I can haz ENG?

[Aron Cohen]

I had an idea a few days ago for a possible ENG-market RED design.

My idea is that RED could make a camera body similar in style and usage pattern to many Sony, Panasonic, etc. shoulder-mount ENG cameras. My point would be that, building on RED's current modularity-focused philosophy, these camera bodies would have slots for the scarlet/epic brains. So in a sense they would just be ergonomically preconfigured storage, battery and audio modules with maybe some added format-processing. Instant broadcast camera, just add wat... Scarlet. I'm just thinking how a 2/3" scarlet could be a great ENG cam with the proper modules. This kind of a "god module" for ENG would fill the needs of many newsrooms IMO (with the 1080p recording mode obviously).

Pricing, of course, is the hard part, but I seriously think this would be an awesome project for RED to pursue sometime after the DSMC wave settles down and we have a solid product on our hands in that department.

Keep it up guys, you're killing it (the rest of the industry, that is).

[David Rasberry]

You can do this with a modular configuration of a Scarlet as it is designed now. I was looking at a used Sony PDW-350 EX as an alternative to Scarlet and configured Scarlet with the already announced modules to match most of the features of the Sony. Scarlet came out in the same price range, about $20k when outfitted like an ENG cam including the same B4 servo zoom packaged with the Sony. It would setup in a nice balanced over the shoulder rig just fine and record HD-SDI 4:2:2 encoded video to an aftermarket solid state recorder like the Convergent NanoFLash. I bet Red will also have a module down the road that records to common broadcast encoded formats too. They have already announced an H.264 module.

[Shawn Booth]

um, why though? seriously. doesn't really make any logical sense...

(shouldn't refer to yourself as a wannabe - who's gonna take you seriously?)

[Michael Hastings]

snip...

(shouldn't refer to yourself as a wannabe - who's gonna take you seriously?)

Anyone that appreciates honesty and humility over bs and hype... :)

[Shawn Booth]

Anyone that appreciates honesty and humility over bs and hype... :)

I understand this. However, claiming wannabe does not instill confidence...

There are other, better, ways of saying you're new and/or inexperienced.

[Steve Gibby]

Hmmm....

Fast turnaround Electronic News Gathering (ENG) with Scarlet? In my opinion the answer to that will be somewhere between "very workable" and "yes, it can be done" - depending on the finalization of EFP/ENG friendly features in the specifications of camera.

Slower turnaround non-hardlined Electronic Field Production (EFP) and ENG b-roll with Scarlet? Definitely! IMO it can already be assumed that the camera will absolutely excel at that.

When the technical specifications of Scarlet are finalized it will be much easier to define the strengths and weaknesses of the camera.

As far as an EFP/ENG setup and ergonomics, as modular as it is, Scarlet can be turned into whatever form factor camera you need for the style of work you do.

Final thought: IMO the biggest challenge for users of Scarlet and Epic will be for their skill sets and attitudes to be broad and open enough to effectively maximize the modularity, flexibility, scalability, and utility of the cameras :)

[Michael Hastings]

I understand this. However, claiming wannabe does not instill confidence...

There are other, better, ways of saying you're new and/or inexperienced.

I understand Shawn - just teasing.

I think he was just being a little ironic/ facetious - hence where he said "with pride"

[Aron Cohen]

my point with this was not to give advice on a one-way hardware proposition, i'm just saying i see lots of newsrooms opting for the less advanced technology because they're afraid of configuration on more difficult systems. A TV network I had an internship at last summer went the XDCam way instead of sticking with their older PAL cameras for a while before making the dive for a Scarlet-centric setup because they said the modular system was too "unstable". And in a way I understand this. They'd have to train everyone at a company of 100+ to start thinking differently about how their cameras work and that is a serious eyebrow-raiser.
Other than the modularity, though, no real problems came up. They had a full workflow thought out, awaiting implementation.

So all i'm saying is that based on my experience there might be a market for this type of product. And I'm sure they'd sell quite a few.

[Aron Cohen]

So to clarify and avoid misunderstandings:

I LOVE THE MODULAR SYSTEM. It's smart, it's versatile, it's fresh.

