3D rig from film factory...

[Cristina S]

Any reviewers on this rig?

http://www.3dfilmfactory.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=72%3A3d-bs-mini-rig-beam-splitter&catid=44&Itemid=76

I've just found this:

http://parallaxfilm.wordpress.com/2010/07/02/shooting-a-3d-documentary-review-%E2%80%93-film-factory-3d-beam-splitter-indie-rig/

But I'd like to listen other people. Thanks.

[Zac C]

Ugh, I used this on a 3d film with Sony EX3's and what a horrible experience, the entire built quality just feels like a chinese knock-off, things could be moved around to easily, and the glass just didn't hold up when you needed minute adjustments.

I could go on for hours on how much I didn't like the rig

[Jose Lomeña]

I have it, now i'm installing it with 2x redone. In days i can make a better report.

First report, you get what you pay.

I'm figuring how to align vertical of the cameras. Its my mayor problem now. I will atach a motor for IO, i think it's simple. But convergence will be a real problem. I must make something "in house" because i need something more fluid (and if possible motorized)

My initial opinion is: it's too big. I think it can be smaller. The glass can be much better (the price is to low). The adjustement of the IO is ok!, I like this system, is heavy but work well.

When I setup all componentes and all work perfect, I'll back here to post a small review and final opinion about 3d film factory.

For now... do you know where i can find a better glass?

In other part,
I have problems with zooms. The center change between 2 cameras... so, no zoom possible without new adjustment. I don't know if the problems is the zooms... or the cameras... but this is important to have in mind.


saludos,



Jose.

[Van Din]

I will atach a motor for IO, i think it's simple. How and how much?


But convergence will be a real problem. I must make something "in house" because i need something more fluid (and if possible motorized)Again, how and how much will you spend?
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[Cristina S]

For now... do you know where i can find a better glass?
Are you meaning the mirror?

[Cristina S]

In other part,
I have problems with zooms. The center change between 2 cameras... so, no zoom possible without new adjustment. I don't know if the problems is the zooms... or the cameras... but this is important to have in mind.Even if you use the zoom as you'd be working with primes?

[Brian Petrie]

For now... do you know where i can find a better glass?

You could call Element Technica and talk to them about replacement mirrors or check out either these sites.


http://www.stereoscopicmirrors.com/


http://www.zgc.com/webstore.nsf/products/pstech_24019

[OptiTek]

I'd call Element Technica and buy a replacement mirror from them. They range from like 500-5,000 dollars depending on quality. Or check out these online:

Don't know about the quality from these guys but you could check them out.
http://www.stereoscopicmirrors.com/

Or check out this site which sells a replacement for the p+s technik rig. Which if oem should be of high quality.
http://www.zgc.com/webstore.nsf/products/pstech_24019
I love it when someone randomly makes a statement about a part without the knowledge.:wink5:
What exactly does"better" mean here?
flatter(and how flat)? coated(what coatings), any other considerations?
or just spend $500-5000 and hope it works?
lovely.......:001_tt2:

[Jose Lomeña]

Are you meaning the mirror?
Yes

[Jose Lomeña]

Even if you use the zoom as you'd be working with primes?

If you are working like primes no problem you can adjust the mirror. But if you want to be faster without any adjustement between diferents focal you need a 2 factory match zoom for 3d... At least my lens don't match.

[Jose Lomeña]

I love it when someone randomly makes a statement about a part without the knowledge.:wink5:
What exactly does"better" mean here?
flatter(and how flat)? coated(what coatings), any other considerations?
or just spend $500-5000 and hope it works?
lovely.......:001_tt2:

I second that. I know that the glass can be much better, but i don't want to spend 2000€ without be sure that it's bettet than my 500€ glass. I don't know if coating or flatter, i know difereces between left and right images. More diferences for me is a worst glass, less diferences, better glass.
I don't test any other stereo glass, maybe the glass of 3d film factory is better than the glass of p+s. A side by side can reveal this, but... Who make this comparison?.

I think the best that 3d film factory can do is supply a better glass as expensive price.

Saludos,

Jose.

