RED #41 commercial 9/11/07 PNG's

[Mark Mannschreck]

Red 41 out Tuesday for 1st commercial shoot (BEDSHEETS!)... PNG's and now 1k quicktimes on mediafire (links below)

RED 41 went down at around noon - wouldn't recognize CF cards. Luckily we were shooting in Irvine and close to Red HQ - Zak came out to try and fix - no go - took #41 - Zak brought back prototype "London" - we had to switch to HVX for a scene. The "Stuck Pixels" in some shots (Girl/Boy) are from the Prototype London and not my production camera Red #41.

LINKS VIA MEDIAFIRE TO DOWNLOAD PNG'S and one TIFF

Just brought through Redalert! - Sharpening low - 709 space - all either 320 or 500 ASA - on 18-50mm zoom at 5.6-8

File name: nakedbed.png

http://www.mediafire.com/?6ct3wvjmgn3

File name: boy_n_ps3.png

http://www.mediafire.com/?5wydxzipbrl

File name: boy_n_ps3_2.png

http://www.mediafire.com/?bc9je069ogw

File name: girl.png

http://www.mediafire.com/?6jdvl1mjycy

File name: girl_2.png NOW WORKING!

http://www.mediafire.com/?auzrgrtydtr

File name: host.png

new settings asa 250/output sharpening off/leading lady detail

http://www.mediafire.com/?ftzxmynmxxs

host HVX comparison:

http://www.mediafire.com/?9t7yr1gyd1j

newer host HVX grab

http://www.mediafire.com/?5grttig5rx2

opened in Photoshop changed image size 1280 resampling bicubic

720 24PN cine-d aperture 4.0

File name: man_woman.tiff

http://www.mediafire.com/?5za9tzmzdzv

File name: sheets.png

http://www.mediafire.com/?bnon3djeumg

1k quicktimes

File name: bed_6mov
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?1nytvwrlncw

File name: boy_2.mov
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?f5lznjy51kx

File name: boy_5.mov
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?8txmip2xm1j

File name: girl_4.mov
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?a1exnoojt2g

File name: host_2.mov
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?b3gdvje1djm

File name: man_and_woman.mov
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?45wsmumzx1y

File name: man_in_bed_1.mov
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?dueyndv0nbh




some production stills...

[Steve Freebairn]

Wow, thank stinks. Thanks for sharing all the images. At least Red took care of you really quick.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Great pictures!

Excellent lighting!!!

[Evan Owen]

Awesome stuff!

Umm... girl_2.png isn't working... :huh:

[Laco Zamba]

Look at window on boy_n_ps3.png
It's fantastic DR

Thanks for sharing.

[Justin Kirchhoff]

weird one of them went down.....was it really hot in the room? what exactly was 'haywire' about the camera?

[Michael Schrengohst]

At least you were in LA, what happens to
us "hicks in the sticks" when a RED craps out?
I can hear Panasonic now - "HVX saves a RED shoot"

But I must say the stills were very clean!

You have to watch your logos and titles of
books etc...in SD you could never read that stuff,
in 4K everything shows up - including the dust
on the nightstand. LOL

Hope you get that camera back in working order,
it has a very nice look!

What monitor were you using off-camera?

Where can I get those sheets?

[Nik Manning]

Wow Red is the cleanest camera ever. Everything looks like the new superman movie!

[Evan Owen]

This is nice footage Manny! I'm envious...

But I have to do this. A line in the compression, AND lots of stuck pixels? Wow, the blue channel hasn't been having such a good month... :sad:

From girl.png and boy_n_ps3_2.png:

[Miltos Pilalitos]

This compression line looks like one more example of Split Compression (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4450)

Hmmm. i thought it was fixed...

[Michael Schrengohst]

This is nice footage Manny! I'm envious...

But I have to do this. A line in the compression, AND lots of stuck pixels? Wow, the blue channel hasn't been having such a good month... :sad:

From girl.png and boy_n_ps3_2.png:

Yeah, I see them now....
Maybe those were a pre-cursor
sign to something going
wrong with the camera?

Most of the frames did not
exhibit those stuck pixels.

[Evan Owen]

Yeah, I see them now....
Maybe those were a pre-cursor
sign to something going
wrong with the camera?

