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Nawaf AL-Wahaib
08-04-2010, 03:43 AM
hi

i try to play full 4k but My redroket can not play full 4k smoothly in my mac
why?????
if i play the 1/2 of 4k it play smoothly and fine


thanks

Nook Kim
08-04-2010, 09:08 AM
How fast is your HDD?

Nawaf AL-Wahaib
08-04-2010, 11:09 PM
i did test and the result in attached photo

Gunleik Groven
08-04-2010, 11:37 PM
What Mac?
How much RAM?
GPU?
Which system version?
What RR firmware?
Redcine X? What RCX?
RocketcineX? What Rocketcine X?

From what I can see. the disk is not the issue... -:)

Cheers!

Nawaf AL-Wahaib
08-05-2010, 12:05 AM
What Mac?
How much RAM?
GPU?
Which system version?
What RR firmware?
Redcine X? What RCX?
RocketcineX? What Rocketcine X?

From what I can see. the disk is not the issue... -:)

Cheers!

i am using last redcine 258
firmware i the last one
for more info. please see the attached photos

Gunleik Groven
08-05-2010, 12:14 AM
Thanks.

The last page of interest is the PCI-cards page, to see which your RR is in.

That said, this is a 1st gen 8-core. I have seen people report some problems with that. I dunno which or why.

Have you tested playback directly from RocketcineX. If that works well, it probably is Redcine-X related.

On a 2nd gen 8-core, I get full playback only over SDI, while I have to be happy with half debayer for computer display... But this is for Rocketcine 1740

Alex Carr
08-05-2010, 12:55 AM
I would guess you should try 800mhz FB-DIMMS. I think thats the fastest you can use in that tower. I'll look at the service manual. I say that because I'm able to play back 4k from a single Drive over e-sata over HD/SDI, but I'm using a Quad i7 2.66, 1600mhz Sticks and 12GB worth. And the Rocket is in a x16 Slot.

sander kamp
08-05-2010, 01:06 AM
My Rocket does full debayer over dvi and sdi and for rendering out. But on the computer monitor it says something that it is not supported on this monitor. I always understood that it was exceeding the maximum resolution of the graphics board or something. Never been a problem for me.

Nawaf AL-Wahaib
08-05-2010, 06:08 AM
thanks for respond

does redroket support playing full 4k in computer monitor ??????
now i do not know what should i do ??? thinking too much...
red company ... i need solution !!!

Andrew T Foster
08-05-2010, 02:10 PM
Hello,

What slot is your Rocket in? Is it in Slot-2 next to the video card?

ATF

Deanan
08-05-2010, 02:11 PM
thanks for respond

does redroket support playing full 4k in computer monitor ??????
now i do not know what should i do ??? thinking too much...
red company ... i need solution !!!

It works but where it can hit bottlenecks is the generation mac, graphics card, and slot location/configuration.

What we use:
mac pro 4,1
2.66ghz 4 core
nvidia 120 GT or 285 or a recent ATI (nvidia is needed for 4.5k)
Graphics card should have at least 512MB of memory.


In your machine, you may need to rearrange the pcie config to have the graphics card in a x16 slot and rocket in a x8 slot.

Nawaf AL-Wahaib
08-06-2010, 08:57 AM
Hello,

What slot is your Rocket in? Is it in Slot-2 next to the video card?

ATF

yes

Nawaf AL-Wahaib
08-06-2010, 09:09 AM
It works but where it can hit bottlenecks is the generation mac, graphics card, and slot location/configuration.

What we use:
mac pro 4,1
2.66ghz 4 core
nvidia 120 GT or 285 or a recent ATI (nvidia is needed for 4.5k)
Graphics card should have at least 512MB of memory.


In your machine, you may need to rearrange the pcie config to have the graphics card in a x16 slot and rocket in a x8 slot.


please check with attached system details and tel me from where the problem
please read from the thread beginning you will find all system details.
thanks

Andrew T Foster
08-06-2010, 10:15 AM
Hello,

What card is in your slot-3? I noticed you had a "CalDigit" drive listed in the hard drive test (good choice! I use two of the HDOne's myself). That generation of Mac (the first one) may configure the default Slot-3 to a 1x lane speed. Can you run the Expansion Slot Utility.app (located in Macintosh HD/System/Library/CoreServices) and take a screen shot for us?

Also if you are streaming the video off a CalDigit HDOne or HDPro, what RAID configuration do you have the drive set to? If your system is in a stock config, that Slot-3 maybe be at 1x instead of at least 4x. The HDOne PCIe bridge card needs 4x (if you have the double card for two HDOne or HDPros - obviously it's 8x).

The fellow I work with, who primarily edits RED footage, had to bump his HDOne to RAID 5 from RAID 6 and disable Cache Synchronization (located in the CalDigit Raid Utility.app) as well as disabling Active Sustained Transfer Technology (also in the Raid Utility.app). Odd that CalDigit had him turn that off when having some drive speed issues.

