Group huddle (personal advice) [Archive]

Holosynthetic

02-01-2007, 03:11 PM

As a person with a passion for film, acting, and story telling; I feel as if everyone here really understands my pain and suffering when it comes to buying equipment. I'm in a situation where I'm lucky enough to have the ability to purchase the things I want instead of only the necessities. I guess what I am really trying to get out is whether or not the rest of you would spend every last penny you had on the things that you believe in most, in this particular case, film. I hear about directors selling their houses in order to gather the funds to produce a picture show, a commitment not many people I know would share.

how far would you go to pursue your dreams in film? what would you sacrifice?

Those of you following the thread about the Elite s35 lenses will know what I go on about. Something to do with spending ~$40k or upwards of $100k for cine lenses

Jason Francois

02-01-2007, 03:51 PM

Wow, this is the kind of thing I've wanted to open a dialogue about, but have been to fearful of what people might actually say. I can imagine that there are a lot of different thoughts on this simply based on everybody's individual life experience.

I for one am one of those directors that put everything on the line to make my first feature. I didn't have a house, but I spent downpayment money on my movie, so I guess I gave up my house. :)

It took me many years to recover, so in real-world experience I wouldn't do it again...at least not the exact same way.

Passion is what passion is. If you're truly passionate about something then you can't run from it.

I'm not even concerned with whether or not I will ever achieve my highest, creative dream, but I have to keep trying. Actually, I make some shitty things from time to time, but passion won't let me sleep unless I keep trying. Every time I'm on a shot I end up wanting to kill somebody or myself and I swear I'll never do it again, but passion won't let me stop.

So, I am willing to keep putting a lot out there to keep feeding the passion. My wife and I live pretty comfortably, but if it weren't for my film dreams, we could live even better, but I wouldn't have it any other way. My wife would (we're still arguing about RED), but I wouldn't.

We're actually just getting ready to downsize our lives considerably to allow more money for college funds and filmmaking, so I'm the wrong person to ask it you're trying to have some sense knocked into you. If you're looking for validation for chasing dreams that reasonable people should know not to chase, then I'm your man. :)

People are always on my case, because I want this camera and say that a director has no reason to spend $40k+ to have a camera that I only hope to learn to use. They're absolutely right...and I don't care. I could be driving a Porsche instead and rent my cameras and gear when i need it, but I have control issues. :) I also want to be reminded of my passion every time I get in my non-Porsche car and drive off to work on a project. We are all motivated in different way.

As for the lens issue, i feel that there are plenty of good options out there for imaging that would please 95% of people watching your end product. So, get some nice lenses and shoot away, but when needed go and rent the really high-end kit.

That said, if you're anything like me you'll not pay a bit of attention to my opinion. :)

Jason

Hrvoje Simic

02-01-2007, 04:19 PM

Believing is good.
If you really believe you will do everything else you have to.
Knowledge, experience......
After believing you will need the will power. Don't think it will be easy. It won't. Nothing really good comes easy.
If it did you wouldn't value it so much. food for thoughts

Many people discard their dreams because that's the easier way.
Dreams don't come cheap.

What others would sacrifice has nothing to do with you.
Their priorities aren't the same as yours. You have to set your own plans, goals and boundaries.

The more objective you are in doing that, the higher chances are you will succeed.

Curran Giddens

02-02-2007, 05:53 AM

I'm 27 years old and I've never owned a car. I used to have an awesome surround sound speaker system (B&W Nautilus 802's, 805's, and HTM2), a 50" HDTV, and a premium digital cable service. Now I watch the absolute cheapest basic cable TV, on a 10 year old CRT computer monitor with headphones for speakers. Pretty substantial sacrifice when you consider my friends are getting new HDTV's, HD Satellite service with all the premium channels, and then sitting around playing Playstation 3 all day.

I decided to save all my money and buy all the equipment necessary to start my own production company. I plan on purchasing all the equipment upfront by myself. Only the best quality equipment, and only the necessities. If the business fails, I can do whatever I want with the equipment. Clients will pay to have their projects produced by my production company, and that money will pay my employees weekly wages. When not working on projects for clients, my employees will be working on my own movie. Investors will pay for actors, props, location shoots, promotion, etc., for my own movie. I have my own other source of income from the freelance typesetting work I do currently to pay for everything else (rent, bills, insurance, craft services, etc.).

Looking to specialize in vfx greenscreen shoots and post-production. I am also looking to purchase a motion control rig like the Mark Roberts UltiHead http://www.mrmoco.com/index2.htm with track, lift, roll, remote head with follow focus. But I'm hoping Curt will come up with something as good for a much cheaper price. I will probably spend over 100k on gear, and another 50k+ when something like the 25kW SES Dish Stirling system http://www.stirlingenergy.com/ is available to small businesses.

I do have a little experience with greenscreen studio shoots, motion tracking data in Maya, 3D backgrounds, rotoscoping, supercloning, and compositing, etc. I used to work on post-production for a TV show ("The Book of Pooh") on the Playhouse Disney channel. I've done a few freelance post-production jobs from home since then, including the Fisher Price Little People series that comes with the toys.

