Bugs and Tips... [Archive]

Jannard

09-17-2007, 11:22 PM

As of 10/2/07
Problem-some PL mounts of 1st 50 cameras not tightened well enough during assembly and bolts becoming loose during transit. Solution is to check back-focus and tighten bolts with Locktight-red (naturally).

As of 10/1/07
Tip- You cannot record a 4K project on the same CF card as a 2K project. If you try, you will get "Incompatible Project" error message. Don't freak out. Just put in a different/new CF card after changing the format.

As of 9/26/07:

Bug- LCD display too dark- FIXED as of 9/13/07
Bug- "Codec Error"- FIXED as of 9/17/07
Bug- A/C power from charger trips when camera turned on.
Workaround- Turn on charger and turn on camera immediately when green light comes on charger.
Workaround- L-pack
Permanent fix- Firmware upgrade to the charger in the works.
Bug- EVF compatibility issue. Firmware upgrade in the works.
Bug- On camera White Balance is not 100% reliable.
Workaround- set WB in RED Alert! or REDCINE.
Permanent Fix- in the works and will be included in the next Firmware upgrade.
Error- engraving on SD card port inverted.
Fix- new engraving on cameras 101+. Cameras 1-100 are collectors items with the anomoly. :-)
Error- CF card receiver too deep in slot.
Temporary fix- use tape on CF card.
Permanent fix- replacement CF unit. Only some of the cameras 1-50 only affected.
Problem- early EVF/LCD cables sucked. Replacements sent as needed.

Tip- When upgrading firmware... insert CF or USB card with .tar file in "Upgrade" folder, turn on camera and hit enter when asked to upgrade. WAIT for the installation to finish and DO NOT turn off power, even though the blue bar stops moving. It will finish the upgrade. Read the text instructions sent with upgrade.

I will try to update this list as often as I can. We appreciate the early adopter's patience. Please don't ask if each outstanding item has been fixed because you are Serial number 4xx (or whatever). By the time you ask the question, we are probably finished fixing the issue. We are working on enabling features and solving problems daily. If the board spends too much time FUDDING, I reserve the right to re-think the process.

Jim

Johnny Friday

09-17-2007, 11:25 PM

Excellent post!

AND THANKS!

Shawn Nelson

09-17-2007, 11:31 PM

Jim, what would be the best process for reporting minor errors? Things that don't effect my ability to operate, and certainly don't warrant a call, but things I notice just the same?

Jannard

09-17-2007, 11:34 PM

Jim, what would be the best process for reporting minor errors? Things that don't effect my ability to operate, and certainly don't warrant a call, but things I notice just the same?

Shawn... you can email/call me, or you can email/call any of the RED OPs dudes, Kevin, Zak or Sean. The next layer after that is Brent, Jon, Jarred, Deanan or Kelly. All of us are here to help at all costs.

Jim

Poi Boy

09-17-2007, 11:37 PM

Beautiful ! thanks.
Aloha
-A

Jason Francois

09-17-2007, 11:37 PM

There simply can't be another company that is as open as this.

I know it's been said many times before, but it just blows my mind. To me it speaks volumes as to how far this camera will eventually go....that being "all the way".

Thanks for the honesty Jim. It's really interesting to see how things are working.

Shawn Nelson

09-17-2007, 11:40 PM

Shawn... you can email/call me, or you can email/call any of the RED OPs dudes, Kevin, Zak or Sean. The next layer after that is Brent, Jon, Jarred, Deanan or Kelly. All of us are here to help at all costs.

Jim

Thanks! Will do!

I gotta tell ya Jim, it never gets old showing the footage I've shot to new people. Today I showed it to a gaffer and DP and it was just stunned silence. I showed them the crescent moon with the 300mm lens skirting the tops of the pine trees, a shot exposed for the bright blue sky that then panned into the shadows and held perfectly, all the way through, a scene illuminated by a single match...their jaws were scooped off the ground. I love it!!

Darren Orange

09-17-2007, 11:41 PM

Rock on!
As it seems mostly just simple issues with firmware. The camera hardware wise is virtually perfect. Hey, this camera is really more like a computer. You always get updates to make your computer run more stable, faster and do more things. RED ONE, is no different and perhaps thats what makes it limitless in what it can do. I can say this Debugging code, is not a whole lot a fun, and code can always be improved upon. Any thoughts on open source Jim? Maybe it has already been talked about, this could greatly improve the firmware. I have a BS in Computer Science for example. I know not anyone can work with it, and perhaps you want to keep it closed source.

Jannard

09-17-2007, 11:42 PM

Shawn, nothing makes me happier... say "hey" to Dad.