[Brian Petrie]

I love it when someone randomly makes a statement about a part without the knowledge.:wink5:
What exactly does"better" mean here?
flatter(and how flat)? coated(what coatings), any other considerations?
or just spend $500-5000 and hope it works?
lovely.......:001_tt2:

Sorry...I didn't mean to make any statement about quality. I though he wanted options of mirror replacement. I thought I'd show a few links and he could research them and see if any of these options are "better" for him. In no way did I mean to portray anything as any "better" than anything else. If I did, Im sorry not my intentions I was just trying to show some options. Ha ill keep shut in the future.

[Don King]

Ha ill keep shut in the future.No, you shouldn't. For your information, your first link will make me try that route. wtf!
I think Mr. Red W. Lcd might even try to supply something to work. What about a solution there?

W. = Workaround

[Brian Petrie]

Ha well I edited to remove any "opinions". They had a point tho b/c I used "I'd call" which can be interpreted as it's better when what I meant and should have said was "You could call"

[Don King]

There's no alternative to the 3D film factory rig as far as price goes.

[OptiTek]

Sorry...I didn't mean to make any statement about quality. I though he wanted options of mirror replacement. I thought I'd show a few links and he could research them and see if any of these options are "better" for him. In no way did I mean to portray anything as any "better" than anything else. If I did, Im sorry not my intentions I was just trying to show some options. Ha ill keep shut in the future.
Brian, it has nothing to do with you. This is highly technical issue and should be dealt with a such. There are optical specs that define the resulting image quality very precisely. I'm merely implying that due diligence is the key here. Time and money spent on research, online and otherwise is crucial.
1. Define the problem in technical terms. If you can't define yourself find someone that will define it for you.
2. Determine what technical aspects (specs)of the beam splitter are causing it. Again, if you can't do it yourself find (and possibly pay) someone that will do it for you
3. Obtain the related specifications for the beam splitter. If the vendor can't supply the specs don't even bother- they are unable(unwilling?) to support their product.
4. Compare these specs to competitive products and make purchase decision. Based on compromise you can live with vs your budget.
If the competitive product vendors can't supply the specs don't bother with them either- see above....
I know it's easier said than done but please!!!!! don't let marketing buzz take your money-keep your money and your sanity.....

[Ian Herring]

I have it, now i'm installing it with 2x redone. In days i can make a better report.

For now... do you know where i can find a better glass?



Hi all,

Ian Herring from Parallax Film Productions here. Saw Cristina posted our blog review of one of 3D Film Factory’s rigs:

http://parallaxfilm.wordpress.com/2010/07/02/shooting-a-3d-documentary-review-–-film-factory-3d-beam-splitter-indie-rig/

Jose – we actually broke one of our two mirrors for our rig last week. We contacted 3D Film Factory and they’re selling us another one for cheap … but overall we’ve found a few problems with the mirrors:

1)The first mirror we got “stock” with the rig yielded colour, light and clarity disparities between the two cameras we mounted; and

2)Attaching the mirror to the rig without breaking it’s a mission (see: we broke it). If it’s too tight it will crack, but if it’s too loose it will slide off when you position it at a 45 degree angle. Very tough to find the sweet spot … and the sweet spot’s different for both the mirrors we have.

Specifics in today’s blog:
http://parallaxfilm.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/shooting-a-3d-documentary-film-factory-3d-indie-bs-rig-mirror-issues/

Do you need a new mirror because it broke, or because you’re having similar QC issues?

I see some others recommend buying from another company … I can weigh in on ordering from 3D Film Factory when the mirror comes in and we’ve had a chance to test it.

Of note: we’re actually using the Indie rig, not the Mini. Though I suspect the mirrors come from the same source. Does anyone know?

[Van Din]

or because you?re having similar QC issues?QC?

By the way, what's your impressions on the quality?
Any problems with color temperature (mirror), inter ocular distance or convergence?
________
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[Brian Petrie]

QC?
QC= Quality Control

[Jose Lomeña]

Hi all,

Ian Herring from Parallax Film Productions here. Saw Cristina posted our blog review of one of 3D Film Factory’s rigs:

http://parallaxfilm.wordpress.com/2010/07/02/shooting-a-3d-documentary-review-–-film-factory-3d-beam-splitter-indie-rig/

Jose – we actually broke one of our two mirrors for our rig last week. We contacted 3D Film Factory and they’re selling us another one for cheap … but overall we’ve found a few problems with the mirrors:

1)The first mirror we got “stock” with the rig yielded colour, light and clarity disparities between the two cameras we mounted; and

2)Attaching the mirror to the rig without breaking it’s a mission (see: we broke it). If it’s too tight it will crack, but if it’s too loose it will slide off when you position it at a 45 degree angle. Very tough to find the sweet spot … and the sweet spot’s different for both the mirrors we have.