Michael Schrengohst

02-02-2007, 06:53 AM

I have been doing this for 27 years, so many of you were babies when I started....I have many friends who wanted to be the next Spielberg and spent every dime they had on their film. Most never recovered from that experience and many left the business altogether. I do remember one guy from the early 90's who did it one step at a time. He is the guy who created Jimmy Neutron and just directed Ant Bully for Tom Hanks. He used to do some low-budget animation's for us. I am still looking around for the cell artwork they did of a BlockBuster internal video we produced. The gear will only get you so far. Once you buy the gear it is only worth what you can produce with it. In 3 years that shiny new RED will be a paperweight. At least I hope it can be upgraded as opposed to sell it for $1500 and get the RED2. My first BetaCam cost $35,000 in 1985. Then in 1990 it was another $75,000 for an edit bay. And every year a new guy comes into the business with better toys. It never stops. So now all the HDCAM shooters and 35MM DP's are groaning about the RED. Some want to embrace this whole idea while others are pooping on the premise. Either way, I have my reservation in - but "the gear will only get you so far."

Jason Francois

02-02-2007, 08:21 AM

"the gear will only get you so far."

Very true.

Finner

02-02-2007, 09:10 AM

You don't have to eat kraft dinner for every meal to make it. Take one step at a time and do your best while taking those steps. Employers look for someone with a well balanced life for a reason, they make it.

Enjoy life don't put everything you have into your bussiness just get balanced and do your best. It takes a while but people make it.

xin

02-02-2007, 09:37 AM

Jason Francois

02-02-2007, 09:59 AM

Also, to be politely honest there is sharing. Maybe we don't need an uber-individualist community. Does everyone need to have their own RED and SuperComputers and Studio Monitors and etc. in an Indy community? (sure it's easier, but need?)

If you have a good indy community around there should be no reason why people couldn't help each other out; be it through the connections and resources of REDuser, DVXuser, or your neighborhood film students and producers. You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. And if there's not a good indy community around you, no reason you couldn't help create one RIGHT NOW.

Or maybe that's just my misguided Midwestern sensibilities, or maybe I'm just a dirty Communist. Who knows.

It sounds really good in theory and it is a very valid idea. It's what I hope to do with my gear if I follow through on all this.

The problem with communism is that it doesn't take long for people to start getting greedy again and irrational in their entitlement, so then it ruins it for everybody.

We have a touch and go kind of indie community here in Phx, but I'm trying as hard as a can to put my energy in places that will make a difference and help those that are growing the community.

We'll see how it turns out.

donatello b

02-02-2007, 10:08 AM

i have a friend that has been homeless for 3 years .. lives out of his car ... any extra $$ he gets he spends it on a film doc project he's been working on the past 15 years ... he just got $10K from a estate ... he is using it to telecine 10,000ft of 16mm to tape, buy a laptop to edit ...he plans to stay living out of his car ...
at 56yrs my brian just can't imagine putting everything on the line ..
my current limit is around 60k .. ( think when i reserved at NAB i was thinkin around 40k) .... i have no plans to rent RED 103 so my brain just can't take the thought of 100k sitting in the closet !!!

Hrvoje Simic

02-02-2007, 10:11 AM

Also, to be politely honest there is sharing. Maybe we don't need an uber-individualist community. Does everyone need to have their own RED and SuperComputers and Studio Monitors and etc. in an Indy community? (sure it's easier, but need?)

If you have a good indy community around there should be no reason why people couldn't help each other out; be it through the connections and resources of REDuser, DVXuser, or your neighborhood film students and producers. You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. And if there's not a good indy community around you, no reason you couldn't help create one RIGHT NOW.

Or maybe that's just my misguided Midwestern sensibilities, or maybe I'm just a dirty Communist. Who knows.

I think many people share the similar idea,

but it takes only a few suckers to start missusing this community
and lazyness and greed kick in, which start the chain reaction
....and it all falls apart

Michael Schrengohst

02-02-2007, 11:53 AM

Holosynthetic

02-02-2007, 12:10 PM

I really appreciate everyone telling stories and being honest, thats what I wanted most out of this thread. Some of these stories really hit home with me, coming up later this year I will be selling some property on the east coast (I live on the west coast so its a hassle), and with that money all I can think about is buying the equipment I need so I don't have to sacrifice my vision.

I really like the idea of sharing, while it can be tricky I would love to see how it works out.

Eventually when I get a set of Zeiss Master Primes, I'll let someone borrow them with my supervision if they would do me the favor of helping me set up lighting and green screens for my short film...

Gbabymogul

02-02-2007, 01:23 PM

T'is coincidental you bring this up now. On some other forums i've been seeing these very cynical and condescending posts about RED reservationists. I've wanted to respond there, but your post struck me as really honest, and hence a more apppropriate place.

Oft times, I feel out of the loop a bit too. It's hard to quantify a passion or put labels or qualifications on it, for me. Maybe it's something like Van Gogh spending hours in the fields waiting for the perfect light to touch his ideal, or Modigliani doing the same curve of a womans hip over and over until he's felt it captures the beauty of her expression. Perhaps, it's Mozart living without heat and spending what little meager earnings he had on pen and paper (he died in a paupers grave). By NO means would i compare my abilities with them, but there is a kinship to the desire to communicate, to elevate, and most of all to express our own understanding of the panoply of humanity.

