Delivery Update...

[Jannard]

I am posting the newest delivery schedule as of today. I know that some will be unhappy. My apologies. It is my call.

There are two primary reasons for the slip.

1. A bad batch of IR/LP filters. We now have good ones on the way and a backup supplier, but a $35 part has set us back on a $17,500 camera.

2. A change in our Firmware plan. We have found that when we enable features, we are having more bugs than anticipated. The extra time will give us the "elbow room" we need to finish enabling a batch of features and thouroughly test the build before shipping. I have to admit that we were caught off guard by this. The extra time is mandatory so we can get back ahead of the game.

I appreciate everyone's patience in this startup phase of RED ONE delivery. I think everyone knows how difficult a task we put on ourselves with our aggressive program. We have been open in telling you the good news and the bad. Transparency means telling you everything, if even when the news is not what you want to hear.

We are helping connect those that have a desparate need to shoot RED with customers that already have a RED ONE.

Jim

Serial numbers 1-50 Delivered
Serial numbers 51-100 October 15th (50 units)
Serial numbers 101-200 October 30th (100 units)
Serial numbers 201- 600 November 30th (400 units)
Serial numbers 601- 1100 December 30th (500 units)
Serial numbers 1101- 1600 January 30th (500 units)
Serial numbers 1601- 2200 February 30th (500 units)
Serial numbers 2201- 2700 March 30th (500 units)
Serial numbers 2701- 3400 April 30th (700 units)
Serial numbers 3401- 4100 May 30th (700 units)

[Dexter Gregoire]

Will there be any news as to what serial number we hold for those who ordered at NAB 07?

[Craig Bowman]

Sure wish you could add another 14 units to the October 30th date! ;)

[IAN SUN]

Thanks for the timely update Jim, no additional slippage for me:)

[Hrvoje Simic]

No problem. Thanks for sharing, Jim.

I wonder about that holiday season delivery batch, and possible delays for global deliveries.

[Jannard]

There is a possibility that we can build up our production lines to accelerate numbers from Dec. on... we are looking at that now. No promises.

So far, all current orders received should be filled by April 2008.

Jim

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks for the update, Jim. Much appreciated. ...Looks like I don't have to annoy the family trying to get 4K shots of the kids Christmas morning this year. They will thank you for that... Hehe.

[Craig Bowman]

How's the 50-150mm Zoom coming along?

[Dexter Gregoire]

It would be nice to know what serial number we hold. Maybe play those numbers at the casino, try and get lucky. April sounds good though, thanks.

[Keith Nealy]

No worries, Jim. I know this is harder for you than it is for us. Hopefully the short-time guys can find an accomodation.

As always, we appreciate your candor.

aloha,

Keith

[Paul Hazlett]

better late than buggy. its easier to tell a client I dont have than "well you see
the problem is...."

[PaulClements]

Thanks for the update Jim,

You're a month late though, my birthday is October 30th not November 30th :)

Paul

[filip kovcin]

Serial numbers 1-50 Delivered
...
Serial numbers 1601- 2200 February 30th (500 units)
...

Dear Jim,
Please, be so kind and change that date - February 30th - i cannot find that date in any calendar - exept red's. or maybe we all must change our gregorian calendar to Redian or Jimian? :)

regards from poland.

filip

[Daniel Reichenbach]

Serial numbers 201- 600 November 30th (400 units)

So I definitively lost my bet. I'll come back to your promise to buy me a beer. You choose the place and I will be there :shifty:

[Gabriel C.]

Are you shipping the cameras all at once ... or throughout the month? I'm sure everyone has this issue, but I have a feature I'm shooting on December 1st, and if we don't get the RED, we're shooting HVX :(

[Steven Parker]

Serial numbers 601- 1100 December 30th (500 units)


still gonna be a good christmas!

[Jason Francois]

Thanks for the update.

[Emanuel A.]

Thanks for the update. We'll be waiting patiently.

[Roberto B]

Serial numbers 1601- 2200 February 30thsorry, mr. president.. ehehehehe this time you'll pay attention to me.. :) :love:

[Daniel Reichenbach]

Sure wish you could add another 14 units to the October 30th date! ;)

An other 22, 222 should be a lucky number

[Emanuel A.]

Thanks for the update.Jason, it seems we were thinking the same at the same time. LOL

[ATF]

Hello,

I know someone asked this earlier, but I was also hoping to get an answer.

Placed my order for a camera package on the 2nd day of NAB in April. I received a printed timestamp.

How do we get a serial number out of it? If we don't get a serial number, how can we determine our place on that schedule.

I haven't seen a straightforward answer on this issue. Any help would be great.

Thanks!

ATF

[number6]

Guess someone should say thanks to the 50 camera ouners that have taken delivery... just think how annoying it must be to have cameras with the faults that have been caught, by them for us.

Still, I don't hear many complaints from them for doing bug patrol for the rest of us. Thanks to them, thanks to all folks RED, when I take possession of a camera it should be all or more than expected.

I presume this is the price one pays for having a manufacturer who decides to deliver more than originally promised.

[Damien Molineaux]

Hello,

I know someone asked this earlier, but I was also hoping to get an answer.

Placed my order for a camera package on the 2nd day of NAB in April. I received a printed timestamp.

How do we get a serial number out of it? If we don't get a serial number, how can we determine our place on that schedule.

I haven't seen a straightforward answer on this issue. Any help would be great.

Thanks!

ATF

There have been many posts about this, do a search. Red has clearly stated orders starting from NAB'07 onwards don't have a precise serial number. I would say that is a straightforward answer. I'll add it is quite understandable that with Red's reimbursment policy, associating every order with a serial number would be a real headache. For example, if any orders are canceled, not having a fixed serial will allow the following orders to be delivered earlier, if that was not the case, then what ? They would sell the cameras to people placing orders at a later time, and deliver the cameras immediately ?!

As to your delivery time frame, there were close to, but not quite 1500 preorders, so if you ordered at NAB you should be delivered in March or April '08. That's a much more precise date than most people who made preorders had at the time they placed their order.

Patience is a virtue they say...

Cheers,
Damien

[Obin Olson]

I am not very happy with this slip. mine is 610 that means that ours has slipped a month, yet people ahead of me are getting 600 cameras. Can you include 10 more units in that schedule? I am sure you will say "no" because if you did it for me you would have to do it for others....it's just that a month is a pretty big deal.

Let me say that as a once developer of a raw camera myself I would be MORE then happy to be a hard core beta tester and get mine faster. no joke. I don't care if it works 1/2 the time and I can't get anything out of it for "real" productions.

thanks for any help on this Jim.

[mikeburton]

When i placed my order i inquired over the phone about this issue with the RED team. I ordered my camera a week before IBC a few weeks ago, and they said my order was scheduled for March/April. So i assume you should probably be on schedule for February or so? Of coarse, that doesn't mean the schedule won't change or be delayed as they have stated many times could happen. Until then, i will be dreaming of the day mine shows up as well.
Hope that helps.
Mike

[Emanuel A.]

For those who may not know, Obin had been developping a 4:4:4 10bit single CMOS HD project before the RED came up. [ LINK (http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=25808) ] 2,974 posts, 178,899 views. It says something about who is this talented young digital moviemaker, Obin Olson. ;-)


I am not very happy with this slip. mine is 610 that means that ours has slipped a month, yet people ahead of me are getting 600 cameras. Can you include 10 more units in that schedule? I am sure you will say "no" because if you did it for me you would have to do it for others....it's just that a month is a pretty big deal.

Let me say that as a once developer of a raw camera myself I would be MORE then happy to be a hard core beta tester and get mine faster. no joke. I don't care if it works 1/2 the time and I can't get anything out of it for "real" productions.

thanks for any help on this Jim.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Thanks for the update.

To repeat again that I don't have any problem with the newest or any other future RED delivery updates.

I AM A REALIST and have a great understanding of RED development and production.

[Raul Gonzo]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh man. Am I crying? No no. I just have something in both my eyes. *sighs* oh well, that,s life.

[Cail Young]

Sure wish you could add another 14 units to the October 30th date! ;)

Or another 50 ;)

Not a huge deal, more time for us to build up the bottom line!

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

I think we'll just miss the January cutoff, so I guess we'll have two coming in February and one in March or April.

[Curran Giddens]

Lucky numbers 101-600 are still on schedule. :tongue:

[Rick Darge]

Thanks Jim - Looking forward to pawing my meaty grubs on this can of space candy.

[B Newberry]

Lucky numbers 101-600 are still on schedule. :tongue:

I don't know what kind of new math you are using, but I got bumped from Oct 10 to Oct 30 to Nov 30.

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

The good thing is, maybe Apple will get their a$$ out from those iPod, iTv, iPhone, iEverything and do a good update on the MacPro series before we get our cameras!

(My timeframe is I am happy to get my RED before end of 2007, so I am still a very happy camper!)

[Matthew Rogers]

The good thing is, maybe Apple will get their a$$ out from those iPod, iTv, iPhone, iEverything and do a good update on the MacPro series before we get our cameras!

(My timeframe is I am happy to get my RED before end of 2007, so I am still a very happy camper!)

I sure hope so since I am going to be getting a MacPro to replace my PowerMac G5.

Matthew

[JFirestone]

Unfortunately for numbers 200-300 this is bad news. I don't want to complain, but we're the only ones really negatively affected by this new schedule. Most of us were all at NAB 2006 and got our reservations in within the first week, and we'll be getting our camera's at the same time as the people who waited until IBC. I've been patient, and not planning any projects until the dates looked firm, but once the cameras began shipping I figured we could start making plans. I was even cool with the 3 week push from Oct 10th to the 31st. But now we're looking at a seven week delay. Don't get me wrong, I understand what a huge undertaking this is, and the challenges that are being faced. I'm just frustrated that they will only be shipping 100 cameras in Oct instead of 200, and I was already making plans to shoot during November.

[Jannard]

Unfortunately for numbers 200-300 this is bad news. I don't want to complain, but we're the only ones really negatively affected by this new schedule. Most of us were all at NAB 2006 and got our reservations in within the first week, and we'll be getting our camera's at the same time as the people who waited until IBC. I've been patient, and not planning any projects until the dates looked firm, but once the cameras began shipping I figured we could start making plans. I was even cool with the 3 week push from Oct 10th to the 31st. But now we're looking at a seven week delay. Don't get me wrong, I understand what a huge undertaking this is, and the challenges that are being faced. I'm just frustrated that they will only be shipping 100 cameras in Oct instead of 200, and I was already making plans to shoot during November.

We don't know who is affected... we are just doing the best we can and making the best decisions we can relative to the info and capability we have. I am committed to taking care of our customers. That doesn't mean shipping as fast as we can. It means really taking care of our customers.

Jim

[Jannard]

Hello,

I know someone asked this earlier, but I was also hoping to get an answer.