Specifics in today’s blog:
http://parallaxfilm.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/shooting-a-3d-documentary-film-factory-3d-indie-bs-rig-mirror-issues/

Do you need a new mirror because it broke, or because you’re having similar QC issues?

I see some others recommend buying from another company … I can weigh in on ordering from 3D Film Factory when the mirror comes in and we’ve had a chance to test it.

Of note: we’re actually using the Indie rig, not the Mini. Though I suspect the mirrors come from the same source. Does anyone know?

I don't have problems with the mount of the mirror, but i think it can be better. My rig is the pro bs, the bigger.
My problems are with the QC. The mirror image have too much ghost.

I think there are a lot of great 3d professionals in this board that can help us to decide a better mirror bassed in his experience.
Anyone?

[Ian Herring]

QC?

By the way, what's your impressions on the quality?
Any problems with color temperature (mirror), inter ocular distance or convergence?

The issue we’re having with this rig is that we can’t mount a Sony EX1/EX3 duo on it without seeing the edge of the box and/or the bottom of the mirror:

http://parallaxfilm.wordpress.com/2010/07/03/3d-documentary-filmmaking-why-sony-exs-arent-ideal-for-our-beam-splitter-rig/

Alister Chapman’s apparently coming out with a rig he calls the “Hurricane” that he says will fit the EXs great.

http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/3dtv/message/25466

But it’s not due until late this summer … too late for us to use it to film our explosive demolition series Blowdown in 3D (the implosion’s slated for the end of August in Salvador, Brazil).

The P+S Technik’s another option being thrown around … but my understanding is it’s more expensive. Here’s the rundown:

http://parallaxfilm.wordpress.com/2010/07/09/beam-splitter-rigs-for-sony-exs-filmmakers-weigh-in/

So, as I say in the post, we’re trying to get a few XF305s from Canon Canada to test – hopefully, if we get our hands on them, they’ll fit in the Indie rig better.

Cause it seems there’s a serious shortage of alternatives …

[Ian Herring]

QC= Quality Control

Thanks for clarifying, Brian.

[Emanuel A.]

Alister Chapman’s apparently coming out with a rig he calls the “Hurricane” that he says will fit the EXs great.

http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/3dtv/message/25466

But it’s not due until late this summer … Very interesting...

http://www.xdcam-user.com/?p=945

Thank you and welcome Ian, your input on your experience about 3D Film Factory rig would be much appreciated indeed.

E. :-)

[Brendan Weston]

A quick reply in terms of mirrors, we are also using the 3DFF Indie Rig, and also managed to break the mirror! We needed a quick turnaround and ordered a couple of spares from www.stereoscopicmirrors.com and results look good in terms of colour and disparity. Also quite a bit cheaper than ordering a new replacement.

I would have to say the results are better than the mirror we received initially with the rig. Ill be doing some further testing today to really see how it stacks up.

As a note to anyone in Oz, the nearest quote/time I got from a local company was 3 weeks. We received the mirrors from the US in 4 days.

[Emanuel A.]

Thanks for your report, very useful. Other takers?

[Petros Nousias]

I got one from www.stereoscopicmirrors.com as well and will be testing it in the following days...

[Bruce Schultz]

I have a 3DFF rig using EX cams. Although it is a tediously cumbersome rig, it will get the job done - albeit with an enormous amount of adjustments and massaging. Color correction is necessary for mirror disparities, though mostly for exterior shots not so much for interiors. I'm investigating more expensive rig solutions also, but for now as has been stated in an earlier post, it's the only thing available in it's price range so far.

