Birger EF Mount? [Archive]

Bill Goehring

09-23-2007, 10:15 AM

Erik and Birger Engineering don't owe anybody anything--yet.

At least until orders are taken and/or deposits accepted, they should still be considered in development.

What's concerning is that, apparently, Erik's ducks weren't all in a row and he overpromised on technology or economics or timing or any combination of the three.

I'd be disappointed to find that out, because I'm really excited by the Birger mount's capabilities and hoping to leverage my investment in Nikkor lenses on the RED ONE without having to sacrifice off-lens control.

If Birger doesn't have a Nikkor solution by November, I will have to reconsider RED's "dumb" or "passive" mounting option and hope Birger, RED or someone else can make it happen soon.

I'd like to just step up to the RED lens line, but with a parallel investment in still gear, it just makes sense to use the same glass for both, if possible. Also, the availabilty and affordability of more extreme lenses like fish-eyes, perspective correction, and long telephots are a plus.

Rocco Schult

09-23-2007, 10:33 AM

I was in contact with Erik right before IBC to see if he was available.
Please respect that smaller companies like viewfactor or Birger have a lot of work to accomplish a task to bring new products to market incl. electronics, product design, marketing etc.
Yes, Curt does communicate a bit more how things proceed at his side, but 3 weeks ago ERIK (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4007) was exactly telling what was the story.
But in the end we have seen PROTOTYPEs/MOCKUPs (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3101) from Eriks product that did look promising, right ?
I am also keen on getting news and understand the request, but lets be a little more patient and kind please, I am sure he will respond as soon as there a news to his products.

PaulClements

09-23-2007, 12:49 PM

wshultz

09-23-2007, 01:00 PM

Hi Don,

Bill's correct, Eric doesn't owe anyone anything.

I would however like to know whether the Nikon is still expected before November because if it isn't then it may well affect my lens choices.

Gibby has gotten hold of a Canon mount from Birger but has been reluctant to post anything yet. This was the last I heard of any Birger involvement on the forum. Hopefully someone might chime in soon and clear up the confusion over reservations and delivery etc.

Paul

While I agree, I DO think if someone says news or forms will post by next week and then goes silent for way beyond that time it creates a perception of the company I'm sure they don't want--especially when it has happened more than once. It just doesn't take that long to communicate that things aren't ready but they aren't ignoring those looking for their product. It would be smarter to keep excitement and anticipation growing and frustration to a minimum. Just assign that task to whomever their marketing person is.

PaulClements

09-23-2007, 01:05 PM

I agree, I'd very much like to hear from them. Just saying they don't owe it us. It'd very much be in their interest if they did.

Paul

Evin Grant

09-23-2007, 04:23 PM

You guys have gotten spoiled. Stop whining, as soon as Erik has some real info I'm sure he'll be back here with an update. It's entirely uncharacteristic of any company to be as forthcoming as Red this early in the development that Erik & Birger have been willing to play along at all speaks volumes about his respect for us. Give him some time, it'll all come along soon.

Clint Johnson

09-23-2007, 05:24 PM

My plan is built around getting the Birger adapter to use with a set of Canon lenses. I own a few lenses and am buying four more and if there is anyone who really wants information on the Birger mount it would be me... and I won't start badgering them until it starts closing in on my November 30 (subject to change) delivery date.

And if they can't deliver when I need it I will understand and allocate my limited budget towards the 18-50mm Red lens... and put some Canon lenses up for sale - along with the five Nikon manual lenses I bought before the Birger adapter was announced.

When things are in flux like this it doesn't pay to be fixated on a release date or an exact set of equipment - remain flexible and ready to roll with the punches.

Erik Widding

09-24-2007, 07:49 AM

Any body have any news on when we might be able to order the Birger Canon EF mount? (Erik)

A new designer started this morning. Her first assignment is the order form and prduct announcement web page. Give us a day or so for the former, and a few days for the later. The bonus dates will be extended to about two weeks from the release of the form.

A number of changes have occurred to the delivery schedule for the camera. As have design changes to the camera itself. Development has been actively continuing here at Birger. But when a manufacturer says everything is subject to change, there is an impact on the entire ecosystem. With all of these changes we had not seen an urgency to get more information out - just so we could change it later.