Maybe it's because I started later in media - film making (hopefully), but once I knew that this passion i've had since i first felt another person/film maker "got" what my experience was like in life, was the only endeavour i wanted to pursue - there was no turning back, no detours or exceptions. For me, the sacrifice is not a pragmatic one, or even societally sanctioned (my family is full of dreamers and inventors). Like a drug addict i need to feed my habit.

Whereas others may tell you to start small and make baby steps to your goal, I am a firm believer that no one can tell you the path to take, for if it is a passion that can't be rationalized or objectively quantified, then the individual will always follow it, regardless. Take into account the absolute minimum to achieve your artistic goals (renting in some cases is better), spend your funds wisely, and enjoy the craft of creation. If it isn't that Van Gogh type passion, then there are myriad ways to achive your objectives as a working professional in the industry, for fortitude and perseverance are more important than anything else (this ain't rocket science its film making).

I can't tell you what type of gear to buy (although I think you may get the same results with a Russian lense kit at a tenth the price) but as someone who's moving into a smaller office, spending their savings, forgoing a fancy wedding, and a plethora of other sacrifices; I can dig where you're at. For me, if i can reach that one person who sees my film and says "yeah, that guy really gets what i've been through" or " there's poetry there to love", then the sacrifices would be worth it ...

Please forgive the long post, but some of these pros condesencion of others has bothered me for awhile. Especially when they assign psychological parameters to reservationists as if they could know what drives a person.

There's a couple quotes that sum up, the aforementioned, better than I could.

"I passionately hate the idea of being with it; I think an artist has always to be out of step with his time."
- Orson Welles

"It is true of the Nation, as of the individual, that the greatest doer must also be a great dreamer."
Berkeley, CA, 1911
-Teddy Roosevelt

:beer:

sean90291

02-02-2007, 02:26 PM

My sister wanted a laptop. As a the geek in the family, she turned to me for advice. I said, "Go to the Dell website, pick the absolutely cheapest laptop you can find, and do not, I repeat DO NOT, add on anything other than what is offered in the base price. All those extras are a devious trap." I told her she could meet her needs for $600. So what does she do? She buys this widescreen, dual-layer DVD burning, graphics processing powerhouse, and it cost her triple what I suggested. She doesn't use a tenth of what the computer can offer, and for that matter she doesn't even even have the need or know-how. She surfs the net and plays MP3's.

I see a lot of posts on DVXUser and RedUser telling people exactly what they "must" have for a workable Red system, with giant computers with raids and megastorage and six lenses and special tripods and matteboxes and lights and how it will all cost you $60,000 or more to even play the game. That is also a trap. I don't believe it for a second. I see these short films made with amazing equipment and top-notch effects and they are, for the most part, vacuous. Pretty but vacuous. And I see little films made with no equipment that blow my mind. I know, there's a balance--good equipment and production values AND a good concept/story/script will give you something that puts you on the map. But if you've never even shot a film, I believe the best thing you do with that cash from your east coast real estate is buy that Red and three Nikon primes and borrow or rent every last other item on an as-you-need-it basis.

Yes, I do say buy the Red. Because you're obviously passionate enough to be spending that new-found money on it over anything else. That's a good sign. And I do think having that expensive camera staring you in the face every morning will probably put a fire under your feet to get out and shoot something. And if it sucks, well, truly, $22,000 for a working camera so that you can explore a passion and a potential career isn't that much (for us spoiled North Americans). And the biggest reason for spending less not more right now: if you're any good as a filmmaker and continue to maintain this passion, you will REALLY want most of that cash to give you the time and resources to write and develop a script and throw a bit of money into the projects themselves. It's harder to do anything when you're working 9-6 to pay the rent; no amount of equipment will help you there. I took six months off to edit my first film that I shot with no dolley, borrowed lights and a DVX100A.

See there's nothing worse than having all these ideas for films and no resources to make them. So I say get the basics (not what some guys will tell you are the basics). I'm talking TRULY the basics. You don't need to master your first film in 4K and so you don't need a huge edit suite capable of 4K either. Not yet. As you grow, your equipment list can grow too.

The Red is most interesting to me because it straddles the DIY indie world and the pro world. Yes, George Lucas might shoot with it. But that doesn't mean you will use it the same way as George Lucas. Buy it with a filmmaking friend and you're suddenly looking at a great camera for around $11,000

Mark Thorpe

02-02-2007, 02:53 PM

I have no house

I have a wreck of a Jeep

I have no debt (now thats a bonus)

I have no wife

I have no Kids

I have no Plasma TV

I have no distractions

I have no vices (don't drink, don't smoke)

I am happy because.........

I do have vision

I do have ambition

I do have a (small) reputation

I do have belief

I do have the Ocean

I do have inner peace

My goal to achieve drives me above all other necessities.

donatello b

02-02-2007, 03:13 PM

"Does he understand that when he is done with the film he will just get screwed over by the distributors."

he's not expecting to make any $$ ...and i should say it is "art" to him ... he has his films over at Canyon Cinema Distribution ... he plans to send it to some film festivals ( that he considers ART film festivals - ann arbor film fest type ) ...

http://www.canyoncinema.com/contents.html

sean90291

02-02-2007, 03:27 PM

CamDiver, you're truly the man who has everything. Palau here I come. :-) Now if I only knew where the hell that was.

