time for a change

[Alex Wengert]

I think that it is finally time to form a true Reduser.net for actual Red One owners and reservation holders. Too much speculation going on the original site. Time for true facts and observations in an educated forum. I think that fanboy time is over. What do you think Jim and Jared?

[Alex Wengert]

Point of reference. imbd.com and imbdpro

[Jarred Land]

dont worry.. the fans will change to users pretty soon. Maybe ill add a "actual users section" though...?

[Matt Setnes]

What would be the difference?
I don't think we need to cut people out of the loop just because the cameras are being released.

[Alex Wengert]

Good idea. True info is much better than speculation and random interpretation of presented material. Thanks for listening.

[Alex Wengert]

What would be the difference?
I don't think we need to cut people out of the loop just because the cameras are being released.

Most of the responders are talking out of their ass. They have no f'ing clue to what they are responding to. Pardon my frustration. It's time to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[Darwin]

dont worry.. the fans will change to users pretty soon. Maybe ill add a "actual users section" though...?
And Just how would you go about determining who is a legitimate user and who is not?

[Alex Wengert]

Red knows who the reservation holders are and who they have delivered to. It's only a matter of providing a password to qualified members. I think that people that have an actual commitment deserve a private forum.

[Brandon Fraley]

well, I've ordered mine, but it hasn't been delivered yet. Do I not "deserve" to have access to the same info shared with people who already have their cameras?

[Alex Wengert]

Yes Brandon. If you have money down, you should have access. Absolutely! It has nothing nothing to do with "deserved". You have a financial commitment.

[Darwin]

Was not sure how I felt about your Idea....Kinda like when LART got moved to its own little spot I lost track of what was going on. Now I think it would be cool to take it a step further, where only qualified members could read as well as post! Then we would truly be the first to get new news!

[Jens Jakob Thorsen]

Red knows who the reservation holders are and who they have delivered to. It's only a matter of providing a password to qualified members. I think that people that have an actual commitment deserve a private forum.

Hear hear!

JJ
DP
Denmark

[Gunleik Groven]

I really don't mind the form the board has as of today.

Could be an idea if there was sensitive info to be given, but I have a hard time seeing that sort of information being contained as there will be litterally thousands of us in a couple of months, and some have definitely ordered to deconstruct this thingy anyway... And they will still get the info on a closed board.

As to wild speculations...

Haven't they always been part of the fun and marketing of the Red?


The fun with the Red thingy has partly been the openness. Why should that be contained the moment the camera is actually here?

Gunleik

[Eryc Tramonn]

Oh god, here we go...I thought the idea was to remove barricades and have an open forum. Closing things down to a select audience doesn't really fit with the sentiment the camera was created under. If someone poses intelligent questions, what do you have to be afraid of? If someone poses ludicrous questions - ignore them. They'll go away.

[Ramesh Jai]

Oh god, here we go...I thought the idea was to remove barricades and have an open forum. Closing things down to a select audience doesn't really fit with the sentiment the camera was created under. If someone poses intelligent questions, what do you have to be afraid of? If someone poses ludicrous questions - ignore them. They'll go away.
I totally agree. RED is for everyone. Users and non-users, reservation holders and non-. This is where people can make informed decisions. You cannot expect everyone to know everything about the camera from day one. If you find a question annoying scroll on.

[Michael Moreno]

:angry03: :w00t: its true that questions can be ignored, but as a reservation holder myself i have enyoyed the amount of information and footage provided here and lately its harder to navigaate through alot of b.s.

there should be a red.com internal link for a catalog of footage and a place for the professionals to continue talking about professional stuff like the people at red and certain redusers who know there stuff and then only they can post and everyone else can evesdrop and just learn like a intelligent debate.

it used to be that way here, but instead theres alot of red ab-use-rs abusing the great forum someone initially thought up.

this isnt youtube for goodness sakes !

with that point i guess on the bright side at least there isnt a bunch of spam redusers promising to give me free music and iphones and offering dating services which i think alot of people on her could use, seeing how time and forum space gets wasted over people gossiping about someone already selling a red one on ebay, sheesh i thought they were going to stone him or release the hounds.

this camera is real fing awesome and is for real people who can afford it and some like me who are scraping to have the most beautiful footage available, everyone else needs to stay on youtube and post there costco camera footage there.

keep it real

not real stupid

i love everyone in this world but life teaches you some people need to shut up while others are trying to work.

someone chime in and save reduser from the abusers
not sure if i helped

[Mark Thorpe]

dont worry.. the fans will change to users pretty soon. Maybe ill add a "actual users section" though...?Sign in using Reservation number checked against security questions etc......