Admittedly, with the large investment we are continuing to make in development, we should put at least a small investment in sales.:sarcasm:

TOTAL lack of respect. Their lack of communication more than once means lack of confidence. On my book, it has a name for it: incompetence. No more, no less.

Don, you have really stepped over the line here. Rather than pick up the telephone and find out status for yourself, and/or to report to others on the forum, you choose to attack me publicly. Uncool, at the very least.

Seung Han

09-24-2007, 08:10 AM

This is a very intense site... :)

Excited to see what you guys cooked up! Are we still doing that promotional deal for the early adopters in the spirit of RED? :shiftyph34r:

T. Glen Phelps

09-24-2007, 08:51 AM

Birger Engineering certainly does not owe me anything and I'm sure they will be more than forth-coming when their product is ready to sell. The intent of my post was simply to see if anyone had any additional information I might have missed. It's sometimes difficult to sort out the useful information from the ranting.

HD Hildebrand

09-24-2007, 09:05 AM

A new designer started this morning. Her first assignment is the order form and prduct announcement web page. Give us a day or so for the former, and a few days for the later.

Great news Erik. If you can, either on this forum on on your product announcement page, please let us know if you will be releasing the Nikon and Canon mount at the same time, and if there is an unfortunate delay in the Nikon, when will it be up.

Seems a number of us are really wanting to get the mounts when we get our cameras (end of November) and would sincerely like to avoid buying the manual mount if we can get yours.

Also, let us know a game plan on intallation of the mount if you can.

Cheers,
Dale

Mr. Paul White

09-24-2007, 09:06 AM

Don, you have really stepped over the line here. Rather than pick up the telephone and find out status for yourself, and/or to report to others on the forum, you choose to attack me publicly. Uncool, at the very least.

I don't think it's anything about personal attacks. But about the dates already scheduled. They have been delayed with no further information.

Jim Jannard has established a standard...

T. Glen Phelps

09-24-2007, 09:13 AM

Thanks Erik for the update.

Roberto B

09-24-2007, 09:37 AM

at the very least, you woke up erik.. :)

Simon Smith

09-24-2007, 09:42 AM

Jim Jannard has established a standard...
Yes Jim Jannard has been very competent indeed.

Roberto B

09-24-2007, 09:45 AM

gotcha :)

donatello b

09-24-2007, 10:24 AM

Harmonica

09-24-2007, 11:54 AM

Don, you have really stepped over the line here. Rather than pick up the telephone and find out status for yourself, and/or to report to others on the forum, you choose to attack me publicly. Uncool, at the very least.

Erik, obviously Don wants to give you his business. A more professional response might be to apologize rather than recoiling on your potential customer (publicly).

Some posters have said that you "don't owe us" anything. Well, when you publicly set a deadline, you do owe us some communication on or by that deadline, in the least. If you are unable to hit a deadline, no problem. It takes 10 seconds to post: "Hit some delays... update to come soon."

That being said, Erik, your products are truly amazing and I can't thank you enough for making them available to us. I look forward to patronizing you (in the positive sense). :)

Erik Widding

09-24-2007, 11:56 AM

when orders are taken will there be any considerations for when one takes delivery of their RED ...
IE: if a persons has RED 3 and somebody has RED 8000 ... will you ship according to RED # or when order placed with Birger ?

We will take reservations in order. If your desired delivery date, as indicated on the reservation form, is in the future we will allocate a unit for that ship date, and then move to the next person on the list. The bonus offer will require scheduling a ship date prior to the end of 2007.

Expected availability for the first 100 production units of each flavor:

Canon EF (15 October)
Sigma SA (30 October)
FourThirds (15 November)
Nikon F (30 November)

The Nikon date is really pessimistic. The Nikon mount contains one complicated mechanical actuator for the iris, that none of the other mounts require. We are still finalizing the design of this mechanism. Release of the mount is going to be limited by the production of this actuator. It could be available in quantity as soon as 1 November.

Production capability is approximately 50 to 100 units/week, through the end of the calendar year.

Emanuel A.

09-24-2007, 12:02 PM

Thanks for your care, Erik.

Bill Goehring

09-24-2007, 12:10 PM

I don't think Birger Engineering and RED are formally affiliated, or, if they are, it is not common knowledge. I'm fairly confident that both the Birger and the RED lists are first-come-first-served, without any linking between RED and third-party lists.

