Random image problems with Rocket card

[Tony Lorentzen]

Just got my Rocket card and I'm pretty amazed at the speed - however - there seems to be a problem that is causing random "glitches" (for the lack of a better word). The problem can be seen on the attached still frames. If I re-render the movie then it will happen somewhere else in the clip - or not. Very random. At playback in Redcine (build 258) there's also something like it going on...

Any help? I really can't use the card for work that involves a client - and I need my clients to pay me to afford stuff like the Red Rocket card ;-)

The card has been firmware updated and is correctly installed in the 16x slot in a Mac Pro 8-core w/ 16 Gb RAM.

http://kinema.dk/linked/rocket01.png

http://kinema.dk/linked/rocket02.png

http://kinema.dk/linked/rocket03.png

[Tony Lorentzen]

Also just found out that my system won't sleep after the RED Rocket card has been installed. Going to have to pull the card out of my system until I get some help. Have also filed incident on red.com/support.

EDIT: When I tell the machine to sleep, the display turns off but the machine doesn't go into sleep mode. Also - can't seem to revive the machine again.

[Dustin Cross]

This is similar to the problem i was having with the old firmware and Rocketcine on a first gen mac pro. This worries me you are getting this with the latest software. I was getting random half red half blue frames. My understanding was it was an issue with 1st and 2nd gen mac pros.


Dusty

[Matthew Yaeger]

Tony please send log files from a render that has had the corruption to redcinex at red dot com.

[JanneJansson]

Make sure your user have admin rights.
Download latest driver ->install ->cold reboot ->flash with new firmware ->cold reboot.
There is a pci slot tool on the mac that can tell of the port is clocked at x8 or not.
You could try moving it to another pci slot. It is also good to have nice airflow past all cards and if you have a very hot graphic card, not to have the RR just next to it.
..and wear anti static band on hands so it is not get damaged.

[Tony Lorentzen]

Card, drivers and firmware is all up-to-date. I'll try to see of I can find any logfiles. The Mac is an early 2009 nehalem so it should be good, right?

[Tony Lorentzen]

Have rebooted a couple of times since and reading files off of another drive than the previous, I haven't seemed to be able to recreate the problem... Very odd! Yet - I still have problems with not being able to put the computer into sleep mode.

[Guy Wagner]

I'm having the same type of intermittent random image glitches. Latest driver and firmware. Sometimes it goes away completely and I can get work done.

[sander kamp]

I had the same problem. It would disappear after a reboot and then be good but in the end it came back worse. You really have to talk to RED about this, they will ask you to do some tests and send log files.

With a Rocket installed your MacPro won't go to sleep anymore. If I remember correctly RED answered that this might or might not come in a future firmware version and 'that it is better for your computer to not turn it off or go to sleep'. In other words: don't count on it. It is really a shame though and consumes unnecessary power.

[Tony Lorentzen]

It is really a shame though and consumes unnecessary power.

Yep - and considering I plan on partly using the system in a mobile setup where I'll be running on battery-power, that is a major deal-breaker! I need to be able to put the Mac Pro into sleep mode to preserve power and still be able to get it up and running FAST. Looks like I should install that SSD disk as system drive.

[Sidney L. Plaut]

alot of pci cards wont let your mac go to sleep. raid cards etc... not an unusual thing.

[CJ Roy]

Looks like a bad card or bad PCI slot.

[Paul Kalbach]

Make sure your user have admin rights.
Download latest driver ->install ->cold reboot ->flash with new firmware ->cold reboot.
There is a pci slot tool on the mac that can tell of the port is clocked at x8 or not.
You could try moving it to another pci slot. It is also good to have nice airflow past all cards and if you have a very hot graphic card, not to have the RR just next to it.
..and wear anti static band on hands so it is not get damaged.

Where is this PCI slot tool? I can't find it in Utilities or anywhere; is it part of the OS?

[Tony Bacak]

it is in:

system/library/coreservices/

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2838

[Paul Kalbach]

it is in:

system/library/coreservices/

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2838

Thanks Tony! But when I tried to run it, I got this error message:

"Expansion Slot Utility is not intended to run on this system."