I pretty much stopped posting serious questions here as it seems there is a sharp increase in volatility if a poster offers an opinion in any way contrary to the original thread direction. I now learn elsewhere and await my arrival date with a few attempts at keeping the troops morale high.

A 'Gated Community' for RED? All in favor.......

Cheers,
Mark.

[Stephen Gentle]

I like it how it is. You have to think about the people who plan on hiring the camera, DPing with someone elses, etc.

[david farland]

Oh wait there......David Mullen only owns a couple of light meters..he's the first to go!!!

I think it's a completely dumb idea that'll bring down the collective knowledge of this forum no end!
It sounds just like the antithesis of Red's open policy and will probably end up narrow as other forums that insist on 20 years experience or else your opinion isn't welcome.
I learn a lot from everybody on this forum...it's bit like democracy where everyone can voice an opinion no matter how ill informed, discriminatory or short sighted it is.....because that avenue is the same that words of wisdom appear...from camera owner or not.

Cheers,

[Jeff Coatney]

I myself feel a bit in the gunsights on this one. I agree that a place should exist that provides factual data and relevant information that only an "owner(s)" can or should be privvy to. Unlike most members on this board, I use my real name. I do this in the spirit of openess and honesty. I don't know a tenth of the things about being a DP that most of you do. I'm here because I like the camera, I want to use it, I want to own it. I'm here to learn from all of you how to do that-- not as an operator or DP, but as a Producer, Director and a Writer. But more than anything, I want this camera to succeed beyond imagination. There are over 4,500 members of this "community" as I recall. I myself have told at least 30 to 40 people about this camera who previously had not heard about it before and didn't know it existed. Most of them were in the Industry. If each one of us has informed as many people or more, we could be looking at 250,000 first-person exchanges from word-of-mouth (I'm being very conservative for illustrative purposes here). If average direct-marketing capture rates are loosely applied to that number, then RED could expect orders in the neighborhood of 2,500 to date. The point is this: neither RED nor any of US that want this to succeed, can afford to exclude anyone interested in this camera from taking part in the discussion, the exchange of ideas, the sharing of expertise. It is mission-critical to have waiting customers- professionals like most of you and some novices, learning as much as we can about how to use this product for our individual purposes. I know I do a lot of self-editing while reading these posts and I'm sure you all do. I hope in the "inclusive" spirit that RED represents to many of us, that we open the forum to all interested parties, whatever their motives. It would be short-sighted to expect the user to begin learning how to use this product only after it shows up on their doorstep. A waiting army of informed buyers is what we need to build in this community, not elitist, exclusionary minded specialists trying to keep the number of users limited. As for who's an owner and who isn't, trust me, just having a reservation number won't tell you that. I'm sure many people will pool their resources and jointly own the camera in their own communities. Shouldn't all of them be included? In the end, You'll make your bones with the footage you shoot and that will separate the wheat from the chaff.

[Gunleik Groven]

Oh wait there......David Mullen only owns a couple of light meters..he's the first to go!!!

I think it's a completely dumb idea that'll bring down the collective knowledge of this forum no end!
It sounds just like the antithesis of Red's open policy and will probably end up narrow as other forums that insist on 20 years experience or else your opinion isn't welcome.
I learn a lot from everybody on this forum...it's bit like democracy where everyone can voice an opinion no matter how ill informed, discriminatory or short sighted it is.....because that avenue is the same that words of wisdom appear...from camera owner or not.

Cheers,

You're better @ refrasing me than I could possilbly be -;)

G

[number6]

I think that it is finally time to form a true Reduser.net for actual Red One owners and reservation holders. Too much speculation going on the original site. Time for true facts and observations in an educated forum. I think that fanboy time is over. What do you think Jim and Jared?

I thought that was what the stickys were for.