Most of the frames did not
exhibit those stuck pixels.

At least two of them did (both shots of the boy), and in both the red and blue channels (I guess that's what happens when Bayer sensor photosites stick?).

Since it shows up in both frames of the same shot, it's probably related to the problem Manny referred to. Could it be an overheating sensor?

[Mark Mannschreck]

The shots of the boy were with prototype "London" - but so was the shot of the girl. I'll try and re-upload girl_2

[Mark Mannschreck]

Look at window on boy_n_ps3.png
It's fantastic DR




Thanks for sharing.

We did ND the window .6

[Mark Mannschreck]

weird one of them went down.....was it really hot in the room? what exactly was 'haywire' about the camera?

Not hot at all in there - it seems it was a CF write issue. It stopped recognizing the "Digimag"

[Mark Mannschreck]

What monitor were you using off-camera?

Where can I get those sheets?

Panny 1700W - used the built in Histogram extensively. The sheets are called "Neatsheets" - I'm not sure if they are out yet.

[Michael Schrengohst]

So, the stuck pixels were shot with "London" the prototype?
And your problem seemed to be with the CF recorder
and not the camera?
What connector were you using out of the camera into the Panny 1700W.
And here is a really stupid question - does the RED output color bars?

[Mark Mannschreck]

So, the stuck pixels were shot with "London" the prototype?
And your problem seemed to be with the CF recorder
and not the camera?
What connector were you using out of the camera into the Panny 1700W.
And here is a really stupid question - does the RED output color bars?

I haven't examined the stills yet. It was connected to the "preview". The Red does output bars via that connection. The camera began acting funny in the middle of recording a shot... it stopped and the screen froze. I re-booted and it hung on the boot. Called Jarred who had me unplug it from the wall for 15sec. It re-booted but never recognized the CF after that. Then we shot with the HVX until Zak delivered "London". We shot the Boy, Girl, and linen closet with "London"

[Mark Mannschreck]

girl_2.png should now be working

Download link:

http://www.mediafire.com/?auzrgrtydtr

[Evan Owen]

I haven't examined the stills yet. It was connected to the "preview" mini sdi. The Red does output bars via that connection. The camera began acting funny in the middle of recording a shot... it stopped and the screen froze. I re-booted and it hung on the boot. Called Jarred who had me unplug it from the wall for 15sec. It re-booted but never recognized the CF after that. Then we shot with the HVX until Zak delivered "London". We shot the Boy, Girl, and linen closet with "London"

The linen closet shot and even the shot with the girl are great, as far as I can tell. I'm wondering what caused the stuck pixels on the shot with the boy...

Anybody from RED wanna chime in? It was a pre-production camera, but still.

[EDIT]
I sharpened the blue channel of girl_2 and scaled a crop to 200% with nearest neighbor filtering and you can see some of the interesting things people have been noticing:

1) The split compression line.
2) Compression artifacts.
3) Grid-like pattern from the demosaic process, still easily visible because the compression occurs prior to demosaicing (hence, compressed RAW).

Are these a problem? Not really. Of the three, I'd be most worried about the split compression line, but really only if you're doing alot of VFX work.

[Álex Montoya]

Nice pics, manny, but I don't feel that sharpening, even mild, is needed with the RED.

[Jannard]

Startups rarely go smoothly. Mark had a problem and we are doing our best to fix it. Just like we would do for any of our customers.

Jim

[Mark Mannschreck]

BTW - It was VERY cool of them to come to our location not once but three times to help us out. We were lucky to be close to RED HQ!

[Mark Mannschreck]

link to HVX PNG

http://www.mediafire.com/?9t7yr1gyd1j

compare to

http://www.mediafire.com/?8mwl111zdn1

just opened HVX clips in FCP and exported PNG. Opened in photoshop to change image size to 1280

[Guy]

Jim,

Can you shed any light on the split compression issue?

more examples on this thread:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4450

Thanks

[Ramesh Jai]

I can hear Panasonic now - "HVX saves a RED shoot"

LOL!!

[Häakon]

That HVX still looks downright embarassing by comparison.

