Is 2k scaled dropped?

[Gunleik Groven]

Got a message from some guy in Norway that the scaled formats are dropped.

Then I must have missed something.
Reasonable that I coud have, but still...

I thought 2k scaled just wasn't part of the current firmware.

Am I off?

Gunleik

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Tell the guy in Norway he's confused.

2K scaled is still in the works.

[Nils Ruinet]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4928


2K scaled is down the road a bit.

Jim

Apparently it's still planed :shifty:

[Tom Lowe]

2K scaled with overcranking is the holy grail right now, until such time as 4K onboard overcrankage is a reality!

I am thinking of setting up a slush fund here that we can use to bribe Graeme into bumping 2K scaled up his list of things to do, if it is indeed Graeme who would handle it. Perhaps a thouand-dollar bottle of rare Scotch whiskey?

Graeme, name your price! :)

[Gunleik Groven]

THX


Then, masters of the forum:

Kill this FUD!

G

[Graeme Nattress]

We have plans and ideas, just one thing at a time.....

Graeme

[Tom Lowe]

Graeme, what you say to a bottle of 1969 Glenlivet?

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/6425/bottleeb9.jpg

[Graeme Nattress]

I'd say exactly the same as I said above, but with a drunken voice.

Graeme

[I Bloom]

I'd say exactly the same as I said above, but with a drunken voice.

Graeme

That's dedication man. I'd like to meet drunk-Graeme sometime. I'd re-ask him all the questions I have for sober-Graeme.

IBloom

[Tom Lowe]

He shows up here once in a while, mainly trading barbs with David Newman. :)

[Mark K.]

2K scaled with overcranking is the holy grail right now, until such time as 4K onboard overcrankage is a reality!

I am thinking of setting up a slush fund here that we can use to bribe Graeme into bumping 2K scaled up his list of things to do, if it is indeed Graeme who would handle it. Perhaps a thouand-dollar bottle of rare Scotch whiskey?

Graeme, name your price! :)


Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't 2K "scaled" be limited to the same framerates as 4K? I thought it was only 2K "windowed" that would give you the higher frame rates, as scaled 2K is still intially captured as 4K.

Is this right or am I just confused?

[Kevin Halverson]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't 2K "scaled" be limited to the same framerates as 4K? I thought it was only 2K "windowed" that would give you the higher frame rates, as scaled 2K is still intially captured as 4K.

Is this right or am I just confused?

That is also my understanding as 4k frame rate limitation is dominated by the maximum sensor clock rate, not the computational capabilities of the FPGA.

[Tom Lowe]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't 2K "scaled" be limited to the same framerates as 4K? I thought it was only 2K "windowed" that would give you the higher frame rates, as scaled 2K is still intially captured as 4K.

Is this right or am I just confused?

No. As far as I know, unless I'm missing something, we have been discussing 2K scaled mainly in terms of the possibility of overcranking "onboard" with our 35mm lenses and everything being the same as 4K. At least I thought so!

The "bottleneck" is supposed to be the chip, as far as I know.

Graeme? Jim?

[Jannard]

No. As far as I know, unless I'm missing something, we have been discussing 2K scaled mainly in terms of the possibility of overcranking "onboard" with our 35mm lenses and everything being the same as 4K. At least I thought so!

The "bottleneck" is supposed to be the chip, as far as I know.

Graeme? Jim?

The bottleneck is at the sensor. You can have (sometime in the near future) 2K scaled up to 60fps. That's it. It is also the reason that 2K windowed at 100fps is such a big deal.

Remember that 2k windowed should be compared to a Viper, HDCAM and SI. Actually, we look forward to those comparisons.

Jim

[Anders Holck]

Jim, just theoretically speaking: The 60 fps cap, isn't that addressing the full 4.5k 16x9 sensor? Wouldn't just reading out a cropped 4k 1:2 image without "look around" enable a few extra fps?

[Mark K.]

Sorry Jim, I'm still a little confused on this - is "scaled" 2K the same as 4K (in terms of DOF, framerates etc.) just downconvertered in camera to the lower 2K resolution/file size?

[Tom Lowe]

Yes, that is right, Grug. But regarding "framerates", we would get more from 2K downsampled.

[David Battistella]

Sorry Jim, I'm still a little confused on this - is "scaled" 2K the same as 4K (in terms of DOF, framerates etc.) just downconvertered in camera to the lower 2K resolution/file size?

It took me awhile to understand this.

Scaled=Footage is Scaled from 2k to 4k (4k dof)
cropped=the footage is center cut from the sensor (2k dof)

scaled=the whole sensor is used
cropped=a 2k portion of the sensor is sampled (thus allowing overcrnaking)


david

[Jannard]

Sorry Jim, I'm still a little confused on this - is "scaled" 2K the same as 4K (in terms of DOF, framerates etc.) just downconvertered in camera to the lower 2K resolution/file size?

2K scaled is the same DOF as 4K. About the only advantage would be more recording time on your card. 2K windowed does not have the same DOF as 4K, but allows a higher frame rate.

Jim

[David Battistella]

Yes, that is right, Grug. But regarding "framerates", we would get more from 2K downsampled.

Tom,

The higher framerates are only possible in the cropped sensor, 60fps max for the scaled (downconverted)

David

[Mark K.]

Cool, that's what I thought guys. Cheers.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

2K scaled still has frame rate advantages too. As far as I understand it, on-board 4K recording will be limited to 30fps or so and to get the full 60fps at 4K, you would need to record the uncompressed RAW data from the RAW port. So if you want to record the full sensor area with 35mm DOF at 60fps on-board the camera, then 2K scaled is the answer.

[Tom Lowe]

Tom,

The higher framerates are only possible in the cropped sensor, 60fps max for the scaled (downconverted)

David


Am I on crack here?

Jim just said: "You can have (sometime in the near future) 2K scaled up to 60fps."

60fps is all I'm looking for.

[Gunleik Groven]

Nope

Or if you are, I got the same batch

G

[tj williams]

2K cropped 1--fps 2K scaled 60fps!!! I for one can imagine shooting a lot of projects for TV in 2K especially when slo mo is a major component of the show, or storage considerations in remote areas, limited budget, or documentary / EFP shooting styles are factors.

The SI camera making 2K wavelets and downconverting to HD output makes very pretty images. If the RED 2K is better looking than this, it will be hard to improve on...

IMHO
It may be hard to tell the RED 2K images from the 4K images when they are output as HD for TV. I would say impossible when output for SD TV.

[Karl H]

agreed at SD you wont notice, but at HD you will. Right now anyone can try this themselves. Create a 2K document in photoshop and drag one of the 4K tiffs into it - what you'll see is a 2K crop at 100%.

its definately softer; however it's only going to get used for shooting at 60-100fps. If red can enable scaled 2K from 1-60fps then it limits the windowed mode to 60-100. It becomes less of an issue.

But Very nice to have!

[Tom Lowe]

Assuming that the downsampling is first rate in camera, yes, in theory, it will be basically impossible to tell 2K scaled from 4K when outputting to HD.

But you would be far more likely to be able to tell the difference between 2K cropped and 4K when transferred to HD.

[albert rudnicki]

Depending on the way it's done, the 4K scaled to 2K should look better then 2K acquired as 2K.
You always want more to start with.

[damonbots]

I have a feeling that the greater DOF of cropped 2K will be most welcome by many.