[David Battistella]

Points for:

1. The people on the inside can share knowledge.
2. There might be considerably less "noise".
3. The information could possibly be more valid.
4. You become part of a smaller, tighter community.
5. Currently there would be only the RED team an 100 people ( think the community is well over a few thousand now.


Points against:

1.Exclusionary.
2.You create a clique.
3.You draw from a smaller knowledge base (which may or may not be better).
4.You ingnore post Post Production. Who are very interested in RED and have a lot to contribute. (they might not own camera's though)
5. Red User may no longer be viewed as "community" because it has an elite member group.
6. Does not include working DP's who work on rented equipment all the time.
7. Who manages the entry system, etc.?
8. What's next? Apply to the group with a resume.


I am not sure that having a private club is in line with the whole concept of RED, which to me seems like a very welcoming and inclusive community (take a look at how RED user spawned LART). It's hard to build that kind of community and then say to some people, "get out! you can't play in our sandbox". I'd say that this is "narrow and old thinking" and doesn't belong at REDUSER.

I agree that in a big open forum with lots of users you get some messiness but by and large a lot of different people contribute here.

David

as a side note: I believe that a big part of the problem can be solved with a simple STICKY that says "CURRENT RED NEWS" that is updated weekly. THis might stop all the bogus information and provides a link to move posters to. It is built of "official information" from RED and it could look as simple as this:

CAMERA SERIAL NUMBERS THAT HAVE SHIPPED
1-50

CAMERA SERIAL NUMBER CURRENT SHIPPING DATES
(subject to change)
Serial numbers 51-100 October 15th (50 units)
Serial numbers 101-200 October 30th (100 units)
Serial numbers 201- 600 November 30th (400 units)
Serial numbers 601- 1100 December 30th (500 units)
Serial numbers 1101- 1600 January 30th (500 units)
Serial numbers 1601- 2200 February 30th (500 units)
Serial numbers 2201- 2700 March 30th (500 units)
Serial numbers 2701- 3400 April 30th (700 units)
Serial numbers 3401- 4100 May 30th (700 units)

CURRENT RED ALERT VERSION
(IN BETA or V1.0)
work's only on Intel MAC's

CURRENT REDCINE VERSION
(BETA release is eminent)
work's only on Intel MAC's

CURRENT VERSION OF CAMERA FIRMWARE
(V.0543 or what ever it is)

CURRENT ENABLED FEATURES
23.98 4k recording to CF cards

FUTURE RELEASE FEATURES (in order of urgency determined by RED)
2K recording
Multiple frame rates
4 channel audio
Dual builds

EVF STATUS
Not yet enabled

REDDRIVES
Not enabled

ACCESORIES
Decided upon when RED contacts you for your order

KNOWN PROBLEMS
Faulty LCD cables (being replaced)

RECODE IN FINAL CUT STUDIO
not in current version of 6.0

RECODE IN AVID
(working on it)

REDCODE IN PREMIERE
(working on it)

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

I also agree it's not a good idea, and very un-democratic.
Look at me: I have been supporting this project from the very first thread that started on dvinfo. I don't have they money for a RED camera, not by a long shot, but I'm at this board every day, because it interests me.
If I know information, and I can help, I do.

I'm now planning in a meeting with producers, and IF we'll get funds (in Belgium, all professional movies are shot with the funds of our country), I'll try to shoot on a RED (I'm almost positive that will work, because the RED is low cost - high quality - something producers like) ...
How do you think that I would inform my producers and my DOP about the RED camera if the board would be exclusive to owners...?
Maybe (and I'm dreaming here, because first the producers have to LIKE my idea for the movie, only THEN will it get developed and only THEN will we begin shooting in a later stage) we will buy the camera, but maybe we'll rent it...

I do agree that sometimes there is a bit too much 'noise' on this board.
Maybe sometimes too much 'great!' - posts without further explanation.
I don't mind a fanboyish reaction, because if I'm honest, you could consider me as a RED-fanboy too, but you have to argument why, and not just fanboyish posts, but something that contributes for others.
Or, if people have criticism that's vallid, don't attack them. It's pretty okay in this board, just sometimes...

But all in all: please keep this forum open for everyone...
I also really don't see the real benefit for an extra section for owners...? What can they say that other people aren't allowed to read?
You can't compare this board with IMDB, really...