Chris Kenny

02-02-2007, 10:14 PM

I really don't think this idea of putting everything on the line for your vision applies as much in a digital world. With film, if you really want to make a movie that nobody will fund, you go into debt, sell your stuff, etc. and spend the money on camera rental, film stock, telecine, opticals, whatever... and at the end (assuming your money actually holds out), you have a conformed negative, and basically nothing else. If someone comes along and buys the movie, great. If not, you're basically screwed.

Now, for less than the price of paying for all of the above for a single movie, you can buy a camera package and an editing system outright, and the only completely unavoidable per-feature cost becomes a couple thousand bucks worth of hard drives. If nobody buys your first feature, make another. And another. You own equipment which you can rent out during your downtime, and which can be used for whatever shooting or editing jobs you can find. And if you ever really decide to call it quits, you can probably sell your equipment for a decent fraction of what you paid for it.

While buying a Red package might still impose significant financial hardship on some people, when compared with throwing your entire net worth into making a 35mm film, with Red you're taking less risk and you have a much better chance of getting a return on your investment.

ghostcar

02-03-2007, 12:34 AM

I`ve read that everyone in this forum is at different levels of commitment to their craft and or vision. I agree with Finner and also with finding a way to complete your vision without too much harm to yourself and those who care for you. Making the picture will not be easy. Making a great mass appeal film is very difficult they are far and few between the thousands made. Do you your best and get as much help as you can along the way. But remember we want you alive/sane/happy so we can learn and be enlightened by your vision.:)

Jason Francois

02-03-2007, 08:53 AM

Well, I stand corrected...there ARE plenty of people around here that "get it".

this thread has been really good to see different people's take on this situation.

It looks like to me that if you average out the advice, it's pretty much comes down to following your passion without destroying yourself.

Lead with your heart and follow with an educated mind.

CamDiver. I like how you laid out your list. I have many of the things you say you don't have, but I'm still desiring many of the things that you DO have. Cheers to you and all the posters. :)

Holosynthetic

02-03-2007, 02:15 PM

What if a person were in a situation where renting wasn't possible and the only way to use something was to purchase it?

Rental houses usually check your credit, so if the person trying to rent didn't have much credit and was self employed with very little income at the moment (with a very healthy amount growing annually in the market), what could they do?

Curran Giddens

02-03-2007, 03:10 PM

You could do what I'm going to do. I justify purchasing all the equipment myself by starting a production company. It's an investment in my own business. It doesn't mean I actually have to work on any projects but my own. heh heh

Holosynthetic

02-03-2007, 03:24 PM

Jason Francois

02-03-2007, 06:12 PM

I guess the next logical question I should ask is...who has the business know how on "what to do" to save money by starting a production company (any laws, tax benefits I could take advantage of?) and whether or not they could throw some tips my way.

I would say it would be money well spent to hire (even for an overview) a good accountant.

You can write off many things, but it depends on a lot of elements over my head, but starting a company has many advantages.

I write of a bit of my mortgage for office space, for a while LARGE suv's were a deduction you could take in one year, my gear is a write-off, my computers and on and on.

Holosynth....if you've got the money to get into this up to your ears, don't take anybody's advice, but a reputable pro. It's not really that complicated, but you want to make sure that what you do now is future-proof. With as much money as you're talking about hiring a pro for a short while, will make your life a lot easier. I don't necessarily think that setting up and incorporation or getting your business license is worth paying somebody else to do it. It takes some research with your state and on the internet, but it's not that hard to do.

EDIT; Every state is different in it's business laws and maybe even some form of the tax laws.

Good luck.

Adam C Lubkin

02-03-2007, 09:02 PM

I would say it would be money well spent to hire (even for an overview) a good accountant.

You can write off many things, but it depends on a lot of elements over my head, but starting a company has many advantages.

I write of a bit of my mortgage for office space, for a while LARGE suv's were a deduction you could take in one year, my gear is a write-off, my computers and on and on.

Holosynth....if you've got the money to get into this up to your ears, don't take anybody's advice, but a reputable pro. It's not really that complicated, but you want to make sure that what you do now is future-proof. With as much money as you're talking about hiring a pro for a short while, will make your life a lot easier. I don't necessarily think that setting up and incorporation or getting your business license is worth paying somebody else to do it. It takes some research with your state and on the internet, but it's not that hard to do.

EDIT; Every state is different in it's business laws and maybe even some form of the tax laws.

Good luck.

You could also see if you have a local Small Business Development Center, Small Business Administration, or some other outfit that can hook you up with pro-bono help from accountants, etc. Your local library can probably get you started.

Jason Francois

02-03-2007, 09:16 PM

You could also see if you have a local Small Business Development Center, Small Business Administration, or some other outfit that can hook you up with pro-bono help from accountants, etc. Your local library can probably get you started.

Good tip. I forgot about that.

There's a nationwide group of retired business-people that are connected, I think, to the Small Bus. Admin. that help young companies get setup and lend advice. I think the acronym for their group is S.C.O.R.E, but I'm not 100%.

Michael Schrengohst

02-03-2007, 09:43 PM

You could also see if you have a local Small Business Development Center, Small Business Administration, or some other outfit that can hook you up with pro-bono help from accountants, etc. Your local library can probably get you started.