This presents my biggest issue in taking delivery of a RED with a Birger Nikon mount. I think Jim or someone else from RED said in one of the threads that third-party accessories would not be installed in RED's factory. I imagine this would be, if for no other reason, due to the implied or de facto liability/warrantee for the third-party accessories shipped with or on the RED ONE.

So we will be responsible for transporting the RED ONE to third-party facilities for installation of precision-mounted accessories or have a close-by tech mount it for us. For me, that will require at least a four-hour drive, since there is no collimation equipment or service near where I live.

Solutions? May authorized third-party suppliers (Birger Engineering) take shipment of RED ONEs for installation of their accessory (Nikon mount) before heading on to the customer?

Emanuel A.

09-24-2007, 12:21 PM

Erik,

I have a problem and question too: I'd like to have one of my RED ONE units with a Birger Lens mount but installed from factory. Calibrated, collimated, etc there.

Since I'm in Europe, the RED ONE would have to be shipped from Orange County to...? (And only after that, to Europe.)

I know other RED european customers with the same doubt, concern and interrogation. Can we count on it?

Keep up the good work,

E.

Sanjin Jukic

09-24-2007, 12:44 PM

Erik,

I would like to order Canon EF mount for RED.

BirgerEngineering Web Store still is not showing this option!?

How and where I can do it?

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Harmonica

09-24-2007, 12:54 PM

Erik,

I would like to order Canon EF mount for RED.

BirgerEngineering Web Store still is not showing this option!?

How and where I can do it?

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Here is what Erik posted about the webite:

A new designer started this morning. Her first assignment is the order form and prduct announcement web page. Give us a day or so for the former, and a few days for the later. The bonus dates will be extended to about two weeks from the release of the form.

Erik Widding

09-24-2007, 12:56 PM

I have a problem and question too: I'd like to have one of my RED ONE units with a Birger Lens mount but installed from factory. Calibrated, collimated, etc there.

We are not going to offer this option. I have not spoken to RED about it, but I would suspect they will not be offering the option either. RED will set the registration distance on the camera, and Birger will accurately set this distance on the lens mount. Remove eight screws from the RED PL mount, dust off the two mating surfaces, and place four screws through the Birger mount. Five minutes, an allen wrench and a dustcloth, not rocket science.

I would like to order Canon EF mount for RED.
BirgerEngineering Web Store still is not showing this option!? How and where I can do it? Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Registration form is going to be finished tomorrow. We have a draft ready to go, but want to nail down the last of the warranty and other terms. I will announce availability on reduser.

Karl H

09-24-2007, 12:57 PM

wshultz

09-24-2007, 01:18 PM

Thanks Erik! The good news is you've got a lot of people excited about your solution.

Looking forward to a Nikon version reservation.

Gordon Prince

09-24-2007, 01:43 PM

We are not going to offer this option. I have not spoken to RED about it, but I would suspect they will not be offering the option either. RED will set the registration distance on the camera, and Birger will accurately set this distance on the lens mount. Remove eight screws from the RED PL mount, dust off the two mating surfaces, and place four screws through the Birger mount. Five minutes, an allen wrench and a dustcloth, not rocket science.I knew it. I already had read something about it...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4319&page=8

Mark Crabtree

09-24-2007, 03:26 PM

Birger is a real company. Anybody who is nervous needs to take a deep breath. Only 50 cameras have been delivered so far and there have been a number of delays. This is a never done before development project so expect delays. It will all be worth the wait.

Fergus Meiklejohn

09-24-2007, 04:38 PM

Erik you are the man! :biggrin:
And a good question from Darkline...:innocent:

jbeale

09-24-2007, 04:55 PM

PaulClements

09-24-2007, 06:31 PM

More than one person seems to be concerned about lens collimation. Is there a reason for this? People change lenses in 35mm SLR cameras without a second thought. I'm wondering what additional potential problems exist with changing out a lens mount. Are people worried about decentering, axial misalignment, spacing problems, or something else? Assuming the mating surfaces are clean, the bolts are not cross-threaded, and they are tightened to the correct torque, what is the worst-case scenario here?

Hi Jbeale,

It's to do with swapping back to PL more than to Nikon or Canon. Making sure the PL mount is aligned properly so all those precision marks on the lens are perfect again for the focus puller. Focusing with stills will be done by eye mostly so it matters less.

