New Cooke Panchros anybody?

[Paul Nordin]

As far as I can figure out, only one set of the new Cooke Panchros has made it's way to the West Coast so far. Just wondered if anyone has had a chance to work with or evaluate them yet?

[Oliver Schietinger]

Don't know if itll help you but we have a set on the East Coast, at TCS. Fortunately, they've been busy - almost immediately - and that means unfortunately, I don't have a lot of information to share beyond what you already know.

[Kip Kubin]

Hi Just shot Amy Grant's new music video with them and a Red 17-50.

AC Inc in Nashville has a set for rent.... also no help to those on the west coast.

Build quality is immaculate and beefy image is Cooke at it's best... nicely sharp with slightly more warmth than Red or Zeiss lenses but not nearly the color shift of the old Panchros.

We shot a little under a 4 if I remember but we did test some wide open shots and they are extremely sharp and I'd have no fear if I had to shoot wide open with them.

[Ryan Hamblin]

I was operating on the Amy Grant video, I felt like the mechanics were a little loose for my liking. They were great to work with, but beefy is the right word...Not light lenses. Optically great...cooke look right out the gate, good wide open. If you gotta get some cookes and you don't have s4/s5 money, I say go for it.

I am going to put my biased opinion in and say, the RED 17-50 is really a force to be reckoned with. Just ever so slightly sharper than the cookes, not quite the contrast...but honestly barely indistinguishable from the cookes...and its a zoom

[Paul Nordin]

Hi Just shot Amy Grant's new music video with them and a Red 17-50.*.
Great info, Thanks! How is the flare and bocah, consistent with S4?

[Sidney L. Plaut]

how do the 17-50 and the pancros perform wide open?

oh Kip answered...

[Ryan Hamblin]

Yes kip answered but I will second, they both look amazingly well wide open. Kudos to the designers of both lenses.

I will say I wish the 17-50 had more iris blades, I don't like the look of it at around an 8...lucky for me I never shoot at an 8. I don't remember the look of the iris in the cookes, but I am sure its quite a few more blades

[Kip Kubin]

Didn't have the time for flair tests...getting a flair... but no flair problems all day without a matte box.

[Trevor Emmerson]

the panchros have an 8 blade iris design according to the specs. likely the same as in the s4's as all their modern sets are supposed to match in look [though the s5's are apparently using 7 blades so not sure what the deal is with that]
so far as sharpness goes, and i wish i understood more about glass that this was not guessing, could it be that the unique focus falloff of the cookes gives the perception of a softer look than the red zoom. being as differences in actual sharpness, at centre at least, in all recent glass is significantly beyond the resolving power of digital sensors or film to measure.
i would be interested to know if that is the case or not.
and please, keep the info on these panchros coming they look like a great option and i've found almost nothing said of them so far anywhere

[Jordan12]

Hey everybody!

Just got a delivery of the new Panchros! We are heading off to do some testing! I will report back and post the results.

Jordan

[MichaelHalsell]

Jordon we will be looking forward to your assessments. Thank you. Which focal lengths did you receive?

[NormLi]

Great,looking forward to this. I think with T2.8, it's no longer an issue with an MX sensor.

Norm

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

I bought a set and they are quite amazing. I used to own/shoot with manual Nikon prime lenses if/when I didn't rent professional cinema lenses from a camera house... I didn't think I'd notice a difference so immediately, but even on the Red monitor, I did.
The difference seems to just ring when I double in to check critical focus. The image is crisp and clear... doesn't really feel like doubled in! The look, feel, and quality is pretty great. I'm going to do some tests as soon as I finish a commercial shoot I'm DPing tomorrow and Wednesday with them. I'd love to post 4k still images of the results!

[Erich Ocean]

I've got the Cooke Panchro/i 32mm (only) and its very sharp wide open and looks, to my eyes, like an S4. I love it. The focus falloff is awesome. I recently got the Hod Rod PL mount adaptor for a GH13 I picked up and the image quality is just insane for a $650 body. :-)

Bottom line: quality glass makes all the difference.