SBA - Ha! It's run by the government and gives very poor advice...
Never get pro-bono help from an accountant...too many crooks give out that line. They get all your info....and good buy identity....

Only go to an accountant you know...get a referral. I have had my accountant for over 20 years - worth every dollar I pay them.

Library? Who goes to the library?

P Andersson

02-04-2007, 05:57 AM

you are doing great by asking around for experience from others

if you have the luxury of people with a similar business model in your area, to show up and visit, interview them or work there gives a lot of information to you about your own ideas

here is a guy that explains communicating to potential clients in a passionate way

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=83958

Phil Becque

02-04-2007, 08:28 AM

I set up my own production company in the UK mainly for these reasons:

1) I wanted to create something that could grow, that my son might inherit one day. He's very gifted.

2) I wanted a legal entity that could own the copyright to all the products: 6 so far

3) It's not hard to register a company in the UK and you do get some protection as a result and potentially qualify for financial help.

4) If I find a great collaborator I'd like to give them equity in the company rather than pay them cash. I have about 10 stakeholders so far. That way when I need a graphic artist or some bespoke music or actors or camera op I can legitimately ask for help. To be fair most of them would have done it as a favour anyway but it helps me to know that I can share profits with the main contributors if I ever make any real money. (Unlikely)

5) UK companies can register for VAT which means you can get 17.5% back on purchases.

6) I have the option to sell the company if I get fed up with it.

7) It's easier for a company to rent expensive equipment than an individual.

I do have an accountant do my books once per annum.

I have no idea about the US though so a lot of the above may not translate.

Best regards, Phil

Holosynthetic

02-04-2007, 08:31 AM

Tranquil, Robert (from Dvxusers) posted to NEVER buy equipment at the beginning, being a business owner with a production company, how is your outlook on this notion?

Phil Becque

02-04-2007, 08:48 AM

Well I think that depends on how you want to work.

I am completely self taught - so the only way I can learn is to do. And to do I need - the camera - the lighting kit - the actors - the edit system - Adobe CS2 and After Effects and all the other stuff I have 5 cases. In short everything I need to experiment and figure what's going to work and what isn't.

I started a 90 minute project 8 years ago and I just finished it last August. A 'proper' production house would have had this nailed in 6 months maybe a year tops. But I wanted the challenge of learning as I went along.

If you have well defined project - e.g. Script, story boards, well defined artistic style, set design etc etc all costed out you don't need to buy anything.

If you're going to be more like me - a one man band production house - I think you need access to all the main pieces of the flow at all times. That doesn't mean that I never hire stuff. I'd hire a crane for example because I just I don't use one so often.

Also, I should come clean a state that I am bit of a control freak in so far as I like to be in control of what I do next as the mood takes me.

If you want to take a quick look at the new project some of it is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCmIq4Ln3Ag

Best regards, Phil

Holosynthetic

02-04-2007, 09:45 AM

Tranquil, I really appreciate you being honest about how you approach your work ethic. I think in this situation I have a lot in common with how you approach the business. While I certainly qualify for the "one man band" status, I don't want to get in over my head even if my mind whispers into my ear that if I can't commit to buying equipment that perhaps I don't 100% believe in myself (an internal battle of being creative and trying to be financially smart I suppose).

My creative side always seems to win out, which never puts a smile on my financial advisor

Phil Becque

02-04-2007, 10:31 AM

The belief thing is interesting - when I started my 8 year project I wasn't convinced that I'd finish it. I knew I wanted to do it that's all. I wrote a 110 page script and asked a friend who makes videos how much to make this? He says 500,000 pounds (~$1,000,000) - whooaaa; I thought that's it I'll never be able to do it. I'm not selling my house and living in a card board box to make this thing. Though hats off to the people who do that.

Then I purchased a VX9000 in 1998 (opps sorry, that's a cheap Sony camera) and started to experiment. I took it up to Yosemite in May 2000 for the weekend, I think I may have had a 'Gibby' moment because, while I was there I got some great shots of the water falls and somehow I knew I was going to finish my project.

I'm certainly not saying that you need to buy equipment to believe in your self, but you do need to take action.

Some questions I would ask myself if I were you would be:

What do I want to achieve ? How do I want to achieve it? And Who do I want to achieve it with? The 'best' way for you to do what you want is for you to find out.

A few Goethe quotes to get you going:

"Thinking is easy, acting is difficult, and to put one's thoughts into action is the most difficult thing in the world."

"Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen."

"Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, begin it.
Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it!”

For me, I have to do stuff and that's why I'm really thrilled about owning a RED. It's going to get me out and about for some more 'Gibby' moments.

Warm regards, Phil

Steve Gibby

02-06-2007, 01:19 PM

You've come full circle and inspired me Phil - this afternoon I'm going to take out one of my cameras and enjoy some more 'Gibby' moments myself!

Just me and my camera...on a beautiful deserted beach...as seabirds float across suntrails on the waves...pure euphoria...and when that can be captured in vibrant 4k with good audio, then others will be able to share in the experience, and know the feeling...

The next day it could be pine covered mountains, by a rushing stream, or in a vast panorama of desert red rocks...it's all good...