I have some production stills posted on my 3D website; http://bit.ly/ptd3d and also click the Press Releases button to find the air dates of a History Channel 3D show I DP'd airing this week in 3D on DirecTV channel 103

[Johnny Johnson]

I can advise on all the different rigs as we sell nearly all of the more recognised rigs available, including the new ET rigs and some of our own "Bolt" and "Calcutta" side-by-side rigs which we believe are the most efficient and cost effective (not too pricey) side-by-side rigs currently on the market. Drop me a line if you are planning on upgrading your 3D rigs.

http://www.inition.co.uk/inition/dispatcher.php?URL_=product_stereovis_inition_calc utta&SubCatID_=81&model=products&action=get&tab=summary

[Keith]

I have used this rig for quite a few shoots,

A few points on it:

1) I would suggest perhaps some better light blocking around the mirror box. I also secure some Duvetyne cloth on the bottom of the mirror box to enhance the black levels, as opposed to the raw plastic.

2) They have some 6 point convergence plates for camera adjustment. These I have found to greatly reduce my set up time. For most shoots I can have the 3D ready in under 3-5 min.

3) Using a stereo brain or a Cinetal Davio for shot preview helps alot, the Davio we also use for color correction and focus assist. I do most of my preview in anglyph rather than the 3D monitors. The 3D monitors tend to be very reflective.

4) Many shoots I have used eX3's once you get them lined up they generally work quite nice. I have also used to EX1 with Ex3 Combo with very good results.

5) some one said they have mirror ghost, I would ask is the correct side of the mirror facing up. If it is correct I have never encountered ghosting.


Keith Driver
Stereographer
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1289173519

[KETCH ROSSi]

Welcome to Reduser Keith ;)

As for getting some confusion off what really a "MIRROR" does and what his true
function is on a Beam Splitter S3D RIG, lets just say that the " MIRROR" is just
about the most important part of the S3D RIG, if this is an electronically controlled
S3D RIG, like the ones form ET, and or also has a direct link to an operating Brain
like the ones form such as the ones from 3Ality, then is just one of the 2 or e MOST
IMPORTANT parts ;)

This "MIRRORS" do not come cheap, in fact a S3D rig with a "MIRROR" costing less
then several Thousand $$$ it is something I would not even consider shooting on.

Some of the S3D rigs out there only cost several Thousand $$ all together were few
S3D "PRO" rigs such as those form ET and 3Ality cost that much just to buy the
"MIRROR" ;) and there is a reason why ;)

[Joey R.]

There is a little bit of misinformation concerning the cost of ET mirrors and how much mirrors should cost in order to be considered "good".

Our "General Purpose" beamsplitter, for the Quasar alone, is $540 out the door. The reason is simple, our purchase numbers are now into the thousands. IF we were to buy a few at a time, our cost alone starts at around $3k. So even at a markup everyone would feel good because they were paying thousands of dollars for a high-end beamsplitter double coated substrate. Now, with volume its not necessary to pay those prices so its important for people to realize cost does not necessarily equal quality.

Now our premium Schott water white 3mm precision ground and polished beamsplitter with our very own secret sauce coatings we sell for $5000. This mirror is a touch under $20k for one piece of coated substrate. But luckily for us we purchase a hundred or so and the price goes dramatically down. If those of you feel better by spending in the $20k range, we can facilitate :wink5:

For those who want more information about the mirrors we supply, you can go to our site. We are more than happy to make it all public info:
http://www.technica3d.com/support/

Joey

[Jason Goodman]

Keith,

While I agree with your statement I would add that cost alone is not an accurate measure. A mirror that yields poor quality for stereoscopic cinematography could still be very expensive. Custom coatings are costly particularly when done in small runs. Likewise, a mirror with very good s3D characteristics might be comparatively inexpensive if it were manufactured in a large run. Cost is a pretty good guideline, but it does not tell you everything you need to know. Get a spectral analysis if you can.

[Pedro Guimaraes]

I echo Jason's comments, since I have recently shot on some expensive "high end" mirrors that I thought performed poorly. Price is not always the way to tell...

As with everything in 3D.....test.....test..test....

What is true is that optics in our business as everyone knows is everything. We reagularly shoot on 20k+ lenses. Wouldn't make much sense to use low quality optics in front of all that money....

in the end, it's all about what you save in post. Since most of the issues can be fixed with most high end stereo tools quite easily......still that equals time and money.

easier to get it right at the moment of capture.

[Sven Seynaeve]

Some good explanation over there Joey... thanks