[Lucas Wilson]

Red knows who the reservation holders are and who they have delivered to. It's only a matter of providing a password to qualified members. I think that people that have an actual commitment deserve a private forum.

Then go create one! The web is a big and wonderful place. : )

Jarred does a great job of separating wheat from chaff here. Is there a lot of fanboy stuff here? Yep, sure... but it takes me about 2 seconds in any particular thread to decide whether I want to read it or not.

If I want RED with a positive spin, I come here. If I want RED with a negative spin, I go to cinematography.com. If I want RED with a "I remember when I was a boy we had to walk to school through 50 miles of snow..." spin, I go to CML. If I want good recipes, I go to epicurious, and for fairly unbiased news, I read the Christian Science Monitor.

You are always welcome to create your own forum if the ones you visit don't appeal to you. :)

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

[PaulClements]

Hi,

This idea is bizarre. Who is going to want to share their trade secrets with their competitors in a closed forum? By contrast sharing such information with the general cinematography community makes you a commodity of knowledge that people recognise and value.

I agree with Luki. Make a new forum. But I doubt many people would use it, if it was done here I for one would dislike it. If you don't like reading junk then online forums is probably not a good place to hang out. Not everything written is going to be akin to library book knowledge but if you can learn to filter the good bits in a forum such as this you will learn a great deal more than you would in a closed forum.

Paul

[Tom Lowe]

Um, really bad idea.

[wshultz]

Most of the responders are talking out of their ass. They have no f'ing clue to what they are responding to. Pardon my frustration. It's time to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Here we go with another self-appointed Red policeman. Why are there always some people who think they can decide for the rest which people get to participate? BTW, the only person I've ever seen actually talk out of his ass is Jim Carrey. And I suspect there was some sort of ventriloquism involved.

[Craig Schober]

Here we go with another self-appointed Red policeman. Why are there always some people who think they can decide for the rest which people get to participate? BTW, the only person I've ever seen actually talk out of his ass is Jim Carrey. And I suspect there was some sort of ventriloquism involved.

i don't think it's a red policeman so much as a frustrated red info seeker that can't seem to find the info quick enough or without sifting through fanboy stuff. welcome to online forums. you'll never be rid of that when you open up the forum to general public. but it sure beats a closed forum where idea exchange is heavily filtered (except this filter runs between this little club and the rest of the world). you think you get trampled now for writing out of line? just wait until you join a private forum.

i think a new "private" section could be in order but why limit the readers? if anything, you could limit the posters in one area so that only certain knowledgable members maintain a dialogue. all others are welcome to read and decide for themselves. kind of like red's approach to shows like nab and ibc. i would gladly visit this section from time to time for reading and when i get my camera soon, i might even consider joining it eventually.

let's let whoever wants a perfect reduser site full of only real redusers that they deem appropriate form their own forum. and let's keep this forum going the way it has with small incremental improvements over time to match the growing community.

[Brandon Fraley]

i agree that a "private forum" is a bad idea.

The only compromise I can see maybe making as another forum where only owners can post, but EVERYONE can READ. that way you weed out the trolls (do we have trolls?) but the info is still available to everyone.

i dunno, still seems a little extreme though...

[Owen James]

...I second David Farland's comments:


I think it's a completely dumb idea that'll bring down the collective knowledge of this forum no end!
It sounds just like the antithesis of Red's open policy and will probably end up narrow as other forums that insist on 20 years experience or else your opinion isn't welcome.
I learn a lot from everybody on this forum...it's bit like democracy where everyone can voice an opinion no matter how ill informed, discriminatory or short sighted it is.....because that avenue is the same that words of wisdom appear...from camera owner or not.

Cheers,

[Ramesh Jai]

Then go create one! The web is a big and wonderful place. : )

Jarred does a great job of separating wheat from chaff here. Is there a lot of fanboy stuff here? Yep, sure... but it takes me about 2 seconds in any particular thread to decide whether I want to read it or not.

If I want RED with a positive spin, I come here. If I want RED with a negative spin, I go to cinematography.com. If I want RED with a "I remember when I was a boy we had to walk to school through 50 miles of snow..." spin, I go to CML. If I want good recipes, I go to epicurious, and for fairly unbiased news, I read the Christian Science Monitor.