Placed my order for a camera package on the 2nd day of NAB in April. I received a printed timestamp.

How do we get a serial number out of it? If we don't get a serial number, how can we determine our place on that schedule.

I haven't seen a straightforward answer on this issue. Any help would be great.

Thanks!

ATF

If you are talking NAB 2007, you are looking at March 2008.

Jim

[Häakon]

Unfortunately for numbers 200-300 this is bad news. I don't want to complain, but we're the only ones really negatively affected by this new schedule.
No offense, but everyone from 50-300 has been affected this way. Our group hs been pushed back four times now - and that's since the original delivery slip post-NAB. No one wants delays, but I'd rather have a camera with a working IR/LP filter (and what ever else is buggy right now) than a "beta" camera that isn't as good as other production models just a few weeks down the line.

The firmware updates are awesome and I expected being an early res holder that there would be software improvements over time, but I am not willing to make sacrifices in the hardware just to get the camera faster. $17,500 is far too much to spend to get a "lemon."

Jim, I'm understanding of the delays and realize this was bound to happen with your first major undertaking as a camera manufacturer - please take this time to gut anything from those 50-100 cameras that isn't 100% up to par to deliver the quality product your customers expect. And finishing up REDCINE, 16:9 recording, and variable framerates would be nice too while you're waiting for those filters... :-)

[TimPipher]

If you are talking NAB 2007, you are looking at March 2008.

Jim

I ordered early (about 9:00 AM) the first day of NAB 2007. With 1,475 orders before NAB, wouldn't that put me in the first 1,600 -- January 30, 2008?

[Jannard]

I am not very happy with this slip. mine is 610 that means that ours has slipped a month, yet people ahead of me are getting 600 cameras. Can you include 10 more units in that schedule? I am sure you will say "no" because if you did it for me you would have to do it for others....it's just that a month is a pretty big deal.

Let me say that as a once developer of a raw camera myself I would be MORE then happy to be a hard core beta tester and get mine faster. no joke. I don't care if it works 1/2 the time and I can't get anything out of it for "real" productions.

thanks for any help on this Jim.

Obin... I like you and all of your posts. It pains me to delay anyone. I am trying to accelerate all aspects of this program, not delay. But I have a responsibility to tell it like it is. If we can find a way to speed up production, I will. The 1st part of this is the hardest.

Jim

[JFirestone]

I appreciate your commitment to your customers. I've also known that being an early adopter meant that we would be the ones testing the workflow and dealing with early issues. I'm a beta tester, and have been for years, and I don't mind getting a product while it's still in the works. I know that's probably not the case with most of your customers. I was really getting ramped up to work with the camera in November. Too bad you don't have a beta program. I'd take mine as they are now if it meant I could begin testing in November.

[Jannard]

I don't know what kind of new math you are using, but I got bumped from Oct 10 to Oct 30 to Nov 30.

I don't like this anymore than you do. We know who you are. We read all the posts. This process is painful. The images are incredible that RED makes. We just need to make sure that there are no complaints about how well everything works before we ship more cameras.

Jim

[Raul Gonzo]

What,s a few more weeks people? In the end we,ll all have our cameras and be eternally gratefully to Jim and the RED team for doing everything they do. AND- if it wasn't for them who knows how long we would have had to wait for a camera like this.

[Greg M]

take a deep breath guys...I ordered mine on the first day of NAB 2006. I am just as sad as everyone, but honestly do you think Jim and Co. are doing this on purpose? They are acting in our best interests...cut them some slack. I was really looking forward to my camera next week, but I'll get over it (after I finish yelling at my kids).

Once we get our cameras we will forget all about the delays.

[Chris Gearhart]

Cool. It's good to know the schedule. Thanks, Jim, for your openness. Now I can go home for thanksgiving!

[Sam Druckerman]

If you're going to ride a rocket, there's bound to be some Ups & Downs.

No one likes delays, But clearly Team Red is working to make the Impossible... Possible, Everyday. So....

Thanks guy's for all your Hard work.

Let's all remember our character is defined not by our successes, but rather how we handle our challenges.

Go Team Red.

[JFirestone]

No offense, but everyone from 50-300 has been affected this way. Our group hs been pushed back four times now - and that's since the original delivery slip post-NAB.

None taken. I should have checked the accuracy of that statement.

[number6]

Those who complain bitterly about their order number being shipped later should take personal responsibility for their plight. If you wanted your camera earlier, you should have ordered earlier. Next time, ORDER RESPONSIBLY!

[Mark Crabtree]

I am an early bird at number 100 and so I will receive my camera before most of you. I work now mostly with Varicam which I have down to a science. My customers all know about the Red camera and are constantly asking me if I have it yet. I know they are excited for me and they want to have the latest and greatest used on their projects but I am constantly reminding them that this is a development project and that we are on the cutting edge here. Just because I get the camera delivered say by October 15th does not mean I am ready to shoot a project on it. I will need time to do tests and not perfect but at least establish the work flow at my facility. Yes, I and my clients and everyone waiting for their cameras are excited as we near delivery, but lets all remember that we are all a part of something bigger than ourselves alone, we make up a community of people who together are going to change the industry the way Geoge Lucas predicted it would be changed about ten years ago. The worst thing that could happen is for Jim to rush out the cameras at an almost ready state with bugs that make serious work too difficult for us to sell to professionals. All the nay sayers since the start would proclaim we were a pipe dream. We are not a pipe dream. We just need a few more days to be as spectacular as we all know we are going to be.

[B Newberry]

I don't like this anymore than you do. We know who you are. We read all the posts. This process is painful. The images are incredible that RED makes. We just need to make sure that there are no complaints about how well everything works before we ship more cameras.

Jim

No worries Jim. I know the camera is worth the wait. I really appreciate all that RED is doing. The delay is helping me get all my ducks in a row. I only meant to point out that his statement was just not accurate.

[David Battistella]

Serial numbers 1-50 Delivered
Serial numbers 51-100 October 15th (50 units)
Serial numbers 101-200 October 30th (100 units)
Serial numbers 201- 600 November 30th (400 units)
Serial numbers 601- 1100 December 30th (500 units)
Serial numbers 1101- 1600 January 30th (500 units)
Serial numbers 1601- 2200 February 30th (500 units)
Serial numbers 2201- 2700 March 30th (500 units)
Serial numbers 2701- 3400 April 30th (700 units)
Serial numbers 3401- 4100 May 30th (700 units)

Since the Canadian dollar is at par, would RED consider advance payment for the Camera and accessories at this time?

David

[JFirestone]

Those who complain bitterly about their order number being shipped later should take personal responsibility for their plight. If you wanted your camera earlier, you should have ordered earlier. Next time, ORDER RESPONSIBLY!

:) I like that...Order responsibly.

But seriously some of us ordered at NAB 2006. That's pretty early.

I'm not bitter, I'm just frustrated that I missed the cutoff. I thought I was going to be in the 100-300 group that shipped by the end of October.

Jon #232

[Steve Sherrick]

Heres the deal guys. For the past 15 years that I've been involved with hardware and software purchases in this industry I have found that far too often products are rushed to shelves because someone in the marketing department needed to make a deadline. The integrity of the product was put in jeopardy. Just get it to market, we'll work out the bugs later. And then we all become beta testers. I'm sure you have all been there. New version of NLE comes out with great features, lots of excitement, and then wham, darn thing doesn't work as advertised. But I dropped $500 for this upgrade, what do you mean that feature isn't quite working yet. It's very discouraging.

Red seems to be taking a different approach. Get the thing right the first time (or as close as you possibly can) and the payoff will be wide acceptance throughout the industry. The people who were in the first batch of cameras, including the Hollywood testers were well aware of what they were getting into. But Red will find it much tougher to justify problems as the real production cameras hit the streets. And by real, I don't mean the others were not working well, just that from here on out, these cameras are going to the masses and they will be under even more scrutiny.

At this point, I want a camera that works well, has been battle tested, and is nearly 100% enabled. I believe that is what Red wants for me too. So, I am willing to wait the little extra time it will take to get it right. Keep in perspective what they are pulling off here. It's pretty incredible stuff.

Steve

[KETCH ROSSi]

I have two project in preproduction which are the most important thing in my life(and I do not have much left of it) but RED give me food for my passion and my vision, I want this cameras more then anything else, for them I will sale house car what ever, and I want them now too, but I will be patient and supportive till I get them, end of november(349) and end of december(851/852) I hope, but if not I will stay patient and continue to support Jim and the RED team incredible journey taken in building this camera of fantastic images, great accessories and a truly ground braking workflow, just thinking that I now will swap CF with RED and my Canon DSLR is just amezing, but more amezing remaines the price tag on this dream camera.

We must not forget what it cost to get a Viper filmstream or Sony F23(Dalsa and Arri D20 are not for sale) and they do not have nor the image or the workflow capability of RED, no counting incredible Production value and delivery to Post.

So I say lets try to give some true support to this guys, it is fun to chat with them when they post great clips and stills but we must be ready to chat in the same way when post such as this one inform us giving bad news.

I still can not believe how Jim has been up front and open in this tremendous projects, and I do not know if in this moment He is still pleased with His choice of doing so, my self I truly hope so cause I have enjoyed very much following the journey they have taken to get here today.

Time for my Medications.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

I get e-mails from BANDPRO still trying to sale me a Sony F23, I say I have 3 RED cameras coming and there is no changing my mind.

[Poi Boy]

I'm really bummed !!! On the other hand, I just had to return a $30K Hasselblad that I've had for two weeks because it keeps giving me an error message.
The repair may or may not be expedited, I'm waiting to hear back from them....for a week so far.
Thanks Jim for doing it right.
Aloha
-A

[mhandy]

Since the Canadian dollar is at par, would RED consider advance payment for the Camera and accessories at this time?

David

Forgive me if this is obvious - but you could buy your US dollars now, open a US dollar account and buy short term fixed income assets (depending on when you are getting your camera) and keep the interest. You can do all of this at a bank with a half intelligent branch manager.

On a $40,000 order that would be around $100 of interest per month (=more accessories); and you've locked the exchange rate.

The prevailing opinion is that the US dollar will strengthen over the coming year ($1 CAD = 0.90 USD) - perhaps after the election - but it could still get worse first. No one knows for sure.

Hope that helps.

Matt

[David Battistella]

And by real, I don't mean the others were not working well, just that from here on out, these cameras are going to the masses and they will be under even more scrutiny.Steve

I agree, consumers will be expecting the camera to accomplish anything that the competition can do, AND DO IT BETTER. All of the "wait and see" people will want the reliability they are used to. People making the investment will be looking for a camera that can work right out of the box.

I am not sure what the plan for firmware updates will be, but I hope that once there is a very stable release, that the releases come monthly or quarterly or something (if necessary).