[Benjamin Rowland]

Anymore feedback on these lenses?

[Robert Horwell]

I received my set of Panchros last week. They are wonderful lenses. Typical cooke build, very usable wide open. Typical cooke fall off. I already have a set of the Original panchros, and a set of S4's coming next week, at some point i'll shoot some comparison footage with all 3 sets and post.

[Benjamin Rowland]

I received my set of Panchros last week. They are wonderful lenses. Typical cooke build, very usable wide open. Typical cooke fall off. I already have a set of the Original panchros, and a set of S4's coming next week, at some point i'll shoot some comparison footage with all 3 sets and post.

Thanks, Robert. Looking forward to see your tests.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Any more info, images, links, etc???

Anyone know how long the current wait is to get a set of these if they ordered today? I suppose I could ask ZGC and see what they say.

[Robert Horwell]

Definitely call them Jeff. The 18mm starts shipping early next year.

[MP&E Equipment Rental]

Any more info, images, links, etc???

Anyone know how long the current wait is to get a set of these if they ordered today? I suppose I could ask ZGC and see what they say.

We received our Cooke Panchros today after only being ordered about two weeks ago. We also ordered at the same time a set of Cooke S4/is and they are due to arrive at the end of February. In contrast the S5/is were going to be about NAB timeframe.

I thought I would take a quick pic of the 25mm Panchro next to a 25mm Zeiss CP2, 25mm RPP and a 25mm Zeiss Master Prime for a size comparison. Please note that the 100mm Panchro is about an inch longer than this 25mm. We think these Panchros will be very popular with all of the PL mount cameras that are finally coming out. Thanks to RED for pushing the envelope!

We are very pleased with the look/performance and build quality of these lenses.

Cheers!
Bryan Mayo

[MichaelHalsell]

Bryan, at your leisure, could you post shot(s) with flesh tone and flare management with the New Cooke Panchros? Thanks.

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

I just got my Cooke Panchro/i 18mm today! Very excited. I'll be testing it out tomorrow, I'll be sure to try and post something here. It won't be a technical test of any means, but I'll post the lens data and the camera settings on a RedOneMX.

The build quality and size is just like the others, simply top shelf.

[Robert Horwell]

Ryan

could you post a pic of the 18mm please? Looking forward to hearing how she looks.

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

I just set up a RedOne pointed outside my front door and rotated out the prime lenses. Using photoshop I did a cool little FoV chart using the images from the other focal lengths.

The overall image is from the new 18mm prime lens. This picture represents the Red 4k 16:9 Fov but not the full resolution and it has been compressed from a png to jpg, so don't pixel peep. :)

Here it is!

-Ryan


http://www.RyanPatrickOHara.com/Cooke Panchro FoV.jpg

[albert rudnicki]

thanks for sharing.
With no doubt it's a cooke lens we have got accustom to.
Congratulations on the set.

been looking at them my self, but since I have sold my cooke zoom, I will go the zeiss route.

[Antoine Fabi]

Hey Albert!

Going the Zeiss route ?????

Why ? Which series ?

Just curious

Antoine

[albert rudnicki]

Hi Antoine
I am probably getting the Lightweight Zoom LWZ.2 and few compact primes. Most likely: 50, 85 and 100

I want to stay flexible with mounts.
Cp2 are great and since I am really used to zf lenses I know how to get the best of them.

I am going to NAB this year and will take a look at some other options, but so far my mind is set.

Cookes are great thought...but too expensive and too slow for a personal use.

[Antoine Fabi]

Hi Albert,

Good choice i think, lightweight and full frame. (not the zoom though, i think...)

I'm thinking going from nikon mount to PL.

I would like to get old Canon K35s, but the price is too high for used lenses :)

The Cookes...look super... but as you say...too expensive.