You are always welcome to create your own forum if the ones you visit don't appeal to you. :)

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
I like the way you put the 'smiley' even though you sound absolutely pissed off!

[mezmo]

I think that it is finally time to form a true Reduser.net for actual Red One owners and reservation holders. Too much speculation going on the original site. Time for true facts and observations in an educated forum. I think that fanboy time is over. What do you think Jim and Jared?
Hi Awengert,
A hell of a lot of cameras have been sold or reserved by fanboys.
Seem's to be part of the marketing strategy as far as I can see.
If only well informed owners and Res holders can discover Red by way
of Reduser.net, don't you think that's a little odd?
And a deterent to the acceptability of this system into the industry at large.
We were all fanboys at some point and excluding them and other
potential Red owners from gaining practial information on the everyday
workings and issues associated with this camera is a really really bad idea IMHO.
Mezmo

[Lucas Wilson]

I like the way you put the 'smiley' even though you sound absolutely pissed off!

My friend... if you knew me, you would know that this is very very very far from how I sound when I'm pissed off. :w00t:

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

[Hitman Jr]

A camera built by a company that believes in keeping their potential user base informed with a level of corporate transparency pretty much unknown in any business... And you want to create a password protected forum where only those with the $$ can get in and share in the knowledge. :angry02:

There are plenty of good ol' boys clubs out there, but I thought RED was something different.

[Chris Kenny]

I think having an exclusionary board would be detrimental to the community.

A better way for Red to address people's concerns about having to wade through nonsense on forums would be to provide more information through official channels. Maybe an official Red blog, that Red Team members could post to when there was news about an aspect of the camera they were responsible for? (This could actually save time for the Red Team, since things could be posted once instead of often being repeated many times in the forums.)

[Alex Wengert]

It's good to see that everyone is so passionate about this project. I like Jarred's suggestion of having a thread focused on hard facts and information. That is the main reason I view this forum. This forum is really the only source of information regarding the development of this incredible product. Looking forward to taking delivery of our 5 cameras and contributing to the legacy of this cutting edge product. Peace

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Red knows who the reservation holders are and who they have delivered to. It's only a matter of providing a password to qualified members. I think that people that have an actual commitment deserve a private forum.

I'm coming into this thread late... I haven't had time to read all the posts yet, but I just have to jump in and get this off my chest. This is only my opinion and don't consider this a personal attack...

This is a completely stupid and insulting idea. It goes against what I (and others, based on some of the other posts I've read so far) believe that RED stands for. They are open, transparent and supportive to every level of production.

So what in fact is being suggested is an elitist club of current owners and reservation holders. How will that guarantee more concise facts or usable posts? As more cameras are available for use out in the world, how will such a forum determine access privileges for those who "deserve" to belong? Surely, just mere ownership of a RED camera can't be the factor... What about employees of a production company that owns RED cameras? What about DPs / cinematographers who choose to rent RED on a regular basis, but not to own one? Are they not allowed to be part of the forum?

These forums as they exist now are as good as it's going to get. I do think we could use a few more forum sections like maybe an owners forum for one (there's a few other forums that I think would be useful).

I've belonged to several membership-only type forums and elitist sites with an entry clause... That ensures nothing of what one will find inside and I would most likely opt out of such a forum for RED. If I'm going to take the time to post information, test results, footage, etc.. I want it to be available to everyone. That includes budding film students or interested hobbyists who may be interested in buying a RED someday. Everyone... Not just the privileged few who have plunked down some money for a reservation. And who is going to guarantee that every single one of them has noble intentions if allowed into such a forum or that they will even follow through with purchasing the camera or providing reliable and useful contributions to such a forum?

OK, who wants the soapbox next?

[SalaTar]

This forum is already alienated many users.
Due to Management

[number6]

Pretty soon after setting up an ouners only forum, one would realize that only about 2% of those who currently post would be excluded. And quite frankly, that 2% would probably be more valuable than 20% of those like me, a double time-stamp holder. Before long, someone in the new "exclusive forum" would suggest an even more exclusive forum to weed out those of us who "steal" knowledge from the rest of you without really contributing anything more than an occasional personal opinion. I think eventually Awengert would end up in a forum of people like himself... a forum of one.