Jim

Jannard

09-17-2007, 11:44 PM

Rock,
As it seem mostly just simple issues with firmware. The camera hardware wise is virtually perfect. Hey, this camera is really more like a computer. You always get updates to make your computer run more stable, faster and do more things. RED ONE, is no different and perhaps thats what makes it limitless in what it can do. I can say this Debugging code, is not a whole lot a fun, and code can always be improved upon. Any thoughts on open source Jim? Maybe it has already been talked about, this could greatly improve the firmware. I have a BS in Computer Science for example. I know not anyone can work with it, and perhaps you want to keep it closed source.

I think closed is safer for all... :-) We have enough trouble fixing what we break, let alone what someone else does!

Jim

Greg Voevodsky

09-17-2007, 11:50 PM

Jim,

We all love and support you and the RED team...
Check out AVID & APPLE forums and I'm sure any hi-tech software company... and like you just listed... should be standard everyday... updated by a red employee... problem 107 - viewfinder - doesn't worked - fixed download 107, etc... let us know if this works... bla bla bla...

RED is doing awesome... a little more of automated and updated info in a problem/fix forum would be fine... no judgement... just here is the problem, we are working.

Amazon.com took 3 weeks to fix a major price changing problem for us sellers... but they updated me every week or so... we are working on it.. sorry for the delay and finally today, they re-listed 10 of my DVDs and I'm sure thousands of others... no problem... good job.

In Amazon's fulfillment case, you sent an email, a case file was created... and only closed when the problem is solved.. it took 4-5 emails from me over 4-6 weeks and 3-5 from them and they fixed it.. I hope RED takes a similar customer feedback approach. Your reputation will only grow.

Vladimir Eugene

09-17-2007, 11:50 PM

Error[/B]- engraving on USB port inverted.
Fix- new engraving on cameras 101+. Cameras 1-100 are collectors items with the anomoly. :-)
Jim

Looking forward to my collector's item:)

Vladimir

jbeale

09-17-2007, 11:51 PM

I can't think of any other camera company that has user forum posts actually live on their home page. Definitely a different kind of company, and thanks for making it happen.

Jannard

09-17-2007, 11:57 PM

Some companies think "you can't handle the truth"...

Jim

Finner

09-17-2007, 11:58 PM

Hi Jim

A 90 second camera boot up time seems quite long to me. Is there any chance that time will reduce with future updates?

Jarred Land

09-17-2007, 11:58 PM

im gonna make this a permanent sticky.. Jim can update as things develop.

Great idea.

Jannard

09-18-2007, 12:02 AM

Hi Jim

A 90 second camera boot up time seems quite long to me. Is there any chance that time will reduce with future updates?

I have already stated on this forum that the time will be reduced significantly...

Jim

Shawn Nelson

09-18-2007, 12:03 AM

Hi Jim

A 90 second camera boot up time seems quite long to me. Is there any chance that time will reduce with future updates?

Dude, the mini magic elves(c) need time for coffee before they get going...

Darren Orange

09-18-2007, 12:06 AM

Well, that being said the camera has a boot time etc...if the update file is a .tar file is the camera running via linux or unix. If thats the case it would seem that the camera would very rapidly become stable (firmware). After all error trapping with code is likely to take up most of the time. With a group of people using the cameras, issues that occur via firmware should be "easy" (yea i know it does depend on a lot) to fix quickly. Simpler yet if a issue is found, just simply avoid doing what would cause the problem until its fixed. People need not worry about issues, they just need to know what they are to avoid them until fixed. I think thats where people are coming from...that being said I feel that only people with cameras are on a need to know bases, but thats all Jim.

Finner

09-18-2007, 12:10 AM

I have already stated on this forum that the time will be reduced significantly...

Jim

Great

Did not see it before. There is a lot on here and I don't have that much time (A guys got to work to be able to buy all your new toys you know Jim). It is good to know though so thanks.

Michael Brennan

09-18-2007, 01:16 AM

Good work Jim and Team.
After filtering erronous bugs and false alarms from whichever list they emerge on the forum, how about a easy to read and download resource section;

1/ Number each bug (some bugs may be similar)
2/ A seperate list for camera and redcine/red alert bugs
3/ Email notification (important in first 6 months for those on the road)
4/ A list of FOE BUGs Frequent Operator Error Bugs

Mike Brennan

Júlio Taubkin

09-18-2007, 04:58 AM

That's a really cool post, Thanks for the honesty!

David Battistella

09-18-2007, 05:36 AM

This post is a fantastic idea.

Thanks for providing it and making it a sticky.

David

Andrew M.

09-18-2007, 05:37 AM

Rock on!
The camera hardware wise is virtually perfect. Hey, this camera is really more like a computer. You always get updates to make your computer run more stable, faster and do more things. RED ONE, is no different .