At this point, I want a camera that works well, has been battle tested, and is nearly 100% enabled. I believe that is what Red wants for me too. So, I am willing to wait the little extra time it will take to get it right. Keep in perspective what they are pulling off here. It's pretty incredible stuff.
Steve

This is what I never try to loose sight of. Part of what I like so much about the project is the fact that people have the guts to attempt it. I really respect that. Someone looked a the landscape and said, "I want to make my mark" and it has happened. They set very high goals here and they continue to push.

David

[David Battistella]

Forgive me if this is obvious - but you could buy your US dollars now, open a US dollar account and buy short term fixed income assets (depending on when you are getting your camera) and keep the interest. You can do all of this at a bank with a half intelligent branch manager.

On a $40,000 order that would be around $100 of interest per month (=more accessories); and you've locked the exchange rate.

The prevailing opinion is that the US dollar will strengthen over the coming year ($1 CAD = 0.90 USD) - perhaps after the election - but it could still get worse first. No one knows for sure.

Hope that helps.

Matt


Matt. This is a nice idea.

Thank you!

David

[Steve Sherrick]

This is what I never try to loose sight of. Part of what I like so much about the project is the fact that people have the guts to attempt it. I really respect that. Someone looked a the landscape and said, "I want to make my mark" and it has happened. They set very high goals here and they continue to push.

David

And I don't think there's anyone who wants this to work out for everyone more than Jim. This has to be a personal crusade for him. It's not good enough to make a camera that puts out pretty pictures, he wants this to go all the way. He wants everyone (including himself) to be obsessed with this camera. By that I mean, it's so good you don't want to put it down. You just want to keep shooting, all the time. That's my theory anyway. Jim?

Steve

[David Battistella]

And I don't think there's anyone who wants this to work out for everyone more than Jim. This has to be a personal crusade for him. It's not good enough to make a camera that puts out pretty pictures, he wants this to go all the way. He wants everyone (including himself) to be obsessed with this camera. By that I mean, it's so good you don't want to put it down. You just want to keep shooting, all the time. That's my theory anyway. Jim?

Steve


Yes... I really like how much I read about how the camera is motivating people to shoot. That is when technology transcends. Yes, it's a tool, but it is one that inspires you to build (or in this case make films, capture images, etc). I don't look at the CineAlta line and say, "i want to shoot with that camera" but I do feel that way about RED.

David

[Steve Sherrick]

To be honest, I haven't been this inspired since I was in film school a long time ago. There's something about the way they have gone about this whole process, allowing us to provide feedback on the design, and building this community that you can't help but want to be a part of. I know I'm taking a chance of sounding like a fanboy here, but I have picked up a lot of video cameras in my time and had fun shooting with them but I have a feeling this one might feel a little different. Time will tell.

Steve

[Eryc Tramonn]

Hmmph. I'm sold. I just don't want to deal with the delays and false expectations, so I'm waiting until the production cycle is a little more ironed out and there are more functioning units in the field.

I worked an industry gig yesterday shooting a commercial for Hidden Valley Ranch. Man. Talk about a waste of time, money and resources. Conventional Hollywood kills me. I brought up the RED One to the camera department and all but got mocked off the set. Honestly though, fuck what they were talking about...and I mean that in the nicest possible way. I can smell a revolution a mile away, they can't help their own myopia. It was just so irritating to witness people fumbling about, not really shooting in the most effective manner, yet reveling in hubris. And all this is shrouded in the false nicety that prevails with the above-the-liners. They are nice enough, but you can sense the self-importance. Hollywood. The day is coming when anyone with skill, and one of these cameras will be able to walk into an agency with the same footage we just spent over $100K capturing. The rub is the person with the RED One, who am I kidding, it's going to be me - anyway, this person will have done the same job in 1/3 the time, and 1/1000th the capital put into it. I'm really curious how the 'industry' is going to continue to justify the exorbitant salaries and excess of gear? Did they really need DIT...no. Did they really need trailers, PAs, catering, a Fisher, or the million other incidentals/expendables...no. A 14-hour day...hell no.

As an aside, I remember when I was at USC and bought one of the first DVD players, and recall a professor and other students guffawing at my choice. "That is never going to make it as a format," is literally what they said. Idiots. RED One is about to make history repeat itself. This camera is going to help put some talented helmers on the map, whereas you'll be able to completely bypass the rigid hierarchy currently in place. Anyone with basic knowledge of three-point lighting will be able to vie for the same jobs and produce the images everyone seems to covet. Look out world. The good old boy network is going to have a hard time continuing to outlay large chunks of capital when you'll continually have a new batch of hungry indies waiting for their turn at bat. Obviously, this is good and bad. But you can imagine that people will be willing to trump the best efforts of production teams for a fraction of the cost. A great example is Jarred's shot out the car window. His method cost nothing, but in the same scenario with a DP, you'd have rigging all over the outside of the car, friggin' hostess trays...retarded.

Jim, as if you don't already realize this, but people in Hollywood are wondering why you didn't release the camera to the rental houses here in town. In some ways those camera department heads are right. Getting a new technology up and running is hard enough, but crossing the chasm between early adopters and traditionalists, as we know, is next to impossible. That written, I would think you could have eased and encouraged acceptance by literally donating one or two cameras to the major rental houses, and then letting them beta them for a prescribed period. It's hard to deny what's tangible. That way, you not only dispel naysayers, you simultaneously prove your product and debug without adversely affecting your customer. The slippage of delivery times is frustrating for me, and I'm not even in the queue, so I can't imagine what it would be like if I actually had a reservation. Also, having the camera available in this manner first, would conceivably prevent you from having to discover issues at the expense of those who are going into hock (namely me) to purchase the camera. I know you're saying you're delaying for us, but you're also not NOT taking reservation payments. I mean, why not simply deploy after more development and production issues were tested and beta had been performed if you truly want to avoid releasing faulty hardware?

And sir, don't take what I've written as a slight. I realize what you've done. And your team is the - in the Snoop Dogg vernacular - shizzle too. But I can't help but wonder, about some of the choices. It seems if you didn't have reservations in place, a lot of the bellyaching over release date changes could have been avoided. Unless of course, this has all been but a marketing ploy.


______
My films, they bring all the girls to the yard. I could teach you, but I'd have to charge.

[Steve Sherrick]

This camera is going to help put some talented helmers on the map, whereas you'll be able to completely bypass the rigid hierarchy currently in place. Anyone with basic knowledge of three-point lighting will be able to vie for the same jobs and produce the images everyone seems to covet.
Bad approach in my opinion. Don't underestimate the value of lighting, art design, and other factors that go into beautiful imagery. A shit shot is a shit shot, no matter what you use for a camera. Knowledge of three point lighting will not help you push the veterans out. Thinking like a good DP and being able to get the most out of the camera is what will get you there.

This camera will change some things, but not by itself.

Steve

[Eryc Tramonn]

All I'm saying is, I didn't see anything done on the set that anyone else could not pull off without all the extra accoutrements. The operative adjectival clause in the statement you quoted would be "TALENTED helmers." It's going to take trained professionals to act as one man bands, and pull off the impossible. It's a duanting task, and most WILL fail. I realize this camera is simply a tool, but it's a tool that is going to level the playing field from the acquistion standpoint. It's still up to us in the end to come with the ideas, stories and other intangibles that make a film great. Only a moron doesn't get that concept at this point, but thanks for thinking highly of me.

Did Jarred have an art dept, or anything else shooting the driving shots? I doubt it. I'm not saying that is a finished commercial, but it's a damn good starting point, and one that wouldn't cost anything to acquire and bring back to tweak in the lab.

Granted, I was intentionally being overly simplistic when I mentioned three-point lighting, and my goal is not to push anyone out. It's simply to make a place for myself. Right now, the industry is mired in the bullshit of an age old caste system, but that's going to give way. And having the ability to shoot, and finish with the same resolutions as the heavy-hitters puts immense amounts of power in the indie's hands. We're bound to see more talented filmmakers arise, but by the same token, we're also guaranteed to see an exponential jump in trite filmic examples as well (irrespective of how well they look).

But I digress. That's not really the point of the post.

[Gopher77]

Jim, as if you don't already realize this, but people in Hollywood are wondering why you didn't release the camera to the rental houses here in town. In some ways those camera department heads are right. Getting a new technology up and running is hard enough, but crossing the chasm between early adopters and traditionalists, as we know, is next to impossible. That written, I would think you could have eased and encouraged acceptance by literally donating one or two cameras to the major rental houses, and then letting them beta them for a prescribed period. It's hard to deny what's tangible. That way, you not only dispel naysayers, you simultaneously prove your product and debug without adversely affecting your customer. The slippage of delivery times is frustrating for me, and I'm not even in the queue, so I can't imagine what it would be like if I actually had a reservation. Also, having the camera available in this manner first, would conceivably prevent you from having to discover issues at the expense of those who are going into hock (namely me) to purchase the camera. I know you're saying you're delaying for us, but you're also not NOT taking reservation payments. I mean, why not simply deploy after more development and production issues were tested and beta had been performed if you truly want to avoid releasing faulty hardware?

And sir, don't take what I've written as a slight. I realize what you've done. And your team is the - in the Snoop Dogg vernacular - shizzle too. But I can't help but wonder, about some of the choices. It seems if you didn't have reservations in place, a lot of the bellyaching over release date changes could have been avoided. Unless of course, this has all been but a marketing ploy.


______
My films, they bring all the girls to the yard. I could teach you, but I'd have to charge.

I couldn't disagree with you more. It was the folks that Jarred brought from DVXuser and some of the open minded hollywood pros that helped make this camera what it is. Jim opened his development to the world and we are the ones that responded. They took all of our suggestions and found ways to incorporate most. Now you think that the major rental houses should have priority! This camera is not going to go well in rental houses, it is affordable for nearly anyone to buy, so even the indie film maker will be buying not renting. The rental houses better invest in glass, ooops, Red has cine lenses too. Hmmmm Batteries, nope red has that, recording media, sorry. Well theres always props and set dressing. Maybe the rental houses shouldn't have snubed the indies for so long make it nearly impossible to make a film.

Off of my soap box

I'll have a happy new year and the slips have not bothered me at all. I can wait for an incredible camera at an incredible price!

Carry on RED!

[Eryc Tramonn]

I am so coming for you Hollywood. Thanks Jim, I've been waiting for this for a long time and didn't even realize I was waiting for it. My query about RED One deployment strategy still remains though.

[Eryc Tramonn]

I couldn't disagree with you more. It was the folks that Jarred brought from DVXuser and some of the open minded hollywood pros that helped make this camera what it is. Jim opened his development to the world and we are the ones that responded. They took all of our suggestions and found ways to incorporate most. Now you think that the major rental houses should have priority! This camera is not going to go well in rental houses, it is affordable for nearly anyone to buy, so even the indie film maker will be buying not renting. The rental houses better invest in glass, ooops, Red has cine lenses too. Hmmmm Batteries, nope red has that, recording media, sorry. Well theres always props and set dressing. Maybe the rental houses shouldn't have snubed the indies for so long make it nearly impossible to make a film.