[SalaTar]

"Where am I?"
"In the Village."
"What do you want?"
"Information."
"Whose side are you on?"
"That would be telling.... We want information. Information! INFORMATION!" (Some fans hear "In formation!")
"You won't get it."
"By hook or by crook, we will."
"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six."(May be an answer - You are, Number Six)
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"
(Laughter from Number Two.)

[Gavin Greenwalt]

(I'm skipping all the circular arguements and just going to go ahead and stir the pot some myself.)

To Parent:
Ahhh yes. Because only people who own the equipment should know how to use it. Renters, post professionals and directors shouldn't be 'in on the goods'.

Obviously we can't include Stephen Williams or David Mullen ASC (I just like adding it because it's almost like his last name now. ) If they had something interesting to add to the discussion they would be reservation holders.

We wouldn't want to include anybody who's actually touched/handled/worked with the camera but doesn't have a reservation themselves. Sorry Brook no helpfuly FAQs in the 'Pro' forum. Same to the rest of you who helped out on the OffHollywood shoot.

Wouldn't want to include people who work at RED but don't have a reservation #. Sorry Graeme. No reservation #... no access.

We can also cut out myself, Chuck I don't see a res# in your profile. Guess we don't need to know anything about lenses... Finner doesn't know anything he just uses cameras... but you gotta own it to know how it works, Poor Bruce Allen guess he's spending too much time working on projects that don't require shooting live action plates... because if he didn't he might have justified buying a camera... as it is... he's pretty much useless to the RED collective knowledge. Stuart do you get a camera? Is that a company perk or do you just borrow Jim's? If it's the later then we also don't care what you think apparently. And you may or may not get HKSC's beautiful and insightful haikus... I can't tell if #x68 is another tiny haiku or actually a reservation #.

[david farland]

I've got an idea........

1. Close this thread as nobody wants this elistist bullshit club!

2. open another thread with suggestions on how the site could be improved.

Cheers,

[Darwin]

Jarred Said
"dont worry.. the fans will change to users pretty soon. Maybe ill add a "actual users section" though...?"
That's one little section not the hole dam bord! No one is takeing anything from anyone. Why would anyone who does not have a reservation # need to know or even care about a delivery date for a camera they are not getting in the first place. Or something specific to the owner. Or to vote in a poll ment for RED owners, often are skewed by people who have no business voting in the first place. If Jim sends a e-mail to all the reservation holders, and not to every REDUSER member, is that wrong as well.....That is the other side of the coin. Ask yourself...do you really care that much if a user section exist on this bord?

[Hans von Sonntag]

I've got an idea........

1. Close this thread as nobody wants this elistist bullshit club!

2. open another thread with suggestions on how the site could be improved.

Cheers,

I second that.

Open mind - open board. RED has beeen very sucessful with that. Don't change a running system...

Hans

[Gavin Greenwalt]

But if the purpose of said proposed forum is for official announcements only that would very easily be served by having a locked sticky where only Official RED Mouthpieces can post.

I just don't see any use for a RED Owner's only forum. I have no idea what you would discuss there where non-owners would have a less valid input.

The exception is something like C.net's Black List which is exclusive and invite only. Even that would be stupid if it was limited to "only people with imdb credits" because that for instance would cut out the entire TV Commercial industry of cinematographers.

Any exclusive list needs to be exclusive for a reason.

If it's technical or hands on then renters need to be informed. So reservation holders would be a poor demographic to limit said forums to.

If it's procedural aka delivery schedules etc then there is really no reason to reply at all and a sticky would be best.

The OP was not asking for a special forum to better communicate delivery schedules it sounded very much like he wanted a locked forum where only important and insightful aka reservation holders would be able to discuss without all the riff raff making uniformed and uninsightful comments on everything.


Most of the responders are talking out of their ass. They have no f'ing clue to what they are responding to. Pardon my frustration. It's time to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I interpret that post to mean:

"I'm tired of stupid pointless posts and I want an exclusive area where we can talk like civilized human beings about real problems without the plebs making dumb comments."