I shoot tons of subjects and genres to survive, but there is nothing quite like just disappearing into nature with a camera system and capturing some fresh images. It makes up for all the time spent on busy sets, meetings, and airports...all necessary in this business...but there is a time to just strip it down to yourself and a camera getting images in some primordial setting...

Phil Becque

02-06-2007, 01:57 PM

Hey Gibby,

That's it man! Just as you describe it ! Brilliant!

I hope you don't mind but I wanted to share a couple of pics with you. I just can't figure out how to upload them? It asks for a URL when I hit the insert image icon?

Any tips?

Thanks, Phil

donatello b

02-06-2007, 02:23 PM

you can link photo that is on your site using URL ...

or use the RED icon ( last one) "files upload center " to up load to REDuser site .. remember to copy each link after you upload and that link you paste into your post ( pic will appear in your post)

Steve Gibby

02-06-2007, 02:27 PM

Holosynthetic,

There have been some awesome comments by people on this thread…

Spraying to all fields, let me add some more food for thought that may help you in this business:

Whatever you do, you need courage. Whatever course you decide upon, there is always someone to tell you that you are wrong – Ralph Waldo Emerson

If you can’t do great things, do small things in a great way.

Never explain – Your friends don’t need it, and your enemies won’t believe you anyway!

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt (Chinese Proverb)

Whatever you do, make sure it’s something your heart is in. That way you’ll enjoy each workday, and your work will be much better because you’re doing what you love to do.

Never approach an occupation or a project just simply because it will supposedly make you a lot of money. Have you ever seen a moving van and an armored car following a hearse?

When someone tells you that you can’t do something, just smile and remember that they are doing you a motivational favor by saying so…

No matter what occupation you choose, or in our case, what genres within our occupation you choose, If you do something well enough, for long enough, money usually takes care of itself.

Sometimes dealing with stress is just a one-step program…one-step and a kick!

If you get your health span to match your lifespan, you’ve really won at the game of life (and work).

Success elements in this business are: talent, experience, tenacity, and technology. If you feel you have talent, then tenacity will get you experience. If you have those first three things, then just add in good technology and you’ll probably succeed.

Like any business, there are some scumbags in media production. Set your boundaries. Never contribute to any project that offends your inner nature. Follow your intuition on that…

Happiness and fulfillment in this business is a journey…not a destination.

The more you learn, the more it should remind you how much you still don’t know.

Everything in life is dynamic…nothing is static. Thus, your career in the motion media business will be in constant motion…either forward or backward by your own choosing.

To fail sometimes is quite natural. Don’t find yourself blaming others for your failures. Simply accept them as the result of your poor choices, learn from them, and press on. That way failures will be speed bumps, not mountains…

Broaden your skill sets while you deepen your experience. There’s no reason for you to be limited to being “just a (skill set)”. The more skills sets you have, the better you will understand how this overall business works.

If you’re equal parts artist, techie, manager, and journalist, you will have a hard time failing in this business.

Creativity comes from our right brain. Pragmatism comes from our left-brain. “Mid-brains” can generally use either side at will. It will probably take our whole brain to succeed in this business.

Deadlines don’t mean you’re going to die (nothing is “life or death”, but life or death!)

And finally:

If you can imagine it…you can become it! If you can dream it, you can achieve it!

Jared VanLeuven

02-06-2007, 04:13 PM

"I’ve been discouraged by everything I’ve tried to do. And being discouraged inspires me." - Jim Jannard

Holosynthetic

02-06-2007, 04:18 PM

Jason Francois

02-06-2007, 04:32 PM

You guys are slowly becoming a new family for me. I'm tired of my real family telling me I'm wasting money on expensive "toys". Thanks for just "getting it".

I have to be the biggest tech nerd / actor alive

Words I live by...

I'd rather try and fail then fail to try.

Your family's job is discourage you from doing things that make THEM uncomfortable.

However, I feel that if it's not scary and it can't potentially hurt you then you're probably not pushing the envelope. Only when facing fear and destruction will most people know what it's like to live and ultimately learn what we're made of.

Mike

02-06-2007, 05:04 PM

Failure is just one of the many steps that one has to encounter in order to succeed.

I am sure a lot of successful people has failed before, but most importantly is to learn from our mistake so that we can learn from it.

As long as we have not give up on our path, the battle continues. We may lose a battle but we have not lost the war.

Chris Forbes

02-06-2007, 06:00 PM

I don't post a lot. But I had to in this case. Holosynthetic you are where I was, one year ago. Starting a business has been a learning experiance for me to say the least. If you want to know more about that PM me. One piece of advice I can give is "Make Friends" the addage that "it's all in who you know" is 150% true. Develop a relationship with the sound guys, the gaffers, the grips, the rental house staff, make friends easy and often. You can obtain your goals on your own but the fight is much shorter if you share your vision with a dedicated team of industry professionals. I recently wrapped on an indie picture that we shot on a limited budget. The whole thing came together with some of the best guys in our area ( our sound guy had 35 feature and short projects, our light guy lights for everybody in the state it seems, our fx guy has movies like batman and startrek under his belt ) because of the directors connections and him sharing his vision.

None of the "big" names in hollywood got there on their own.