Off of my soap box

I'll have a happy new year and the slips have not bothered me at all. I can wait for an incredible camera at an incredible price!

Carry on RED!

Huh? Are you reading my post? I'm asking a question. It's the camera department heads I was working with who have the negative attitudes about the camera. As a matter of fact, I ended up sounding like some fanboy touting what I haven't even personally seen either. They're the ones who shouldn't be saying what they said, so how do you dispel their comments? How do you instill confidence in something without asking people to simply "trust" that everything will come up roses? This is still business, and $17K is still $17K last I heard. I for one don't have that kind of cash lying around. Although I realize a lot of people certainly do, I would still imagine people will rent the cameras. Production companies for instance rarely own their own equipment (HVX's are affordable, but people still rent them). I merely presented a suggestion as a way to go about that.

[Greg Voevodsky]

Red will be ready when RED is ready.
When it rains, let it rain.

When it rains Red, there is nothing you can do.
Look forward to the downpour. ;-)

Let it Red-rain...
Let it Red-rain...
Let it Red-rain...

[Jeff Coatney]

End-Users must remain as flexible in their short-term plans and needs as RED is in conquering glitches and production delays. They will happen. Plan for it. Delay your shooting if possible. This delay is as necessary a step as delivering the first 50 cameras. If RED delivered cameras to the next however many customers and a bug surfaces after they send out a new firmware build, not only do they have to fix the bug, they have to babysit the deluge of tech support issues that arise from people dealing with that bug times 50 or 100. That could cause catastrophic disruption to the delivery schedule. The delay is the sensible option, the survivable option. IMO you're doing yourself and the folks at RED an injustice if you expect the delivery schedule to be free of hiccups. We cannot expect RED to have zero logistical defects so fresh out of the gate. They must be flexible and so then must the End-User.

[David Battistella]

We just need to make sure that there are no complaints about how well everything works before we ship more cameras.

Jim

This is just plain wise. The next releases should represent all (or as much as) a RED Digital Cinema Camera is capable of. This makes sense as releasing anything else leaves you open to criticism you do not need in the early stages of RED.

David

[David Battistella]

I know I'm taking a chance of sounding like a fanboy here, but I have picked up a lot of video cameras in my time and had fun shooting with them but I have a feeling this one might feel a little different.

Steve

Totally. I understand the fanboy criticism (only to a point) but what is the big problem with getting excited about this technology. It's democratizing among many other things.

David

[donatello b]

" Did they really need trailers, PAs, catering, a Fisher, or the million other incidentals/expendables...no. A 14-hour day...hell no."

YES they do need it all ... if you think one person can pull off the same production value- then head on down to the ad agency and present you ad at 1/1000 the cost....

Jarred shot looks very good ... now lets have the same shot in a commercial .... now it needs to be shot on this day & during these hours , teh ad agency & client will have 6 persons there ... we need total of 3 cars , need to get permits to control the same road , have XY insurance , schedule police to control traffic , insurance might require stunt drivers , may only have a one 1 hr time window to get the shot , will need persons to clean the car ( dust it , clean off bird crap etc) , where do persons go to bathroom out there ? , food ? ... it's no longer a 2-4 person shoot ... so you say forget the crew, just steal the shot - well you tell the ad agency & client you're just going to go out and steal the shot and you'll show it to them later = not going to happen - you gotta to do it all by the book ( permits , insurance etc ) ..
do you think local ads are only bad because they are shot on SD video ? switch the SD to HD or 35mm you think they'll be any better ? i don't think so ....

"It's the camera department heads I was working with who have the negative attitudes about the camera. As a matter of fact, I ended up sounding like some fanboy touting what I haven't even personally seen either."

just maybe this is like the big stock years ... you know where you go to the gas pump, grocery store , shoe store and the cashier's are giving stock tips, even the oil change guy has stock tips ... today you hear PA's , editors , the stage hand , a guy in art dept , your neighbor ( soundman) all have Red reservations ... so perhaps they're just a bit up to there hearing about RED reservations ??

[Blue]

Huh? Are you reading my post? I'm asking a question. It's the camera department heads I was working with who have the negative attitudes about the camera. As a matter of fact, I ended up sounding like some fanboy touting what I haven't even personally seen either. They're the ones who shouldn't be saying what they said, so how do you dispel their comments? How do you instill confidence in something without asking people to simply "trust" that everything will come up roses? This is still business, and $17K is still $17K last I heard. I for one don't have that kind of cash lying around. Although I realize a lot of people certainly do, I would still imagine people will rent the cameras. Production companies for instance rarely own their own equipment (HVX's are affordable, but people still rent them). I merely presented a suggestion as a way to go about that.

Right. I'm glad that's sorted. Now...

[Gabriel Beaudry]

I am not very happy with this slip. mine is 610 that means that ours has slipped a month, yet people ahead of me are getting 600 cameras. Can you include 10 more units in that schedule? I am sure you will say "no" because if you did it for me you would have to do it for others....it's just that a month is a pretty big deal.


I feel your pain obin.

[Seung Han]

I feel your pain obin.

LOL...601...suck it up! :)

I got months of that pain coming my way. Time to start writing again...:pinch:

[R Fogg]

#624: nooooooooooooo!

[Jannard]

I think it is fair to say that it pains me to delay anything. But it pains me more to have unhappy customers...

Jim

[Alex Wengert]

Happiness is a perceived notion. Perfection is absolute. Don't bow to perception. You if anyone else knows better than that.

[Eryc Tramonn]

" Did they really need trailers, PAs, catering, a Fisher, or the million other incidentals/expendables...no. A 14-hour day...hell no."

YES they do need it all ... if you think one person can pull off the same production value- then head on down to the ad agency and present you ad at 1/1000 the cost....

Jarred shot looks very good ... now lets have the same shot in a commercial .... now it needs to be shot on this day & during these hours , teh ad agency & client will have 6 persons there ... we need total of 3 cars , need to get permits to control the same road , have XY insurance , schedule police to control traffic , insurance might require stunt drivers , may only have a one 1 hr time window to get the shot , will need persons to clean the car ( dust it , clean off bird crap etc) , where do persons go to bathroom out there ? , food ? ... it's no longer a 2-4 person shoot ... so you say forget the crew, just steal the shot - well you tell the ad agency & client you're just going to go out and steal the shot and you'll show it to them later = not going to happen - you gotta to do it all by the book ( permits , insurance etc ) ..
do you think local ads are only bad because they are shot on SD video ? switch the SD to HD or 35mm you think they'll be any better ? i don't think so ....

"It's the camera department heads I was working with who have the negative attitudes about the camera. As a matter of fact, I ended up sounding like some fanboy touting what I haven't even personally seen either."

just maybe this is like the big stock years ... you know where you go to the gas pump, grocery store , shoe store and the cashier's are giving stock tips, even the oil change guy has stock tips ... today you hear PA's , editors , the stage hand , a guy in art dept , your neighbor ( soundman) all have Red reservations ... so perhaps they're just a bit up to there hearing about RED reservations ??


Jarred steals the shot, puts together the entire spot that his buddy at XYZ production company (or ad agency) tipped him on, and then he submits a finished promo. Even if he shot completely on spec, so what? If they like it, they like it. I know this won't completely demolish the good ol' boy network, and open the system to new comers, but it will make us a lot more visible. Maybe impossible to ignore in some cases.

If they then want you to reshoot the exact same commercial (music video/feature/whatever), but only this time they want you to spend 10 times as much money and time...well, that'd be fine by me. Just make sure my check is in the mail. The point is, sooner or later, tools like this are going to make it very possible for anyone with time and know-how to compete in this arena. I think some people feel a tad threatened by that. And believe me, I have a real soft spot for all the talented grips, gaffers, dps, caterers et al out there. But that doesn't change the fact that amazing things are possible without all that.

I've done what people said I shouldn't have been able to do without all that, and yet managed to get the images I was after. Now that RED One is here, I'm only going to get better, and the resolution is there to do whatever I'd like - be it FX work or narrative with an eye toward theatrical.

[Eryc Tramonn]

Jim, my question still remains. I get that you're not out to screw with your customers. By the same turn, I'm not out to screw with you. But I would like an answer. Maybe this is something you've dealt with so many times over it's banal, but it's new to me. Point me in the right direction, and I'll read your philosophy on marketing and the reason for reservations in another thread, or wherever.

I don't know how else to say this, so I'm going to be very plain: I think the camera is sweet; I plan to purchase one.

So fanboys, my goal is not to sully the capabilities of this machine or the man behind it, I just want straight answers.

[Martin Ludwig]

so now we know what we need to know and the rumours are gone. It would be fine if we can get some more pictures of the camera right now so we can use the waiting time for our marketing campaign.
All the beautiful pictures on the red website are not downloadable. the posters are nice, but we need the newest pictures of the camera !

[Justin Kirchhoff]

I'm very optimistic about this whole process, but I'm interested to see if any of the December shipping dates will be valid considering it will be the holiday rush time. I hope no RED's will be mysteriously "lost" in the mail. It's amazing how much mail fraud happens around Christmas time.

[number6]

All I'm saying is, I didn't see anything done on the set that anyone else could not pull off without all the extra accoutrements. The operative adjectival clause in the statement you quoted would be "TALENTED helmers." It's going to take trained professionals to act as one man bands, and pull off the impossible. It's a duanting task, and most WILL fail. I realize this camera is simply a tool, but it's a tool that is going to level the playing field from the acquistion standpoint. It's still up to us in the end to come with the ideas, stories and other intangibles that make a film great. Only a moron doesn't get that concept at this point, but thanks for thinking highly of me.

Did Jarred have an art dept, or anything else shooting the driving shots? I doubt it. I'm not saying that is a finished commercial, but it's a damn good starting point, and one that wouldn't cost anything to acquire and bring back to tweak in the lab.

Granted, I was intentionally being overly simplistic when I mentioned three-point lighting, and my goal is not to push anyone out. It's simply to make a place for myself. Right now, the industry is mired in the bullshit of an age old caste system, but that's going to give way. And having the ability to shoot, and finish with the same resolutions as the heavy-hitters puts immense amounts of power in the indie's hands. We're bound to see more talented filmmakers arise, but by the same token, we're also guaranteed to see an exponential jump in trite filmic examples as well (irrespective of how well they look).

But I digress. That's not really the point of the post.

SEDITION! TUH-REASON!....THIS KIND OF PREACHING MUST BE STOPPED! TAKE HIM TO THE GALLOWS! OFF WITH HIS HEAD! Oh, and trim his toe nails too...

[Obin Olson]

thing is I have 8 commercials that i have not promised but I sure had hoped I could shoot on red...even delaying the things to see if it would "happen" in Nov as the schedule had said..awwwww anyway I guess I can't do a thing about it...:) :(

[Greg M]

SEDITION! TUH-REASON!....THIS KIND OF PREACHING MUST BE STOPPED! TAKE HIM TO THE GALLOWS! OFF WITH HIS HEAD! Oh, and trim his toe nails too...