[WILLIAM SPENCE]

I don't have the money right now to purchase a Red One. But I have been to this site at least 3 times a day since it opened. I am an engineer turned videographer and have found this project to be fascinating. I have learned about lighting, about imaging chips from reading Graemes posts, about the pros and cons of various matteboxes by reading Brook and CBV's posts, and the list goes on and on. I am a reader and I have learned so much from everyone who takes the time to post on this site. I have lot of respect for Jim Janaard, and I agree with those who say that the Red philosophy has been one of an open process. I know that professionals who own a camera want to get suggestions directly from other users, so I would not be totally opposed to a section where only owners can post. But please don't take away the privelege of everyone having the right to at least READ the educational posts that this great community offers. Overall, I think it is a bad idea, but this would be an acceptable compromise. That's my vote.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Now something I would completely support but would require a complete rewrite of the REDuser.net code would be some sort of Karma system where you could quickly filter through the moderated posts to find the most useful and insightful posts as rated by the users.

[Darwin]

im.thatoneguy
You make some valid points. I was just offering another side. As a community we are on the same side :)

[Edmund Boyle]

I was surprised by the suggestion that someone would want to close off the openness and valid opinions by users other than reservation holders and camera owners. There is many other industry professionals who will never own a Red but still have an active input into its creative development. As yet I dont have a Red or the funds to purchase one but the hope is one day soon I will.

I have learned so much on Reduser and appreciate the freeflow of infromation from all involved , as in the Red company itself, the many valued contributer's such as Gibby, Dave Mullen, Chuck Coburn, Jeff Kilgroe etc., etc.

I feel passionate about keeping the forum and ideas open where everybody can learn, so much so, that I had to look up a quote I'd heard it a few times and felt it should be said. Its the meanining within the context of the quote that applies here and not meant to offend anybody's sensitiivity on its use from a historical past.

(It is a poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) sometimes disputed)


When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

[Martin Drew]

This would be a really bad idea. I assume it is born of the frustration with the amount of speculation, this will pass as more and more posters become owners. This forum is currently in transisition, lets just give it time...

M

[oldphart]

This would be a really bad idea. I assume it is born of the frustration with the amount of speculation, this will pass as more and more posters become owners. This forum is currently in transisition, lets just give it time...

M

Let us put it to the vote! In the spirit of the proposal, $1k invested in Red stuff will get you one vote. Then we all wait to see how many votes Jim has...

[Hrvoje Simic]

New specific threads = smart thinking
Forum expansion according to the need = smart thinking

Elitism, separation = interaction limiting = mentally challenged


"I am God. Those who are not worthy shall not enter."


Another ego blowout.

[planet e]

harsh thread. i think awengert is expressing a legitimate frustration. i'm a daily user, and i often find out that i've missed some good stuff and spend a lot of time weeding through lengthy threads of non-information. i especially get frustrated if i miss something like the updated delivery schedule, which took me three days to discover after it posted. that's pretty crucial info.

the proposed solution of a password-protected space or a users' only site is misguided, perhaps. and completely misaligned with the philosophy of RED.

plus, for a lot of users, this is a social and networking space as much as an informational space, and it needs to continue support that function.

but i wouldn't mind something like a weekly update, where someone like jeff or another moderator compiles the vital info for the week--the greatest hits. that would be a really useful feature, that would alleviate some of awengert's frustration (or at least my own, i can't really speak for others...) while also keeping this space exactly what it is. if jarred or whomever decides these things, wants to anoint me as a moderator, specifically with this task in mind, i would even step up to do that solitary task. i think it is that important. (mostly, however, i would be happy for someone else to do it!)

there's a lot to be said for the free-for-all nature of reduser, there's a lot of creative energy at work here, which comes directly from that vibe. it's the birthing crucible of RED, and any effort at stripping it away deteriorates the spirit of the project.

but i think there are definitely ways to get better information into the hands of those of us who are closely monitoring these developments and closely tracking our investments in the camera.

[REDHKSC]

May I have an idea that " Let's REDies ( RED one owners ) to act as helpers to help people to help themself in the RED based Content Creation Space ?

1+1 = 5,6,7 and we have few thousands RED helpers.....that's the

" RED Power to the people " .
STEW

[Jay A. Kelley]

You are speaking of info from RED and I agree. This can be accomplished by putting up a sticky, and any official info from RED goes there, except the THREAD is CLOSED. So we do not have to weed through 200 WOWs I love its, and you're the greatest!

