The Assassination of Jesse James

[Tom Lowe]

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2099/jessejameslb8.jpg

So is anyone else here totally stoked to see this? Someone over on cinematography.com saw an early screening and was absolutely raving about the photography.

Condolences to Mullen, but it looks like this is gonna walk away with the Oscar for Cinematography, and possibly a few other categories, if it lives up to what people are saying.

Damn, I can't wait.

[Adam C Lubkin]

A friend saw an early screening months ago, and thought it was great, but got the impression they were looking for ways to chop it down. Hopefully they didn't cut it too much.

[Tom Lowe]

Did he mention a screening time in terms of hours and minutes?

[Alex Wengert]

Shot by Roger Deakins with Cooke S4's on Arri 535B and Arricam LT.

[Desert Rune]

1. Mount wide-angle lens.
2. Shoot landscape at golden hour.
3. ????
4. Profit.

Movie looks delightful.

[Tom Lowe]

1. Mount wide-angle lens.
2. Shoot landscape at golden hour.
3. ????
4. Profit.

Movie looks delightful.

Um, if this was the case, Malick movies would rake in huge profits. :)

The fact is that most of the top cinematography movies, from In the Mood for Love to Road to Perdition to Barry Lyndon and The Thin Red Line, have all performed poorly at the box office.

If natural light/beautiful cinematography = box office, everyone would be doing it. Unfortunately, a movie like Big Momma's House 2 made more money than several of the films I mentioned... combined.

[C.H.Haskell]

This looks promising Tom... I have a new found love for those Cooke S4 primes, this could be really good!

[Tom Lowe]

Wait a second, I thought S4s were kind of slow??

Why would Deakins use lenses that slow for natural-light cinematography? Am I missing something here?

[Dominic Jones]

FWIW, S4's are not slow - they're T2 (maybe about f1.8 or so in SLR terms, difficult to say for sure of course), but in addition to that, contrary to most lenses, they're very, very good WFO.

Nothing wrong with S4's as a choice for natural light photography, at least imho...

EDIT: BTW, I don't think Deakins has won an Oscar for his work yet, and (no disrepect at all to the venerable Mr Mullen, who's work I'm a big fan of) he bloody well deserves one. Absolutely top-notch DP if ever there was one.

EDIT 2: Jesus Tom, that's a hellish post count - how do you do it?!

[Tom Lowe]

Dominic, that's what everyone is saying... Deakins deserves it.... plus this Jesse James picture totally deserves it....

[Tom Lowe]

but... T2 is not "fast"....

actually it's slow.

people who buy RED want 1.3

[jbeale]

Depends on what you need... from what we've seen, Red is pretty good at low light so maybe Red shooters don't really want T1.3 if there's a compromise in image quality. And is there any lens that goes to T1.3 and doesn't compromise image quality, as compared with a Cooke S4 at T2 ?

[Dominic Jones]

And is there any lens that goes to T1.3 and doesn't compromise image quality, as compared with a Cooke S4 at T2 ?
You see, this is the big factor - just because a lens can go to T1.3 doesn't necessarily mean you want to shoot at T1.3 in an ideal world. The S4's on the other hand I'm quite happy to shoot WFO.

Also, I can't see why people would particularly want T1.3 glass for the Red - it's rated at 320ASA, which is easily fast enough to light comfortably to T2.8 or so. All the red glass is slower than T1.3 - the zooms are T3 and even the primes are slated to be, what, about T2 or so?

I guess it's all a matter of personal opinion, but I'd regard T2 (a highly usable T2 at that) to be fairly fast, but then I mainly do drama and promos and rarely shoot in low light conditions, so that probably colours my opinion somewhat...

Perhaps a factor influencing people's decisions is experience with 35mm adapters? Those who's primary experiences with 35mm glass is through an adapter might well over-emphasise speed as they're used to loosing so much light through those systems? Whenever I shoot on those systems I tend to go for super-fast optics, although (budget permitting, we're still working out the package) the next film I shoot will hopefully be with an F-900, Pro35 and a set of S4's, and I'm comfortable with their speed even on that system.

Just my 0.02, of course - ymmv.

[Jason Murphy]

So is anyone else here totally stoked to see this? Someone over on cinematography.com saw an early screening and was absolutely raving about the photography.

Condolences to Mullen, but it looks like this is gonna walk away with the Oscar for Cinematography, and possibly a few other categories, if it lives up to what people are saying.

