Silverado RED Trailer...POSTED

[Torrey Loomis]

Folks,

Our test footage has been assembled into a small concept trailer that may evolve into something larger. However, for now we put a few scenes together that show daylight, sunset, interior, etc...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdnaSMNr-qw

This was a RED ONE camera test with serial #21. Shot in under two days and edited for 48 hours straight.

Mostly natural light was used. Some lighting needed for the interiors, but not much.

Kevin Haskin with KeJo Productions directed, Eric Maddox for the post work, and Brian Hamm as the director of photography.

http://www.kejopro.com

http://www.ericmaddox.com

http://www.brianhammfilms.com

We already know about the blown spots in the welder's arc and the sunlight scene... We didn't have enough time to fix them in AE before our event Friday.

Further, there are settings in the camera that would have prevented this and we know about that now.

This was posted on FCS 2, Mac Pro with 8 Gb, REDAlert, and an eCinema DCM23 was used for critical color.

Yes--we have higher res and are evaluating where and when to post. It may be multiple mirrors, or released as a torrent. For now, you should drop by the office and see it on the eCinema...it looks AMAZING.

Also--introducing RED #3665 known as "Big Red." I know the OffHollywood guys had that cute little Dodge Charger, but check out our footage to see what a real car looks like. Ford GT40 is kinda how we roll out here...

:-)

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
Outfitter to the World's Foremost Apple Professionals
2600 East Bidwell Street, Suite 280
Folsom, CA 95630
(916) 760-0032 • FAX (916) 404-5258
tloomis@silverado.cc
http://www.Silverado.cc

Blog at http://silveradosys.blogspot.com

[Thor Wixom]

Torrey,

Good job. What a way to "test" a camera.

-Thor

[Jarred Land]

great looking stuff!

[Matt Setnes]

yikes. This is probably the most video-ish red footage i've seen. Highlights ruin it for me. Besides that, the magic hour shot was nice

I despise youtube compression

[Seung Han]

looks cool, would realy like to see in 1k or 2k though...

There should be a levy for using Youtube for RED footage, perhaps 10 cents a frame for eveyrbody who's bought a camera? :bleh:

[Mark Thorpe]

Are you sure this ain't just the collective edited CCTV footage of last years unfortunate break in at HQ?......nice looking thief though!

EDIT: Watched it a few times now. Nice to see hard work and passion. There are somethings I would have changed but thats the beauty of vision, each to their own. Nice work over all. I'm sure all the points of contention will be worked out and remedied.

Cheers,
Mark.

[Brandon Fraley]

I was at the Silverado RED meeting and saw it there, it does look pretty good...

but youtube?

...really?

[Rick Darge]

Looks awesome even for youtube compression.

What the heck is with that negative black space going on whenever we get ultra-blown highlights, ie. blowtorch shot..

[Roberto B]

I despise youtube compressionyeah.. wth??!.. :blink: you bought a red and you'll go to post at youtube!!?.. :bleh:

[Joel Kaye]

Looks awesome even for youtube compression.

What the heck is with that negative black space going on whenever we get ultra-blown highlights, ie. blowtorch shot..


The silhouette with the sun in the background shows it too. It's a sensor protection function that's going to be fixed. It should clip to white instead of black. You'll also be able to turn it off, but I'm wondering if that could endanger your sensor.

[Manolo S. Navazo]

Looks awesome even for youtube compression.

What the heck is with that negative black space going on whenever we get ultra-blown highlights, ie. blowtorch shot..

yeah on timeline 1:41 minutes the sun has a black point, we have seen this also in some other examples here in reduser.net.
i know that this also happens in photograpic emulsions if you got an hotspot which is very very overexposed, but with the digital future it wouldn`t be an problem to dissolve it, right?

TORSTER, do you have seen this black point on set/on location also in the RED-lcd?

[Ramesh Jai]

yikes. This is probably the most video-ish red footage i've seen. Highlights ruin it for me. Besides that, the magic hour shot was nice

I despise youtube compression
My sentiments exactly.

[casey warren]

Wow, the short looks awesome. Nice work. I love the pace and music, very well done.

I looked at a higher res version here..
http://www.brianhammfilms.com/red/Paranoid%20ep%201.mov
..much better then youtube

[casey warren]

I think the higher res version looks way more filmic. It doesnt look like video at all.

[Roberto B]

at last you understood.. well, better later than never.. thx

[Roberto B]

hey.. why not still higher than that?.. 1k.. 720p.. h264.. would rock :help:

[Shawn Nelson]

Wow, very nice!! Thanks for posting! You just posted more Red footage then anyone else, combined :-)

[Brook Willard]

Nice ride...