Paul

Erik Widding

09-24-2007, 08:13 PM

Erik, will the birger mount operate the same for all manufacturers? for example, im still not sure to go for either Canon or Nikon lenses. Will your mount's functionality make either of these preferable? I'd be inclined to go for the lenses that work the most responsively with your system

If you want to get up and running fast, Canon is the best choice. We have been shipping this product for years. Already tested with 50+ lenses. For now we are recomennding the "L" lenses, and soon we, and other early users, will have feedback on which of the non-"L" lenses are going to be good bets.

Any Canon lens that has a "ring-type USM" focus motor will be really smooth for focusing. Nikon and Sigma have similar technologies - "silent wave" and "HSM".

Canon lens irises are limited to 1/4 stop per step... mathematically it is really 1/3 stop per step, but there a four steps per stop - wrap your brain around that! :w00t: Nikon lenses are only limited by the resolution of our mechanism, which will probably be better than that in the Canon lenses.

All Canon lenses have focus motors in them. Only Nikon lenses designated AF-S have focus motors. We will not support focusing with AF lenses on the Nikon mount. Most, if not all, new lenses from Nikon are AF-S, so this is more of an issue if one wants to use old lenses.

Some of the really inexpensive Nikon lenses have a direct encoder on the focus mechanism (after the gear train) so these may offer better performance than the equally inexpensive Canon lenses. But I think this last distinction is meaningless, as one is not going to spend $17K on a camera and $1K on a lens mount to use a $99 lens.

All of the FourThirds lenses are measured at a higher resolution than is typical for full frame lenses. But this is probably also true for the DX and EF-S lenses from Nikon and Canon that are aimed at the smaller digital sensors.

Sigma SA has the same iris limitations as the Canon. They make some interesting special purpose lenses - not all of which are available with a FourThirds mount. We are only going to support Sigma lenses on these two mounts, but I suspect this lack of support will not stop people from using these lenses on the other mounts and reporting the results of such testing to the forum.

All of the good lenses aren't limited to a single manufacturer. Each has its stars... and its dogs. Test results from early users and and still photography web sites are going to offer some valuable information.

Vincent S

09-24-2007, 09:01 PM

We are only going to support Sigma lenses on these two mounts, but I suspect this lack of support will not stop people from using these lenses on the other mounts

Thanks Erik, so is your best guess that If one used a sigma lens like the 18-50 but with a canon mount it should work, is that what I'm reading.

And If was to get a Sigma lens in another mount would Canon or Nikon mount be best?

Thanks

Karl H

09-25-2007, 02:35 AM

Thanks Erik,

so potentially, you're saying the focussing will be smooth on all of them, but Nikon should have a smoother iris control than Canon. However, we'll have to wait a while until you've got specs for the different Nikon lens calibrations?

In terms of focus draw, is there any difference? I'm assuming your FF system will give them a level playing field, but I thought it was worth asking if there was a greater or lesser degree of fine control one could achieve with either lenses (canon or nikon).

My understanding of how it all work is this (though I could be wrong). You mount the lens and a focus calibration kicks in, setting the limits of the focus mechanism; this is then mapped to the limis of the remote/FF input device and you can then slide/rotate the knob with exactly the same degree of movement that you would when any lens is attached, regardless of it's focus draw?

So whatever lens you mount you'll always have the same full control range on the slider/ff knob. Am I even close?

Damien Molineaux

09-25-2007, 02:36 AM

... Only Nikon lenses designated AF-S have focus motors. We will not support focusing with AF lenses on the Nikon mount. Most, if not all, new lenses from Nikon are AF-S, so this is more of an issue if one wants to use old lenses.

Some of the really inexpensive Nikon lenses have a direct encoder on the focus mechanism (after the gear train) so these may offer better performance than the equally inexpensive Canon lenses. But I think this last distinction is meaningless, as one is not going to spend $17K on a camera and $1K on a lens mount to use a $99 lens.

...

Hi Erik,

Thank you for the news and info. Actually, a Nikon 50mm f1.4 is around $100 and an excellent lens. Which brings about my question, will your mount work with older Nikon lenses, I have a set of very nice Nikon AI lenses. I know I won't have any electronic control, but can I still use your mount so as to be able to mount either AF-S or older lenses with the same mount ?

Cheers,
Damien

Fergus Meiklejohn

09-25-2007, 03:17 AM

Thanks Erik

Will you have a Nikon mount prototype ready soon for testing against the Canon mount?

