available. But depending on your project you should rent a lot and ask(!) others, if your idea is great, there's a big chance for getting things just for expenses. Depending on your project you only get things that you're using often. Like kinoflos for music videos..

I would recomment shooting personal and starting-projects on something like a HV20 with adapter and to rent a RED for top-notch, paid work or even to get used to the workflow from time to time, this becomes more interesting if there are more REDs out there.

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

Not to nitpick Craig, but you'd go with the extremely slow 250 gig hard drive over the much faster 160? I just bought that machine in July, 2.4 Ghz, 17" HD monitor, etc., and definitely went with the 7,200 RPM hard drive -- you need a faster hard drive if you want to do work on that machine. Just get a $200 external with 750 gigs (my friend just found one for that) and you're good to go on storage capacity.

I choose it in a hurry so maybe I would have gone with the 160 if I had gone out and actually bought one.
But really all my footage would end up going on the external 2TB disk that I had later on in the list along with the scratch disk etc etc.

[chuck colburn]

I'd buy a tool makers lathe and mill and a Brown & Sharpe surface grinder.
Set up a precision machine shop and crank out my new follow focus design and whatever lens mount anybody wanted. Mayby do a little lens repair on the side if I liked you enough. lol

[Stephen Williams]

Hi,

Thats easy, pay the DOP $40.000, he gets the crew & equipment as a favor:tongue: .

Stephen

[Dexter Gregoire]

Starting out?
Buy the equipment! Make friends with people who'll work for food and make them sign the waiver.

I'd still buy a Red package at $27,000. $5000 for Computer. $5000 for tripod. Mixer & Microphone for $3000. There's 40, Ooops I forgot lights. I'll just go to Home Depot.:clown2:

Owning the equipment gives me leverage so I can always start over if my project doesn't take off.

Just don't compromise on quality.
Buy good stuff or Rent it!

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

Starting out?
Buy the equipment! Make friends with people who'll work for food and make them sign the waiver.

I'd still buy a Red package at $27,000. $5000 for Computer. $5000 for tripod. Mixer & Microphone for $3000. There's 40, Ooops I forgot lights. I'll just go to Home Depot.:clown2:

Owning the equipment gives me leverage so I can always start over if my project doesn't take off.

Just don't compromise on quality.
Buy good stuff or Rent it!

Define "Red Package at $27,000" what does this include.

[Dexter Gregoire]

Red Body 17,500
Basic Pack 1,250
Red LCD 1,700
Red Battery Pack 1,450
Red Flash Module 500
Birger Mount & FF 1,400
1 Canon lense 1,300 (For Now, To Start)

For the grand total of $25,100
But that's not all.
I'd buy a lens hood and a polarizer from the Canon lense store, for my Canon lense. They sell them as attachments. $500-$1000 would be the expected cost.

At least take care of the most important part, the Red

[chuck colburn]

Dexter

If you aren't going to buy a tripod mayby you should consider at least a shoulder mount.

[Dexter Gregoire]

I am planning to buy a new tripod and a few lenses with a Matte box. I was just answering to the previous post from CraidWB about keeping a Red under $27,000. Tricky, but do-able.

Chuck, what shoulder mount are you talking about? Doesn't the Basic Production pack come with a shoulder type pad?

[chuck colburn]

Well DUH....I knew that. lol

thanks Dexter

[Jaime Vallés]

I agree with Dexter's package. The beauty of REDCODE is you can edit in 1K proxy without the need for a huge RAID setup. Careful planning will make your limited funds go a long way.

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

Short term the XDCAM is a better option I mean seriously if I where to order a Red one with everything I wanted today when do you think I would get it.
My bet is mid - late 2008

[Dexter Gregoire]

If you ordered today? My guess is April 2008. Just enough time to get a crew together, reread that screenplay with a group of people and start picking pretty locations.

To me buying a red is future proofing my investment. The industry is changing slowly in this direction.

Software is becoming more compatible with these kinds of footage. It's the future. I like to use professional tools. Professionals are using this tool for feature films.

[Yannick Hagman]

Owning the equipment gives me leverage so I can always start over if my project doesn't take off.

What do you mean?

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

I definitely don't think you could get a RED package for $40,000, unless you're talking about a mix of buying and renting. I mean you just can't skimp out that much. I've heard you should be using at least a Video 18 tripod for almost $9,000 if you're going to shoot with the RED and be serious about it, and a good computer with storage is going to cost you quite a bit, too. I wouldn't shoot with the RED if I had $40,000. If I had $80,000, I'd fine some way to make that money work with the RED, then it's realistic. $40K, too little. Plenty for the camera itself and a lens or two, but as far as other production equipment, needing post stuff like a computer and software, lighting, dolly, etc., no way.

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

wait a min 9,000 for a tripod? I think I missed something here.