I would agree with this portion of the idea. As for the rest, soon 90% of this board will all be owners/operators

Jay

[Jarred Land]

let me make myself clear.. there will be no closed section on reduser for owners.. if that was implied by the person that requested it, thats not what i would agree with. Just a section of owners that can take to each other, but everyone can read.

[wshultz]

:) How about a sticky poll that automatically pops up anytime Jim J. posts and we read it the first time. You could choose from the following:

1-Film is dead!
2-And they said it was vaporware...
3-You're my hero!
4-I've believed from the beginning.
5-We're with ya Jim!
6-(your idea here)
7-Wait! I have something to add!

The last one will return you to the forum.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

but i wouldn't mind something like a weekly update, where someone like jeff or another moderator compiles the vital info for the week--the greatest hits.

That's not a bad suggestion. I've been pretty busy lately, but I might take a stab at doing a weekly summary of some sort.

I know my last post was sharp in tone, and I still stand by what I said. But I too understand awngert's frustrations. There's a lot of traffic on these forums and a lot of stuff to sort through in order to reach the good bits.

This is a tough thread, but there's some good discussion in here if you look for it. I don't have any real suggestions on what could be done to improve information flow and reliability on this site. Of course, us moderators could crack down and butcher threads to make sure they stay on topic with concise info. But I'm not a fan of doing that... I much prefer the free-flowing demeanor around here. For now, I think the best bet is for everyone, as a community, to try and not crap in usable threads or drive threads into OT discussion. Perhaps we could use a couple more forums here to better separate discussions. I think we could use a forum to discuss third-party hardware and accessories. A large portion of the discussions on this site are just that and they are scattered everywhere for lack of a proper location.

[Jarred Land]

thats a good idea jeff....

we could make it like a weekly bulletin.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'll give it a try and see what people think. First one will be up in a day or so after I search through the forums and my own notes.

It was Planet e's suggestion, so I'm not taking credit for the idea.

[planet e]

jeff? jeff?? that was my idea! don't i get a point on my score card??

oops, thanks jeff, for the correction...yer a good guy!

and p.s., thanks for taking it on. it's a good bit of work, no doubt, but i'll look forward to it...

[Dominique Grenier]

Personnaly, the ONLY reason I see for such a forum, would be some sort of "troubleshooting", like "Hey, how do you...". But I don't think it would need to be private, just a seperate one. As long as the moderators keep it on topic, just like they do in other forum.... That's what's being done on other forums (such as DVXUsers) and it is working great...

[Dan Blanchett]

thats a good idea jeff....

we could make it like a weekly bulletin.

Good idea. In fact, critical info (like shipping changes) maybe should be updated mid-week or whenever it's posted. Then users can subscribe to the "bulletin" and get emailed whenever that thread is updated.

[David Battistella]

I'll give it a try and see what people think. First one will be up in a day or so after I search through the forums and my own notes.

It was Planet e's suggestion, so I'm not taking credit for the idea.

Jeff,

The back half of post #24 in this thread might be a starting point.

David

[David Battistella]

thats a good idea jeff....

we could make it like a weekly bulletin.


Jarred,
I PM'd you about this but your PM box is full. Go figure....:-)

[Sam Druckerman]

The poll idea...... LOL Perfect! Too Funny.

Weekly bulletin..... A++++++

A board for owners to post, but open for everyone to read...... "A cut to the chase" board without a lot of the noise makes sense when you consider how many posts are on reduser and how time consuming it is to try to keep up....

You could combine the poll & bulletin ideas with a sticky in the owners board and include a graph......

"This week we had 19 'that a boys', also the 'Film is dead' posts are up 3% from the week before and a whopping 42% from last year...." :-)

[Gavin Greenwalt]

:) How about a sticky poll that automatically pops up anytime Jim J. posts and we read it the first time. You could choose from the following:

1-Film is dead!
2-And they said it was vaporware...
3-You're my hero!
4-I've believed from the beginning.
5-We're with ya Jim!
6-(your idea here)
7-Wait! I have something to add!

The last one will return you to the forum.

:sorcerer: