3D Crash Course

[zak forrest]

I have learned quite a bit about 3D this week but there are still some questions I have that I won't really know the answers to until it gets closer to shooting, or I perform tests myself. I would love it if someone could chime in on some of these remaining questions that I have:

Our video will be 4k 16:9 23.98 Redcode 36

- What is the widest prime lens I can use with the Quasar?

- Is there any way to shoot 3D with a 10mm or 14mm prime lens. Even if we crop it a bit?

- What is the purpose of linking two Red's with USB? Is it simply to start and stop both at same time with a single record button push, or are other things being linked via USB as well? If we are ALWAYS ROLLING and never stopping until we fill up a drive, can we ditch something on the rig, like USB (or something else unknown to me at the present moment)

- What else do we need to link both cameras? Genlock?

- Are there any issues or snafus we should watch for when shooting VARISPEED with the Quasar ? Both 12fps and also 48fps and even higher

- Can we change the shutter speed during a shot on one camera and then a half a second to a second later change the shutter speed on the second camera to match the first camera, or will they then be going at alternating cycles and not match up ?? Is this an issue that using USB or genlock fixes?

- Where to rent a Transvideo 3D anaglyph monitor for on-set viewing ?

- Where to rent a 3D multiplexer box for on-set monitoring using a Zalman 3D display or a Panasonic 3D plasma?


Everyone on the boards has been incredibly helpful to our production this week, thanks again.

Zak + Chad

[Conrad Hunziker]

It sounds like you need to spend a day at ET. Joey knows all his stuff over there and can answer most of these easily.

You can shoot with any lens you want, if you are going to crop out the rig. There may be an issue with the front element of the 10mm being too big to physically fit in the Quasar, depends on your exact lens. Either way, youd be cropping (and therefore loosing resolution) to about a 16mm equivalent, so might as well just shoot on a 16mm.

You need genlock. You can get it from the AJA Gen10, or from a tri-level timecode box, such as the Ambient. You'll need timecode sync also.

Convergence & IO are controlled by the Quasar's controllers. You'll need to provide controllers to control the lenses.

I would keep the camera shutter settings to always match. We did a test where the shutters by mistake werent aligned. On a 40' screen, some people wanted to vomit. Seriously.

[jonnycom]

Our video will be 4k 16:9 23.98 Redcode 36

- What is the widest prime lens I can use with the Quasar? Not sure about the Quasar but I have seen the 16-42 Optimos on them a lot. We shoot on the OmniRig which can go to 14mm just barely.

- Is there any way to shoot 3D with a 10mm or 14mm prime lens. Even if we crop it a bit? You don't want to crop your final image that screws up all the math and can be bad.

- What is the purpose of linking two Red's with USB? Is it simply to start and stop both at same time with a single record button push, or are other things being linked via USB as well? If we are ALWAYS ROLLING and never stopping until we fill up a drive, can we ditch something on the rig, like USB (or something else unknown to me at the present moment) The USB is how the cameras lock up shutter, ISO and other things but not sync.

- What else do we need to link both cameras? Genlock? How do you Genlock two cameras? If more than one way, what is the cheapest. You need Genlock for sure. We use the Gen10's which are built into the OmniRig and seem to work fine.

- What is needed to control convergence etc on the Quasar rig? Does it all come with the rig? Yes, thats part of the rig... Lot's of people like to use a motor for convergence but you don't have to.

- We are getting a cMotion 3ch wireless with the rig, this is just for pulling focus on two lenses, correct? Or is it also used to control the Quasar? A good synced 2 motor system can do focus if thats all you want. It is nice to have full FIZ plus IO and CON on a 3d rig though. The Quasar can do the IO and CON

- Are there any issues or snafus we should watch for when shooting VARISPEED with the Quasar ? Both 12fps and also 48fps and even higher. You can do it but make sure it is set up right... we shoot alot of slowmo and keep the frame rate divisible by 24 when the Gen10 is set up that way. Be carefull!

- Can we change the shutter speed during a shot on one camera and then a half a second to a second later change the shutter speed on the second camera to match the first camera, or will they then be going at alternating cycles and not match up ?? Is this an issue that using USB or genlock fixes? The second cam should be slaved through the USB if you set it up right so you only need to change one cam..... are you saying you want to make changes while rolling?


Can anyone give us leads on where to rent a Transvideo 3D anaglyph monitor for on-set viewing this friday? All the rental houses have them.....

Can anyone give us leads on where to rent a 3D multiplexer box for on-set monitoring using a Zalman 3D display or a Panasonic 3D plasma? Why do you want to monitor in 3d? It slows you down a lot and is not that useful.

If your just starting out in 3d get a good stereo calculator like IOD Calc for your iphone or Touch and really learn it and trust it. We have shot over 1000 hours of 3d with it and have never blown a shot because or math was wrong

[zak forrest]

- Can we change the shutter speed during a shot on one camera and then a half a second to a second later change the shutter speed on the second camera to match the first camera, or will they then be going at alternating cycles and not match up ?? Is this an issue that using USB or genlock fixes? The second cam should be slaved through the USB if you set it up right so you only need to change one cam..... are you saying you want to make changes while rolling?


YES we were hoping to do some changes WHILE we were rolling

[Pedro Guimaraes]

You can always hire someone that has experience :thumbsup:

You'll learn alot more this way and get better results.....just saying.

Sounds like people answered most of your questions.....so I hope you have a good shoot!

Good luck! have fun!

[Joey R.]

Hey there Zak, glad to hear you will be working with one of our rigs. Anything else you need to know feel free to give me a call although its also helpful to have the information here for all to see.

As Pedro recommended, hire HIM or someone like HIM to make sure everything is done correctly. Nothing will make your first 3D shoot miserable than not getting all the information you need up front before you start shooting.

To answer some of your questions:
• The mirrorbox is designed for a 16mm lens on a 35mm chip. At 14mm you will get some vignette.
• If you want to use a 10mm or 14mm or wider then you would need to go with a 2/3" sensor but that means not using the RED obviously. On a 2/3" sensor you can get down to about 7.2mm.
• The USB cable keeps you from needing an apple box or extension mirror nearby ;)
• The Quasar, as mentioned, does indeed come standard with a wired/wireless hand controller. The controller's software will let you set IO and C limits and will also let you lock IO with C and vice versa. Meaning if you are shooting a subject with a convergence of 15' and decide to adjust the IO, the convergence will not move.
• Your only snafu with the monitors you are thinking of using is scaling. The RED uses 720p so if you do not have scalers then you may likely be looking at a picture window. We use the 3Play for all of our flip/flop/multiplexing needs but if we are using anything other than the Hyundai monitor then we need to use scalers. The Hyundai, even though the image is horrible compared to SONY and JVC and such, comes with a built in scaler (even though it isn't spec'd).

[zak forrest]

Hey there Zak, glad to hear you will be working with one of our rigs. Anything else you need to know feel free to give me a call although its also helpful to have the information here for all to see.

As Pedro recommended, hire HIM or someone like HIM to make sure everything is done correctly. Nothing will make your first 3D shoot miserable than not getting all the information you need up front before you start shooting.

To answer some of your questions:
• The mirrorbox is designed for a 16mm lens on a 35mm chip. At 14mm you will get some vignette.
• If you want to use a 10mm or 14mm or wider then you would need to go with a 2/3" sensor but that means not using the RED obviously. On a 2/3" sensor you can get down to about 7.2mm.
• The USB cable keeps you from needing an apple box or extension mirror nearby ;)
• The Quasar, as mentioned, does indeed come standard with a wired/wireless hand controller. The controller's software will let you set IO and C limits and will also let you lock IO with C and vice versa. Meaning if you are shooting a subject with a convergence of 15' and decide to adjust the IO, the convergence will not move.
• Your only snafu with the monitors you are thinking of using is scaling. The RED uses 720p so if you do not have scalers then you may likely be looking at a picture window. We use the 3Play for all of our flip/flop/multiplexing needs but if we are using anything other than the Hyundai monitor then we need to use scalers. The Hyundai, even though the image is horrible compared to SONY and JVC and such, comes with a built in scaler (even though it isn't spec'd).

hey joey thanks for writing back.

i'm here right now at TCS checking out the quasar, our rental is on friday. we cant get the transvideo monitor to stay in sync with the two cameras genlock. it might be our denecke dcode boxes, or it might be the cameras, i dont know we are still troubleshooting. is there a recommended genlock box, or method, to be used when shooting 3D with two reds? we are on the latest firmware etc... every now and then we get a stable 3d image on the transvideo but usually we either get one and not the other, or lose genlock on one of the reds. any advice?

[Joey R.]

An AJA Gen10 is what we use. I definately feel your pain on the transvideo not locking. Our procedure usually involves power cycling/ disconnect and reconnect the gen lock source to the cameras, and disconnect and reconnect the video signals to the transvideo. It will take a few tries. You are definately not alone in your frustration.

[Jason Goodman]

If you are using the AJA Gen10, make sure dip switches 1, 2 & 7 are on and all others are off. Also, I find it works best if the BNC cables running from the Gen 10 to the cameras are equal length and if they are both connected on the same side, rather than one on the side with the power connector and another on the opposite side. Power cycling one, two or three times usually works. Having the latest build on your RED ONE also seems to help.

Jason Goodman
CEO
21st Century 3D New York
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21st Century 3D Hollywood
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