Super 16 lenses on Scarlet or Epic S35 ???

[Thibaut de Chemellier]

Hi,
Will it be possible to use Super 16mm lenses on S35 Scarlet or S35 Epic like we do with the Red one with its cropped sensor ?

[Justin O'Neill]

Yes, both the S35 Scarlet and Epic have a windowed 2k mode which should work great with S16mm lenses.

[Damien Molineaux]

But in truth, the 2/3" Scarlet will be better, even perfectly, suited for S16 lenses.

With the 2/3" Scarlet and S16 lenses you will have 3K resolution, ideal for a 2K or 1080p finish, while S16 lenses on the Red ONe or on an Epic will only allow you to shoot at 2K, which is not quite sufficient for a 2K or 1080p finish.

Cheers,
Damien

[Lee Saxon]

Don't even need Super16 to cover 2/3" Scarlet, you could go regular 16mm...I think?

[Damien Molineaux]

Don't even need Super16 to cover 2/3" Scarlet, you could go regular 16mm...I think?

You are absolutely correct :

Mysterium-X 2/3" (ref. Brook's sensor chart)
* 1.89 aspect ratio (my calculation)
* sensor size: 10.1 by 5.35 mm (3072 x 1620 px)
- is this the full sensor size, which means the recording area is likely to be even smaller ? Or is there no look around ?

16mm (ref. Wikipedia)
* 1.37 aspect ratio
* camera aperture: 10.26 by 7.49 mm (0.404 by 0.295 in)

Super 16 (ref. Wikipedia)
* 1.66 aspect ratio
* camera aperture: 12.52 by 7.41 mm (0.493 by 0.292 in)

Cheers,
Damien

[David Mullen ASC]

In reality, a lot of 16mm lenses cover Super-16 anyway, it's mostly the wide-angles and the wide end of the zooms that you have to worry about. Otherwise, it's not particularly that there are whole sets of 16mm lenses and whole sets of Super-16 lenses, it's a mixed market.

[David Rasberry]

http://reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5212&d=1266536496

Comparison of image sizes for 16mm, 2/3" Scarlet, and Red 1 2k based on active pixels and pixel pitch of 3.3 microns for Scarlet and 5.4 microns for Red 1

[Bastien Tribalat]

I'll ask it here just not to make another thread as my question might have its place here....

IF there was an adaptor for Micro 4/3 lenses, what would it do with the 2/3 sensor ? (I suck at maths... lol)

[David Mullen ASC]

A 4/3 lens would cover the 2/3" sensor area just fine. A 4/3 sensor is 17.3mm x 13mm.

[David Rasberry]

4/3 format lenses will cover 3k on the S35 models quite nicely too.

[Bastien Tribalat]

What would be the crop factor on the 2/3 Scarlet ? (I'm really not good at maths, especially that kind, so let's say... what is the normal focal length of 2/3 sensors and so what Micro 4/3 length would it be ?)

I ask this because with Panasonic's and Olympus series of Micro 4/3 still cameras, there are a bunch of quite cool lenses out there.

[David Mullen ASC]

Crop factoring only makes sense if you have a familiar frame of reference -- for example, if you know what a 50mm gives you on a FF35 camera and want to know what lens on a 2/3" camera has to same field of view.

But otherwise, I'm not sure what you are asking -- a 25mm lens, for example, taken from a 4/3 camera would give you the same view on a 2/3" camera as any other 25mm lens put onto the 2/3" camera. It's a 25mm lens.

So are you so familiar with the field of views of lenses on the 4/3 cameras that you need to know the equivalent focal length on a 2/3" camera in order to get the same field of view as on a 4/3 camera?

It's not hard to figure out - let's say that the 4/3 sensor is 17mm wide and the 2/3" sensor is 10mm wide; divide 17 by 10 and you get 1.7. So it's a 1.7X conversion factor between them: you put a 17mm lens on a 4/3 camera, you'd need to use a 10mm lens on a 2/3" camera to get the same horizontal field of view. But if you put the 17mm lens from the 4/3 camera onto the 2/3" camera... it's still a 17mm lens, it just has a more telephoto view on the smaller sensor.

[Bastien Tribalat]

Hey, even if you said you didn't understand my question, I got my answer so... thanks.

[David Mullen ASC]

If you want to believe that a 50mm is a "normal" lens on a FF35 camera, then it would be around a 35mm for a S35 camera, a 25mm for a 4/3 camera, a 15mm for a 2/3" camera. More or less in that ballpark.

[Jiri Bakala]

If you want to believe that a 50mm is a "normal" lens on a FF35 camera, then it would be around a 35mm for a S35 camera, a 25mm for a 4/3 camera, a 15mm for a 2/3" camera. More or less in that ballpark.

David,

Not sure if this thread is too old for anyone to monitor - anyway, my question is the reverse. Now that we know what Scarlet is, can you use a S16mm lens and shoot in 2k? If so, what will happen with focal length? I.e. how would a s16 10-120mm zoom lens translate to shooting Scarlet windowed to 2k? What's the math formula and would this even work?

Thanks,
Jiri

[D Fuller]

David,

Not sure if this thread is too old for anyone to monitor - anyway, my question is the reverse. Now that we know what Scarlet is, can you use a S16mm lens and shoot in 2k? If so, what will happen with focal length? I.e. how would a s16 10-120mm zoom lens translate to shooting Scarlet windowed to 2k? What's the math formula and would this even work?

Thanks,
Jiri

Yes, it will definitely work. I have a Zeiss S16 zoom that I use with Epic to shoot 2K. I don't know the exact ratio, but 2K seems ver similar to S16 to me - that is, the lens feels very similar to the way it did on my Arri SR.

[Jiri Bakala]

Thanks David. One more quick question; when you shoot in 2k with s16 lenses, does the DOF change from 4k and 35mm cine lenses?

[D Fuller]

Thanks David. One more quick question; when you shoot in 2k with s16 lenses, does the DOF change from 4k and 35mm cine lenses?

Well, yes and no. It depends on what you are really asking. I recommend that you take a look at Mitch Gross's blog "A Lens is a Lens is a Lens" (http://blog.abelcine.com/2010/05/14/a-lens-is-a-lens-is-a-lens/) first.

A 25mm lens at f 2.8 at 2K has exactly the same depth of field as a 25mm lens at f 2.8 at 4K and 35mm full frame (or FX or whatever you want to call it). But the field of view is different for each.

So the DOF for the same field of view is different for 2K and 4K because you have to use a 50mm lens at 4K to see the same field of view as a 25mm at 2K. (f-stops being equal).

Does that help?