Steve Gibby

02-06-2007, 06:26 PM

Very true Chris. Networking and forming alliances are the core of any business...but especially the motion media business. Experienced pros will readily mentor a new worker with a good attitude and a hunger to learn. The guy you mentor today may be the one who contracts your services tomorrow! People tend to work with people they like, all things being equal. Online tech forums like RED User are a great way to network. That's what we're doing here...learning about products, but also networking, forming alliances, and getting ideas.

There is no point in your career that you can get lazy, and quit networking. It is the kiss of death for your business. If you think you've arrived and don't need to network...you've just stepped out onto the thinnest ice possible and in for a cold dose of reality.

We are family here in a sense...a big worldwide networking family!

Emmanuel Cambier

02-06-2007, 06:51 PM

thank you guys…

Emmanuel

Holosynthetic

02-06-2007, 07:31 PM

Your family's job is discourage you from doing things that make THEM uncomfortable.

I just recently got my motorcycle license...I decided to put off the purchase because I'd rather purchase a couple Xserves and an Xserve RAID, but my family freaked and told me to not get a motorcycle because I would die. gotta love em' :cool:

Rion

02-06-2007, 09:39 PM

I just saw this and I had to respond... WOW (LOL)

I have no house

I have a wreck of a Jeep

I have no debt (now thats a bonus)

I have no wife

I have no Kids

I have no Plasma TV

I have no distractions

I have no vices (don't drink, don't smoke)

I am happy because.........

I do have vision

I do have ambition

I do have a (small) reputation

I do have belief

I do have the Ocean

I do have inner peace

My goal to achieve drives me above all other necessities.

Jason Francois

02-06-2007, 09:52 PM

I just recently got my motorcycle license...I decided to put off the purchase because I'd rather purchase a couple Xserves and an Xserve RAID, but my family freaked and told me to not get a motorcycle because I would die. gotta love em' :cool:

That's the way to do it. Tests your passion. Every film related gadget or gizmo I have as well as any project I make respresents somthing else that I've given up.

The same can be said of time. Networking is really key, but you wont find me hanging out at the bar watching sports all the time. I'd rather be using that time with my family or working on my story ideas.

The sacrifices we bring to quiet the voices define who we become.

Continued luck,

Jason

Steve Gibby

02-06-2007, 10:13 PM

Rion,

Yeah...I'd say CamDiver definitely has is priorities well figured out...

Life is full of choices...

You'll remember James Thurber's story of Walter Mitty. No matter what he was doing, he always dreamed of doing something else. My philosophy is to figure out what you would love to do most...and then go figure out how to make a living at it. I made that decision almost 3 decades ago, and I'm still loving my work...

I share most of those same traits that CamDiver listed, but I also have a wife and kids, and its all good...

By the way Rion, I see that was your first post...welcome to RED User!

P Andersson

02-06-2007, 11:56 PM

Just me and my camera

honestly, it doesn't really matter what camera,
if it is still or moving,
digital or film
high or low res,
expensive or cheap,
on a difficult job or just for fun,
there is something in this experience that is just different,
like focusing ones attention,
and it makes it better to live somehow

Chris Gearhart

02-07-2007, 04:15 AM

The same can be said of time. Networking is really key, but you wont find me hanging out at the bar watching sports all the time. I'd rather be using that time with my family or working on my story ideas.

The sacrifices we bring to quiet the voices define who we become.

Continued luck,

Jason

Capital post, Jason. Capital.

This certainly is a fascinating thread.

Phil Becque

02-07-2007, 04:33 AM

Hi Holo and Gibby,

Right I think I've figured this out, I've put a few pictures on my google
page.

http://philbecque.googlepages.com/betweencreationanddestruction

The first photo is a frame from the VX9000 panning right and upwards to the sky and this was my 'Gibby' moment in Yosemite. This was my first field trip to see what I could get, so expectations were low. But as soon as I saw this in the view finder - BINGO - I knew I was going to finish the project. My limited camera skills, as poor as they were, would be 'good enough'.

The second one is about limited editing skills. I had a nice shot of Bridal Veil Falls and a stock shot (Art Beats) of light coming through the trees. I mixed the images on the timeline so that the falls appear through the trees - lovely! Now my editing skills were 'good enough'.

The third one is about limited Illustrator CS2 skills. I had ten lovely works of art (by Errol le Cain) digitally transfered and I needed a composite of all ten. I can't tell you how many permutations and combinations there are of ten images in ten positions - I lost count - but this one was like the 15th attempt. Again for my purposes 'good enough'.

So my point Holo is that if you are going to be a one man band - like Gibby says you'll need courage and tenacity to get you through. Some patience with your own limitations can help as well.

All the best, Phil

Steve Gibby

02-07-2007, 08:13 AM

Nice images Phil...ethereal, moody, and though-invoking...they speak for themselves...

I don't mean to sound like John Muir or Ansel Adams, but I've stood right in those same locations several times...it's breathtaking...

Nature is the greatest artist…all we can do when we shoot the natural world is try to accurately document what is already there…

Thanks for sharing those!

A camera is an inanimate tech device that only comes to life when a mind uses it to record an image. The images we record are extensions and impressions of the mind that saw them and was moved to record them. When it's an accurate representation of what the shooter saw, then it's such a good feeling! - like "Yeah...that's what I saw and envisioned!".