These are the kinds of tests we need to see more of - the side by side stuff really shows off the differences in resolution, compression artifacts, detail, depth-of-field capability, dynamic range, highlight handling, and just about every other area where RED crushes the competion. Thanks for taking the time to share.

[Mark Mannschreck]

I was gonna possibly post some frames from redAlert! with NO changes except for asa and wb. I've leaned alot about RedAlert! since posting this AM. I have been compressing Red to (uhg) DVCProHD 72024 all day.

[Michael Schrengohst]

Excellent, hope we can see some of those lovely images moving.

[C.H.Haskell]

Yikes...my HVX will never feel (or look) the same, blast!

Good luck with #41 and nice work!

[Rick Darge]

I keep toggling between that HVX grab and the Red grab.. damn.. the HVX is such a piece of crap compared to red. .. looks like SD

[Ryan Sims]

To be completely fair, it looks like the HVX PNG file is only an 8bit file. Any way to get a 16bit PNG for the HVX. All the RED PNGs are at 16Bit. It's not like it the color bit depth is really gonna help the resolution. There really is no contest.

Thanks for using PNGs. I hope everyone finds them as useful.

[Michael Schrengohst]

DVCPRO HD is only 8 bit.
So a 16 bit PNG won't help.
But that was a good shot for
comparison sake.
What did your client say when the RED
went down?

[Mark Mannschreck]

What did your client say when the RED
went down?
I diverted attention by immedietely yelling "that's Lunch!"

When everyone came back I had the HVX high up on a jib with a Red sticker on the side.

[Michael Schrengohst]

!!!
LOL, I wondered when someone was going to do that!!

[robbo]

I diverted attention by immedietely yelling "that's Lunch!"

When everyone came back I had the HVX high up on a jib with a Red sticker on the side.

LOL - too funny !:biggrin:

[Spike Baumann]

Mediafire is slow as a one legged dog trying to dig a hole on a frozen lake.

[Jim Arthurs]

I keep toggling between that HVX grab and the Red grab.. damn.. the HVX is such a piece of crap compared to red. .. looks like SD

No more need to toggle... HVX scaled up to 4K, then both resized to 2K...

http://ftp.datausa.com/imageshoppe/outgoing/RED/RED-vrs-HVX.png

... I didn't label which is which.

Don't think I need to.

This isn't like two years ago trying to tell if the HVX's 1080p is a fraction better than the HVX's 720p.

Good times.

[Desert Rune]

No more need to toggle... HVX scaled up to 4K, then both resized to 2K...

How does it look with HVX scaled to 2K from 720P, instead of doing two interpolations... because your workflow won't make sense for someone working with HVX 720P footage.

[Jim Arthurs]

How does it look with HVX scaled to 2K from 720P, instead of doing two interpolations... because your workflow won't make sense for someone working with HVX 720P footage.

True, but the images are so far apart in resolution that it's almost a joke to even compare them in any sense of the word. We're not dealing with fractional differences in which the testing manner will influence the outcome. RED just wins.

Scale RED down to 720 and compare... it's sharper. Scale HVX up to 4K and leave them there... RED is sharper. Scale HVX to 1080 and RED down to 1080... it will be sharper... and on and on...

Oh, and we're only talking resolution... the dynamic range is a whole 'nuther world of hurt for the HVX...

[jbeale]

> two interpolations...
If it really was two interpolations, I would see your point. But downscaling from 4k to 2k is not an interpolation- is there any software that doesn't do perfect rescaling from 4k to 2k? if so, it certainly shouldn't be in professional use... (of course, as Jim A. points out, in this case there seems little question anyway)

[Jim Arthurs]

I used to do VERY careful scaling in Fusion with the best methods to understand the actual differences between the two recorded HVX modes because the rez is so close between them. It isn't an issue here.

You can't rig the test for the HVX to place, show or win.

Oh wait, I take that back... if you stand up, back up from your monitor to about eight feet, and in my case, take off the glasses... they both look about the same...

[Desert Rune]

I tried it, not as bad as your example but the differences are night and day. :)

Tried the same test with some of my Z1 footage, scaling both to 1920x1080. I'm now very depressed...