Erik Widding

09-25-2007, 12:00 PM

My understanding of how it all work is this (though I could be wrong). You mount the lens and a focus calibration kicks in, setting the limits of the focus mechanism; this is then mapped to the limis of the remote/FF input device and you can then slide/rotate the knob with exactly the same degree of movement that you would when any lens is attached, regardless of it's focus draw?

So whatever lens you mount you'll always have the same full control range on the slider/ff knob. Am I even close?

This is a very accurate assessment. Range of motion is the same across lenses. But the resolution of that motion may be different. The knob will always have the same 4000 steps. But the lenses vary from a few hundred steps, to many thousand.

Vicente Nogueira

09-26-2007, 12:10 PM

Erik, how many steps for the Canon 24-70 f2.8L and Canon 70-200 f2.8L IS?

Erik Widding

09-26-2007, 12:36 PM

Erik, how many steps for the Canon 24-70 f2.8L and Canon 70-200 f2.8L IS?

Only have the data readily available for a few lenses:

LENS NAME: #STEPS
CANON LENS EF 50mm 1:1.4 USM: 660
CANON ZOOM LENS EF-S 10-22mm 1:3.5-4.5 USM: 1185
CANON LENS EF 14mm 1:2.8L USM: 1398
CANON ZOOM LENS 16-35mm 1:2.8L USM: 1566
CANON LENS EF 100mm 1:2 USM: 1687
CANON LENS EF 28mm 1:1.8 USM: 1800
CANON ZOOM LENS EF 28-105mm 1:3.5-4.5 USM: 1900
CANON LENS EF 200mm 1:2.8L USM: 2098
CANON ZOOM LENS EF 28-135mm 1:3.5-5.6 IS USM: 2276
CANON ZOOM LENS EF 70-200mm 1:2.8L IS USM: 2512
CANON LENS EF 35mm 1:1.4L USM: 2517
CANON LENS EF 24mm 1:1.4L USM: 2521
CANON MACRO LENS EF 100mm 1:2.8 USM: 2535
CANON MACRO LENS EF-S 60mm 1:2.8 USM: 3298
CANON LENS EF 200mm 1:1.8L USM: 3706
CANON LENS EF 85mm 1:1.2L USM: 4212

Jim Arthurs

09-26-2007, 01:12 PM

Thanks for the info Eric... I had a couple questions...

1.) is there any time delay or lag in the focus knob?

2.) On power off then on, does your focus and fstop return to previous values?

3.) How is the iris set? I noticed on the photo Gibby provided of the beta unit a knob at the top of the mount housing... is this the iris control?

Regards,

PaulClements

09-26-2007, 01:42 PM

3.) How is the iris set? I noticed on the photo Gibby provided of the beta unit a knob at the top of the mount housing... is this the iris control?

I figured it was the wireless/bluetooth antenna?

Paul

Gordon Prince

09-26-2007, 02:06 PM

Only have the data readily available for a few lenses:

LENS NAME: #STEPS
CANON LENS EF 50mm 1:1.4 USM: 660
CANON ZOOM LENS EF-S 10-22mm 1:3.5-4.5 USM: 1185
CANON LENS EF 14mm 1:2.8L USM: 1398
CANON ZOOM LENS 16-35mm 1:2.8L USM: 1566
CANON LENS EF 100mm 1:2 USM: 1687
CANON LENS EF 28mm 1:1.8 USM: 1800
CANON ZOOM LENS EF 28-105mm 1:3.5-4.5 USM: 1900
CANON LENS EF 200mm 1:2.8L USM: 2098
CANON ZOOM LENS EF 28-135mm 1:3.5-5.6 IS USM: 2276
CANON ZOOM LENS EF 70-200mm 1:2.8L IS USM: 2512
CANON LENS EF 35mm 1:1.4L USM: 2517
CANON LENS EF 24mm 1:1.4L USM: 2521
CANON MACRO LENS EF 100mm 1:2.8 USM: 2535
CANON MACRO LENS EF-S 60mm 1:2.8 USM: 3298
CANON LENS EF 200mm 1:1.8L USM: 3706
CANON LENS EF 85mm 1:1.2L USM: 4212

And doesn't the Canon 24-70 f2.8L work with your Birger lens mount?