Cheers

Antoine

[David Collard]

I'm surprised nobody talks about the Unique Optics primes.
Very good lens optically, tracking, focus, build, pricing.

[Kip Kubin]

Thank you Ryan for taking the time to post the picts.

When I rented the new Panchros for my shoot I didn't have enough time to test all focal lengths.

http://monofi.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/ag-cooke-1.jpg

Here's a grab from our work on Amy Grant's latest music video "Better Than A Hallelujah"

New Cooke Panchro 32mm T4 - grab made with old version of RedcineX and no color correction... blacks crushed a bit


A note about the speed...

My opinion is that 2.8 isn't a slow lens..there are faster out there yes..but at 2.8 it's extremely sharp.. no need to stop down in order to get an acceptable image...it's starts acceptable and gets sharper as you stop down.

Remember "Taking of Pelam 123" original was shot on Ana's (T3-ish) on 100 speed film with some flashed mags taking them to 200 mostly natural light and mostly in the subway.

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

Cooke S4/i, CXX, and Panchro/i compared.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?234707-Cookies-Cookie-Cook-and-Cooke.

[Paul Leeming]

Cooke S4/i, CXX, and Panchro/i compared.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?234707-Cookies-Cookie-Cook-and-Cooke.
Great test Ryan, thanks for sharing!

Cheers from Tokyo,

Paul :)

[Robin Horn]

I was thinking of buying the Angenieux Rouge 16 - 42, with a 75mm & 100m Cooke Panchro to make a set. Will these lenses colour match and have similar sharpness and contrast? Would this make a god set or am I better off sticking with a set of Panchros or the 2 Rouge zooms and not mixing them together?

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

Many of the big productions who have shot w/ Cooke S4's have used Angenieux Optimo's in tandem with the lenses. Angenieux has been described as being between Cooke and Zeiss in regards to color rendition. Obviously this has been met with success, but I do not know if they had to compensate or by how much, if so. Similarily, I don't know how much the DP 'rouge' series stacks up to the original Optimo's but I've heard well.

So without doing any testing, I'd say there is a good chance that would work, however you would be very best to test yourself. I have yet to shoot on the new DP series optimo. My only experience has been on the 24-290 Optimo.

I can tell you that these lenses won't be as matched as either going full Panchro/i set or an Angeniuex DP set. It's simply a matter if you can get away with it easily or not.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Any differences in color rendition will be very minor and easy to correct with a basic first pass in coloring. The Rouge lenses are awesome. I owned both the 16-42 and 30-80 briefly, but couldn't justify keeping them. I often wish I still had them. Depending on your usage, that 16-42 plus the couple primes may be a good solution. I would think another powerful option (but more money) would be both Rouge zooms plus a 100mm RPP or 100mm Panchro.

I finally got to see the new Cooke Panchros the other day. Didn't really get to play with them much as I was helping the DP and AC prep two REDs and some gear before a shoot. The little bit that was shot looked great. The 50mm is tack sharp wide open at T2.8. Overall the Panchros look like very nice lenses. Just based on what I have seen so far, I feel confident saying that I would buy the new Panchros before I would buy the Zeiss CP2's. ...They didn't have the 18mm, just the 25 and up.

[Benjamin Rowland]

... Just based on what I have seen so far, I feel confident saying that I would buy the new Panchros before I would buy the Zeiss CP2's. ...

Could you elaborate on this? Thanks!

[Tom.Wong]

panchros are cooke optics based on s4's... they have the name, the proven quality and reputation. people love the cook look, and they also have uncompromised mechanics.

cp2's, unmatched speed and look, still rehoused still glass in the end, breathing, fine focus isn't as good, very sharp but doesn't have any kind of look that makes it stand out. Cooke is famous for their look, and the panchros though slower match s4's almost perfectly...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Tom sums it up well, although the CP.2's do have a few advantages. To call them re-housed still lenses is not fair, they are their own mechanical design and are rather well made. They do share the same optical elements used in the ZE/ZF stills lenses. They look and breathe just like the Zeiss still lenses, of which I am not a fan of that look, some people are. The newer 50mm macro and 100mm CF are nice additions to the range of lenses. They cover FF35 and have the ability to change the mounts -- done in a proper setting by a technician, not something you would do in the field.