[dalemccready]

I dont' think we should go knocking the look of this piece as a demonstration of DR. It's a finished work with grade to match their intention. Personally it doesn't look like video at all, even on YouTube with that much detail in the hair. To me it looks like a 35mm commercial on YouTube.
Nice work guys.

[casey warren]

I dont' think we should go knocking the look of this piece as a demonstration of DR. It's a finished work with grade to match their intention. Personally it doesn't look like video at all, even on YouTube with that much detail in the hair. To me it looks like a 35mm commercial on YouTube.
Nice work guys.


Agreed. Definitely looks nice, even on The Tube.

Excellent color grade as well. Sort of reminds me of SIMILO back on dvxuser a while back.

[Roberto B]

Wow, very nice!! Thanks for posting! You just posted more Red footage then anyone else, combined :-)


Nice ride...maybe our pcs here suddenly became a no brainer machines.. :)

alejandro





higher version, please?

- the gang including alejandro, tina and the others sure..

[Manuel Wenger]

did the clipping to black in the welding scene and at the sunset scene occur in the Grading with Color, or in the RedAlert conversion, or is it allready visible in the RAW footage. I got a similar result with HDCAM material after grading it in color, if the whitpoint was more than 110% it went to black.

Beautiful images, nice looks and nice photography.

regards
Manuel

[Álex Montoya]

Sort of reminds me of SIMILO back on dvxuser a while back.

With all due respect...

[Roberto B]

yeah.. with all due respect.. you didn't say.. but i will.. at least as far as the little care about posting footage is concerned.. this is the first footage that would put me away from this camera if i wouldn't know what we can expect from this lovely piece of high tech.. this compression sucks.. the higher res version too.. jim should forbid any red one footage posted with less than 1k h264.. :)

[Andrae Palmer]

I wouldn't post HVX200 footage on youtube much less Red footage. Does nothing to highlight the technical edge of the camera. I could have easily done the same test with a DVX100 and Redrock Micro.

[albert rudnicki]

I love the editing
Great job !
Cheers

[Tim Lüdin]

Hey guys stop picking around. Like Dale said, it looks like 35mm commercial work to me too. Not in all the shots but you can easely see what the RED can do. Now forget the RED for a second. Its a great mini movie.
Nobody on our forum put so much work in a RED Test so far.

It seems like a lot of people here cant say what format has beeing used on youtube videos. But this one here certainly doesn't look like hvx 200.
If you know where to look you can see it.

So good work guys. Keep on posting.

Cheers
Tim
:biggrin:

[purefilm]

Looks great, can't to see what else you can do. I was wondering what is it like to edit Red footage. What kind of pitfalls if any did you have?

I have heard a lot of people comparing RED to 35 because they want the "film look" What is the film Look? I have seem some bad made for TV movies shot on 16mm or 35mm and it looked like video. So my question is what make the film look. It can't all be the camera, there has to be other elements that make it look like a Hundred million dollar project, or all made for TV features would look like hollywood blockbusters. So is it the camera or the user that makes the camera look good, or bad (videoish).

[dalemccready]

Out trots that old horse again, to sadly be whipped repeatedly in the debate of the 'film look'.

It's been posted and discussed many times. But suffice it to say take your pick of resolution, motion, depth of field, lighting, production value, design, etc, etc.

But there is no way to make a bad camera better, as they say "you can't polish a turd". It's always a question of trying to get the best tools for your job that you are able to, as you want to give your film the best leg up it can get.

[purefilm]

As long as people are comparing Red to film this subject will continue to surface.

My point, is that there are projects out there that have been shot on the best of equipment (35mm) and still look like crap, so is it the tools or the User? On the flip side I have seen things shot of lower quality (DVX 100) That looked amazing. So you tell me is it the Tool to or the user.

what I have seen so far is awesome, and I expected to be blown away again and again as the technology is learned and mastered.

[Roberto B]

Hey guys stop picking around. Like Dale said, it looks like 35mm commercial work to me too. if it looks like 35mm commercial work to you too, what can i say?.. :sarcasm: :meh: maybe may i ask anyone something that i can't know so far.. granted the ignorant that i am.. perhaps anyone over there may help me.. or our expert in russian glass.. :biggrin: maybe he may be an expert in SD video coupled with a good 35mm adapter, who knows?.. :bleh:

[Keith Alan Morris]

the higher rez version looks good to me. i was wondering when someone was going to post on youtube and what it would look like. now we know.

and let it never happen again.

jk

no, really.