I seem to have some kind of system glitch here. My Rocket card works fine in Single Link and DVI-D, but nothing in Dual Link (monitor gives error message, "Out of range DUAL LINK"). My first Rocket card worked in Dual Link but I sent it back because of intermittent glitches, etc. They sent me a new card which didn't work in Dual Link, so I sent it back. They returned the same card to me after finding nothing wrong with it.

I get this warning when I run Repair Permissions in Disk Utility:

Warning: SUID file "System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/ARDAgent.app/Contents/MacOS/ARDAgent" has been modified and will not be repaired.

Does anybody out there on the forums know what this means and whether it's relevant to my problem?

[Deanan]

Thanks Tony! But when I tried to run it, I got this error message:

"Expansion Slot Utility is not intended to run on this system."

I seem to have some kind of system glitch here. My Rocket card works fine in Single Link and DVI-D, but nothing in Dual Link (monitor gives error message, "Out of range DUAL LINK"). My first Rocket card worked in Dual Link but I sent it back because of intermittent glitches, etc. They sent me a new card which didn't work in Dual Link, so I sent it back. They returned the same card to me after finding nothing wrong with it.

I get this warning when I run Repair Permissions in Disk Utility:

Warning: SUID file "System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/ARDAgent.app/Contents/MacOS/ARDAgent" has been modified and will not be repaired.

Does anybody out there on the forums know what this means and whether it's relevant to my problem?

Your monitor might just be complaining that it's getting full range smpte.

[Paul Kalbach]

Your monitor might just be complaining that it's getting full range smpte.
But this same monitor worked in Dual Link with the 1st Rocket card...

[Mark Phelan]

Well now I'm having problems with the rocket card renders. It worked fine last week, now it's decided to throw gremlins. These are random popup glitches, if I re-render it will show up elsewhere in the clip. Need some help. Have opened a support ticket, but haven't heard from anyone yet, so I'm asking for input and help.

[Mark Phelan]

OK, update to my previous issue. I had assumed that the new issues were related to the Rocket card since that was the new change to my system but now I'm not so sure. I had previously rendered the file and it worked fine. Then the problem reared its head. But now it has seemed to go away, and I've rendered this file again without issue so it's making me wonder if it might be a Quicktime glitch, I really have no clue what it might have been.

I did try it in Red Alert at half standard, which took forever and it worked fine, but it's really amazing the color difference between that and RCX. I've really gotten used to using RCX with the rocket card, so let's hope things keep working smoothly.

Oh, a shout out to the Bomb Squad's Jonathan Bennett for helping me figure this out. Still a mystery, but we're working on it!

[Deanan]

OK, update to my previous issue. I had assumed that the new issues were related to the Rocket card since that was the new change to my system but now I'm not so sure. I had previously rendered the file and it worked fine. Then the problem reared its head. But now it has seemed to go away, and I've rendered this file again without issue so it's making me wonder if it might be a Quicktime glitch, I really have no clue what it might have been.

I did try it in Red Alert at half standard, which took forever and it worked fine, but it's really amazing the color difference between that and RCX. I've really gotten used to using RCX with the rocket card, so let's hope things keep working smoothly.

Oh, a shout out to the Bomb Squad's Jonathan Bennett for helping me figure this out. Still a mystery, but we're working on it!

Are you on the 1.3.3 rocket firmware?

[Mark Phelan]

As of today, yes. Could that have fixed the problem?

[Deanan]

As of today, yes. Could that have fixed the problem?

Yes.

[Tony Lorentzen]

I am still having this problem and it's really starting to get to me. RED support hasn't been able to help me even a tiny bit. Just exported a clip that shows a lot of problems with lines being "corrupted" (tiny artifacts of different colors). Logfiles show no problems with the export. Disabling the Rocket card eliminates the problems completely. And the installed Rocket firmware is 1.1.8.6 according to the installer that came with the 1.3.3 drivers. What to do?! It's basically unusable in it's current stage and making me look like a fool.

[Deanan]

I am still having this problem and it's really starting to get to me. RED support hasn't been able to help me even a tiny bit. Just exported a clip that shows a lot of problems with lines being "corrupted" (tiny artifacts of different colors). Logfiles show no problems with the export. Disabling the Rocket card eliminates the problems completely. And the installed Rocket firmware is 1.1.8.6 according to the installer that came with the 1.3.3 drivers. What to do?! It's basically unusable in it's current stage and making me look like a fool.