To take the thread back to the original question (albeit briefly, I'm sure), I'm definitely looking forward to seeing this one; have been for over a year since the first preview came out in theaters. You know, back when the studios said it was going to come out last September?

And yeah, at the moment, it looks like this is the movie to beat as far as cinematography goes. Between this and No Country for Old Men, looks like Deakins is going to have a very good year.

[Alex Wengert]

Roger also shot "In the Valley of Elah" the new Paul Haggis film which came out last Friday in limited release. Both "No Country" and "Elah" were shot on Zeiss Master Primes.

[C.H.Haskell]

From what i was told at the Offhollywood seminar at Tekserve in there experience with RED being so sensitive with light when they shoot outdoors during the day you have to use ND + polarizer etc. This is not news to anyone here I am sure but I agree with Dominc's point here…(I am also one of those 35mm adaptor users as well)

(not to get too off subject but).. by the way how do those S4's handle natural low light in your experience D.Jones?

[Steven Parker]

here you go, Tom...

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2007/09/20/movies/20070921_SLIDESHOW_JESSEJAMES_index.html

just, ah... don't read the review

[Dominic Jones]

(not to get too off subject but)..
I think we might have already blown it there!!

I'm not entirely sure I understand the question, so here's my ad-hoc reply - let me know if I've completely missed the point!

As I said, I don't tend to shoot in really low light - I'll usually add something if needs be to get a good stop - but they produce a fabulous image wide open, so unless you really need to have the extra stop and a bit you get with a set of superspeeds, for instance, then I don't think you'd be foolish to use them.

Obviously in an ideal world you'd pick your glass on optical characteristics alone for a given shoot, but of course in reality those annoying things like budget and exposure get in the way!

As regards shooting on Red, the sensor from what I've seen looks so clean that you might well be able to push it to 640ASA without the image degrading appreciably (I've not played with a Red yet, so this is all speculation, just to be clear), which will pretty much match exposure @ T2 on the S4 with superspeeds WFO @ 320ASA. Of course they produce very different looks, but on a purely technical basis I'd would have thought you'll get a better image from the S4/640ASA combo than the Superspeed/320 route would provide. You'd need to test the camera/speed/lens combos to make sure though, of course.

Sorry, I'm rambling, aren't I?? I guess all I'm saying is unless you're in an extreme situation where you absolutely need every photon available, then I think they're a perfectly reasonable choice of lens - is that any help?

Oh, one thing to add is that the S4's have a lovely "softer" creamy look to them (or rather the images they produce do!), which is a great match for soft natural light. The film I mentioned above has a lot of (hopefully) overcast ext shots in it, which is part of the reason I'm pushing for the Cooke's. So in that respect I think they're a great choice for natural light photography, particularly if the scenes you're shooting are in soft natural light...

[jbeale]

OT I guess, but.. just came across these examples from a f/0.95 lens (!)
I thought such a fast optic must have poor quality wide open, but the examples look quite nice. This was a Canon 35mm still lens from the early 1960s.
http://homepage.mac.com/jlw/photo/canon_on_rd1/

[Desert Rune]

Rodenstock 50mm f/0.75 :bleh:

http://www.naturfotograf.com/need_speed00.html#top

[Tom Lowe]

Haha, f/0.75... I love it.

I just saw Eastern Promises today... awesome movie.

You know, the one picture on the horizon that might actually give Jesse James some competition, in terms of photography, is that Ang Lee picture, "Lust, Caution." I also understand it would get an X or NC-17 in its current form, due to a whole lot of naked females. :)

[Jason Murphy]

Haha, f/0.75... I love it.

I just saw Eastern Promises today... awesome movie.

You know, the one picture on the horizon that might actually give Jesse James some competition, in terms of photography, is that Ang Lee picture, "Lust, Caution." I also understand it would get an X or NC-17 in its current form, due to a whole lot of naked females. :)

Also naked Tony Leung. Let's be equal opportunity about this.

In all seriousness, though, 'Elizabeth: The Sequel' looks promising, too, as does Elswit's work on 'There Will Be Blood.'

And while the trailer shows some cinematography that's more subtle than stunning, Harris Savides shot 'American Gangster', and he's always one to watch.

[Tom Lowe]

Yeah, you're right about those ones.

BTW, I noticed that Jesse James is playing at the Landmark West LA. That wouldn't by any chance be 4K, would it??