Let him dream! Truth is, the gonzo producer has always been around doing things differently. I doubt this will ever replace the mainstream way of doing things. Red is just another tool to assist artists in their jobs. The system has been in place now for over 100 years.

Probably not a bad idea though to CUT OUT HIS TONGUE...before someone starts believing this blasphemy and joins his revolution.:wink: :wink:

[number6]

Let him dream! Truth is, the gonzo producer has always been around doing things differently. I doubt this will ever replace the mainstream way of doing things. Red is just another tool to assist artists in their jobs. The system has been in place now for over 100 years.

Probably not a bad idea though to CUT OUT HIS TONGUE...before someone starts believing this blasphemy and joins his revolution. http://www.reduser.net/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif
Wink

fsstt uh mmmssss upahuhgize... pop! there... I've got my tongue out of my cheek and can talk more plainly now. In my post, I was being facetious.

[Kjetil Haugen]

I feel your pain obin.

And I feel for ya! I got lucky, though. Could just as easily been 200-599, and I'd be out of the Nov race also.

So unless things change again: 600 - How do I love thee? Let me count the ways!

[albert rudnicki]

No Christmas for me...

[Jan Reiff]

"imitate the walk of nature. its secret is patience."

(Ralph Waldo Emerson)

[donatello b]

"The point is, sooner or later, tools like this are going to make it very possible for anyone with time and know-how to compete in this arena"

that has been here for years and persons have been creating "spec spots " since 50's ... but the problem today is most create spec spots not for a product but to promote themselves ... IMO they are not spec spots they are really "show spots " with Joe Smith as Director or DP for their reel - they never send it to a ad agency ... most do have good production values ... true spec spots are sent into ad agency's and the agency doesn't judge them by what it was shot on - it's the IDEA/script not the production values ... they could care less if you shot on VHS or 35mm - they're looking at the IDEA - they are not going to air it ...

just like any project it all comes down to the SCRIPT ...

if you want to compete - you do it ( at anytime ) ... or you wait till you get the " thing" you think will let you compete - either way at some point you got to get out there on the field ....

"I know this won't completely demolish the good ol' boy network, and open the system to new comers,"

hollywood , ad agency , talent scouts , good ole boy network and many more are ALWAYS looking for new talent ( directors , editors, DP's , actors/actress , producers, gaffers, crew etc ) .. they always have their eyes/ears open ...

[planet e]

it sounds like the people on this thread who are complaining the loudest are the ones who already have access to excellent cameras and are fully networked...i'd love to be positioned like those of you who are complaining about having to shoot on varicam or cinealta rigs for the next few months!...

i plan to make a lot of money between now and Christmas shooting and outputting every commercial project that i can get my hands on, with my little canon A1s, and then i plan to make a whole lot more money in 2008 taking advantage of every opportunity that i can find, with my lovely pair of REDS!

i can't thank you enough, jim, for putting quality first.

[Greg M]

fsstt uh mmmssss upahuhgize... pop! there... I've got my tongue out of my cheek and can talk more plainly now. In my post, I was being facetious.

and so was I...I'm not that slow. (hence the wink)

[number6]

and so was I...I'm not that slow. (hence the wink)

Ooops! My bad

[Hrvoje Simic]

Yeah, complaining is going to speed things up.

Go stand behind engineer's and programmer's back yelling "Faster!"
Than take that product for yourself.
I'll pass, thank you.

I can't believe the arrogancy of some people, thinking they are the only ones who have projects and clients on hold.



I think it is fair to say that it pains me to delay anything. But it pains me more to have unhappy customers...

Jim

Some people can relate to that, some just stand in line and grunt.

[Justin Kirchhoff]

Omen, very well stated, I totally agree with you. I want a quality product that doesn't only shoot great images, but can work in any sort of condition and have firmware that is bulletproof. Jim and the team can do it.

[Andrae Palmer]

Hmmph. I'm sold. I just don't want to deal with the delays and false expectations, so I'm waiting until the production cycle is a little more ironed out and there are more functioning units in the field.

I worked an industry gig yesterday shooting a commercial for Hidden Valley Ranch. Man. Talk about a waste of time, money and resources. Conventional Hollywood kills me. I brought up the RED One to the camera department and all but got mocked off the set. Honestly though, fuck what they were talking about...and I mean that in the nicest possible way. I can smell a revolution a mile away, they can't help their own myopia. It was just so irritating to witness people fumbling about, not really shooting in the most effective manner, yet reveling in hubris. And all this is shrouded in the false nicety that prevails with the above-the-liners. They are nice enough, but you can sense the self-importance. Hollywood. The day is coming when anyone with skill, and one of these cameras will be able to walk into an agency with the same footage we just spent over $100K capturing. The rub is the person with the RED One, who am I kidding, it's going to be me - anyway, this person will have done the same job in 1/3 the time, and 1/1000th the capital put into it. I'm really curious how the 'industry' is going to continue to justify the exorbitant salaries and excess of gear? Did they really need DIT...no. Did they really need trailers, PAs, catering, a Fisher, or the million other incidentals/expendables...no. A 14-hour day...hell no.

As an aside, I remember when I was at USC and bought one of the first DVD players, and recall a professor and other students guffawing at my choice. "That is never going to make it as a format," is literally what they said. Idiots. RED One is about to make history repeat itself. This camera is going to help put some talented helmers on the map, whereas you'll be able to completely bypass the rigid hierarchy currently in place. Anyone with basic knowledge of three-point lighting will be able to vie for the same jobs and produce the images everyone seems to covet. Look out world. The good old boy network is going to have a hard time continuing to outlay large chunks of capital when you'll continually have a new batch of hungry indies waiting for their turn at bat. Obviously, this is good and bad. But you can imagine that people will be willing to trump the best efforts of production teams for a fraction of the cost. A great example is Jarred's shot out the car window. His method cost nothing, but in the same scenario with a DP, you'd have rigging all over the outside of the car, friggin' hostess trays...retarded.


______
My films, they bring all the girls to the yard. I could teach you, but I'd have to charge.


You sound naive with these statements. I think you are looking at things from a "functional" point of view. I used to look at things this way. But in so doing you are forgetting the primary motivations of most humans. Which I would classify as "social". Now the word "professional" doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the capacity of being able to complete the job with good or even the best results. For example my neighbor is very good at making beats. He works from his bedroom with his computer on top of his dresser. Someone asked if I knew anyone that builds beats. I said my neighbor was very good at building beats. They asked if he had a studio... I said he has a bedroom studio. They asked if I knew anyone else.. LOL. They never did get in touch with my neighbor. So here you have a person that is qualified for the job but is not getting any work.

So you may have a Red camera and be highly "functional" but there are many other pieces to the puzzle in maintaining "professional" business relationships. Not having catering may seem to others has not being professional on your part. Doing a one man job irregardless of the results may also seem to be not "professional".

I am in no way in support of the current state of things but it is something that I've learnt to look pass and to work with the social thinking. So now I have a bunch of extra "symbols" laying around. Everyone thinks I'm "professional".

[Obin Olson]

on the subject of "spec" spots..may fav thing to do is have an agency say..."well we like your work but we don't see this xyz style on your reel" then I turn around and shoot the entire spot from provided boards, 100% "Nail" the creative directors "vision" and get the work.

But that is me. and one way to work, not always the best! :)

[Obin Olson]

"I worked an industry gig yesterday shooting a commercial for Hidden Valley Ranch. Man. Talk about a waste of time, money and resources. Conventional Hollywood kills me. I brought up the RED One to the camera department and all but got mocked off the set. Honestly though, fuck what they were talking about...and I mean that in the nicest possible way. I can smell a revolution a mile away, they can't help their own myopia. It was just so irritating to witness people fumbling about, not really shooting in the most effective manner, yet reveling in hubris. And all this is shrouded in the false nicety that prevails with the above-the-liners. They are nice enough, but you can sense the self-importance. Hollywood. The day is coming when anyone with skill, and one of these cameras will be able to walk into an agency with the same footage we just spent over $100K capturing. The rub is the person with the RED One, who am I kidding, it's going to be me - anyway, this person will have done the same job in 1/3 the time, and 1/1000th the capital put into it. I'm really curious how the 'industry' is going to continue to justify the exorbitant salaries and excess of gear? Did they really need DIT...no. Did they really need trailers, PAs, catering, a Fisher, or the million other incidentals/expendables...no. A 14-hour day...hell no."


Here is the thing, don't YOU want to make a good living? of course you can do things on the cheap, that is what SPEC work and making "Pilots" or testing new ideas is for. When it comes to ad work, why not get paid, and paid well. I think you will learn this over time. Is it worth making some else's vision if it's not worth your time?

[filip kovcin]

To be honest, I haven't been this inspired since I was in film school a long time ago. ...

Steve

i have exactly the same feelings!

filip

[Obin Olson]

"hollywood , ad agency , talent scouts , good ole boy network and many more are ALWAYS looking for new talent ( directors , editors, DP's , actors/actress , producers, gaffers, crew etc ) .. they always have their eyes/ears open ...[/QUOTE]

A fact I have seen firsthand!

don't worry about RED "opening" doors..it will not, your skillz will, gotta have mad skillz bro, bottom line.

[Chris Parker]

RED is a new tool in the film business. Period. It will not make a bad shooter good. It will not make bad lighting look good. It will not make a shoot with a measley art department budget any better.

It will not get you into shooting A-List commercials. You are dreaming if you think it will.

It is a tool. I am very hopeful that this new tool gets quickly accepted by these very people that you mock. Because that is what is needed. Not your naive attitude that these skilled DP's, if they reject RED, will suddenly be losing out on the next Nike commercial to the likes of 'what's-his-name' with a RED. Not..gonna...happen.

The game is the game, and it must be played in order to make it to the top, outside the rare exceptions. In general though, I am gonna work my ass off to convince the existing DPs and 1st ACs I already work with that RED is a viable new tool that they should be using. I see far more benefit in this than the naive attitude of RED or nothing. Ultimately, if I go in with that closed-mindedness, they won't listen anyways. That, and I value their opinion greatly.

People who think the big budgets, the PAs, the trailers, the Starbucks runs, the stuntmen, the nice sets, etc. etc. etc. are gonna be replaced by RED are just plain silly.

[Obin Olson]

way to lay it Skippy :) what's your line of work look like? Do you direct?

BTW I can remember when the same was said of the HVX..."it's gonna open doors etc etc...:)

But don't you think it will make a good gaffer look even better?? and a guy that can color time like the best, have more range?