Images are everywhere. Every shooter I know, whether they shoot stills, motion media, or both, constantly sees framings and images everywhere around them. It's something that can't be "shut off" (as if you'd want to). No matter where I am, my brain has a subtext of seeing the framings, analyzing the lighting, textures, colors, etc.

Holosynthetic, in order to work you need tools. If the tools you choose can be cost-effective, but at the same time provide you a lot of room for professional and aesthetic growth, then that is definitely the way to go. That's RED One. At RED One's projected specs, the performance-to-cost ratio is off the scale compared to your outlay for other camera systems. You still need to add in talent, pay dues to get more experience, and have tenacity, but at least the tech end of your production world will not be full of limitations. In my opinion, with RED One the biggest challenge for everyone will be getting our skill sets broad enough and deep enough to really be able to explore and use all the capability that is being built into RED One.

Hrvoje Simic

02-07-2007, 08:49 AM

If you had ever read a book and imagined filming it
If you ever felt unexplainable creative urge of any kind
If technology is your toy
If your mind absorbs inspiration like a sponge and erupts ideas like a geyser

If you ever stopped and admired the sky...

that makes two at least here.

now between 2 and 1000.....I wonder how many more

Steve Gibby

02-07-2007, 08:54 AM

Well said Omen...

Like bees to honey...there are undoubtedly many more out there...

Phil Becque

02-07-2007, 09:50 AM

Hi Gibby - Omen and anyone else out there!

Many thanks for the comments Gibby I can't tell you what that means to me coming from a pro like yourself - I've gone all goose bumps! That's good BTW in case that one doesn't translate!

This is the first time I've talked about my creative process to anyone! And I have to say there's something very pleasant about that.

And it looks like we've all been cast out of the same mould Omen elucidates so well.

It's funny, I remember going into the office one day, I walked down to end where there was a large window. There were some very unusual clouds - there was a whole series of them - they looked a bit like enourmous jelly fish - I stopped and goggled - 'Wow look at that I says' to the folk in the office - 'that's incredible' - they peer out the window and look at each other as if to say 'what' ??

'that's really very beautiful' I says - their reply - 'What have you been smoking?' (I do have a bit of a reputation to live down as I worked in the music biz in the 70's) 'Nothing' I protest. They just couldn't see it . . . . .

I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that but I felt a bit sorry for them. I was able to derive real pleasure from some simple clouds - to them it was just the threat of rain.

"A camera is an inanimate tech device that only comes to life when a mind uses it to record an image. The images we record are extensions and impressions of the mind that saw them and was moved to record them. When it's an accurate representation of what the shooter saw, then it's such a good feeling! - like "Yeah...that's what I saw and envisioned!".

This really hits the spot for me mate!! While we are on clouds - apart from a circular polarizing filter have you got any other suggestings - Gibby, Omen?

Warm regards, Phil

Jared VanLeuven

02-07-2007, 10:28 AM

Blair S. Paulsen

02-07-2007, 06:25 PM

Cheers to all my mates out there - reading this thread is like an elixir.

Through the years I have created media at many levels, for many reasons with varying degrees of satisfaction. I have even felt good about making boring but technically excellent pieces just to pay the bills - it sharpened my skills and with the bills under control I knew I could take on projects with little or no pay that I really wanted to do.

As long as you are learning its rarely a bad choice.

For obvious finanacial reasons most of my work since film school has been video. Some of the technical limitations of the video acquisition tools that have been at my disposal (even the expensive rented ones) have always been a frustration to the artist in me. I have learned how to mitigate the impact of limited dynamic range, limited color gamut, limited DoF control, etc but the perfectionist in me always gnawed away.

Jim has given us all a great gift by making a truly amazing imaging device available at a price that makes ownership, rather than rental, a real possiblity for many artists. The ability to mount still lenses of excellent quality on the RedOne opens up so many creative possibilites.

Whatever it is that we all have inside us that makes us willing to even talk about sacrificing "x" or "y" for our art is the starting point. The steps we must take to manifest that art is the journey. Having the technology to make that a dramatically more satisfying experience is intoxicating.

Damn I want that camera in my hands.

Phil Becque

02-09-2007, 08:33 AM

Hi Blair - what was it like going to film school?

Did they cover all aspects of film/movie creation? When you had finished the course did you feel confident you could make your first film?

Did they teach you about lens's? I don't know anything about them - do you know of a beginners guide to professional lens usage ?

As things stand I'm going to get my RED ONE and not have anything to stick on the business end of things. Any helpful tips about what I should be looking out for? I only do docs and I love natural landscapes. If you do make any suggestions can say why a particular lens would be useful?

Thanks a million, Phil

Blair S. Paulsen

02-12-2007, 12:08 AM

Phil - film school is like a lot of things in life, you get out what you put in to it. I was was one of only 3 students out of 30+ that actually finished their final (16mm) film.

Lens usage is a pretty broad subject that got short shift in my program. Obviously it has a big impact in presenting relationships but there are many other factors involved too numerous to go into here.

In terms of finding lenses that suit your taste and needs I strongly recommend that you borrow and rent before you buy. I know that may be very difficult if you are in a remote location so when you travel try and schedule a couple of days where there are many lenses available so you can test your brains out. Also read all of Evin's stuff, I learn a lot there myself.