Can you upload a clip for us to look at?
Email us at redcinex at red dot com.

[Tony Lorentzen]

I don't have any clips available to me right now that I'm allowed to show, but I'll find some in a few days and post a clip. I did send screenshots when I submitted a support incident on red.com.

[Tony Lorentzen]

Actually - I just found a clip on the local drive that I can show you. Take a look at frames 13 and 217: http://kinema.dk/linked/A023_C015_1117EN.mov

I would upload the R3D but it makes no sense as these problems are occurring on more or less all clips from different cameras.

[Deanan]

Actually - I just found a clip on the local drive that I can show you. Take a look at frames 13 and 217: http://kinema.dk/linked/A023_C015_1117EN.mov

I would upload the R3D but it makes no sense as these problems are occurring on more or less all clips from different cameras.

We really do need the R3D to help with debugging.
Email me directly also.

[Tony Lorentzen]

We really do need the R3D to help with debugging.
Email me directly also.

Well - if you want it you got it. I'll email you a link to it once I get that motha' uploaded ;-)

[Rainer Fritz]

We supporting a second production where we have also sometimes problems with the rocket debayer. Mine here is working some days now without issues after reinstalling card, firmware and driver. Will send you a R3D from the second set Deanan ...
Will a rollback to Redcine-X 258 and previous firmware build give a solution till this problem is fixed ??

thx
rainer

[Deanan]

We supporting a second production where we have also sometimes problems with the rocket debayer. Mine here is working some days now without issues after reinstalling card, firmware and driver. Will send you a R3D from the second set Deanan ...
Will a rollback to Redcine-X 258 and previous firmware build give a solution till this problem is fixed ??

thx
rainer

From our experience the newer firmware is better but by getting more footage that is having issues we can further improve it.

[Tony Lorentzen]

Deanan - just e-mailed redcinex at red dot com and I'll forward the e-mail directly to you also.

[Rainer Fritz]

We see here with a new card random problems in playback and rendering. Not when you go frame by frame to the footage. And the really bad thing is, the bad frames are coming every time on other frames and files. Thats the situation with a new rocket, actual firmware and driver as redcinex and a 2009 macpro model.
with my old card and 2008 model the bad frames appear now very selden, but constant. its always in the same file at the same frame...
I will send two new R3Ds where I have this problem...

So that the rocket is the heart of workflow for us, because we are transcoding and viewing lots of footage, it is a major problem that please need to be fixed....

thx
rainer

[Tony Lorentzen]

Hey Deanan - have you had a chance to look into this problem. Is still having trouble and still having to make excuses to clients. It's killing me.

[Deanan]

Hey Deanan - have you had a chance to look into this problem. Is still having trouble and still having to make excuses to clients. It's killing me.

Yes. We're working on a solution.

[Tony Lorentzen]

Yes. We're working on a solution.

So what you're saying is that you know what's wrong and that it's not a hardware problem? :smile5:

[Jeremy Neish]

We've also had occasional corrupt frames. But I'm intentionally using outdated firmware and RocketCineX as I prefer its interface to REDCINE-X.

I've found that some drives cause more corruption than others. One of our internal drives in particular certainly produces more corrupt frames when I write to it.

But the most important lesson I've learned is to step away from the computer while it's transcoding. And especially avoid opening or viewing any other QuickTime or R3D files while the transcode is going. This eliminates nearly 100% of our corrupt frames for us.

[Deanan]

So what you're saying is that you know what's wrong and that it's not a hardware problem? :smile5:

It's related to the host pci-e implementation. Older macs had the same problem but that changed recently. Possibly initiated by an OSX update.

[Rainer Fritz]

For me it seems when the temperature is higher, the bad frames are shown more often...

I have macpros running on 10.6.4 and 10.6.3 and have the same issue. If it comes from an update it must be since the last two months...

[Chris Parker]

this happens on at least 6 of our red rocket cards from time to time. for us:

- seems to happen more when it is hotter
- also seems to happen after mac pro has been transported....(could it be a card coming slightly loose or unseated?)

anyways, deanan, when you have more info. on a fix, by all means, let us know, as this is a major issue for our fleet anyways. we are able to work around it, but a fix would be a huge thing for us. thanks.....

[Tony Lorentzen]

Thanks for your feedback, Chris. We need as many with this problem to come forward so RED has a clear understanding of just how many people are having this problem.

[Deanan]

Thanks for your feedback, Chris. We need as many with this problem to come forward so RED has a clear understanding of just how many people are having this problem.

We get feedback directly which is a wider and more detailed feedback group than reduser. Making judgements based on reduser is highly innaccurate and often confuses multiple issues into the same. That's why we ask to contact us directly so it goes through the proper support channels. REDuser is not tech support.

That said, we're already working on a solution.

[Deanan]

this happens on at least 6 of our red rocket cards from time to time. for us:

- seems to happen more when it is hotter
- also seems to happen after mac pro has been transported....(could it be a card coming slightly loose or unseated?)

anyways, deanan, when you have more info. on a fix, by all means, let us know, as this is a major issue for our fleet anyways. we are able to work around it, but a fix would be a huge thing for us. thanks.....

Can you email the logs to redcinex at red?

[Tony Lorentzen]

We get feedback directly which is a wider and more detailed feedback group than reduser. Making judgements based on reduser is highly innaccurate and often confuses multiple issues into the same. That's why we ask to contact us directly so it goes through the proper support channels. REDuser is not tech support.

That said, we're already working on a solution.

That's comforting, Deanan. Much appreciated :-)

[Seth Larney]

We are having this issue a well (seem like the same issue when looking at the images posted here). We are on Assimilate Scratch on Windows 7..

[Rainer Fritz]

On Windows as well... thats new... isnt it ?

[Deanan]

On Windows as well... thats new... isnt it ?

It's possible as some motherboards show the same pci-e issues.

BTW, it's best to always email us images as I got sent one of Tony's images from another person to describe it but that images shows corruption from copying errors and isn't related to rocket. Not having an accurate diagnoses can really confuse things.

[Seth Larney]

That's my bad Deanan - I haven't been able to get 10minutes to do the proper due diligence with cross-checking and providing reference images. I will absolutely get to that asap.

[Tony Lorentzen]

It's possible as some motherboards show the same pci-e issues.

BTW, it's best to always email us images as I got sent one of Tony's images from another person to describe it but that images shows corruption from copying errors and isn't related to rocket. Not having an accurate diagnoses can really confuse things.

Uhm, sorry... None of the images I've sent you were exported from corrupted clips. Would you please explain, thanks!

[Tony Lorentzen]

Has this problem been addressed in Redcine-X build 326 or is it something that is going to be fixed in a firmware/driver update?

[alex trettenero]

same problem here.
i had the bad idea to re upgrade the firmware just in case, and the problem eventually got much worse...
no problem solved with build 326, either.

[alex trettenero]

as a last resort, i've tried to swap red rocket board and graphics card.
and the fact is it seems to be working ok...
i'm rendering out very long takes to qt prores files ( more than 25 mins. long), and after the fifth render, it seems to be working seamless with no more glitches.
before the swap it was a real nightmare. and without using the red rocket, it would have been hell: this project only was more than 20 hours of shooting...

i'm still crossing my fingers.
i'll let you know..

[alex trettenero]

yes. after 35 30mins. takes rendered without a single glitch, i can say that the operation of swapping the position of graphic board and red rocket worked perfectly for me.
now i have the red rocket board in slot 1 and ati radeon board in slot 2.
my computer is a mac pro 2.9 ghz 8 cores.
everything is working ok.

[Tony Lorentzen]

Deanan - I hope you're subscribing to this thread. Has this issue been resolved?

[Deanan]

Deanan - I hope you're subscribing to this thread. Has this issue been resolved?

1.3.5 rocket driver/firmware improves compatibility with other cards over pci-e and motherboards. We continue to refine this as we come across other driver versions or revisions on the host side.

[Tony Lorentzen]

I heard someone tried swapping the graphics card and the Rocket card. Could that possibly help?

[Rainer Fritz]

We had in the past also issues, but they are gone... thx Deanan...