[Mark Mannschreck]

We also tested both cameras on set with the Panasonic BT-LH1700W toggling back and forth between inputs. Even at 720 the difference was amazing and pretty much reflected the side by side here - HVX very noisy and video-y... I kept checking the HVX to make sure it was set to output 720 and not SD.

[robbo]

I used to do VERY careful scaling in Fusion with the best methods to understand the actual differences between the two recorded HVX modes because the rez is so close between them. It isn't an issue here.

You can't rig the test for the HVX to place, show or win.

Oh wait, I take that back... if you stand up, back up from your monitor to about eight feet, and in my case, take off the glasses... they both look about the same...

Hi Jim/Manny or anyoneatall ! - I'd like to hear your call one day on Red cf HPX 500.
That would be an interesting comparison - I mean they're vitually the same price by the time you ditch the cheapo lens and deck the HPX with a decent bottle on the front.

I know Red will come out well in front, don't think there's any doubt about that - but it'd be interesting in a EFP/ENG scenario as to which one you might go for. Given a rental situation ... just wondering.

Thanks in advance.

[Mark Mannschreck]

Hi Jim/Manny or anyoneatall ! - I'd like to hear your call one day on Red cf HPX 500.
That would be an interesting comparison - I mean they're vitually the same price by the time you ditch the cheapo lens and deck the HPX with a decent bottle on the front.

I know Red will come out well in front, don't think there's any doubt about that - but it'd be interesting in a EFP/ENG scenario as to which one you might go for. Given a rental situation ... just wondering.

Thanks in advance.

I might do that soon... my local camera rental shop just received an HPX and they want to rent my Red. I was gonna bring #41 in there to test anyway...

[robbo]

cheers, Manny !

[Joel Kaye]

I keep toggling between that HVX grab and the Red grab.. damn.. the HVX is such a piece of crap compared to red. .. looks like SD

I was saying that the HVX looked like uprezzed SD after I bought one of the first ones and started doing a BUNCH of side by side stuff with other cameras. Once I knew the truth I had to sell it. I felt like my girl cheated on me. Real 1080P my a$$!

It was easy to sell though. :-)

Red is the real deal... holy crap. And I'm not too scared of skin in 4K either. This model is a prime example. It's the HD sharpening we're used to that's so hard on skin. OK - maybe ECU's are going to need some post work.

[Mark Mannschreck]

I was saying that the HVX looked like uprezzed SD after I bought one of the first ones and started doing a BUNCH of side by side stuff with other cameras. Once I knew the truth I had to sell it. I felt like my girl cheated on me. Real 1080P my a$$!

It was easy to sell though. :-)

Red is the real deal... holy crap. And I'm not too scared of skin in 4K either. This model is a prime example. It's the HD sharpening we're used to that's so hard on skin. OK - maybe ECU's are going to need some post work.

I was debating posting them side by side as I'll need to sell my HVX in the coming months... In RedAlert there is the option of turning sharpening off. I used on and the low setting. There are also detail settings... with one of the three options being "leading lady"

[Joel Kaye]

I was debating posting them side by side as I'll need to sell my HVX in the coming months... In RedAlert there is the option of turning sharpening off. I used on and the low setting. There are also detail settings... with one of the three options being "leading lady"


Don't even worry about selling your HVX. It's got a cult following out there.

So did you need the leading lady setting? And is that a light blur or something? Or selective blur on reds/yellows?

How are you feeling about her skin/freckles/wrinkles in 4K? (I mean, if I have to hire 19 year olds for everything I'll make it work...)

[Mark Mannschreck]

Don't even worry about selling your HVX. It's got a cult following out there.

So did you need the leading lady setting? And is that a light blur or something? Or selective blur on reds/yellows?

How are you feeling about her skin/freckles/wrinkles in 4K? (I mean, if I have to hire 19 year olds for everything I'll make it work...)

Didn't use the leading lady setting and no blur added. Since we only got off one take in that location before the Red/CF thing happened, that section will be only from the HVX and I'm not worried about post softening that! I am also going to bring this frame back into redalert and do it over... Highlights can be brought down... it was before I got a feel for the RedAlert prograemme.

[Álex Montoya]

That's what I was gonna ask. The highlights on the "Host"ess face seem like artificially blown out, something that RedAlert! would do. Did you raise the exposure slider?