Erik Widding

09-26-2007, 02:36 PM

1.) is there any time delay or lag in the focus knob?

Minimal. The knob poisiton is measured, and then the result is communicated to mount, which then commands the lens to update its position. This measurement happens at a fixed interval, which has in testing been on the order of 25 to more than 60 times per second. We will probably want to synchronize this to the frame rate of the camera. The lag is on the order of one time interval, plus the motor response time. If the knob is moved faster than the lens is capable of moving, the lens will eventually catch up. If memory serves, an iris move takes about 50mS.

2.) On power off then on, does your focus and fstop return to previous values?

No, but we certainly could make this a software feature. The iris stays in the same phsical position when powered up, but its absolute position is not known (unless of course we store it in the mount). The focus position can be measured on power up and moved back to the same location. Regardless of operating mode, when powering up, a homing operation is required on both axes.

3.) How is the iris set? I noticed on the photo Gibby provided of the beta unit a knob at the top of the mount housing... is this the iris control?

The iris is set through a second knob, a bluetooth enabled PDA or computer, our wireless remote control, some third party bluetooth device... or a menu in the RED camera or using the RED superGrip... if and when this makes RED's priority list.

Erik Widding

09-26-2007, 02:46 PM

And doesn't the Canon 24-70 f2.8L work with your Birger lens mount?

Yes it does work, but it was neither listed in my spreadsheet, nor sitting on my desk...

Only have the data readily available for a few lenses:

Gordon Prince

09-26-2007, 03:54 PM

Yes it does work, but it was neither listed in my spreadsheet, nor sitting on my desk...Do you have any idea when you'll have the data readily available for the Canon 24-70 f2.8L?

Jim Arthurs

09-26-2007, 04:43 PM

Gordon, based on the general trend of that list, and the fact that it's an "L" series lens, it's a fair bet it has enough steps to work smoothly unless it's the only one out there with "Fisher Price" level 50 step count or some such...

Goodness, if this mount works as advertised and the knob has a nice tactile feel to it, I have my personal lens kit figured out...

the 10-22 EFS (which will be GREAT in cropped sensor mode, as 10mm is plenty wide angle in my past life S16mm coverage), the 24-70 2.8 L and the 70-200 2.8L.

Both the 10-22mm and the 70-200 don't physically extend when changing focal length, and the 24-70 can be covered with a fixed length lens hood that won't interfere with any focal length.

Just that easy!

Next problem?

Vicente Nogueira

09-26-2007, 06:01 PM

Minimal. The knob poisiton is measured, and then the result is communicated to mount, which then commands the lens to update its position. This measurement happens at a fixed interval, which has in testing been on the order of 25 to more than 60 times per second. We will probably want to synchronize this to the frame rate of the camera. The lag is on the order of one time interval, plus the motor response time. If the knob is moved faster than the lens is capable of moving, the lens will eventually catch up. If memory serves, an iris move takes about 50mS.

No, but we certainly could make this a software feature. The iris stays in the same phsical position when powered up, but its absolute position is not known (unless of course we store it in the mount). The focus position can be measured on power up and moved back to the same location. Regardless of operating mode, when powering up, a homing operation is required on both axes.

The iris is set through a second knob, a bluetooth enabled PDA or computer, our wireless remote control, some third party bluetooth device... or a menu in the RED camera or using the RED superGrip... if and when this makes RED's priority list.

Erik, Thanks for the response on the number of steps.

Regarding your answer on setting the iris using a second knob, does it mean that the option of changing the iris directly by pressing a button on the adapter was not implemented?

Evan Owen

09-26-2007, 06:20 PM

Erik,

Thanks for your answers here. This has really helped me get a feel for things.

I'm wondering about Canon IS lenses.

1) Will the IS turn on just by hitting the switch on the lens? Or is there another control on the adaptor?

2) Since still lens IS isn't really designed to be on all the time, do you have any idea if it will shorten the life of the lens?

A. Bastaki

09-26-2007, 11:53 PM

1. sigma sa... is the mount on sigma SLR's like the SD-14.
2. Sigma lenses with a canon mount require the birger canon mount (not sigma sa mount).

are these two statements correct?