[Nik Manning]

Why don't we use http://stage6.divx.com/ instead of youtube.com? They are both free right? I am just so confused about that.

[mikeburton]

Hey Guys,
Why not let www.vuze.com host the footage for you? If you plan on posting a lot more footage you can upload the full rez 4k or 2k versions for free. I can even help get you your own channel. Then you can just direct people to that link and they can download the bittorrent file at a much faster download time. I can't wait to get my RED but just like most of us, i want to see the footage at 1080p or higher rez. With vuze you don't have to worry about mirroring and paying to host those large file sizes and everyone can see your footage the way you want it to be seen. if you guys want, send me a private message and i will get it set up for you and give you more info.
By the way, all of this is completely free! I just want to see more RED footage at the best resolution until i get my own!
Mike

[Matt Setnes]

The HQ was definitely a big difference for interpretation of the Red
I hope that if everyone uses youtube, they only use it for content purposes.

[dalemccready]

There will always be varying levels of talent regardless of access and budget. But ideally those people that did a good job of DV are the people I want to see get the Red camera in their hands. But who knows, some of those projects you thought looked crap might be held in high esteem by their creators. It's a very subjective thing to call someone else's work crap not knowing the circumstances involved.

Movies are hard to make no matter what and if I happen to see a movie, no matter how bad I think it is, I have to tip my hat that the creators got so far that it's in front of me on a movie or tv screen.

[dalemccready]

C'mon guys. Yeah I'd love to see a high res version of that, but I swear if it had been shot on a lower quality camera and uploaded to YouTube it would in no way look like that.

I kind of take offense at Filmakers Gang's comment there. You know nothing of my background and experience. I'm entitled to my opinion that I still think the footage looks good despite the youtubing.

If you shoot 35mm and put it on DV it still looks like 35mm. You shoot DV and blow it up to 35mm it still looks like DV. The aquisition format is much more important than the delivery format in it's relative quality. IMHO

[Evan Owen]

the higher rez version looks good to me. i was wondering when someone was going to post on youtube and what it would look like. now we know.

and let it never happen again.

jk

no, really.

The QT version is definitely better, but there's still something wrong with it. I'm not sure how it was encoded, but it needs help. That may be one reason why everyone's shouting "Ugh, video!"

I've never liked the way "Export Using Quicktime Conversion" works over Compressor, which seems to give much higher quality results...

[Matt Setnes]

It depends on the quality of the clip before it was processed. I think you are just praising it's the best youtube footage you've seen... in that case you're correct. Dale, I'm not really understanding what you're referring to when using the 35mm term...

[Robert Berger]

did the clipping to black in the welding scene and at the sunset scene occur in the Grading with Color, or in the RedAlert conversion, or is it allready visible in the RAW footage. I got a similar result with HDCAM material after grading it in color, if the whitpoint was more than 110% it went to black.

Beautiful images, nice looks and nice photography.

regards
Manuel

Its not a good thing:angry2: , the sensor should have no problem with highlights over 110 %. I have been testing the latest Ikegami HD camera with 3 cmos chips and the same problem came up. I saw it in the b&w viewfinder already. It was a mistake in the sensor and they gave the company a new camera without the mistake!! The RED ONE should not have this mistake and they should look at it and solve it:construction: . It can be solved.:)
I shoot video clips and other shoots with big highlights and it would be a nightmare if this occur every time.

with kind regards Robert

[Evan Owen]

Its not a good thing:angry2: , the sensor should have no problem with highlights over 110 %. I have been testing the latest Ikegami HD camera with 3 cmos chips and the same problem came up. I saw it in the b&w viewfinder already. It was a mistake in the sensor and they gave the company a new camera without the mistake!! The RED ONE should not have this mistake and they should look at it and solve it:construction: . It can be solved.:)
I shoot video clips and other shoots with big highlights and it would be a nightmare if this occur every time.

with kind regards Robert

Robert, it's not a mistake. It's simply overexposure protection, in software I believe, that can be turned on and off. Apparently it's on by default at this point, but RED has confirmed that the option to turn it off will be available soon.

Don't worry. :biggrin:

[EDIT] Found it, Jarred's the one who said it:


Evin is a rock star.

The sun protection is a software on/off feature... its on right now but will be able to be turned off.

[Adrian T.]

