B4 HD 2/3 lens test

[Arthur Levy]

Has anyone tested the B4 mount with a 2/3" HD lens? If so, what were the results. Thanks.

Arthur

[Jean Wallez]

With a 2\3 SD zoom also.

[Stephen Williams]

With a 2\3 SD zoom also.

Hi,

You are joking? An SD zoom looks bad enough on an HD camera.

Stephen

[Jean Wallez]

OK, in broadcast they use the same over all diameter in 4:3 and 16:9 so
your lens covers both.
The quality of broadcast lenses has been good for S16 for let say the last
10 years. Before that it would be prudent to have the lens tested for the
required resolution and contrast. Of course this is a general statement as
each individual lens may have suffered some degradation due to
environmental exposure or mechanical stress. That being said we have
probably converted more than one hundred lenses over the years and many
clients are still using them with perfectly good results.
One important consideration about this converter is that I do not have a
source for cable to power the lens from the film camera. The lens has to be
used in a strictly manual mode.

Best regards,

Guy Genin
ZGC Inc.
264 Morris Ave
Mountain Lakes NJ 07046

[Stephen Williams]

The quality of broadcast lenses has been good for S16 for let say the last
10 years.
Best regards,

Guy Genin
ZGC Inc.
264 Morris Ave
Mountain Lakes NJ 07046

Hi Guy,

Interesting point of view, personally I think the quality of all S16 zooms available today are rather poor relative to modern 35mm Zooms.

Stephen

[Jean Wallez]

If it's good for S16,it's good for 2K....

[Stephen Williams]

If it's good for S16,it's good for 2K....

Hi,

It's just the definition & use of the word 'good' we don't agree on. IMO Get away with, would be better.

The best 35mm Zooms are razor sharp & inter-cut perfectly with the latest primes.

If you were saying a 'good' amount of breathing, rather than good breathing characteristics I could agree with you.

Stephen generally likes any lens made by Cooke Williams

[Jean Wallez]

Your solution for shooting 2K: Cooke for 35 ?
A 15X8 SD zoom (8-120mm) is a more realistic solution;some tests can help to open\close eyes.

[Stephen Williams]

Your solution for shooting 2K: Cooke for 35 ?
A 15X8 SD zoom (8-120mm) is a more realistic solution;some tests can help to open\close eyes.

Hi,

I have no solution for Shooting 2K with a Zoom to inter-cut with 4k shot with a Cooke S4 / Zeiss Ultra Prime. That is my whole point, my eyes are open & I regularly perform tests. As Laura from Cooke will confirm I am one of the few users of the Cooke 65sf attachment, my eyes are working.

Supply me with a 15 x 8 SD zoom in a PL mount & I will give you my opinion.

My best

Stephen

[Michael Hastings]

Your solution for shooting 2K: Cooke for 35 ?
A 15X8 SD zoom (8-120mm) is a more realistic solution;some tests can help to open\close eyes.

Koffi:

I have 3 Canon J15ax8 lenses, which were pretty high quality SD from late 90s early 2000s and was quite popular. I would offer one up for experimentation if it is needed.

These lenses were probably close to 15K when new, now go for about $2K on the used market. The 8mm is nice as it is a little wider than than most of the SD zooms that typically started at 9mm.

[Arthur Levy]

I would be very interested in feedback of how the 2K images look with a 2/3" HD zoom on the B4 mount.

[Stephen Williams]

Hi,

I have no solution for Shooting 2K with a Zoom to inter-cut with 4k shot with a Cooke S4 / Zeiss Ultra Prime.

Stephen

Hi Guy,

Been thinking a bit more about this, The Carl Zeiss Digi Zoom 6-24mm & 17-112mm are possibly going to be the best zooms out there for a windowed sensor, I did not say the cheapest.

Stephen

[Jean Wallez]

And a 15X8 SD Canon or Fujinon zoom is certainly the cheapest solution today but i can't try it until spring....

[Michael Hastings]

And a 15X8 SD Canon or Fujinon zoom is certainly the cheapest solution today but i can't try it until spring....

I thought you were talking about converting the lens to a pl mount - i.e. that you do these conversions?

Basically I was offering to donate one to the cause to be converted and tested. I have been working with Gibby and number 8 for the underwater housing and I am sure he would test the converted lens on his camera whenever it was done.

[laguun]

I have the HD AIF SSDE
angenieux 7.8-208 F2.2
angenieux 5.3-53 F2
and we shot many many fullfeatures, docs and commercials with them. extremly good in 1920*1080, but also pretty expensive.

I am somewhat sceptical regarding this whole B4/PL prisms adapter thing, simply as i have no experience with those devices yet. Anyone tried them?

[Jean Wallez]

Abakus 132 Converter Product Code 120

This is for the direct optical conversion of 2/3" video lenses into super-16 format. The stainless steel B4 mount at the front of the unit fits onto the rear of B4 mount video lenses. The rear of the unit interfaces with super-16 cameras using an Arri PL mount. Between the mounts is a system of high quality optics, so there is no loss of quality. The unit maximises the use of video lenses for cine super-16.

PRICE:1350£ from abakus-scientific.com

[Paul Hazlett]

http://www.abelcine.com/store/product.php?productid=1000253&cat=292&page=2

I got this lens for under 19k worth checking out sharp and wide.