[Damien Molineaux]

wait a min 9,000 for a tripod? I think I missed something here.

$9'000 may sound expensive, but if you're thinking about shooting serious fiction, that's prety realistic. If you build yourself a trimmed down Red package you could get away with a $5'000 or $6'000 tripod. Anything below that will not be adequate for a Red One. A good tripod is essential, this is not an HVX.

Cheers,
Damien

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

Explain

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

Trust me, when I first came to this forum I had no clue what I was talking about as far as equipment prices, necessities, etc. (just ask anyone here, hehe), but as you begin researching this stuff more you realize -- much to your dismay -- that equipment for professional grade shooting is simply not cheap.

I think one thing people forget in all of the excitement of a relatively affordable camera is this is still a professional tool that requires, for best results, professional accessories. Not many people are going to want to use the RED without a follow focus, for instance, certainly if you're going to rent it out, that will be expected. And while a $600 tripod, comparatively incredibly cheap, can be made to work just fine for your XL-2 or something, it won't even begin to do the job for the RED. It's the fluid head that is just so important to a nice image, and that right now cannot be attained for something professional like the RED for cheap. You could even spend up to $14,000 on a top of the line tripod. But from what I understand you can certainly get by with about an $8,000-9,000 tripod.

I personally think there are just some things in this industry you don't skimp out on. One of them is a tripod. If you treat it well, it will last a long time, and be a very valuable tool. If you have a great camera but a lousy tripod, it's not going to help your image quality much.

Also when you look around at accessories, they're always cheaper for semi-professional or high-level amateur shoots, like you can get a decent steadicam for $600 or something to use for a prosumer camera, but you could spend $25,000 or more on a completely professional steadicam for serious filmmaking. The price difference really rockets up when you're no longer talking about filming low-budget music videos but serious feature films with an intended wide audience. The equipment is just too highly specialized to sell for cheap.

The problem isn't the materials, though. Guaranteed if 1 in 4 Americans couldn't live without a great tripod, they'd cost like $2,000 because there would be such mass production of all the parts that lower profit margins would be acceptable and overall unit costs would plummet. But that's not the reality. Very very few people in the world, relatively speaking, need an incredible industry professional tripod, and most people who do end up renting that kind of equipment, I gather.

I still think a lot of RED owners might be better served by owning the camera body, the batteries, the EVF, and some form of basic recording media, then renting the rest on a project-by-project basis, unless they intend to rent the stuff out themselves, of course. But you could really cut costs down by just getting a basic package, maybe even picking up that 18-85mm zoom next summer, then if you need primes, rent 'em, great tripod, rent it, etc.

[whachusay]

$30k Red Package, $5k Mac setup, $2.5k lighting kit, $2.5k audio kit Strait the point!!! LOL:)

[Dexter Gregoire]

Hi Muroshi,
When you own the equipment, you can learn to master it because there is no time limit as to when it has to be returned. Also if you hire a DP when they come, they don't want you to play with their equipment. So you don't learn anything. How many rental days would it be, to cover the cost of the Red?
I figure paying for 30 days of rental I could have owned the Red. An advertising company that gets aproached for commercials 2-5 times a year is in a better position to rent everybody. But if you want this to be your thing, don't tell a carpenter to rent a hammer. He won't. The leverage I'm talking about by owning your own equipment (if this is your thing), is that project after project after project your total overall cost relatively stays the same vs. Renting. Start over again by doing another new project, your short, your friends short, your friends music video. If you are starting out the Red is a great investment (if this is your thing). There are tripods that support 35lbs or 16kg's for around $5000, look around. Ask yourself, what do you want to be doing for the next ten or twenty years? Develop a plan, write it down and dicipline yourself to excute the plan to the best of your ability. Eventually the money will come. I have an admiration for people who become successful, it's inspiring.

[Harmonica]

$9'000 may sound expensive, but if you're thinking about shooting serious fiction, that's prety realistic. If you build yourself a trimmed down Red package you could get away with a $5'000 or $6'000 tripod. Anything below that will not be adequate for a Red One. A good tripod is essential, this is not an HVX.

Cheers,
Damien

What's wrong with a used O'Connor 50 or 100?

[kmikami]

Hi Muroshi,When you own the equipment, you can learn to master it because there is no time limit as to when it has to be returned. Also if you hire a DP when they come, they don't want you to play with their equipment. So you don't learn anything.

What are you trying to learn though? This still hasn't been answered. You want to be a DP? Skip all of the computer and post stuff. You want to direct? Then you really don't need to be "playing" with the DP's gear. You need to learn to write, tell a story, work with actors, etc. What you need to know about cameras, composition and lighting can be learned with a still camera or cheap video camera. You don't need to know how to pull focus or any of that stuff.