Its not a good thing:angry2: , the sensor should have no problem with highlights over 110 %. I have been testing the latest Ikegami HD camera with 3 cmos chips and the same problem came up. I saw it in the b&w viewfinder already. It was a mistake in the sensor and they gave the company a new camera without the mistake!! The RED ONE should not have this mistake and they should look at it and solve it:construction: . It can be solved.:)
I shoot video clips and other shoots with big highlights and it would be a nightmare if this occur every time.

with kind regards Robert

No worries - it's a software thing. Here's word from Jarred:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=82632&postcount=27

[Gavin Greenwalt]

in the mean time... it should be aliased black aka put a bezier around the thing. Track it and luma key only the color 0.0 and fill with 1.0 Problem solved. You could fix both shots in under 15 minutes.

[Evan Owen]

in the mean time... it should be aliased black aka put a bezier around the thing. Track it and luma key only the color 0.0 and fill with 1.0 Problem solved. You could fix both shots in under 15 minutes.

Yeah, I wondered why they missed that on a project that seemed to have such a high production value...

Anyway, otherwise great job guys. I'm can't wait to see it a little larger! :biggrin:

[dalemccready]

It depends on the quality of the clip before it was processed. I think you are just praising it's the best youtube footage you've seen... in that case you're correct. Dale, I'm not really understanding what you're referring to when using the 35mm term...

I just mean that the shooting end is the important bit. I've honestly seen shots originated on 35mm dubbed onto dv and they looked great. you can always tell when the originating format is good even when viewed on a crappier outpt format.

[Hans von Sonntag]

I just mean that the shooting end is the important bit. I've honestly seen shots originated on 35mm dubbed onto dv and they looked great. you can always tell when the originating format is good even when viewed on a crappier outpt format.

Yes. Your right.

Apart from that I liked the storytelling and the kind of camera moves and focus pulls. Good work. I did't get the story fully, but I suppose the next part will help in this regard.

Anyway. RED originated footage must work also on YouTube. And it did. A nice real world test with a interesting short.

Hans

[Andrew Benz]

...To me it looks like a 35mm commercial on YouTube.
Nice work guys.

I agree Dale, that was my first thought. I am just getting caught up and I have not read the whole thread yet... though I thought about the adaptor thing as well.

Everyone who posts their stuff is greatly appreciated.

Thanks ya'all,

Andrew

[John V]

Gotta say not posting @ 1k or more is not a waste. Remember the major portion of the public will never know the diffrence and will never see Red in its true glory for a few years till technology catches up to Red

[Torrey Loomis]

Folks,

I read all the comments on here and appreciate that everyone is free to make their opinions known.

In regards to the black spots, yes--it was a sensor protection issue. We simply did not have time to correct this part before we showed it for our RED briefing last Friday.

We will be doing two things...

1. Fixing the black spots in AE
2. Posting a high rez version to VUZE

For those who want to try their hands at editing the files directly, I am contemplating releasing the native R3D files to anyone with a hard drive who wants to come in a copy off the native footage. However, I've yet to make a decision on this.

Jim said REDCine would be out soon for public. Would you be interested in this option if we released native R3D files to play with?

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
Outfitter to the World's Foremost Apple Professionals
2600 East Bidwell Street, Suite 280
Folsom, CA 95630
(916) 760-0032 • FAX (916) 404-5258
tloomis@silverado.cc
http://www.Silverado.cc

Blog at http://silveradosys.blogspot.com

[mikeburton]

"2. Posting a high rez version to VUZE"

Hey Torrey,
I can get Siverado Systems their own channel on Vuze. Send me a private message. I will do the same.
Mike Burton

[Tim Lüdin]

Hey guys

One more time, thankes for posting this clip. It's realy the best overall footage out there right now. You have a lot of nice shots in it that realy show the big potential of the red. Some scenes I would have graded diffrently but that's a personal thing. The editing is also great. Congrats.

Keep on posting no mather what some other guys say. :biggrin:

[Roberto B]

I kind of take offense at Filmakers Gang's comment there. You know nothing of my background and experience. I'm entitled to my opinion that I still think the footage looks good despite the youtubing.don't take it.. it's not nothing about your skills, background or experience as you accurately said.. it's about the versions you posted.. that aliasing and lower rez than 1k.. it really hurts.. you shouldn't be allowed to post again your work or any other red footage so low.. :-) do a favor to your footage and follow your own.. the TIFFS example. IT ROCKS (in capital letters just for the case you had no understood my english.. poor english, i know.. but would you have understood if i had written in latin?.. :weight_lift:)

edit
btw, thx for your TIFFS thread.. it gives hope in hard times of waiting.. between derogatory intermezzi as the latest bugging reports..