TV crews working in the field don't. At least as far as my experience has shown.

[David Rasberry]

my point with this was not to give advice on a one-way hardware proposition, i'm just saying i see lots of newsrooms opting for the less advanced technology because they're afraid of configuration on more difficult systems. A TV network I had an internship at last summer went the XDCam way instead of sticking with their older PAL cameras for a while before making the dive for a Scarlet-centric setup because they said the modular system was too "unstable". And in a way I understand this. They'd have to train everyone at a company of 100+ to start thinking differently about how their cameras work and that is a serious eyebrow-raiser.
Other than the modularity, though, no real problems came up. They had a full workflow thought out, awaiting implementation.

So all i'm saying is that based on my experience there might be a market for this type of product. And I'm sure they'd sell quite a few.

OR i might be crazy and should shut up, eh? Or change my signature? ...

It is true that the one piece over the shoulder ENG camera is highly evolved to the point of near perfection for its intended use. As Steve said, I don't see a Scarlet being first choice as a fast turn daily news camera. But for more deliberate doc/news magazine work or for an independent stringer it could be a good choice properly configured.

[Bruno Solaja]

Personaly, I see Scarlet as perfect ENG cam...if:
1080 RGB will be recording option,controlable B4 hd lens,flash and ssd recording media,
"good enough" audio...

If one have the time and post solution,shoot RAW.

But I am afraid that RED do not want 1080 RGB in their cameras...

[Stefan Christou]

An AVC-Intra or XDCAM-EX module would help. The thing about ENG is broadcasters want someone else to do it first, and they want something that is pretty widespread.

I can see small market stations taking on the fixed scarlet with glee so long as they can get a cheap proxy module that records in a format they already use. This happened with Panasonic and HVX-200s back in the day.

T'other thing is that a lot of news on big stations is recorded by freelance camera guys, who need to be able to give away the media they use to record on and who do not want to shoot on expensive media like P2.

Hence why Sony is doing well with Professional Disks for ENG.

I too would love a shoulder mounted Red with expendable media. Maybe we could shoot to MMC+ cards?

[Jeff Coatney]

There's really never been a good ENG camera. The ideal ENG camera should have 6 to 8 tracks of 48khz stereo sound, discreetly pre-balanced for complete autonomous (and automated) sound recording with a switchable option to record 5.1 in user-babysitting mode. It should record RAW at 1080p at 30fps. It should have a 2 second start-up instant recording option and multiple, hot swap-able CF card slots. I'd call this panic-mode. It should be have high ISO sensitivity and on-board LED's for lighting (maybe in a ring config around the lens) It should be capable of night-vision (both IR and starlight mode, with the required illumination). It should be water tight to three meters, impervious to dust and have a 30x optical zoom. It should be priced below $10,000. The housing should be desert tan or olive drab and the optics should have non-reflective coatings. It should have 30 hours of stand-by battery life, a wireless remote, all the GPS and Compass data, and an option for a satellite modem for instant upload or streaming. It should fit in the overhead bin, along with a change of clothes or two and should include a solar panel and a hand-crank generator to top off the battery in Afghanistan. Why should the military have all the fun?

[Eki Halkka]

Dunno... to me personally, an ENG module like suggested actually sounds like a Very Good Idea (TM). It's not THAT much different as a concept from the separate camera head / recording back combos that already exist, and are readily accepted by the ENG oriented folks. It could generate a metric s-load of sales. Maybe.

[Ryan Sims]

There's really never been a good ENG camera. The ideal ENG camera should have 6 to 8 tracks of 48khz stereo sound, discreetly pre-balanced for complete autonomous (and automated) sound recording with a switchable option to record 5.1 in user-babysitting mode. It should record RAW at 1080p at 30fps. It should have a 2 second start-up instant recording option and multiple, hot swap-able CF card slots. I'd call this panic-mode. It should be have high ISO sensitivity and on-board LED's for lighting (maybe in a ring config around the lens) It should be capable of night-vision (both IR and starlight mode, with the required illumination). It should be water tight to three meters, impervious to dust and have a 30x optical zoom. It should be priced below $10,000. The housing should be desert tan or olive drab and the optics should have non-reflective coatings. It should have 30 hours of stand-by battery life, a wireless remote, all the GPS and Compass data, and an option for a satellite modem for instant upload or streaming. It should fit in the overhead bin, along with a change of clothes or two and should include a solar panel and a hand-crank generator to top off the battery in Afghanistan. Why should the military have all the fun?

