How difficult is format switching?

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

Switching to windowed 2K from 4K to allow for easier DOF in a run and gun scenario would make things a bit easier I guess.

How problematic is that? Just switch to a different format option (with an assignable button maybe?) or does it require a reboot of the camera?

Also that should not be a big problem in post ......... or is it?

Jochen

[Rob Lohman]

Just switch it in the menu and I think you need to put in a new card or reformat your current one (I'm not entirely sure on that though)

[Ruairi Robinson]

Just switch it in the menu and I think you need to put in a new card or reformat your current one (I'm not entirely sure on that though)

So... say you are using a red drive, and you already have an HOUR of footage recorded - you have to reformat just to do one shot in 2k? That can't be right!

[Evan Owen]

Just switch it in the menu and I think you need to put in a new card or reformat your current one (I'm not entirely sure on that though)

I imagine changing cards is a temporary requirement right? I'm really hoping this will change eventually... that would be really bad for EFP / docs...

[Rob Lohman]

You set a card / drive to a project, that project contains resolution & project framerate (basically playback framerate, can be different from recording framerate).

I will verify today if this works this way or not on my camera here...

[laguun]

You set a card / drive to a project, that project contains resolution & project framerate (basically playback framerate, can be different from recording framerate).

I will verify today if this works this way or not on my camera here...

I know many people don´t want to hear that, especially the dps - but thats excellent from the point of view of the postproduction :)

Having to deal with varispeed in regular media can be -totally- complicated in editorial, off-online, batch, vfx etc.

[Evan Owen]

I know many people don´t want to hear that, especially the dps - but thats excellent from the point of view of the postproduction :)

Having to deal with varispeed in regular media can be -totally- complicated in editorial, off-online, batch, vfx etc.

I'm not worried about variable framerates. One project framerate setting per card makes total sense to me. Remember that project framerate doesn't have to equal shooting framerate...

What worries me is having to switch cards if I just want to switch between 4K and 2K...

[Damien Molineaux]

I'm not worried about variable framerates. One project framerate setting per card makes total sense to me. Remember that project framerate doesn't have to equal shooting framerate...

What worries me is having to switch cards if I just want to switch between 4K and 2K...

To me, it seems more problematic having to change drives if you're just changing framerate, as I think here we're only talking about shooting frame rate. However, if that is a requirement, changing a CF card, or if shooting on a Drive, switching to CF, just for a few shots is probably not really a problem.

Cheers,
Damien

[Evan Owen]

To me, it seems more problematic having to change drives if you're just changing framerate, as I think here we're only talking about shooting frame rate. However, if that is a requirement, changing a CF card, or if shooting on a Drive, switching to CF, just for a few shots is probably not really a problem.

Cheers,
Damien

I think Rob was pretty clear that the per-card framerate setting is for the project, not the framerate you're shooting at:


You set a card / drive to a project, that project contains resolution & project framerate (basically playback framerate, can be different from recording framerate).

In other words, say your project is 2K at 23.976. You set that as your project framerate when you format your cards, and then shoot at anywhere from 1-100fps (all on the same card if you want). The frames are just saved into the file as they're captured, and played back at the project framerate later (23.976).

I can't think of any occasion I'd want to change project framerate mid-card. I don't see it as an issue at all...

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

Project frame rate maybe not, but imagine an interview where the subject deceides to get up and do something else - and you switch from 4K to 2K widowed because your shooting wide open and can´t predict its movements.

I wonder how this changes the lens characteristics though....

Ahm,.... windowed that is.....

Jochen

[Evan Owen]

Project frame rate maybe not, but imagine an interview where the subject deceides to get up and do something else - and you switch from 4K to 2K widowed because your shooting wide open and can´t predict its movements.

I wonder how this changes the lens characteristics though....

Ahm,.... windowed that is.....

Jochen

Exactly. When it comes to switching between 4K and 2K, having to switch cards would be a pain.

[Andy Fordham]

Lets hope that we don't have to do the same on the REDDrives when they arrive, this would be a pain not to be able to use different format selections over the drive.

Any news ?

[tj williams]

Rob????

[Evan Owen]

LOL ... this is like the question of the day.

I'm not freaking out. This is a huge issue, so I'm sure they'll figure out a way to make switching formats fast and easy before too long.

[Damien Molineaux]

Project frame rate maybe not, but imagine an interview where the subject deceides to get up and do something else - and you switch from 4K to 2K widowed because your shooting wide open and can´t predict its movements.

I wonder how this changes the lens characteristics though....

Ahm,.... windowed that is.....

Jochen

Wait, I find that very odd wanting to change from 2K to 4K not only on a same project but in a same scene ?! 2k windowed will certainly be more forgiving focus wise when projectd in 2k or HD, than 4K projected in 4k, but would it really change something if your output is with both your 2k and 4k footage the same format ?

That is, if you downres slightly soft 4k, to 2k, it'll appear sharper, and if you blow up 2k to 4k, you will loose sharpness. If you mix 2k and 4k, I don't think you will gain in sharpness with the 2k material, and more so, your images will be very difficult to mix because they will look quite different.

On the other hand, if you need higher frame rates, well you have to live with diference.

Cheers,
Damien

[Brandon Fraley]

its not a question of sharpness, it's about sensor size and DOF characteristics.

lets say you know ur going to finish in 2k or HD. You might want to shoot 4k for archive but also because it uses the full 35mm sensor. That 35mm sensor however, can make it very difficult to keep things in focus (sometimes good, sometimes bad). So for run and gun stuff, people may want to switch over to 2k windowed to get a half sized sensor with more forgiving DOF.

So yeah, people are asking about focus in relation to DOF, not overall sharpness

[martinnoweck]

hi there,

would be interesting to know more about this subject. while shooting with dvcpro hd a few weeks ago i remember i had to turn the camera off and on again after switching from 1080i to 720/50p. took a few seconds.

postproduction wise i agree with laguun -it was quite painful working with mixed formats on the same dvcpro hd tape, because selecting the right combination in the vtr menu required rebooting the vtr after every change. so try and error took quite a while ;-)

don't know if switching from 4k to 2k would really help to keep focus.

all the best,
martin

[Häakon]

don't know if switching from 4k to 2k would really help to keep focus.
Depends if it's windowed or scaled. Scaled mode takes the entire 4K image and shrinks it down to a 2K size - so the DOF is identical. Windowed mode, however, takes just a centered crop of the pixels - so in order to maintain the same field of view, you have to use wider/16mm lenses (and this expands your range of acceptable focus). Doing a "run and gun" in this scenario would probably be more beneficial to the shooter than shooting in 4K or in 2K scaled, because the focus will be easier to control.

[Rob Lohman]

I'll ask Stuart to respond to how this all came about. Today you need to reformat if you change the *project* framerate or change the resolution.