How to Shoot my Segment.

[tj williams]

Currently I get jobs to work on segments of larger programs where other crews have been used at other locations. Often they send tapes to show me the lighting/camera movement/composition style which has been established.

Let's say the show has been shooting using HDCam/Varicam so far on other locations around the world.

The producer is going to show up with a Sony/Panasonic set up card and ask me to set up the camera we are using here to match the other cameras used previously in the show.

Now for my RED Setup.

I put the camera in reduced sensor mode and mount a S16 zoom to get similiar depth of field to whats already been done.

I set the RED at the established frame rate. Set output to RGB 1080 or 720 set interlaced or progressive as has been done so far.

I take the Sony/Panasonic set up card to my computer. which has REDCINE loaded, place the set up card in the reader and?????

[Graeme Nattress]

You point the existing camera as set up to a macbeth card, and generate an image. You do the same with RED and tweak until it looks the same. Sony setup files don't work in Panasonic cameras or software, as they're proprietary. You don't just need to know the values, but the exact algorithms that they determine, which are secret and won't ever be known.

Graeme

[Mike Devlin]

Graeme's approach is the practical one. It is not just that Panasonic and Sony are incompatible. There are significant differences in menus and settings between the F900/3 (also known as the F900H) and the F900R, for example. Plus that way you avoid STDs (Settings Transmitted Diseases).

[Finner]

sounds like when the camera comes out a few people will be able to test, compare and create some sony or panasonic LUT's that match specific cameras. This would be great as people could post here what they have found and different users could send each other the LUT they need and bingo you have a match.

[Graeme Nattress]

Yes, that's right Finner - it's a reverse engineering process and your suggestion would work great.

Graeme

[tj williams]

Graeme or Finner
Could you clarify how one writes a look up table and how one puts it into the camera, or are we again talking about rendered output from the computer?

MIke: This has come up with us on different cameras also. It sometimes won't work unless you have the exact same model/series camera.
This is a big pain, since it causes the producer to specifiy a specific cameramodel and series. So if you buy a brand new Sony F900R. They may still force you to shoot with an older version where it will match? better?

[Graeme Nattress]

Once we've got it locked down, I'd love to tell you the precise details of how it works!

However, it's more than just a lut, as that only covers tonal changes, but also a 3x3 matrix which governs camera transforms. Manipulating them can require either a great deal of time, or of expertise (or both).

Graeme

[tj williams]

"Manipulating them can require either a great deal of time, or of expertise (or both)."

Graeme

I hope not!!! as you may be able to tell from my posts I'm not terrifically comfortable with computers. I've set upSD/HD cameras but it was just look at the monitor tweak the menus. Look at other setups that have been done or
just insert the card and push load.

On a Sony/Panasonic just insert the card and match! Setup is not completely crazy either, set from the menus save to card. It will be very much appreciated here if I can just load a lut fm someone who sets it up by attaching to the computer and hiting UPLOAD. thereby giving my RED the LUTs look in the output.

[Nick Shaw]

I think Graeme's taalking about the detailed internal workings, which the user does not need to worry about. I assume REDCINE is an easy to use interface to this complexity, and what I hope is that you can use REDCINE to define a look, then save that as a setup which can be uploaded to the camera.

[Graeme Nattress]

Yes indeed Nick!

Graeme

[tj williams]

Graeme Quoted:
You point the existing camera as set up to a macbeth card, and generate an image. You do the same with RED and tweak until it looks the same. Sony setup files don't work in Panasonic cameras or software, as they're proprietary. You don't just need to know the values, but the exact algorithms that they determine, which are secret and won't ever be known.

Mike quoted:
Graeme's approach is the practical one. It is not just that Panasonic and Sony are incompatible. There are significant differences in menus and settings between the F900/3 (also known as the F900H) and the F900R, for example. Plus that way you avoid STDs (Settings Transmitted Diseases).

Of course if I had all these cameras sitting around my shop to do a comparison setup, on a chart, there would be no problem!!

What I'm gonna get, as I said above, is a Panasonic Sony Setup card, and the brand model of a camera.(which they would like me to use) which I'll need to match, to use the RED.

REgarding these camera set ups: Now once in a while you get some super cool custom setup. Mostly what you get is either a standard factory setting, a little color change and cine gamma set up to look more film like, or sometimes a bright more satuarated sports set'up

Steve: Thanks for the reassurance that I would eventually be able to exchange setups with others who wrote them.

Perhaps I'm dreamin here, but after the RED is out a product I'd really like to see from RED would be a cd of looks including: matching common looks of other HD cameras. ie F900 Varicam, Standard setup, Cine Gamma setups, and maybe some common film emulsion setups. It would be very cool if we had looks from some popular shows or spots (realizing that the set up is only part of it and that these would be approximations.)

The RED team has access to some of these other cameras because the owner of RED (I believe) owns some of them. So this might be a product they will be interested in developing. Otherwise this would be a very nice 2nd part product from someone who is really good at setting up camera looks.

[Graeme Nattress]

I think this would make for a great 3rd party opportunity.