Yes, it is like computer.
Maybe the updates for the camera should be automatic using updater.
Once you start REDCINE it connects to RED update server (like most software does these days) and checks the first for any update to REDCINE as compare to your current version of REDCINE and last version of firmware recorded when camera was uploading data to REDCINE, will ask you to confirm your firmware version and will check again during firmware upload process to make sure that camera is what REDCINE things it is.

Then the updater checks for any update to the camera firmware as oppose to the update of the REDCINE software, will ask you if you want to download update.
Next it will ask you if you want to install REDCINE update.
Subsequently it will ask you if you want to upload firmware update to the camera, if yes then follow the steps provided:
1) Firmware upgrade via CF card
2) Firmware upgrade via USB port
3) Power ON camera, do not switch off…..
4) Etc..
5) Etc..

All this is a standard updater software that is part of developer API

Andrew

Leo Ticheli

09-18-2007, 07:33 AM

Avid revolutionized the way we edit, but they did one thing that impressed me quite as much; with each new software release they included a booklet of known bugs and work-arounds.

While other companies practiced willful deception and denial, Avid was forthright; I found another editing company, based in the UK, to conduct themselves quite the opposite. I'll never buy anything from them again.

We no longer use Avid, having moved on to Apple, but I still remember those booklets; knowing a problem is a bug saves countless hours of frustration.

I applaud RED's posting of known bugs and the fixes; this is exactly what RED needs to do. A policy of keeping problems hidden is ruinous.

We all greatly appreciate the tireless efforts of early camera holders to share their experiences with us and hope they will continue to do so, revealing the good along with the problems. Honesty is the key to any successful relationship; you know, the "truth, whole truth, and nothing but the truth," thing.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

miles

09-18-2007, 07:45 AM

I would suggest a bugzilla-kind of backend, with a more user-friendly and more Red-related front. Duplicate bug reports could get redirected etc., developers in the house would have a public or semi-public bug system etc. I guess this would be the first corporation to have a public bug reporting site. But then again, Red is something special.

Paul Wizikowski

09-18-2007, 08:53 AM

love the openess of this thread...and that its a sticky.

Could we now delete all posts in here other than the bugs and fixes/workarounds posted by RED. Its annoying sifting through the "this is great" comments to get to the pertinent info.

Justin Kirchhoff

09-18-2007, 09:03 AM

Jim, amazing process you have to making this dream of yours become more and more significant. You and the RED team have the right idea about improving the camera and company by keeping it very honest and open.

I'm telling you man, every day I'm getting more and more excited because my camera is getting closer to shipping. In 3 months time, I'll have what I've been wanting my whole life....a camera that does the job right.

Justin Kirchhoff

09-18-2007, 09:04 AM

I forgot to add that with the new addition of engraving on the cameras 101 and above, all of us are ecstastic!

jbeale

09-18-2007, 10:11 AM

I forgot to add that with the new addition of engraving on the cameras 101 and above, all of us are ecstastic!
My reading of http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=86182&postcount=1
was simply that the USB port logo engraving was upside-down and now it's corrected. Not that there was any policy change about personalized engraving (unless you've received different info elsewhere.)

REDHKSC

09-18-2007, 10:33 AM

Tell the truth
RED is RED like Black is Black and White is white

It's simple that no other Mixed Colors.

RED means " GET OVER IT "

Thanks Jim to alert us.

Cheers,
STEWART

Ramesh Jai

09-18-2007, 12:04 PM

Tell the truth
RED is RED like Black is Black and White is white

It's simple that no other Mixed Colors.

RED means " GET OVER IT "

Thanks Jim to alert us.

Cheers,
STEWART
You always 'speak' in such an interesting language...

Matt Sconce

09-18-2007, 12:22 PM

I am loving RED and will be using it on our 500k feature coming up. The company is amazing and the camera promises to follow suit. We will buy one after the film. Thank you Jim for your openess and amazing camera.

GlennChan

09-18-2007, 01:27 PM

Maybe the updates for the camera should be automatic using updater.
IMO this isn't necessarily a good thing. Sometimes an update will break your system (e.g. Final Cut + Quicktime). That's not necessarily what you want in the middle of a production. (Of course if it is easy to go back to an older firmware then that's not that big a problem. But nasty surprises are no fun.)

Plus, I don't think there is too much time wasted doing things manually.

Those are my thoughts anyways.

Adrian T.

09-18-2007, 01:46 PM

IMO this isn't necessarily a good thing. Sometimes an update will break your system (e.g. Final Cut + Quicktime). That's not necessarily what you want in the middle of a production. (Of course if it is easy to go back to an older firmware then that's not that big a problem. But nasty surprises are no fun.)

I second that. Never change a running system! Do your updates between the productions. Only exception: if you really have a problem which could be fixed by updating the firmware.

tj williams

09-18-2007, 11:12 PM

Is a bug list published on the internet an industry first for electronic cameras.... went looking and can't find one for Sony Panasonic Dalsa, Si, Arriflex or Panavision????