[Chris Parker]

[QUOTE=obin;88465]way to lay it Skippy :) what's your line of work look like? Do you direct?
QUOTE]

Nope, don't direct. Don't shoot either. I am a video assist guy, who is moving into the world of RED data management and on-set workflow. Work almost exclusively in high-end commercials. Lots of days on set each month. Also partner in a rental house that rents out gear.

[ATF]

If you are talking NAB 2007, you are looking at March 2008.

Jim

Thanks, Jim!

Best,

ATF

[Obin Olson]

coolness...RED is going to be a data centric flow no doubt....gonna have to deal with the data, keep it safe, and make sure you don't loose it!! :)

[TimPipher]

If you are talking NAB 2007, you are looking at March 2008.

Jim

I still don't understand this. The updated schedule says reservations through 1,600 will be delivered January 30. Weren't at least early NAB orders under 1,600?

[Eryc Tramonn]

"hollywood , ad agency , talent scouts , good ole boy network and many more are ALWAYS looking for new talent ( directors , editors, DP's , actors/actress , producers, gaffers, crew etc ) .. they always have their eyes/ears open ...

A fact I have seen firsthand!

don't worry about RED "opening" doors..it will not, your skillz will, gotta have mad skillz bro, bottom line.[/QUOTE]

Guys, if you really read my posts, you'll see that's what I'm saying too. However, the addition of the RED One to the toolset is only going to make acknowledgment that much easier for those that have the requisite skills. In the wrong hands, the camera is no more a magic talisman than a Leatherman. Believe me, I GET IT.

Further, I've put in my time, and I'd like to think I'm no slouch either. However, there is something more to "making" it in this business than simply going out and delivering innovative, or "cool" visuals. There's a networking side, and a money side just like any other. And if you can't bring money to people's pockets...forget about it. If you're a video director, forget trying to get signed with @Radical.Media unless you've got:

1. connects with a Dave Meyers, or someone over there
2. have a ton of contacts with music vid commissioners at labels
3. are best friends with a director's rep
4. are best friends with a currently signed and hot director

Again, I'm using the above as a simplistic view of what one has to contend with. There are countless production companies with a name you could venture toward, but in the end the same will be true for most. I try not to speak in absolutes, but the odds are cleary not in our favor. With or without RED One. Yeah, I get it.

[Eryc Tramonn]

"hollywood , ad agency , talent scouts , good ole boy network and many more are ALWAYS looking for new talent ( directors , editors, DP's , actors/actress , producers, gaffers, crew etc ) .. they always have their eyes/ears open ...

A fact I have seen firsthand!

don't worry about RED "opening" doors..it will not, your skillz will, gotta have mad skillz bro, bottom line.[/QUOTE]

Obin, seeing you seem to have an inside track on all these agencies and prod. companies that are so actively looking for new talent - why don't you clue the rest of us in? I'm really dying to hear this one. Where are you signed? Do you have work on-line now?

[Eryc Tramonn]

RED is a new tool in the film business. Period. It will not make a bad shooter good. It will not make bad lighting look good. It will not make a shoot with a measley art department budget any better.

It will not get you into shooting A-List commercials. You are dreaming if you think it will.

It is a tool. I am very hopeful that this new tool gets quickly accepted by these very people that you mock. Because that is what is needed. Not your naive attitude that these skilled DP's, if they reject RED, will suddenly be losing out on the next Nike commercial to the likes of 'what's-his-name' with a RED. Not..gonna...happen.

The game is the game, and it must be played in order to make it to the top, outside the rare exceptions. In general though, I am gonna work my ass off to convince the existing DPs and 1st ACs I already work with that RED is a viable new tool that they should be using. I see far more benefit in this than the naive attitude of RED or nothing. Ultimately, if I go in with that closed-mindedness, they won't listen anyways. That, and I value their opinion greatly.

People who think the big budgets, the PAs, the trailers, the Starbucks runs, the stuntmen, the nice sets, etc. etc. etc. are gonna be replaced by RED are just plain silly.


For someone who doesn't even direct, you sure have a strong opinion about how to accomplish the task. I've done it...several times over...have beaten the odds...am not signed...do NOT deal with bullshit...and have had spots on MTV.

Fuck the system. Screw pretentious film snobs, that can only work with the latest steadicam, and need the bureaucracy of a Hollywood-style set to feel secure. I've watched people boondoggle, and attempt to ingratiate themselves with the next person up the totem all day on those sets and it's sickening. I have no desire to be a part of that.

Do I want to make money? Sure, who doesn't? Do I want to sell my soul to do so? No thank you. Do I use a similar hierarchy on my sets? Yes, I do, however it is much more streamlined. I'm not afraid to empty garbage, paint a cyc, or do some art direction if needed. I'll also assist with lighting, and camera to the limited degree that I can. And I don't think my films have been complete failures. They represent the best effort I could muster given what I had to work with.

That's right. Now that may or may not be naive, but I've got stripes at this point. I've worked with some very talented artists, and the system you speak so highly of sure doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot for any one of us.

I shoot. All I'm saying is, for the price point, the RED One is an excellent acquistion tool. That's all it is, and all I'm saying. Up to this point, I've shot Super 16, DVCpro 50 and DVCpro HD. Now I'll be able to step up to resolutions I couldn't touch before due to cost restrictions, and have the flexibility to shot various formats too.

If my skill set is lacking...there's no camera that's going to mask that fact. I GET IT.

[Joel Kaye]

Music Vids - Again, I'm using the above as a simplistic view of what one has to contend with.

Probably a good example. That biz is all about living within that crowd. I saw a really good video from a guy who shot a $25k 35mm music video as a demo piece and he couldn't even get representation.

The way to make your break there is go right past all those people and start shooting all the up and coming bands for free and making kicka$$ stuff. Then the bands trust you, like you, request you and it's over... you just jumped past all the BS because the band is the client and they so who's cool and who's not. You'll get representation and get in the game.

You have to make your own connections because you're not putting someone else who's doing the job just fine right now out of work. Even if they cost 10x as much.

Hollywood needs talent like Major League Baseball needs talent. They're always starving for another Barry Bonds. But there are TONS of guys who are great at the game already playing.

[Eryc Tramonn]

Probably a good example. That biz is all about living within that crowd. I saw a really good video from a guy who shot a $25k 35mm music video as a demo piece and he couldn't even get representation.

The way to make your break there is go right past all those people and start shooting all the up and coming bands for free and making kicka$$ stuff. Then the bands trust you, like you, request you and it's over... you just jumped past all the BS because the band is the client and they so who's cool and who's not. You'll get representation and get in the game.

You have to make your own connections because you're not putting someone else who's doing the job just fine right now out of work. Even if they cost 10x as much.

Hollywood needs talent like Major League Baseball needs talent. They're always starving for another Barry Bonds. But there are TONS of guys who are great at the game already playing.


Finally, someone who gets it. Geez.

[Joel Kaye]

Finally, someone who gets it. Geez.

A guy I know made it pretty well in the music vids. He's done something like 60 of 'em for label bands. But ya know what? He can't get a break into narrative film. And his music videos (all 35mm) are truly the good stuff. He's dying to make a feature but producers won't touch him. Or any other music video director. The word is out that they can't transition to long form well. They party like rockstars and tell stories the same way.

I don't know... you just gotta find what you really love, make friends and play artistically well with others and be in the top 5% or so of the talent pool.

Or make your own content and become a very good marketer of it.

[Eryc Tramonn]

A guy I know made it pretty well in the music vids. He's done something like 60 of 'em for label bands. But ya know what? He can't get a break into narrative film. And his music videos (all 35mm) are truly the good stuff. He's dying to make a feature but producers won't touch him. Or any other music video director. The word is out that they can't transition to long form well. They party like rockstars and tell stories the same way.

I don't know... you just gotta find what you really love, make friends and play artistically well with others and be in the top 5% or so of the talent pool.

Or make your own content and become a very good marketer of it.

That's exactly what I'm saying. You can use the RED One to AUGMENT whatever abilities you already have, or are fostering. It's certainly not going to make me a less capable filmmaker. And if I have to continue doing it on my own...what a way to do it on my own.

Should established H-Town start to notice and want to appropriate what I'm doing...look out. And I have stirred the pot; you'll be seeing more of me. I guess I'll be one of those idiosyncratic directors that studios and dev heads are afraid of. Fuck em. :angry03: They don't give a shit about any of us, the people in the trenches, outside of our ability to turn dollars for them. That's the thing to remember. At the end of the day, we are all merely commodities. I actually care about the people I work with. If I could go in my pocket to make things easier for ANYONE on my set, you can bet I would. And I'll work right next to whoever's toiling.

My point is, I don't need them to make films, and I'm not waiting for them to "greenlight" me. If I can't have the extras that come with big budget studio fare, I'm still going to bring something you can't ignore.

[Joel Kaye]

It's certainly not going to make me a less capable filmmaker.
My point is, I don't need them to make films, and I'm not waiting for them to "greenlight" me. If I can't have the extras that come with big budget studio fare, I'm still going to bring something you can't ignore.

Yeah - that's the RED attitude.

That's what RED offers... we can sit around and learn how to pull focus and compose 35mm style and play with lighting all day long. If we're really smart we'll get actors together and shoot, shoot, shoot. Edit, edit, edit. We're going to get good. It'll take time, but as Obin said, we'll be able to do it cheap and fast.

When it's great we can go direct to the people on the Internet and verify it's great.

Hollywood has been watching for hot stuff on the Internet. Not the clueless backslappers on bloated sets. People in development and acquisitions are watching. People at the talent agencys are watching.

If you're a hit on the net and it's wide appeal Hollywood or Cable style content you're going to get a phone call. They know. It's their job to know.

[Eryc Tramonn]

Yeah - that's the RED attitude.

That's what RED offers... we can sit around and learn how to pull focus and compose 35mm style and play with lighting all day long. If we're really smart we'll get actors together and shoot, shoot, shoot. Edit, edit, edit. We're going to get good. It'll take time, but as Obin said, we'll be able to do it cheap and fast.

When it's great we can go direct to the people on the Internet and verify it's great.

Hollywood has been watching for hot stuff on the Internet. Not the clueless backslappers on bloated sets. People in development and acquisitions are watching. People at the talent agencys are watching.

If you're a hit on the net and it's wide appeal Hollywood or Cable style content you're going to get a phone call. They know. It's their job to know.

Thank you Joel, you're brilliant man. Really. That's the attitude that will put you ahead of everyone else.

[Zack Birlew]

Meh, no problems here. This delay just opens things up a bit for software and it gets me closer to more RED accessories! :)

[Obin Olson]

A fact I have seen firsthand!

don't worry about RED "opening" doors..it will not, your skillz will, gotta have mad skillz bro, bottom line.