Personally, I just prefer the look produced by the Cooke lenses. They are all tack sharp when shot wide open and most of the time you will not need anything more than T2.8. At least not in a narrative setting where lighting is controlled.

No matter how much I try, I just can't like the 18mm and 25mm Zeiss primes. Sorry to say it, but I'm not the least bit impressed with the performance of their 18mm. And the F3.5 aperture is only one variable in the equation.

I'm really thinking about buying the Panchros myself, but it may not be in the cards. I would have to sell my RPP's to do it... I really like the RPP's. The 18, 25 and 35 are big and heavy, but that's really their only issue. Nice lenses. Biggest complaint from other ACs I hear about them is the lack of marks on the lenses... It bothers some, but not others and not me. I depend on marks I make on my FF wheel, not on the lens itself. If I want focus marks on the lens, I mark what I need with grease pencil or tape it and mark with a sharpie.

[David Collard]

Duclos is offering a service that adds additional marks to the Red primes. It does not void the Red warranty, I believe.

It really surprises me that everyone keeps talking about the usual suspects.
If you are looking for a great 18mm or 25mm prime, check out the Unique Optics.

[Christopher Barrett]

A little OT. The Panchros are on order, but I'm not going with their case. I would never ship these and may do a Pelican Roll-a-board to keep 'em with me on the plane. I use two of these now for my still cameras/lenses. If anyone else has other suggestions for a case, I'd love to hear 'em.

Thanks,
CB

[Trevor Emmerson]

Congrats on your purchase Christopher, i am literally dying with envy :) look forward to hearing how they go. Out of interest, how long does one have to wait for a set to ship once the cash is down? I assume everything from Cooke is made to order.. 6 weeks?

[Christopher Barrett]

I just got a voicemail from ZGC a couple minutes ago. 2 weeks from Cooke to them and then on to me after a Quality Control check.

Psyched!

[Trevor Emmerson]

awesome

[AnthonyFlores]

Great thread guys. I'm very interested to hear the experiences ... these are more in my "current" price range than the S4's or 5i's and I do happen to love the "Cooke look" especially because it seems to me (subjectively) to give digital more of that filmic feeling.

However, I'm most likely going to put my current lens budget toward the Leica S lenses, since I will be getting an S2P body before the end of the month. Granted, there are some limitations -- no focus markings being the biggest one, as well as the degrees of rotation. Also focal length availability at the moment kinda sucks -- they currently just have a 35, 70, 120 and 180 ... with the 24 coming as well as a zoom and a possible super fast 100. Hopefully a 50 as well.

However, the optical quality is astonishing, some say the best still lenses ever produced. I hear that Leica designed them to resolve all the detail inherent in sensors even beyond their current 37MP "S" Body ... and they cover beyond full frame. They will also be able to take advantage of the autofocus feature of the Epic, and for me that's a plus, since I won't be working with actors and focus marks all that much for now. Mostly models speaking into the camera, interviews, documentary-style stuff, etc.

Pricewise, they are about the same as the Panchros ... some focal lengths a little less, some a little more ... and I could easily see myself building a Leica "S" set of 24, 35, 50, 70, and then 100 or 120. And it would go on my S35 Epic as well as the FF version in 2012.

In a perfect world I would have these for still work and for when I wanted autofocus on the Epic ... and then the Cooke 5i or Leica C series for more hardcore narrative work. However, if budget didn't allow for that and I found myself in dire need of true cine lenses ... I would still very much consider the Cooke Panchros.

Sorry for the rambling, still very much looking forward to hearing more about these :)

Anthony

[AnthonyFlores]

I just got a voicemail from ZGC a couple minutes ago. 2 weeks from Cooke to them and then on to me after a Quality Control check.

