Canon users. . . avoid the 135mm f2.0 EF L-Series USM lens.

[Stephen Pruitt]

Hi all. . .

I bought this lens, not once, but twice. Both were identical with respect to the issue I was having: The image shifts markedly side-to-side as you pull focus back and forth. I mean, it's really obvious and renders the lens unusable for cine use.

Thinking I really wanted to buy this lens due to its focal length and bokeh (which is pretty glorious), I did. But the image shift issue really kept me from using it much, so I sent it in to Canon service to see if they could make it any better. Alas, they could not. It is a clear design flaw of some sort.

That lens is now going out on Ebay.

I strongly recommend you avoid this lens. Interestingly, the 200mm f2.8 L-Series USM and the 100mm macro L-Series f2.8 USM have zero image shift issues. They are both superb lenses in just about all respects.

Stephen

[Zul, Y]

Do you have a video of the image shift?

[Paul Leeming]

There is a rumour this lens will be updated soon. With Canon making a play for the video market, I think you will see a bunch of new lens revisions with more stable focusing for video use. This may be one of them (along with IS).

Cheers,

Paul

[KETCH ROSSi]

Interesting find Stephen, even so the 135 is no doubt one of the most popular and appreciated lens amongst photographers of all trades, both for its image quality and extreme sharpness, in fact it is if not the sharpest Canon lens, definitely amongst the sharpest, and have owned several thru the years, all of equally stellar performance, however, I never used for Motion capture.

[Stephen Pruitt]

No question it's a gorgeous lens, and if I had a still camera, I'd keep it. But I don't, so I'm selling mine this week.

The image shift is really offensive, though. It's totally unusable in any situation where you would need to go back and forth. You can play with it if you are only going one way (from Point A to Point B OR from Point B to Point A), but not if you are going two ways (from Point A to Point B and then back to Point A).

Maybe, as Paul says, they'll fix it.

On the other hand, I can't speak highly enough about the incredible and relatively inexpensive 100mm Macro f2.8 USM L-Series. That is one killer lens for the money! Works just great with the Birger.

Stephen

[Matthew Duclos]

A new revision of this lens will not solve the image shift. If anything, it will get worse. Canon isn't concerned with making good motion picture optics, they are concerned with making a fast focusing tele prime. This means lighter components and lower tolerances in order to get that focus group to move as fast as it can with the little tiny motor. This is the biggest differene between still and motion glass. This is why Red makes very nice cine primes. The trick is to find that happy medium between still and motion lenses.

[Vico Martin]

good to know,
thanks Stephen.

[Michael Hastings]

Canon isn't concerned with making good motion picture optics, they are concerned with making a fast focusing tele prime.

While this is in general true, to be fair, it is likely to change somewhat moving forward as there are now hundreds of thousands of HD video enabled canon dslrs in use.

There are already rumors of cine oriented ef lenses in development. And iirc canon has made some pretty good dedicated cine glass in the past and makes some pretty good video zooms.

[Steve Das]

While this is in general true, to be fair, it is likely to change somewhat moving forward as there are now hundreds of thousands of HD video enabled canon dslrs in use.


Yes..clearly there will be a market going forward for FF35 glass that
one can pull focus on. Surprised that so far the only player to
enter it has been Zeiss with the CP lenses..and they are already
on the second version before anyone else has even had a first out.

[Michael Hastings]

Yes..clearly there will be a market going forward for FF35 glass that
one can pull focus on. Surprised that so far the only player to
enter it has been Zeiss with the CP lenses..and they are already
on the second version before anyone else has even had a first out.

Well, they are based on the old contax yashica designs so they had a head start.

[OptiTek]

Surprised that so far the only player to
enter it has been Zeiss with the CP lenses..and they are already
on the second version before anyone else has even had a first out.
Leica certainly f-d up- they priced themselves way out of the range with the new cine primes and there is no way they'd enter the lower end VDSLR market segment and cannibalize their $15-20K/prime sets so early in the game..
and they already have FF glass- they could just do the same as Zeiss..
pity...

[Stephen Pruitt]

Well, I don't know about all of the Canon lenses, but all of the rest of our lenses are very solid when pulling focus with the Birger. There is definitely a little breathing here and there, but in some cases I actually like the slight emphasis that a little breathing imparts.

No question, our going with Canon was a compromise, but we think it was a very good one. Except for our two f2.8s (16-35mm zoom and the 200mm prime), these things are blindingly fast (either f1.2 or f1.4) and look amazing. And, with the Birger, we have wireless focus control!

Stephen

[Steve Das]

Leica certainly f-d up- they priced themselves way out of the range with the new cine primes and there is no way they'd enter the lower end VDSLR market segment and cannibalize their $15-20K/prime sets so early in the game..


Red proved there is a market out there for people wanting to do
away with rental hassles and own their own gear. And if you price
it right you can expand the market and make good money on the
volume.

Seems like with the HDSLR market explosion the first quality name
company that can come out with some focusable FF35 primes in the
price range of say $10-17K would really make out.

Zeiss messed up even Ver.2 with f-stops that aren't constant and priced
exactly at Red Pro Primes level.