[Ken Corben]

I would be very interested in feedback of how the 2K images look with a 2/3" HD zoom on the B4 mount.

Gibby and I should have some valuable feedback on this question next week since it is a possible major player in our upcoming Nat History television series work. We are planning on working with Canon and Fuji at Jackson Hole to shoot 2K with RED #8 in Yosemite at various 2K frame rates with the latest and greatest B4 HD lenses.

Apple is there with all the hardware and software to "bake" the footage. Now if only "Old Faithful" lives up to her name.

[Jean Wallez]

Hi guys,
There is a mistake;i am not a reseller but a future red user looking for an affordable,simple,lightweight configuration for shooting 2K hand held.Thanks for the offer Aqua ,I hope someone will test this adapter with HD and SD lenses.The urgency is to wait....

[Arthur Levy]

Thanks Ken. I am looking at the new Angenieux 19x7.3 AIF
http://www.angenieux.com/pages/index_frame.php?page=308.php?IdProd=148

[Arthur Levy]

I have another question. What functions will work on a 2/3" HD lens when connected to Red through a B4 mount other than the zoom control? I rarely use auto irsis now.

[Michael Hastings]

I have another question. What functions will work on a 2/3" HD lens when connected to Red through a B4 mount other than the zoom control? I rarely use auto irsis now.

Auto iris would have to be implemented by RED. I wouldn't hold your breath given all the other commitments on their plate.

[Steve Gibby]

On the Footage forum I just posted some impressions of the RED B4 adaptor and the Canon and Fujinon lenses we mounted on #8 at Jackson Hole, plus the descriptions of other B4 2/3" lenses we'll be testing on #8 tomorrow and Friday:

Link:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5106&page=3

[Alex D. da Silva]

Thanks Ken. I am looking at the new Angenieux 19x7.3 AIF
http://www.angenieux.com/pages/index_frame.php?page=308.php?IdProd=148

Have anyone test this zoom yet?

I've seen it at NAB but briefly. Looks very well built and if it delivers the usual excellent Angenieux quality can be a good option for the RED one ENG.

[Dalibor Fencl]

What do you think of this lens as a primary zoom for a 2K RED hand held rig?

http://www.zgc.com/zgc.nsf/c7a682995edb4e7585256b4d001ebd57/3e992155ec7dd29b85256ffc0069fc0a?OpenDocument



Hi Andrew

This pretty nice Canon is twin brother to 7-63mm one. They both are great, always used them for S16. I agree here with Koffi: Whatever is good (very good) for S16 has to be good (very good) for 2K windowed on RED.

But I'm afraid those nice Canons aren't the topic of this thread as they are PL mount, manual, nothing like ENG lens with 2/3 B4.

[Mark Crabtree]

I bought the adapter and have done some rough test shots with a standard def ENG lens on my Red #100. The results have been very encouraging. Whereas I noticed a definate softness when I used this lens on my VariCam, I am not seeing that on the Red at 2K. I will do more extensive tests next week and will take my Fuji HD lens off the Varicam and test it too. But I will predict that this adapter is going to be a great option for using the Red the way we are so used to working EFP/ENG. The zoom on my Fuji HD lens has many speeds and start stop programable positions and is silky smooth and lightweight.
Perfect for docs and car spots. Of course for dramatic work I'm going to want the 35mm DOF look and will use 35mm lenses.

[Jean Wallez]

Very interesting;could we have a comparative shoot between SD and HD zoom next week?Wich SD zoom did you use?

[Michael Hastings]

I bought the adapter and have done some rough test shots with a standard def ENG lens on my Red #100. The results have been very encouraging. Whereas I noticed a definate softness when I used this lens on my VariCam, I am not seeing that on the Red at 2K. I will do more extensive tests next week and will take my Fuji HD lens off the Varicam and test it too. But I will predict that this adapter is going to be a great option for using the Red the way we are so used to working EFP/ENG. The zoom on my Fuji HD lens has many speeds and start stop programable positions and is silky smooth and lightweight.
Perfect for docs and car spots. Of course for dramatic work I'm going to want the 35mm DOF look and will use 35mm lenses.

This doesn't surprise me about SD lenses. Many HD lenses are just the SD lens design with a bit better quality control, maybe improved coatings and the like. The highend modern era broadcast SD lenses - say late 90s in the $12K and up range are very good optically.

[Michael Brennan]

This doesn't surprise me about SD lenses. Many HD lenses are just the SD lens design with a bit better quality control, maybe improved coatings and the like. The highend modern era broadcast SD lenses - say late 90s in the $12K and up range are very good optically.

In HD camcorder world I dont think it is a good idea to use SD lenses on a HD camera.

Very center sharpness can be close to HD res but middle and edge sharpness isn't. MTF is another issue. Wide aperture SD sucks big time.

When you compared with Varicam with RED are you referring to live off monitor viewing or comparing with RED alert?

The adapter is made to refocus the image from three distinct planes to one plane for single chip use.
But there is a difference in the relative position of these planes between HD and SD lenses (HD prism is different physical dimension to SD)

The adaptor is made for HD lenses not SD.
The effect is more noticable on full res HD cameras rather than Varicam.
That you are not seeing many problems could be that the image on RED via the adaptor isnt giving enough detail for you to see the problems.

or
their could be some happy twist of optics where the adapter is making a SD lens much better by refocusing three planes to one.

Will be interesting to see tests...

Mike Brennan