[C.H.Haskell]

I believe its being screened digitally in the local cinema around the corner from my house. The Park slope pavilion has one of those satellite digital theaters in it but I still have little information on what they are screening with. I will look into it.

YES, the soft creamy effect of the the Cooke S4’s are a good way to describe it...I am seriously considering renting these for use on a feature...where are you able to find what lens are used in what movies ect? Is there some sort of Database online with all this info?

Thanks

[Sam Druckerman]

Yeah, you're right about those ones.

BTW, I noticed that Jesse James is playing at the Landmark West LA. That wouldn't by any chance be 4K, would it??

3 of the 8 FULL SIZE screens have 4K projectors....

Have to call to know for sure, but I'm guessing .....yes.

[Tom Lowe]

Sam, let us know if you find out.

[Sam Druckerman]

Hey Tom,

I guessed wrong..... sorry.

Only two screens this weekend are projecting in 4K, both are Across The Universe.

The third is not being used because they don't have any other digital prints to display.

[Tom Lowe]

Yeah, the number of pictures getting the 4K treatment is still very small, unfortunately. Jesse James seems like a great candidate for 4K, though, in theory. Not that logic really seems to have anything to do with it... I mean, why Oceans 13 was chosen seems very odd... it's a grainy, processed film image that IMO doesn't seem ideal for showing off 4K projection.

[Sam Druckerman]

It's seems just around the corner until digital prints become more common place.

Now I find my self tempted by the 4k projector to see iffy movies.

It's funny, cause I saw Sunshine at the Land mark in 4K..... can't say I loved the movie but man, it looked great.

Now Across the U is playing and from the trailers, and what I've heard from friends, it doesn't sound like my kind of flick.... But, in 4K it's probably going to look terrific.

I wish Into the wild was in 4k to.

Oh well.

[Jason Murphy]

Yeah, the number of pictures getting the 4K treatment is still very small, unfortunately. Jesse James seems like a great candidate for 4K, though, in theory. Not that logic really seems to have anything to do with it... I mean, why Oceans 13 was chosen seems very odd... it's a grainy, processed film image that IMO doesn't seem ideal for showing off 4K projection.

Yeah, but I bet Steven Soderbergh is, for some reason, interested in learning as much about doing 4K work as possible; just a hunch. :)

Also, if Soderbergh got the studios to spend the extra money for Vision Premier prints in all film markets, seems like a 4K deliverable wouldn't be that farfetched.

[Tom Lowe]

Yeah I'm gonna be skipping Across the Universe. The trailer looked like a mess to me.

Ah... Into the Wild... I forgot that was coming out. Is it this year? I ran into the production crew in El Centro, CA, coming back from doing some shooting out at the Salton Sea. Penn and everyone were in town and they were shooting some kind of scene near the old post office there. I hope Penn does the book justice; it's one of my alltime faves in terms of non-fiction over the last couple of decades. The trailer left me a little lukewarm, though. It kind of seemed like the production was a little too "on the nose" if you know what I mean. A story like this calls for a lot of subtly, and not a lot of overt talking and explaining.

Good point about Soderbergh and 4K, Jason. :)

[Sam Druckerman]

Into the Wild arrived here in LA Yesterday..... It's at the Landmark.

From what I've gathered from watching Penn on Charlie Rose last night..... there's very little dialog.

I want to see it.

FWIW Penn said the young actor is "better than me".

[Tom Lowe]

That's the guy who in Girl Next Door, right? He seems pretty good.

If you do see it, Sam, let us know what you think.

[Albert Cheng]

Yeah, I just got back from Eastern Promises too. Liked it a lot. I keep thinking to myself how all Cronenberg films feel like Cronenberg films, I'm sure you'll know what I mean. I believe it's the tone and compositions of his films that make it so. He loves those singles.

Anyways, back to Assasination of JJ. I saw the trailer to this movie when I saw 3:10 to yuma at the Landmark and I was blown away at the cinematography. I said to myself "this movies is gonna win best cinematography" just from the 2 minutes. I'm gonna go see it next week.

BTW, anyway else notice that the Landmark attracts a much older and affluent crowd? No problems with that of course...just an observation.

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

Yeah, the number of pictures getting the 4K treatment is still very small, unfortunately. Jesse James seems like a great candidate for 4K, though, in theory. Not that logic really seems to have anything to do with it... I mean, why Oceans 13 was chosen seems very odd... it's a grainy, processed film image that IMO doesn't seem ideal for showing off 4K projection.