Psyched!

Congrats!! But damn, we have to wait 2-3 weeks for your thoughts on them???? :-(

[Christopher Barrett]

I am going to be so antsy! And man, if you can get one set of lenses to work for your still AND motion work that will be the shit.

I would LOVE that... however this is my still camera (http://christopherbarrett.net/blog/?p=1350).

I fantasize about an Epic only kit, using Canon TS-E's for architecture... but I'm not even happy with the 5d2 quality on stills. Then again....HDRx stills....mmmm.

[AnthonyFlores]

I am going to be so antsy! And man, if you can get one set of lenses to work for your still AND motion work that will be the shit.

I would LOVE that... however this is my still camera (http://christopherbarrett.net/blog/?p=1350).

I fantasize about an Epic only kit, using Canon TS-E's for architecture... but I'm not even happy with the 5d2 quality on stills. Then again....HDRx™ stills....mmmm.

Yes, I hope to be one of the first "testers" of S lenses on the Epic and will definitely let everyone know my experience. Just hoping the mount will be ready at release :)

Interesting camera! I must admit I know nothing about "tech" cameras ... but find it interesting because the name sounds futuristic but the cameras look so retro in design to me. I didn't even recognize it as a "camera" at first. Very cool.

Chris which camera are you going to be primarily using the Panchros with?

[Christopher Barrett]

Yeah, when I'm out in the field, people are like "that's a... camera?" Heh. Really only useful for Architecture and Landscapes.

The Panchros will go on the R1. I've only had that since October, so I'll prolly put off an Epic purchase till late 2011... you know, once the wallets recovered :)

[Benjamin Rowland]

The Panchros look like some great lenses. There really is a "Cooke Look."

My wife was watching "Pride and Prejudice" with Keira Knightley and I caught part of it and was admiring the cinematography and thought to myself... "I bet this was shot with Cooke lenses." It had that look. Turns out they used S4's.

The Cookes produce a really pretty image and that really is the most important aspect of a lens. Enjoy those lenses and post some footage when you get the time.

[Jeremy Benning]

Hey Paul,

I just posted a big reply to the "Optimus Prime" thread about the Cookes here. I had set #1 of Panrchos and have been working with Cooke on them pretty closely.

Cooke also posted this recently:

http://www.cookeoptics.com/cooke.nsf/experience/testimonials.html

I hope it helps!

jeremy benning, csc

--


www.jeremybenning.com

[Paul Leeming]

Jeremy, great testimonial! So true about narrative mostly shooting T2.8 or smaller. I think these may be just the right balance between quality and affordability :)

I'm really hoping they will cover Epic's 5K sensor....

Cheers,

Paul

[Tom.Wong]

http://www.cookeoptics.com/cooke.nsf/products/panchro_specs.html

maximum format cover 33.54 mm

typically just about every modern lens will cover 5k.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

With RED's 5K being 1.89:1 aspect, the image circle is not as big as people want to think. Anything over a 31mm image circle should do it in most cases. As always, it's best to test and see for sure.

[C.H.Haskell]

Hey Paul,

I just posted a big reply to the "Optimus Prime" thread about the Cookes here. I had set #1 of Panrchos and have been working with Cooke on them pretty closely.

Cooke also posted this recently:

http://www.cookeoptics.com/cooke.nsf/experience/testimonials.html

I hope it helps!

jeremy benning, csc

--


www.jeremybenning.com

Hello Jeremy, bravo on the feature...would love to see some stills or trailer so keep us updated. Thanks for sharing.

[Timur Civan]

Just got a set of Panchros, and a Varotal 18-100 T3.

Gorgeous, gorgeous lenses. The image is stunning. Got to test the 18-100 on a MX for checkout before purchase. Simple wonderful piece of glass.

Been testing the iPanchros on my F3. Stunning is the only word that describes the look.