Send us a screen shot of the Expansion Slot Utility so we can see how you have the lanes configured.

I just received our Rocket about two weeks ago. It has no problem playing footage at 4k from the HDOne but will hiccup on any internal SATA 7200rpm 32MB-64MB cache drives.

You definitely have to plan around hard drive speeds, video card, and memory.


My Mac Pro config;

Mac Pro (2008)
16GB OWC FB-DIMM 800MHz ECC Memory
ATI 3870 512mb Video Card (Slot 1 - 16x)
Red Rocket (Slot 2 - 8x)
CalDigit HDOne 8 TB RAID-6 HD Array (Slot 3 - 4x)
LSI SAS Controller (Slot 4 - 4x)
(4) 1 TB 7200rpm 64mb cache Western Digital Caviar Black HDs - Internal SATA


Best!

ATF

Gunleik Groven
08-06-2010, 10:20 AM
It is in an 8x lane. It should be in a 16...

Nawaf AL-Wahaib
08-06-2010, 11:15 AM
Hello,

What card is in your slot-3? I noticed you had a "CalDigit" drive listed in the hard drive test (good choice! I use two of the HDOne's myself). That generation of Mac (the first one) may configure the default Slot-3 to a 1x lane speed. Can you run the Expansion Slot Utility.app (located in Macintosh HD/System/Library/CoreServices) and take a screen shot for us?

Also if you are streaming the video off a CalDigit HDOne or HDPro, what RAID configuration do you have the drive set to? If your system is in a stock config, that Slot-3 maybe be at 1x instead of at least 4x. The HDOne PCIe bridge card needs 4x (if you have the double card for two HDOne or HDPros - obviously it's 8x).

The fellow I work with, who primarily edits RED footage, had to bump his HDOne to RAID 5 from RAID 6 and disable Cache Synchronization (located in the CalDigit Raid Utility.app) as well as disabling Active Sustained Transfer Technology (also in the Raid Utility.app). Odd that CalDigit had him turn that off when having some drive speed issues.

Send us a screen shot of the Expansion Slot Utility so we can see how you have the lanes configured.

I just received our Rocket about two weeks ago. It has no problem playing footage at 4k from the HDOne but will hiccup on any internal SATA 7200rpm 32MB-64MB cache drives.

You definitely have to plan around hard drive speeds, video card, and memory.


My Mac Pro config;

Mac Pro (2008)
16GB OWC FB-DIMM 800MHz ECC Memory
ATI 3870 512mb Video Card (Slot 1 - 16x)
Red Rocket (Slot 2 - 8x)
CalDigit HDOne 8 TB RAID-6 HD Array (Slot 3 - 4x)
LSI SAS Controller (Slot 4 - 4x)
(4) 1 TB 7200rpm 64mb cache Western Digital Caviar Black HDs - Internal SATA


Best!

ATF


please check with the attached details

Andrew T Foster
08-06-2010, 02:55 PM
Hello,

Others should weigh in, but I would pick the option above the current option you are using.

Give your video card back it's full 16x lane in slot-1, move slot-2 down to a 8x speed for the Rocket, and the other two lanes at 4x.

ATF

Nawaf AL-Wahaib
08-07-2010, 02:45 AM
Hello,

Others should weigh in, but I would pick the option above the current option you are using.

Give your video card back it's full 16x lane in slot-1, move slot-2 down to a 8x speed for the Rocket, and the other two lanes at 4x.

ATF

the option above is decreesing the slot-2 speed so how it will work at maximum speed it will be 1x ?

Andrew T Foster
08-07-2010, 03:37 PM
Hello,

Maybe I read the graph wrong. I was trying to see if you could get your slot 1 back to 16x, slot 2 to 8x and the other two to 4x.

What drive are you trying to play footage off? Your external Cal Digit or the internal SATA drives? What kind of drives are you
using internally? Which Cal Digit model is it?

Thanks!


ATF

Nawaf AL-Wahaib
08-07-2010, 03:55 PM
Hello,

Maybe I read the graph wrong. I was trying to see if you could get your slot 1 back to 16x, slot 2 to 8x and the other two to 4x.

What drive are you trying to play footage off? Your external Cal Digit or the internal SATA drives? What kind of drives are you
using internally? Which Cal Digit model is it?

Thanks!


ATF


i tried caldigit hdpro and internal drives with mac raid
same problem...

Andrew T Foster
08-07-2010, 06:07 PM
Hello,

The Mac RAID card is a pretty expensive and poor performing solution (to let you know).

How do you have your CalDigit HDPro setup? Did you check those settings I mentioned in my previous post? Maybe a few screen shots using the RAID Shield.app from CalDigit of the HDPro settings?

To be clear, whenever you are playing any video from the HDPro array in RedCine-X (version 2.58), it doesn't play properly at 23.98 fps when viewing on your monitor?

Can you give more information on the clips you are playing? Specifically resolution, fps, etc..

Thanks!