That sounds as good a reason as any to me.
Lotsa processed grain yes sir

[Tom Lowe]

Hopefully without giving away too much, I will say that Eastern Promises' vague ending will keep it from being a big success. After more people here have seen it, we can get into the details. But god damn, I guarantee that the "sauna" scene will go down in legend. Holy shit.

[Albert Cheng]

If there was an academy award for best fight scene....EP would own.

[Jason Murphy]

Yeah, I just got back from Eastern Promises too. Liked it a lot. I keep thinking to myself how all Cronenberg films feel like Cronenberg films, I'm sure you'll know what I mean. I believe it's the tone and compositions of his films that make it so. He loves those singles.

True. Cronenberg is so completely in control of his scenes; hardly a wasted frame or movement anywhere. He does nothing flashy, but he works with such a sure hand; it's a joy to watch.

'Eastern Promises' seems somewhat underwritten (something I rarely feel). But that's more than made up for by Cronenberg's direction, and the performances of the actors here; everyone gives excellent performances. That said, Viggo Mortensen absolutely owns the film. And the scene in the bathhouse has to be seen to be believed.

[Tom Lowe]

If there was an academy award for best fight scene....EP would own.

Doesn't MTV have a category like "Best Fight"? The sauna scene should be a lock. ;)

[Adam C Lubkin]

Did he mention a screening time in terms of hours and minutes?

He just saw it again yesterday in LA. Estimates that about 10-15 minutes have been cut, though he didn't precisely time it the first viewing and they didn't announce a running time, so the estimate could be off. He could tell that it had been cut but couldn't pinpoint exactly where, which is a good thing. He feels that it's a masterpiece.

[Tom Lowe]

The fact that Jesse James is at 68% on rotten tomatoes right now is kind of encouraging to me, since my favorite pictures from the last two years, The New World and The Fountain, were both hovering around the 50-60% mark.

Any domestic film over 70% is suspect to me, because there are just way too many knucklehead critics out there who wouldn't know a masterpiece if it smacked them in the face. :)

[Jozo Zovko]

Hello -
This is my first post here on these red pages

I've seen this film 2 times in the last week - and would have no problem seeing it a few more times - it's quite great in most every way - it is very much in the same pool as some of Malick's films - nice, slow, and dreamy in a "Spirit of the Beehive" kind of way - and so far i think this is the frontrunner for best cinematography of the year - some really really nice low light night photography - it all feels incredibly natural

In regards to Cooke S4s being slow - well... T2 is by no means "slow" - primes lenses at T2.8 or T4 i would call slow - but not T2 - these lenses seem to be optimized to be used wide open ala Leica M lenses (where a new 35/2 still outperforms a new 35/1.4 when set at equal stops) - thats not the case with most lenses that open up around T1.4

Use a set of Zeiss super speeds and take them past T2 and all you gain is speed - but you start to lose in just about all other categories - and its usually rare you ever need to go past T2 anyway - i can't remember when was the last time i worked on a film where we needed to go past T2 during nights/interiors on a regular basis - and add anamorphics to the mix as well where you may not even go past T2.8 a lot of the time - so in a nutshell - If they are good enough for Roger Deakins and this gorgeous film - they should be good enough for just about anyone

Both screenings of "Jessie James" were at the Landmark theater in Westwood - and thank-goodness both screenings were NOT in 4k - i'm so far not a fan of digital projection - it really would have done this film a disservice

I got to see Dr. Strangelove projected in 4K at this same theater - it wasn't that great of a sight - i don't like seeing pink colored blown-out highlight fringes during a black and white film - and it all just feels like watching a big TV - sure the resolution is fine - and should be the minimum resolution for all future digital theaters - but for now - the images being pumped out of those machines just feel "wrong" - they are completely lacking in that "special something" you get with a film print

Its like seeing a great live concert compared to sitting at home with MP3s of that same live concert - i really hope we learn to slow down a bit when it comes to installing these machines in our theaters - once they can actually replicate "that feeling" 100% - then sure - go ahead and change em all - but for now it would be a cinematic sin to rush poor technology into the market - i feel we are really just fooling ourselves so far in this world of digital projection - but i do hope that we soon have a bright day emerging on the horizon

Adios
Have a nice day
JZ
Camera Department
LA, CA