[Robert Horwell]

Absolutely agree...stunning.

I try to get mine on every job, just love working with them. don't you love the form factor as well? they will be wonderful on the Epic.

[Sven Seynaeve]

Could someone provide some footage please, i'm considering them but like to see something...

[Timur Civan]

Absolutely agree...stunning.

I try to get mine on every job, just love working with them. don't you love the form factor as well? they will be wonderful on the Epic.

The size and weight is such a pleasure.

[Timur Civan]

Could someone provide some footage please, i'm considering them but like to see something...

Look at anything shot on S4's. they look exactly like that, they are designed to cut with S4's interms of sharpness and color and contrast.

Pretend they are S4's that are stuck at a T2.8.

[Rick Darge]

How much does a set cost?

[Timur Civan]

well, it depends on if you get the 18mm or not.

The standard 5 lens set 25mm, 32mm, 50mm, 75mm, 100mm runs $33,600.

I got the 18mm as well, but its currently back ordered till the end of this month.

The 18mm adds $8,900 to the above set.

[Sanjin Jukic]

How much does a set cost?

Cooke PANCHRO Lens Set ( 25mm, 32mm , 50mm, 75mm & 100mm) $33,600

Link >>> (http://www.zgc.com/webstore.nsf/ProductsSEO/cooke_zgcpanchroall.html)

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

The 18mm is well worth it! I didn't think I'd use it as often as the 5-set lenses, but on my last film, I found myself on the lens as much or more than any of the others.

Of course the material and requirements of the particular story dictated such, but none-the-less, I walked off that film and thought, "by god, I can't imagine shooting this two months ago and not having the 18mm."

[OptiTek]

Just had a thought: If the irises are hard stopped before opening to full clear glass aperture would there be a possibility to open them up and gain extra stop or so?
Can you guys look inside the lenses and let me know how much of the iris blades you see wide open? Or are they completely hidden?
I know S4s have irises stopped down for baffling the stray light....
I'm willing to go see myself if someone has them in Los Angeles...

[Christopher Barrett]

Jacek, my Panchro/i's have a matte aperture behind the iris... providing nice bokeh wide open. Some of the lenses seem to open a little more beyond that....so, if you removed the mattes you might get a little more.

[OptiTek]

So they have a sort of waterhouse stop beside the iris.
One would have to remove it first and make the iris open wider than the glass diameter to maximize the speed...:coolgleamA:

[Timur Civan]

I believe the thinking is these lenses are "pre stopped down" for best performance. Yes technically the iris can open more, but you will probably have poor optical performance "wide" open.

The panchros are tack sharp wide open at T2.8 and stay that way...

[Christopher Barrett]

Nothing real exciting, but some casting footage shot on the 50mm at T / 4. I love my new glass!

Clint (http://youtu.be/AQ2p-g5afjU?hd=1)
Jack (http://youtu.be/a2E_ftX2Zmo?hd=1)

[Tom.Wong]

Just had a thought: If the irises are hard stopped before opening to full clear glass aperture would there be a possibility to open them up and gain extra stop or so?
Can you guys look inside the lenses and let me know how much of the iris blades you see wide open? Or are they completely hidden?
I know S4s have irises stopped down for baffling the stray light....
I'm willing to go see myself if someone has them in Los Angeles...

Jacek, I don't have a particular reference, but I have heard of someone doing exactly what you just said. they opened up the lens and took out the matte and it opened up to a t2 like an S4, but it was also crazy soft. so it's def doable, but I think the loss in quality out ways the benefits of doing so.

[Timur Civan]

Be a man! shoot at a T2.8! ;)

[Rick Darge]

I thought real men focus pull at 1.3 ?

[Timur Civan]

Thats AC's..... I'm Talking DP's.

I mean the full knock down drag out, activation of beast mode, for a DOP is lighting a set to a T16. Thank you Gregg Toland for performing a pile-driver on the photon.