ATF

Nawaf AL-Wahaib
08-08-2010, 01:38 AM
Need to play 4k @25fps and 4.5k @25fps ... has same issue.

Thanks

Nawaf

Deanan
08-08-2010, 02:08 AM
Need to play 4k @25fps and 4.5k @25fps ... has same issue.

Thanks

Nawaf

Are you able to try it in a later mac?
The macpro 2,1 (from 2007) has problems with pci-e bandwidth.

Nawaf AL-Wahaib
08-08-2010, 08:33 AM
so why red didnot mention that :(

Deanan
08-08-2010, 10:32 AM
so why red didnot mention that :(

4k out of the card to a 4k monitor works fine on the machine.
4k playback through the card into a machine and out the graphics card is dependent on many things. We can't test and make notes for every machine type and combination out there.

Nawaf AL-Wahaib
08-08-2010, 11:56 AM
In my opinion RED Should mention the minimum system required to play full 4k in the mac pro, which version is compatible with full 4k play , and i am sorry to tel you that dear :( ... you mean i should buy new mac !! hhhhhh

Gunleik Groven
08-08-2010, 12:01 PM
I am curious as to how you're planning out 4k to the computer-monitor. What GPU supports that, and what kind of screen/projector do you have.

Why is it a problem to play out from the card?

This just out of curiosity.

Nawaf AL-Wahaib
08-08-2010, 04:09 PM
I am curious as to how you're planning out 4k to the computer-monitor. What GPU supports that, and what kind of screen/projector do you have.

Why is it a problem to play out from the card?

This just out of curiosity.


dear, i am talking about playing full 4k not out from the card
play directly in red cine x i mean in apple computer 24'' monitor .
:nonod:

Gunleik Groven
08-08-2010, 04:23 PM
But that monitor cannot show you 4k..., it actually tops out @ 1080, so you'd need 4 of thos e to display 4k... If your GPU could handle 4 screens, that is...

If it is for projection, you should really go with the SDIs or DVIs on the card...

Kaku Ito
08-08-2010, 10:29 PM
hi

i try to play full 4k but My redroket can not play full 4k smoothly in my mac
why?????
if i play the 1/2 of 4k it play smoothly and fine


thanks

Are you talking about the playback on the desktop? That will not playback full 4k anyway. Full debayer playback is provided on from the RR's output.

Nawaf AL-Wahaib
08-09-2010, 02:40 AM
Are you talking about the playback on the desktop? That will not playback full 4k anyway. Full debayer playback is provided on from the RR's output.


no not really
try to export 4k in apple ProRes and try to play it in your computer
it will play...

Nick Shaw
08-09-2010, 02:55 AM
no not really
try to export 4k in apple ProRes and try to play it in your computer
it will play...

But it needs to be scaled to fit on your desktop. What is the difference between sending full rez 4k to your graphics card and making that scale it to fit on the desktop, and letting the Rocket scale it and sending the graphics card a version which already fits the desktop?

Remember the Rocket always does a "full high" de-Bayer. When you choose "half" in REDcineX with a Rocket you are telling the Rocket to scale to half size from a full 4k de-Bayer, not asking it to decode at half size.

Gunleik Groven
08-09-2010, 03:27 AM
Actually it sounds like your rocket is working like it should...

Nawaf AL-Wahaib
08-09-2010, 04:07 AM
But it needs to be scaled to fit on your desktop. What is the difference between sending full rez 4k to your graphics card and making that scale it to fit on the desktop, and letting the Rocket scale it and sending the graphics card a version which already fits the desktop?

Remember the Rocket always does a "full high" de-Bayer. When you choose "half" in REDcineX with a Rocket you are telling the Rocket to scale to half size from a full 4k de-Bayer, not asking it to decode at half size.

please try to choose in redcine x full view and check the picture details.

Gunleik Groven
08-09-2010, 04:26 AM
It's true (@ least in Rocketcine-x) that when you choose 1/2 & 1/4, you only get those previews over DVI/GPU, but that doesn't afect rendering.

Over SDI/the rocket cards outputs, it is allways full.

I suggest you connect a monitor (dvi/sdi/hdmi) to the rockets outputs, as it sounds like that is the effect you really want...

Nick Shaw
08-09-2010, 05:08 AM
please try to choose in redcine x full view and check the picture details.

Clearly there is more picture detail when you zoom in to 1:1 on a full 4k image than when you do the same to one which has been scaled to 50%.

However the only time this make a real difference is if you set the scale to 100% and try and play back looking at a pixel for pixel window on the image. Is this what you are trying to do? Maybe to check focus? I would agree that the fact that some systems are not fast enough to do this is frustrating.

However for normal full screen playback the difference between "1/2" and "Full" is negligible. If you go to full screen mode, set scale to "Fit Both", and toggle between "1/2" and "Full" you will see virtually no difference.

Kaku Ito
08-09-2010, 09:18 AM
Actually it sounds like your rocket is working like it should...

Yep.