Obin, seeing you seem to have an inside track on all these agencies and prod. companies that are so actively looking for new talent - why don't you clue the rest of us in? I'm really dying to hear this one. Where are you signed? Do you have work on-line now?[/QUOTE]

Nice jab buddy. I have been making a living doing production for 7 years. I own a production company, have done work for many of the networks, produced a feature that was on screens in 8 states, have mobile content on platforms around the world and over 2 million views on our comedy content on the broadband platform, have won a bronze pencil at The One Show in NY, nominated for a Daytime Emmy award etc and so on.... signed? don't need it, work never stops coming in and I see no reason to give away 10-20% of the budget for stuff with an agency ....:w00t: :w00t:

how about yourself?

watch who you piss on, I could be your next client, and you could be mine. lets keep it professional around here shall we? :)

[Joel Kaye]

I could be your next client, and you could be mine. lets keep it professional around here shall we? :)

Speaking of pro, I've always drooled over "Obin's HD Tornado" that's a cool shot. Have you ever posted a tutorial or BTS on that shot? Kinda curious if you comp'd real elements or used CG?

[Eryc Tramonn]

Obin, seeing you seem to have an inside track on all these agencies and prod. companies that are so actively looking for new talent - why don't you clue the rest of us in? I'm really dying to hear this one. Where are you signed? Do you have work on-line now?

Nice jab buddy. I have been making a living doing production for 7 years. I own a production company, have done work for many of the networks, produced a feature that was on screens in 8 states, have mobile content on platforms around the world and over 2 million views on our comedy content on the broadband platform, have won a bronze pencil at The One Show in NY, nominated for a Daytime Emmy award etc and so on.... signed? don't need it, work never stops coming in and I see no reason to give away 10-20% of the budget for stuff with an agency ....:w00t: :w00t:

how about yourself?

watch who you piss on, I could be your next client, and you could be mine. lets keep it professional around here shall we? :)[/QUOTE]


Nice man. You really made me laugh out loud...for real. Well, as you mention, you should take your own advice. I'm not the one running around talking about who is, and isn't naive. I fully realize I could be your next client, or you could be mine. I don't think my posts smack of someone who's completely clueless. Maybe slightly, but hell I'm still managing somehow. If I have to cut corners to put my projects together on a shoestring, so what...as long as what happens in that little frame is engaging and the form reinforces the content - who cares how I got it to look like that? If I can do the same job without DIT, runners, and 20 camera assistants picking ass all day...well. When the time is right, I'll be partially happy to let some sycophant run and grab me a latte.

There's no shame in my game. I'm a relative newbie. Only have a smattering of video work under my belt, but I never pretended to be all high and mighty either. If you were reading my posts, you'd realize I've already said I'm not signed anywhere. I'm an indie and proud of my ability to have proven myself without the nepotism, or glad-handing. As you seem to be.

Anyway, that's an impressive list of accolades. Congratulations on all that. I have even more respect seeing you were able to accomplish all of it without becoming a victim of vampirism.

[Eryc Tramonn]

Speaking of pro, I've always drooled over "Obin's HD Tornado" that's a cool shot. Have you ever posted a tutorial or BTS on that shot? Kinda curious if you comp'd real elements or used CG?

Obin, I've seen your stuff before in my escapades on the web. I often ferret out the latest technologies, and also keep track of who's doing what, and will reverse engineer technique whenever possible. Especially those that have evinced an ability to assimilate techniques. IMO, that's what puts you lightyears ahead of what the standard guy running around crazy with a camera is doing. RED or no RED.

Reverse engineering shots helps keep me fresh and sharp, so don't think it's just about being a hack. I feel that's one of the best ways to learn outside of watching tutorials and reading instructional materials. Physical production is so costly, and I am not always out shooting, so I run mock setups in my head, and love to look at how others handle FX integration. Anyway, I digress.

When I saw your tornado comp, I remember being impressed and thinking it was a good example of using what was on hand to create a convincing shot. Wasn't there a time where you had all the plates up used to created the final composite?

[Eryc Tramonn]

Speaking of pro, I've always drooled over "Obin's HD Tornado" that's a cool shot. Have you ever posted a tutorial or BTS on that shot? Kinda curious if you comp'd real elements or used CG?

As a matter of fact, if memory serves me correct, I was thinking about particle FX when I created one of my music videos because I was influenced by that clip. As random as it sounds, but that's just how small the world is. There's no such thing as coincidence. That's for damn sure.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

SORRY I dont know anythhing about my serial number or anything about my order and how i link it to delivery schedule .
where am i in it ? some help please ?

[Obin Olson]

um..what was the jab for in the first place then? ..
I have worked my ASS off to get to the level I am now at, every project every budget.

It's ALL about the work. end of story. Red is an awesome tool, but still only a tool.

And to answer your question:
"Obin, seeing you seem to have an inside track on all these agencies and prod. companies that are so actively looking for new talent - why don't you clue the rest of us in?"

When you start to create work that the above likes, and they find it, you too will get the call.

[Eryc Tramonn]

um..what was the jab for in the first place then? ..
I have worked my ASS off to get to the level I am now at, every project every budget.

It's ALL about the work. end of story. Red is an awesome tool, but still only a tool.

And to answer your question:
"Obin, seeing you seem to have an inside track on all these agencies and prod. companies that are so actively looking for new talent - why don't you clue the rest of us in?"

When you start to create work that the above likes, and they find it, you too will get the call.


Dude, I give up. It's like you're not really reading my posts. Not only did I just compliment you, but I keep [very plainly] saying RED is merely a tool as well. What don't you get?

And I have gotten calls thank you. One in particular came from Spielberg and Burnett for the show On the Lot, and another from Drew Barrymore's Flower Films...not that either of those is saying much... But anyway, I'm not really trying to go there with you. You're not the only one out here hustling and capable, ya know? Don't go assuming just because you haven't heard of me [YET] that I'm nobody.

The jab, as I also wrote, was because you were insinuating that my comments were completely green simply because I don't subscribe to soundstage politics and standard crewing practices. Call me another Rebel Without a Crew, I guess. And yes, that's a VERY pointed allusion to none other than Robert Rodriguez. People thought he was crazy too.

In the RIGHT HANDS, that TOOL is going to enable some really amazing things. In MY HANDS that TOOL is going to enable some really amazing things. It'll definitely help slice through the bullshit. Not that you couldn't shoot great stories and characters with a $100 Handycam, and in some cases maybe that's the way to go.

However, for the most 'professional' filmmaking applications, you're going to want the highest res you can capture and post. Why would you want to shoot anything else if RED is available, and for the price? Kinda like when hard drives where expensive and space was scarce. We had to be more selective about what we digitized, but now a lot of people just capture everything. The attitude is, why not? It's cheap - it's there - go for it? You never know when the happy accident will occur.

[Eryc Tramonn]

um..what was the jab for in the first place then? ..
I have worked my ASS off to get to the level I am now at, every project every budget.

It's ALL about the work. end of story. Red is an awesome tool, but still only a tool.

And to answer your question:
"Obin, seeing you seem to have an inside track on all these agencies and prod. companies that are so actively looking for new talent - why don't you clue the rest of us in?"

When you start to create work that the above likes, and they find it, you too will get the call.

And I didn't realize who you were until I saw what joelnet posted about the tornado clip.

[Obin Olson]

If you like VFX I bet you would like to see a new ad our company just finished for national broadcast....I will post it on the hvx boards when we can show the public. It will also play on one of the Jumbotron screens in Times Square NY.

cheers!!

[Obin Olson]

Speaking of pro, I've always drooled over "Obin's HD Tornado" that's a cool shot. Have you ever posted a tutorial or BTS on that shot? Kinda curious if you comp'd real elements or used CG?

both dude, don't forget my brother is a full on CG master. it was a base plate using our studio as the subject in the shot, with comp elements of real and CG stuff in the frame.

Can't WAIT to try some of that type stuff with RED!!!!!

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

Ahem, to get back to the original post..:innocent:
I really think that RED should seriously consider emailing everyone who has placed a deposit with the information they need to understand what their timestamp means and where they are in the queue. I need that information and I know I am not alone. It could be as simple as: "your order lies in the range 1500-1750 and hence the estimated delivery date will be xxx. This is an estimate only, everything subject to change etc". I can understand why RED are unwilling to email an exact number, that's fine! But I cannot understand why they are unable to email us with this kind of information. Apart from anything else it makes a nonsense of Jim's post, as beyond 1500 the information he is giving us all is practically useless.

RED: Please email everyone who has placed a deposit with the information we need to figure out the delivery schedule.

Thank you.

[planet e]

with a few thousand reservations, that's a lot of work, to e-mail each user individually....

but our moderator jeff is going to try to give us weekly updates from reduser, which should help sift through the commentary to get to the crucial info....

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4812

[Paolo Tinari]

New years eve in L.A. for me then. I'm officialy open to invitations

[Eryc Tramonn]

Ahem, to get back to the original post..:innocent:
I really think that RED should seriously consider emailing everyone who has placed a deposit with the information they need to understand what their timestamp means and where they are in the queue. I need that information and I know I am not alone. It could be as simple as: "your order lies in the range 1500-1750 and hence the estimated delivery date will be xxx. This is an estimate only, everything subject to change etc". I can understand why RED are unwilling to email an exact number, that's fine! But I cannot understand why they are unable to email us with this kind of information. Apart from anything else it makes a nonsense of Jim's post, as beyond 1500 the information he is giving us all is practically useless.

RED: Please email everyone who has placed a deposit with the information we need to figure out the delivery schedule.

Thank you.


I'm with you. Don't get me wrong, I have become a HUGE supporter of Jim and crew, like so many others on this board, but there are a few outstanding issues I'm still not entirely comfortable with.

To place a reservation, and then contend with fluctuating dates and a dearth of information surrounding releases is unsettling to me. Obviously, that works for a lot of people, and I'm not judging anyone for their choice. I have asked Jim for his reason to go with reservations, especially in light of wavering production, and have not received an answer. I guess why waste time on an issue like that...it's already done, and now the concern is getting the camera done and fulfilling orders. That's fine.

It is curious to me though. I read somewhere that Jim had a level of regret after taking Oakley public, so I wonder why he'd do a similar move here with the camera? Not to imply that any of the reservation holders have direct control in back office matters at RED, but you can see where I'm going. You've got thousands of people wanting their gear, and wondering when it's coming. Yeah, you can get a full refund, but we don't want that. We want that camera, so you end up with a bunch of people constantly heckling for information and a tad salty when you have to shift deliverables. In the end, I chalk it up to savvy marketing. Obviously, there are other high resolution acquistion devices in dev out there (maybe none at this price point), but none have the following RED has manifested.

But if I put my cash on reserve, I know I would be one of those users out there asking every five seconds when my shipment is going to happen. And I realize how hard everyone is working to satisfy demand, so I don't want to feel like that. For me, at this point, it makes more sense to wait and let things play out.

I AM going to order a camera - for sure. But letting the dust and insane fervor of the release die down also seems prudent, and in the mean time I'll just have to shoot what's been available. I'm just a poor kid from southwest Louisana, and a grand is better in my stomach right now.