[Joel Kaye]

redalert and do it over... Highlights can be brought down...

Yeah - I was curious if that actually blew out or was just a post thing.

[Mark Mannschreck]

That's what I was gonna ask. The highlights on the "Host"ess face seem like artificially blown out, something that RedAlert! would do. Did you raise the exposure slider?
No but Redalert knows what asa the camera was at. I'll basically take it back in and rate it at 320 instead of 500. Then click exposure until my histogram is all in. That highlight is WAY hot and it was a test shot before we finished setting the reflector outside. I'll see what I can get out of it tomorrow night (shooting again tomorrow)

[Álex Montoya]

I am also going to bring this frame back into redalert and do it over

If you accept suggestions, please try not applying any sharpening

[Mark Mannschreck]

If you accept suggestions, please try not applying any sharpening

SURE - Redalert defaults to sharpening on/low I think

[Álex Montoya]

Interestingly enough, the detail of the cushion in the "girl" PNG, is one of the best examples of the resolution that this camera is capable of.

[Floris Liesker]

I'm not very pleased with the look of the highlights on the hosts face in the red picture vs the HVX. The Red's blown out parts have got sharp edges, sharper than anything else in the pic.
Did you try and use DRX in Red Alert? That should help ease the sensor's blown-out parts. But maybe the sensor wasn't blown out at all and it's just Red Alert that hits the roof. I actually think that that is the case, otherwise the edges of the blown parts would have been just as soft as the edge of a dead pixel, like we saw in the nakedbed pic.
Red Alert doesn't seem to do a good job at soft clipping... Maybe you better make Red Alert convert the picture into something safe, with the total histogram visible and do the clipping later.

I'd be curious what the picture looks like with the leading lady setting and no output sharpening and the exposure or ASA as low as you need it to be to rescue all that's in the pic...

[Bokes]

We all know RED is going to trump the HVX in every way- but to be fair- I have seen much better images from a HVX than the one posted.

[Dan McCain]

Anyone interested in selling your HVX200 (In good condition) please PM me.

[Mark Mannschreck]

I'd be curious what the picture looks like with the leading lady setting and no output sharpening and the exposure or ASA as low as you need it to be to rescue all that's in the pic...

still clipping in highlights but better - asa 250/output sharpening off/leading lady detail

http://www.mediafire.com/?ftzxmynmxxs

[Mark Mannschreck]

newer HVX grab

http://www.mediafire.com/?5grttig5rx2

opened in Photoshop changed image size 1280 resampling bicubic

720 24PN cine-d aperture 4.0

[jbeale]

still clipping in highlights but better - asa 250/output sharpening off/leading lady detailhttp://www.mediafire.com/?ftzxmynmxxs
I think this can look nice, maybe I overdid the color sat on her shirt- I'm not sure what color it's supposed to be. Note to self: when shooting raw, don't forget to shoot a colorchecker chart...

http://www.bealecorner.com/D30/misc/RED-host_thurs_cc.jpg

[Álex Montoya]

Comparative HVX-RED. Hmmm... the RED's the one on the left.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/1434_1189708076.jpg

[Floris Liesker]

Hmm, played around in photoshop with it a bit.
The clipping seems less harsh, so that's good.
The saturation seems quite low, did you leave color space at camera RGB instead of REC 907?

I think with the Red One clipping someone's face is to be avoided. There's enough latitude in the camera to shoot a little under.
On the other hand: the LnAcc.mov of Evin clips big parts of the background, but I don't have a problem with that at all. It looks soft and nice.
Don't know what makes the difference...

[Mark Mannschreck]

The saturation seems quite low, did you leave color space at camera RGB instead of REC 907?

Everyone's been asking for ungraded stills off Redalert - Opened in Redalert REC 709 gamma - changed ASA from 320 to 250 (watching histogram) changed exposure -0.2 and black offset to 0. Leading lady detail setting - sharpening off.

[Rick Darge]

I actually like the clipping on the left side of the hosts' face. I think it looks natural.

[Mark Mannschreck]

I'm gonna try and post some prores or dvcproHD or H.264 clips tomorrow -

[Floris Liesker]

Everyone's been asking for ungraded stills off Redalert - Opened in Redalert REC 709 gamma - changed ASA from 320 to 250 (watching histogram) changed exposure -0.2 and black offset to 0. Leading lady detail setting - sharpening off.