[Matthew Rogers]

Much of what I am seeing in this thread is people talking about buying NEW equipment with $40,000. While you have to buy the RED and certain accessories, most of the stuff you can buy used and it will last a long time. I know that my budget is $50,000-$60,000 for the RED. Now, that includes about $10,000 for grip gear (and $10,000 in USED gear will get me more than I have room for.) There are things like buying a used tripod for $5k instead of buying a new one for $9k.

Something we need to remember, the technology is only going to get lighter. You don't need a 100lbs+ tripod to support the RED. Lenses are in the future the only item that isn't going to get lighter. Even then, most 25-250's are in the 13-16lb range. Unless you shooting stuff like sports, you aren't going to have lenses much bigger.

Just my thoughts.

Matthew

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

What are you trying to learn though? This still hasn't been answered. You want to be a DP? Skip all of the computer and post stuff. You want to direct? Then you really don't need to be "playing" with the DP's gear. You need to learn to write, tell a story, work with actors, etc. What you need to know about cameras, composition and lighting can be learned with a still camera or cheap video camera. You don't need to know how to pull focus or any of that stuff.

I've found that when your starting out as a director it's a good idea to learn everything.

[kmikami]

I can't think of a single director I admire that started out by buying every piece of gear necessary to make a movie. That seems like a good way to start a career in the rental business though.

[Yannick Hagman]

Hi Dexter,

Of course it's an advantage if you have the money for it. But it depends very much on your goals and intentions. I don't know of a good director/dp in person. There are freaks for anything. And you can't do everything. The Red is a rather heavy toy without a crew, just to learn.

Digital cameras don't have the same timescale as it's analoge predecessors. You certainly need to shoot very much in that 3-4 years.

I'm starting out to direct and don't even have 5'000 $. So I decided to get a HV20 and an SGpro. That's enough for the beginning and I can get some ideas to the screen. The writing takes much time, I fear I even will feel bad for the HV20 "sitting" in my room at times. You always can make something better. But you can also shine with consumer-equipment, I believe. Maybe even more. It doesn't forgive that much and flaws become even more apparent.

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

you guys need to see the making of bad taste

[Dexter Gregoire]

I hear you, writing takes time. I've written 3 screenplays with a friend of mine. We meet twice a week for about an 1 1/2 hour to 2 hours. It still takes us 10 months to complete and I need more time for rewrites.
All the directors I admire started out 15+ years ago. Back then, there weren't many options, Film or ????. Which means you rent.
The beauty of today, is you can own something that is comparitive to film at an affordable price. Even some Consumer Cameras put out decent enough pictures for someone starting out. People have shined using such cameras. So Muroshi or anyone can shine with a good story and any camera. What kind of work are you doing? Are you doing shorts?

Amazing history behind Jackson's 'Bad Taste'. I heard he used his money from working at a newspaper company. Can you believe that? Look at what he's doing now. Impressive, Wow.

[kmikami]

I just went and read about Bad Taste. The story is pretty interesting but it sounds like he bought a used 16mm camera, rented the editing equipment and shot MOS. He spent $25k on the film which is interestingly, according to an inflation calculator, about $44k in today's dollars. Then the New Zealand Film Commission came in and gave him $200k (New Zealand dollars) to finish it. I think there's a big difference between spending $40,000 and having a finished feature to launch your career and spending $40,000 and having a bunch of equipment that is rapidly depreciating while you learn how to use it all.


All the directors I admire started out 15+ years ago. Back then, there weren't many options, Film or ????. Which means you rent.

The point is that renting is always cheaper, apart from some ridiculous rental prices for certain prosumer video cameras. As someone who can't afford to buy a Red, part of the appeal to me is the promise that rental prices should fall as drastically as the cost of the camera has. That in addition to not having to pay for film and developing is a big cost savings for the no-budget filmmaker. To me the obvious response is not "wow, now I can afford to own the camera" but "now I have more money for other areas of my movie's budget."

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

It's not like I'd spend 40k and spend x months fiddling with it I'd find a bunch of dudes and shoot a film with that gear.

[Yannick Hagman]

So Muroshi or anyone can shine with a good story and any camera. What kind of work are you doing? Are you doing shorts?

I'm an office clerk for my daytime job. With the HV20 I will do some commercials instead of shorts. My goal is that of becoming a commercial director.

[red1225]

Very nice RED package w/ two zoom lenses +/- $44,000.
O'connor 2575B head (used) $ 9,000.
Arri matte MB-18 (new) $ 7,000.
Arri FF-2 (used) $ 1,000.
Ronford standard stix $ 1,200.
FCP Studio 2 $ 1,300.
Mac desktop w/ all the necessary. +/- $10,000.
audo gear (est.) $ 8,000.
grip/electric gear (enough for a feature) $75-100,000.
on and on and on and on and on.

Tom Cruise $25,000,000.00