[Joel Kaye]

It is curious to me though. I read somewhere that Jim had a level of regret after taking Oakley public, so I wonder why he'd do a similar move here with the camera

Taking a company public and and being publicly open about your creation process are two totally different things.

Personally, I think RED gets as high a score as any company in my book for taking a complex new product to a market filled with artists. I think Harvard is going to be doing case studies on RED.

[Greg]

Thanks for the update, Jim. Much appreciated. ...Looks like I don't have to annoy the family trying to get 4K shots of the kids Christmas morning this year. They will thank you for that... Hehe.

What is really funny is you are most likely not joking about this :)

[donatello b]

i believe i read that RED would try to post something on time stamps when they had some time after they returned from IBC ( i think it was 2-3 weeks after ) BUT that was when shipping was running a bit more smooth ... as you can see they are very busy working out some production part problems and firmware builds so their attention is not on time stamps ....
when they catch up they'll put time into time stamps ...

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

with a few thousand reservations, that's a lot of work, to e-mail each user individually....

Aye it is.
Respect to Jim and the RED team, they have made a great product but they're not giving it away.. They are a company and we are customers. I've put down $2500, surely that would pay for one email. It would be cheaper on their time than having to field a phonecall from me; which I haven't done yet out of respect for the hard work that they are all doing.
It would really help me right now to have a ball park idea of where I am in the queue and Jim's post, for all it's good intentions, does not give me that.

[Eryc Tramonn]

Aye it is.
Respect to Jim and the RED team, they have made a great product but they're not giving it away.. They are a company and we are customers. I've put down $2500, surely that would pay for one email. It would be cheaper on their time than having to field a phonecall from me; which I haven't done yet out of respect for the hard work that they are all doing.
It would really help me right now to have a ball park idea of where I am in the queue and Jim's post, for all it's good intentions, does not give me that.

Joelnet, the post above me illustrates what I'm referring to. I realize taking a company public, and making "public" decisions are two different things. However by doing the latter, you're giving your customers a measure of control in some respects, but picking and choosing which questions are worthy of an answer.

It's just kinda weird to me. It's kinda like: "Yeah, we'll take your reservation, now sit back and hold on. I'll let you know where we're headed when we get there, or when I feel like it." I mean really...people are BEGGING to see footage. WTH? Shouldn't that be supplied readily? I mean many of the people making requests had the faith to put their dollars behind something a lot of people wouldn't even entertain as a real possibility.

Some people are alright with that, but I can't do that - as much as I like what I'm seeing image wise. I'll just let things play out.

[David Dennis]

I don't think it's that reasonable to ask for individualized emails from RED's rather overworked staff, but since the email and the purchase date should both be in a database somewhere, it would take a good database programmer maybe an hour or two to take the emails, come up with a serial number and a delivery date, and automatically email that to everyone who has ordered. I know I could do it easily enough given that information :-).

D

[planet e]

Some people are alright with that, but I can't do that - as much as I like what I'm seeing image wise. I'll just let things play out.

...and that is exactly why choice is good!

glad you're comfortable with yours! i'm thrilled with mine. it's early enough to get my camera sooner than later, but late enough for a few of the kinks to get worked out by these industrious early adopters.

i don't think i'd miss a thousand dollars as much as i would miss playing my tiny part in the drama....

fergus, if you have a specific question that isn't being answered here, you really should go ahead and e-mail or call kelly or RED. i've had pretty good luck with responses to both phone and e-mail--not always perfect, but i think they try pretty hard on their end. as long as you're not badgering them, i think it is perfectly fair to directly request information that you can't find online.

[Eryc Tramonn]

...and that is exactly why choice is good!

glad you're comfortable with yours! i'm thrilled with mine. it's early enough to get my camera sooner than later, but late enough for a few of the kinks to get worked out by these industrious early adopters.

i don't think i'd miss a thousand dollars as much as i would miss playing my tiny part in the drama....

fergus, if you have a specific question that isn't being answered here, you really should go ahead and e-mail or call kelly or RED. i've had pretty good luck with responses to both phone and e-mail--not always perfect, but i think they try pretty hard on their end. as long as you're not badgering them, i think it is perfectly fair to directly request information that you can't find online.

Yeah, why is it that every time someone says something that doesn't fit perfectly with the group mentality here, they are instantly lambasted or stoned for their perceived dissidence?

I'm not even saying your choice to put a reservation down is a bad thing. Honestly, I don't care how you choose. I was voicing MY own opinion and the reason for MY own choice. Nothing to do with anyone else.

And in truth, what difference does it make at this point? We're so far down the queue, why would anyone need to put a reservation in at this point anyway? Why not just wait until production ramps to create a surplus? Or will the cameras always be produced on a made-to-order basis?

Just questions. Fanboys please calm down. I'm not trying to challenge anyone, or Precious. As I've said, I'm already sold. I'm intend to buy one as well. But it's weird...it's almost like if I ask too many unpopular questions, I might insult the camera gods, and they may not sell me one. Have to be careful what I say around here. :)

[I Bloom]

I don't know what I'm going to do about this schedule change! I met these Nigerian guys online who said if I can ship a RED to Lagos by November 30th they'll send me back two RED's in January. NOW IT'S ALL MESSED UP!

On a serious note, I am pretty frustrated. But I think its mostly because I really wanted to take part in the debugging of the camera. A camera that isn't quite working is more exciting to me than one that has all the kinks worked out. I'm assuming I don't represent the general population. I have RED engineering envy. I'm not expecting immediate clients from my camera so the idea that it's not fully working is apealling to me.

December and January are very slow times for my work. I was considering skipping town this year, as New York can be pretty miserable. I think RED is going to be very good as a New Years resolution. Unfortunately, if it gets delayed again, I'm going to take a hit tax wise.

December 30th is a weird delivery date. It means people working through Christmas? That makes me have low expectations for that date. I don't want you to deliver on that date actually, I want you to go home and hang some stockings or light kinara candles or whatever.... what I'm really trying to say is a hard and fast date is better than an early date.

I noticed something a little while back, and that was a clip that Jim put up from a racetrack. It was noted that there was no LCD or EVF used. I'm either reading into that or that speaks volumes about the reality on the ground in "REDland" and reflects positively on them.

IBloom

[planet e]

now that you raised the issue, ibloom, i'm kind of wondering about that december 30th delivery date as well. i mean, i'm perfectly happy to get my camera then, but it seems a little tough to be whippin' and ridin' the production team at that time of year. i'd be ok if they took a break, spread the holiday love around, and delivered mine a week or two later....

[ChrisLyon]

I think RED is going to be very good as a New Years resolution.
*cymbal*

[Jannard]

I think we can catch up pretty quickly... teething problems are usually short lived.

Jim

[Eryc Tramonn]

I think we can catch up pretty quickly... teething problems are usually short lived.

Jim

Mr. Jannard,

What's good sir? First, thank you for building this ridiculous ass camera. Unreal it is. Get's my blood percolating every time I think of the possibilities.

Anyway, can you please tip me on something? I want this camera, however, at the moment, I'm poor as hell. However, I'm working with some fairly large individuals who have taken a liking to me and a script I have. If I should be so blessed, and get to take the project into production, I'd want to shoot RED...realistically though, that wouldn't happen until at some point in '08 at the earliest. Obviously, the production could/would rent if it came down to that, but I still want one for myself regardless.

So, in light of where this camera is going to go, is it in my best interest to put in a reservation at this point? At this point, should I wait until production ramps to create a surplus? Or will the cameras always be produced on a made-to-order basis from reservation payments?

Thanks.

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

I don't know what I'm going to do about this schedule change! I met these Nigerian guys online who said if I can ship a RED to Lagos by November 30th they'll send me back two RED's in January. NOW IT'S ALL MESSED UP!

On a serious note, I am pretty frustrated. But I think its mostly because I really wanted to take part in the debugging of the camera. A camera that isn't quite working is more exciting to me than one that has all the kinks worked out. I'm assuming I don't represent the general population. I have RED engineering envy. I'm not expecting immediate clients from my camera so the idea that it's not fully working is apealling to me.

December and January are very slow times for my work. I was considering skipping town this year, as New York can be pretty miserable. I think RED is going to be very good as a New Years resolution. Unfortunately, if it gets delayed again, I'm going to take a hit tax wise.

December 30th is a weird delivery date. It means people working through Christmas? That makes me have low expectations for that date. I don't want you to deliver on that date actually, I want you to go home and hang some stockings or light kinara candles or whatever.... what I'm really trying to say is a hard and fast date is better than an early date.

I noticed something a little while back, and that was a clip that Jim put up from a racetrack. It was noted that there was no LCD or EVF used. I'm either reading into that or that speaks volumes about the reality on the ground in "REDland" and reflects positively on them.

IBloom

Ugg, funny but I had that happen to me :( I was selling my XL-1s on ebay and someone used Buy-it-Now and wanted me to ship to Lagos, Nigeria. Now I'm not an idiot, so I immediately contacted ebay, told this guy to screw off, etc., but what a pain in the butt. It ruined my auction so I had to repost days later, etc. Grrr.... SCREW Nigeria, sorry but what a corrupt country.

[Ramesh Jai]

Grrr.... SCREW Nigeria, sorry but what a corrupt country.

Take it easy. It's a whole country you are talking about. I'm sure you are smarter than that.

[Noel Evans]

Sorry whats the number up to now? If I can get the March/April from now Im totally in.

[Paul Hazlett]

So, in light of where this camera is going to go, is it in my best interest to put in a reservation at this point? At this point, should I wait until production ramps to create a surplus? Or will the cameras always be produced on a made-to-order basis from reservation payments?

Thanks.

Whats to hurt putting a res in now. its not like you have to put all the money
in now and you will hold a better place in line, giving you time to get familiar
with the camera.

If production of the cameras slows for any reason it will only benefit you to have a res, as far as I see it.

[Ivan G]

50-100 shipping today? :shifty:

[Greg M]

50-100 shipping today? :shifty:

we were told Oct 15th

[I Bloom]

Ugg, funny but I had that happen to me :( I was selling my XL-1s on ebay and someone used Buy-it-Now and wanted me to ship to Lagos, Nigeria. Now I'm not an idiot, so I immediately contacted ebay, told this guy to screw off, etc., but what a pain in the butt. It ruined my auction so I had to repost days later, etc. Grrr.... SCREW Nigeria, sorry but what a corrupt country.

I'm not convinced that your auction was a scam. They make a lot of movies in Lagos. More by volume than anywhere else in the world, mostly on DV. I think you probably made the right choice, but I also think the guy on the other end was probably trying to make a movie.

Check out:
http://www.thisisnollywood.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_of_Nigeria

IBloom

[David Battistella]

Somewhere in this range, all the bugs better be fixed

Yeah,

You tell him! He better get it right next time.


Jeesh. No manners.
ease off man.

David