3. have you tested any sigma (canon mount) lenses on the birger adapter?

thanks.
________
Hawaii Marijuana Dispensary (http://hawaii.dispensaries.org/)

Fergus Meiklejohn

09-27-2007, 12:59 AM

I'm wondering how big the Birger Control will be, how heavy, and where and how we can attach it to the camera. I'm going with Birger because I don't have the money or the weight to lug around rails, mattebox, follow focus wheels, big heavy cinema glass, etc. Has Erik already answered this one?

Rocco Schult

09-27-2007, 05:44 AM

.. I have a problem and question too: I'd like to have one of my RED ONE units with a Birger Lens mount but installed from factory. Calibrated, collimated, etc there.

Since I'm in Europe...

I know other RED european customers...

We want Birgers Canon and Nikon mount too, so same problem here. I might be able to offer such a service. Even if we don't expect it to be that much of a problem (we expect the mount to be exchangeable like once was said - exactly and easily. So no field swap, but no collimation each time either).
Nonetheless, checking the mount from time to time in a professional way might not be too bad.
In case people are interested - we are based in Switzerland, PM me and we think about a "pro" service of that. This doesn't mean professional price, but shipping on time etc.
This only if RED shouldn't offer a calibration or has their own service in Europe and offers it locally. But I guess they won't adjust (for) 3rd party accessories.

Rocco Schult

09-27-2007, 05:49 AM

I'm wondering how big the Birger Control will be, how heavy, and where and how we can attach it to the camera.

Check THIS (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3101).
I guess its 15mm rod support because of how close the focus wheel seems to be, though dimensions are hard to guess here.
In that case you might go pretty compact. Maybe Erik has a word on this if not said elsewhere already.

Erik Widding

09-27-2007, 03:14 PM

Regarding your answer on setting the iris using a second knob, does it mean that the option of changing the iris directly by pressing a button on the adapter was not implemented?

Correct. We opted not to do this.

I'm wondering about Canon IS lenses.
1) Will the IS turn on just by hitting the switch on the lens? Or is there another control on the adaptor?
2) Since still lens IS isn't really designed to be on all the time, do you have any idea if it will shorten the life of the lens?

1) Yes.

2) Given that it is a voice coil, I suspect that it will not have an appreciable effect on life. They do after all use these same lenses on the XL1 camcorders with the IS running continuously.

1. sigma sa... is the mount on sigma SLR's like the SD-14.
2. Sigma lenses with a canon mount require the birger canon mount (not sigma sa mount).
3. have you tested any sigma (canon mount) lenses on the birger adapter?

1. Yes.

2. Yes... we do not support the use of third party lenses on the Canon mount... I suspect they would work...:wink:

3. No. See 2.

Evan Owen

09-27-2007, 03:19 PM

Correct. We opted not to do this.

1) Yes.

2) Given that it is a voice coil, I suspect that it will not have an appreciable effect on life. They do after all use these same lenses on the XL1 camcorders with the IS running continuously.

Thanks for the answers, Erik. Your solution is looking better and better.

Regarding the iris, I'm assuming there will be an easy way to see what it's set at? I'm not sure how /i works, but it'd be great to get some of that lens info onto the RED preview outputs.

Mr. Paul White

09-28-2007, 01:03 AM

on the number of steps.

What exactly does it mean?

Fergus Meiklejohn

09-28-2007, 02:20 AM

Check THIS (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3101).
I guess its 15mm rod support because of how close the focus wheel seems to be, though dimensions are hard to guess here.
In that case you might go pretty compact. Maybe Erik has a word on this if not said elsewhere already.

thanks! I'd forgotten about that thread..:poster_stupid:

I wonder if anyone knows if the aperture control has it's own wheel (so two wheels to mount..)?

Now for my rig I'm thinking short CF rods, and mostly recording 2K scaled to CF, except for long interviews on a tripod, and the odd shot that would need to be 4K. Gotta keep that weight down maaaaannnnnn....:ranting2:

Erik Widding

09-28-2007, 12:33 PM

Regarding the iris, I'm assuming there will be an easy way to see what it's set at? I'm not sure how /i works, but it'd be great to get some of that lens info onto the RED preview outputs.

That is the plan. I think Jim posted some time ago that /i wasn't ready in the camera yet. I have not spoken with Stuart or Jim recently to find out when these planned features are scheduled for implementation. I have heard they are rather busy over there...:)

"on the number of steps."
What exactly does it mean?

The motors move in discrete intervals or "steps". There is a relatively fixed and finite number of these steps for any given lens.