This sounds a lot like a Scarlet to me. :laugh:

[David Rasberry]

Personaly, I see Scarlet as perfect ENG cam...if:
1080 RGB will be recording option,controlable B4 hd lens,flash and ssd recording media,
"good enough" audio...

If one have the time and post solution,shoot RAW.

But I am afraid that RED do not want 1080 RGB in their cameras...

1080RGB is an announced feature of all the new models. So yes it will be there.
How about the H.264 module for live streaming to the net from the news site? Add 3G or 4G cell dongle and you are good to go from almost anywhere.

[Ray Palin]

If RED could come up with an archival recording format, something like XDcam disk, only better, that would be great for TV stations as well as Feature producers. A camera module recording to this archival format directly would be ideal. No need to find archival formats in post, for ENG you just want to hand over something at the end of a shoot straight away (preferably not a whole hard drive or an expensive memory card) and move on to your next shoot. Is Red Ray this solution? Is Red Ray now only a Hard Drive solution or is there a Disk option?

[Bruno Solaja]

well guys,my broadcaster finaly decided to make the big step forward...
we are switching to 16x9 SD

so we have to buy 16x9 SD cameras...

what year is it ???

and somebody said that 1080 is not good enough :-)

[DCC Erickson]

well guys,my broadcaster finaly decided to make the big step forward...
we are switching to 16x9 SD

so we have to buy 16x9 SD cameras...

what year is it ???

and somebody said that 1080 is not good enough :-)

Oh man. Sooooooo sorry.

[Bruno Solaja]

is there a forum for TV babies...
looks like I am spending my time at the wrong place

I feel so stupid

well,on the bright side,I can shoot with my nokia n95...
I only wish it have interchangeable lenses...

[Eki Halkka]

well guys,my broadcaster finaly decided to make the big step forward...
we are switching to 16x9 SD

so we have to buy 16x9 SD cameras...

Practically all broadcasts around here in Finland are still 16:9 SD.

Most of the productions are shot in HD or 4K though, some also edited. When it comes to commercials, replace "most" with "practically all" and "some" with "a lot of them".

In other words, even if your final output is SD, it doesn't actually mean you need to buy an SD camera...

[Bruno Solaja]

Eki

We can buy whatever camera...no doubt about that

but,to create NOW extra cost,just to go to 16x9...
Old footage is practically useless...and so on...

It just hit me,since I follow this comunity and trying to stay in touch with techology

[Jason Sinclair]

With a modular system you can haz lots of ENG.

[Yaque Silva-Doyle]

wow.

[dolph]

I think one of the main important things for ENG camera is build in ND.
So Scarlet could be ENG useful only with build in ND filters and good audio.

[Steve Gibby]

Dolph,

ENG (Electronic News Gathering), and non-hardlined EFP (Electronic Field Production) are two different sub-styles of shooting which share similar camera setups and functions. Both Epic and Scarlet share many EFP/ENG friendly features - so yes both Epic and Scarlet will be used widely in non-hardlined EFP, and to a lesser extent will also be used in ENG. The extremely fast turnaround time needs of ENG, where news directors and producers need near-instant access to footage, will be a limiting factor - although fixed lens Scarlet has been announced as being able to shoot 1080p RGB in addition to Raw. 1080p RGB is what ENG applications would need to shoot.

Red announced long ago that Scarlet will have built in ND filters. Being modular, Scarlet should have all the pro-level audio capabilities of Epic. Beyond the internal ND with Scarlet, its very easy and quick to use additional screw-on filters in EFP/ENG style shooting. Me and my crews have been shooting mobile non-hardlined EFP style with Red One since August 2007 - using screw on filters exclusively - as have lots of other Red One EFP-style shooters.