[Charles Angus]

Leica certainly f-d up- they priced themselves way out of the range with the new cine primes and there is no way they'd enter the lower end VDSLR market segment and cannibalize their $15-20K/prime sets so early in the game..
and they already have FF glass- they could just do the same as Zeiss..
pity...

I haven't tried the new Leica primes, but from everything I've heard they're pretty much the perfect lens - small, light, fast, sharp.

I don't see how that could be called an f-up.

That's like saying a Ferrari is an f-up - sure, I can't afford it, but it's still a fantastic automobile.

[Michael Hastings]

There is definitely a little breathing here and there, but in some cases I actually like the slight emphasis that a little breathing imparts.

Stephen

According to David Mullen there are a few camera moves and VFX shots that get messed up with breathing - but otherwise I think focus breathing is a vastly overblown issue.

[OptiTek]

I haven't tried the new Leica primes, but from everything I've heard they're pretty much the perfect lens - small, light, fast, sharp.

I don't see how that could be called an f-up.

That's like saying a Ferrari is an f-up - sure, I can't afford it, but it's still a fantastic automobile.
Ferrari, my friend, wouldn't even exist today if it wasn't for Fiat. Neither would Maserati, Lamborghini(Audi/VW), Porsche(VW), Aston Martin(Ford). Leica would never made these lenses if it weren't for BandPro.
The point is that these cars serve as billboards for their respective parent companies. Leica is competing with the likes of Zeiss(3 lines of products!), Cooke(2 lines) well established reliable players.
Then there are less expensive alternatives Schneider, RED, UO, Cooke Panchro.
Make no mistake-the cheaper offerings will take a bite of the higher end market as well- they all are very good.
The cine primes field got really crowded all of the sudden. Great for buyers, not so great for the manufacturers. And the new Leicas don't cover full frame which seems a big deal today...
Only time will tell, but I think they would have a great success with more economical rehousing of the FF glass. More of a Toyota than Ferrari aproach but look who's the biggest car company in the US today- doubt it's Ferrari:laugh:

[paul engstrom]

Hey Steve,

Which of the 85 lenses and 50 lenses are you using? How are their breathing and focus shifts?

[Joel Kaye]

Canon isn't concerned with making good motion picture optics

They do have a line of very expensive ENG optics, right? I'm pretty sure NBC news has a custom Canon lens shooting Brian Williams every night 'cause I saw it.

Regarding DLSR lenses.. well that might have been true yesterday, but I doubt it's true tomorrow. They are getting an earful from Hollywood right now.

I've had very good luck shooting Canon's with a Birger mount and Impero FF for over a year now. Very smooth racks with no image shift. Little lenses with motors in them is the future IMHO. That enables facial recognition focus. Pretty sure RED is making their own like that.

(I'm EPIC stage 2 and will be using my Canons)

[Stephen Pruitt]

Hey there, Paul. . .

I'm using the 50mm f1.2 L and the 85mm f1.2 L II. They both yield positively gorgeous images. The 50 has a very slight image shift left-to-right or right-to-left but you have to look hard for it to see it. I don't notice it on sticks, and even the most discerning eye looking for it would never, ever see it on hand-held. No shift at all with the 85. Both lenses to breath a small amount, but again, I don't find that offensive, and sometimes actually even like it.

Stephen

[Jay Gannon]

Zeiss messed up even Ver.2 with f-stops that aren't constant and priced
exactly at Red Pro Primes level.

Majorly, I would prefer a HotRod 7D with a RPP set over a 5d and a CP.2 set any day. At roughly the same cost.

[Joel Kaye]

Both lenses to breath a small amount, but again, I don't find that offensive, and sometimes actually even like it.

And if you put on a Ultraprime 50mm or 85mm there's way more breathing that these Canons. I agree with others that say breathing is overblown as an issue. There's some pretty heavy breathing on anamorphic lenses that so many people love.

Sometimes a very breathless rack focus is actually disorienting whereas a breathing lens cues the viewer that focus is shifting.

I think people always need to remember most of this stuff like what Bokeh is better etc. is just someone's opinion. It's not like there's really "right" and "right" costs $20k more. That is marketing.

[paul engstrom]

Hey there, Paul. . .

I'm using the 50mm f1.2 L and the 85mm f1.2 L II. They both yield positively gorgeous images. The 50 has a very slight image shift left-to-right or right-to-left but you have to look hard for it to see it. I don't notice it on sticks, and even the most discerning eye looking for it would never, ever see it on hand-held. No shift at all with the 85. Both lenses to breath a small amount, but again, I don't find that offensive, and sometimes actually even like it.

Stephen

That's great; I thought I read somewhere the 85 II had image shift. Which stinks because the lens is fantastic. Glad you've found different; I'll follow this up.

As to the larger discussion -- The Birger control with Canon glass has been awesome. I've really enjoyed being able to re-map the lens throw based on my focus needs from 720 degrees to something like 50 degrees deep to shallow.

I'm very curious to see what RED has for us and WHEN RED has for us Canon control.