I wonder if anyone knows if the aperture control has it's own wheel (so two wheels to mount..)?

This is one of the ways to use the system. We are working on some documentation of the system and its possibilities today. It should be out in a couple of days.

S. Um

09-30-2007, 01:07 PM

Registration form is going to be finished tomorrow. We have a draft ready to go, but want to nail down the last of the warranty and other terms. I will announce availability on reduser.

Any update on when the order form will go up?

Also, can you put together a product information page with the features of the lens mounts, schedule, and pricing? I know we've discussed this over many threads, but it would be nice to have the info all in one place.

Erik Widding

10-01-2007, 09:45 AM

Any update on when the order form will go up?

Also, can you put together a product information page with the features of the lens mounts, schedule, and pricing? I know we've discussed this over many threads, but it would be nice to have the info all in one place.

Finalizing both documents. Probably out tomorrow afternoon.

Sven Seynaeve

10-02-2007, 01:31 PM

Thinking about using an si -2k in the near future instead of an hpx500 for getting used to workflow in the meantime waiting on a red, is it possible to use the birger adapter also on this si - 2k for the use with canons, as far i know it could be done???

David Nardini

10-04-2007, 12:07 PM

Finalizing both documents. Probably out tomorrow afternoon.

Any news ? Update ?

Cheers ...

Fergus Meiklejohn

10-04-2007, 03:16 PM

lol
Erik is the Don King!

But it's a good thing we all have months to wait till we get our cameras :)

Sam Druckerman

10-04-2007, 03:18 PM

But it's a good thing we all have months to wait till we get our cameras :)

Not all of us....

HD Hildebrand

10-04-2007, 03:22 PM

Not all of us....

I hear ya' brother.

Dexter Gregoire

10-04-2007, 03:29 PM

I don't think anyone should worry about getting a mount in time with their RED. I spoke to Erik awhile back and I got the impression that everythings under control.

Remember Boston is 3 hours ahead, which means that Erik is probably on his way home to be with his family.

Start checking for the order form tomorrow.

Sam Druckerman

10-04-2007, 05:38 PM

No worries....

It's all good.

Eric is doing the best he can, and that's all we can ask.

"All good things come to those who wait."

Ben Feuer

10-13-2007, 05:53 AM

Did the form come out?

geoff tompkinson

10-13-2007, 06:18 AM

I have seen no form as yet.

Erik had a go at someone earlier in this thread saying all he had to do was pick-up the phone and ask.

Although I am UK based I just happen to be shooting in Boston at the moment.

I have telephoned Birger twice a day for the last week and not yet been able to get past an answerphone.

I have left a message asking for someone to e-mail me and let me know what is happening - no reply.

I e-mailed them directly a while ago after it was announced that early subscribers would get benefits - no reply.

I, along with presumably everybody else reading this thread, would really like to know if this device is going to be available soon or not.

It seems to me that Erik has made several statements that things will be ready 'in a few days' only to follow up with nothing.

Erik, could you not just make an accurate statement of what is happening. Even if you are not going to be ready for another six months it would be better that we all know that and retain some confidence in your word.

I've held off saying any of this for a while. I really want this to work, and I don't want to upset anyone.

Mark Crabtree

10-13-2007, 09:44 AM

I have been talking with Erik by phone every couple of months or so since the Birger EOS mount was announced. I have not been calling to bug him with "when will it be ready" or "where is the form", but to give him feedback on what I, and hopefully all of us, would like this thing to do and what options we might have for controlling it, etc. I want everyone to know that my faith in Erik and the Birger Mount is extremely solid. He is building us a device that will revolutionize lensing motion pictures. Gone will be the zoom motors and mechanical coupling devices which add weight and are problematic to maintain. It will intelligently know each each lens and give us repeatable focus pulls far more accurate than mechanical devices. There will be embedded data for post work just like Cooke and Red lenses. Plus some very interesting future upgrades which everyone will love. All this plus with wireless operation. Now this is going to be a fantastic product. Let's just give Erik a break, the form will be out when he is ready. We have to give him the time he needs. Look at the delays we have seen from Red. Developement of something great requires time. Do not worry about the Birger mount. It is real. It is coming. And I believe it will be here sooner rather than later. Just keep looking at this thread. Erik will be putting up the form very soon. I think that once this mount gets out there, the vast majority of us are going to want one.