[Steve Sherrick]

don't take it.. it's not nothing about your skills, background or experience as you accurately said.. it's about the versions you posted.. that aliasing and lower rez than 1k.. it really hurts.. you shouldn't be allowed to post again your work or any other red footage so low.. :-) do a favor to your footage and follow your own.. the TIFFS example. IT ROCKS (in capital letters just for the case you had no understood my english.. poor english, i know.. but would you have understood if i had written in latin?.. :weight_lift:)

edit
btw, thx for your TIFFS thread.. it gives hope in hard times of waiting.. between derogatory intermezzi as the latest bugging reports..

No offense, but shouldn't they be allowed to post however they want, wherever they want. You can't put a rule against what they want to do with THEIR footage.

Steve

[Fix]

No offense, but shouldn't they be allowed to post however they want, wherever they want. You can't put a rule against what they want to do with THEIR footage.

Steve

agree...

[Tim Young]

For those who want to try their hands at editing the files directly, I am contemplating releasing the native R3D files to anyone with a hard drive who wants to come in a copy off the native footage. However, I've yet to make a decision on this.

I personally would love to test the post workflow with the raw r3d files. Not sure if I could make it up there to Silverado to come in and get them, but I would definitely consider it if you made them available.

By the way, I was at the training session, which was great. Thank you for making your cameras available for us to check out. We made a long drive up there to see them and it was definitely worth it.

[Roberto B]

No offense, but shouldn't they be allowed to post however they want, wherever they want. You can't put a rule against what they want to do with THEIR footage.

Steve


agree...how is it possible to take that prohibition so seriously?.. where do you guys think you are?.. this is a forum.. :) i'm not policeman nor judge.. you bring me to tears.. :) :) i'm speaking seriously.. :) believe me..

hey, btw i also agree with both of you.. filmmaker's gang is a mean reduser member.. loooooooooooooooooooool

[snodart]

I personally would love to test the post workflow with the raw r3d files. Not sure if I could make it up there to Silverado to come in and get them, but I would definitely consider it if you made them available.

By the way, I was at the training session, which was great. Thank you for making your cameras available for us to check out. We made a long drive up there to see them and it was definitely worth it.

I'm with Tim... Having some of the r3d files to work with would be great.

Thanks a ton for the info and letting everybody get some hands on with the cameras. I was there with Tim and it was well worth the 18 hours of driving.

It was great to see how well the RED performed in an indie style shoot (small crew, limited lighting, etc). Anyway, great stuff and thanks to all involved.

[Steve Sherrick]

how is it possible to take that prohibition so seriously?.. where do you guys think you are?.. this is a forum.. :) i'm not policeman nor judge.. you bring me to tears.. :) :) i'm speaking seriously.. believe me..

hey, btw i also agree with both of you.. filmmaker's gang is a mean reduser member.. loooooooooooooooooooool

Yeah, what he said.....:unsure:

[pablokorona]

the clip looks 100% better if you're viewing it on an iPhone... i have no clue why it does, but i think it ignores the flash and just plays the h.264 video...

i think it looks good, but agree with it feeling the most video. Perhaps its the DOF, maybe not... it just feels video.

[Roberto B]

:unsure:http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=86613&postcount=2

[Dave Weber]

That stuff was great. No matter what anyone else thinks. Keep sharing. Thanks for the posts.

[Sean]

Any chance you'll post on Stage6? Much much nicer compression.

Lovely work though. Very atmospheric. Best I've seen yet as far as cinematography. Hope to see higher res soon. :-)

[Roberto B]

That stuff was great. No matter what anyone else thinks.

again?..


it's not nothing about your skills, background or experience as you accurately said.. it's about the versions you posted.. that aliasing and lower rez than 1k..

[Rocco Schult]

For those who want to try their hands at editing the files directly, I am contemplating releasing the native R3D files to anyone with a hard drive who wants to come in a copy off the native footage.
...Would you be interested in this option if we released native R3D files to play with?

Torrey!
First off, incredible footage. Really nice work, concept, shooting, producing if you like. And congrats to putting that all together in 48hrs or the people involved! I know 48hr film festivals and its not an easy task. What was delivered does definitely not look like that.
And don't take this offending, but I love the editing even more than the rest. Skilled person you found there, respect to Kevin, Eric and Brian. Who did the assemby, was it Eric ?

And yes, I'd love to play around with some files, but theres no way to step by, its just a few 1000miles too much. But I could offer a mirror in case, at least for us, 'zee germans'.

cheers.