I don't mean the gamma setting but the color space in the top bar. That can be set to RGB or 709. Camera RGB tends to give less saturation.

I spoke to Graeme about outputting the sensor's signal as exact as possible in Red Alert. He said you should set ASA to 320, turn off the matrix, gamma linear and an exposure of -0.4.
The picture will look very weird with a linear gamma and no matrix, but you can see clearly what parts of the sensor are clipping...

[Mark Mannschreck]

I don't mean the gamma setting but the color space in the top bar. That can be set to RGB or 709. Camera RGB tends to give less saturation.

I spoke to Graeme about outputting the sensor's signal as exact as possible in Red Alert. He said you should set ASA to 320, turn off the matrix, gamma linear and an exposure of -0.4.
The picture will look very weird with a linear gamma and no matrix, but you can see clearly what parts of the sensor are clipping...

Ahhh... here you go!

http://www.mediafire.com/?cmyzrvt11cx

[R. Gonzales]

I diverted attention by immedietely yelling "that's Lunch!"

When everyone came back I had the HVX high up on a jib with a Red sticker on the side.

Good on Ya!! That's thinking on your feet:biggrin:

[R. Gonzales]

I used to do VERY careful scaling in Fusion with the best methods to understand the actual differences between the two recorded HVX modes because the rez is so close between them. It isn't an issue here.

You can't rig the test for the HVX to place, show or win.

Oh wait, I take that back... if you stand up, back up from your monitor to about eight feet, and in my case, take off the glasses... they both look about the same...

Hi Jim

I think it's really funny that anyone would compare the two. And by funny I mean I'm laughing my ass off right now. :w00t:

[Floris Liesker]

Ahhh... here you go!

http://www.mediafire.com/?cmyzrvt11cx

Thanks Manny. We keep asking for pics and settings and stuff and you just keep giving them without a complaint.

I think the image shows that the sensor was clipping indeed. Probably nothing unusual if there was a lot of light shining on her from that side.
It does look a lot better than all video cameras I've seen so far, but I think it's probably best to avoid clipping the sensor on larger in-focus parts of the image. The overlit street behind the boy and girl in Evin's LnAcc.mov probably looks better to me because it's out of focus and it's not the subject of the picture.

[Mark Mannschreck]

Thanks Manny. We keep asking for pics and settings and stuff and you just keep giving them without a complaint.

I think the image shows that the sensor was clipping indeed. Probably nothing unusual if there was a lot of light shining on her from that side.
It does look a lot better than all video cameras I've seen so far, but I think it's probably best to avoid clipping the sensor on larger in-focus parts of the image. The overlit street behind the boy and girl in Evin's LnAcc.mov probably looks better to me because it's out of focus and it's not the subject of the picture.

No problem. The requests are helping me with Redalert! There was a 4x4 reflector outside beaming onto her through a window with a .6 ND on it. In subsequent shots (with the HVX) we turned it a little less direct.

[Mark Mannschreck]

quicktimes

File name: bed_6mov
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?1nytvwrlncw

File name: boy_2.mov
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?f5lznjy51kx

File name: boy_5.mov
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?8txmip2xm1j

File name: girl_4.mov
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?a1exnoojt2g

File name: host_2.mov
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?b3gdvje1djm

File name: man_and_woman.mov
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?45wsmumzx1y

File name: man_in_bed_1.mov
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?dueyndv0nbh

[Evan Owen]

quicktimes


I'm impressed! Good looking footage...

I love when the lights go out in girl_4 and there's almost no noise. Very nice.

[Michael Schrengohst]

Hey Manny,
Thanks for the extra work!
Nice, when will the spot be
completed? National or regional?

[Mark Mannschreck]

Hey Manny,
Thanks for the extra work!
Nice, when will the spot be
completed? National or regional?

Completion within 2 weeks and it's cable national.

BTW - I was a fool to try and edit and finish DVCProHD

Prores is the answer

[Michael Schrengohst]

Excellent! I will be watching for it.
And we would be interested in your
workflow and feedback about using ProRes!
Thanks