Michael Brennan

09-19-2007, 01:01 AM

Is a bug list published on the internet an industry first for electronic cameras.... went looking and can't find one for Sony Panasonic Dalsa, Si, Arriflex or Panavision????

Here is the Sony engineeer support site, enter a product number ie f900 in the search box... http://support.sonybiz.net/search.aspx

This site was once only used by engineers, but after numerous complaints with the f900 Sony made it avaailable and user friendly for the end user.

Note that it only includes fixes (for the things Sony can or want to fix)
It does report faults as they are reported.

I reported some of the f900 faults, some of which then took two years to end up on the list!
Sony management missed the point that shots on expensive productions were being lost due to their "failure to communicate"

If you study camcorders you'll see that the first 6-12 months of a camcorders life that is the busy period for tech reports.
The exception is the f900 which they didn't sell many of so they didnt get the feedback due to relativly low useage compared to their previous camcorders.

Some service centers failed to communicate these faults to the end user due to a pricing agreement about servicing between agents and Sony that encouraged agents not to report "minor" faults to customers.

Mike Brennan

Daniel Reichenbach

09-19-2007, 11:06 PM

LighthouseMEdia

09-19-2007, 11:26 PM

JIM.
This is EXACTLY what I was looking for BEAUTIFUL!!!!!! JUST BEAUTIFUL!!!!

Michael Brennan

09-20-2007, 12:39 AM

Just a suggestion for this BUG and FIXES: Wouldn't it make more sense, that just Jim can write inside this thread? I don't like to read me troughthough tons of replies until I find a new BUG-FIX-MESSAGE from Jim.

In a years time there is likely to be a couple of thousand DPs and post guys who want to quickly access the list of bugs and fixes.

Joining/entering a forum and finding a thread is more time consuming and complicated than a entering a URL.
A non password protected URL is easier to access and upload to a mobile PDA.

A resource page could also have links and pdfs of manuals ect.
Can keep the dialogue going on the forum of course as if anyone could stop it:)

Mike Brennan

Mardi_Gras

09-20-2007, 12:48 AM

Tell the truth
RED is RED like Black is Black and White is white

It's simple that no other Mixed Colors.

RED means " GET OVER IT "

Thanks Jim to alert us.

Cheers,
STEWART

Stewart-speak always saves the day. Very nice!

Mardi_Gras

09-20-2007, 12:51 AM

Jim,

Besides creating an awesome piece of gadget, your business model is quite simply, untouchable... in a class by itself. I mean, it's something that an MBA class can greatly benefit from. I just keep loving it!

Poi Boy

09-20-2007, 12:59 AM

Stacey Spears

09-20-2007, 07:31 AM

Another option is using something like a bugzilla database that owners can file bugs into. Jim, and co, could use a locked thread to post fixed bugs in.

Paul Leeming

09-21-2007, 10:44 AM

Or Jim could simply edit the first post in the thread each time a new firmware update comes out, which is, I suspect, the plan. All subsequent posts like this one are merely commenting on the latest firmware as posted in post #1, so going first post then latest page or two should suffice to check out real world user experiences of the latest firmware (including Jim with his cameras if he wants to post independently of his first bug-list post).

Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock

09-24-2007, 08:21 AM

The post´s in this tread are mostly about this thread itself.

As soon as we have a real buglist, (and enough cameras out there) there should be a dedicated sticky (maybe with write privileges only for the moderators) .... ( and Jim).

As Jarred made clear, bug reporting is better done by direct mail to RED.

Things will get confusing enough with different firmwares and hw combinations out there.

I´m sure we will all like a condensed and precise "Don´t"-list.

Jochen

Jannard

09-24-2007, 09:55 PM

BUG- In our 9/23/07 build, the fans would not lower RPM during record.
A new build 9/25/07 fixes this issue.

Jim

Mathieu Ghekiere

09-25-2007, 03:29 AM

BUG- In our 9/23/07 build, the fans would not lower RPM during record.
A new build 9/25/07 fixes this issue.

Jim

Jim, couldn't you always with a new bug, just update the original post in this thread, and make it a sticky?
And next to every bug you just place 'FIXED' or something, so people just have to read the beginning of the thread to see what's up, instead of going trough all the pages... ?

Thanks,

Evan Owen

09-25-2007, 06:27 AM

zak forrest

09-25-2007, 09:23 AM

Jim, couldn't you always with a new bug, just update the original post in this thread, and make it a sticky?
And next to every bug you just place 'FIXED' or something, so people just have to read the beginning of the thread to see what's up, instead of going trough all the pages... ?

Thanks,

great idea, but everyone here should be doing what i do, which is bookmark this address

http://www.reduser.net/forum/member.php?u=9

and click "find more posts by this user"

what else is worth reading anyways =]