S3D Aerials Question

[Phil Bates]

I may have an opportunity to shoot helicopter aerials with 2 Reds set 6.3" apart. How close will I need to be to the subject in order to get the stereoscopic affect? What is the farthest away an object can be and still show some kind of slight effect?

The lenses will be Optimo 10:1 zooms. Will zooming in help with seeing the effect on distant objects? Would it be best to shoot everything as wide as possible?

Any problems I should anticipate or look for?

I realize that the IO is much more than the typical eye space, so I understand that the objects could appear smaller than normal.

Thanks,
Phil

[Peter Degerfeldt]

Hello Phil,

Go wider on both interocular and lens.
We shot this way 90 cm interocular with 24mm primes. Great :-)

blue skies/peter

[Phil Bates]

Hi Peter, unfortunately, 6.3" appears to be the maximum for this rig. If that is my limitation, what kind of distances will work?

Thanks
P

[Pedro Guimaraes]

Make anew plate.....(not that hard) we shot some helicopter aerials this year 7" stereobase......could of probably used alot more. We were limited by the tyler mid mount that we had.

[Eric Lange]

My impression of what you describe would be that everything would sort of split into two discernable depth planes, stuff that’s less than about 160 ft and stuff that is 160 ft plus set to an apparent infinity. That makes for pretty knarly stereo, like the other “dudes” are sayin,g wide angle, and big and bigger base separation/IOD.

What are you shooting (i.e what sort of terrain are you wanting to shoot and what is the desired effect that you aim to achieve)?

Cheers,

Eric

[Phil Bates]

Eric, I'll shoot whatever works with that particular IO distance. My guess is that low-level will be best, ocean, shoreline, forest, mountain ridges. All flying within 20ft or less of the objects.

I guess I am wondering if flying within 100ft of bridges, lighthouses, cranes or buildings will give enough of an effect to make those shots worth chasing.

Thanks,
Phil

[Phil Bates]

Make anew plate.....(not that hard) we shot some helicopter aerials this year 7" stereobase......could of probably used alot more. We were limited by the tyler mid mount that we had.

Pedro, I'd like to but I am limited by the gyrostabelized ball that will contain the two cameras. I've got to make the most of the cards I'm dealt...

Phil

[WesG]

Make anew plate.....(not that hard) we shot some helicopter aerials this year 7" stereobase......could of probably used alot more. We were limited by the tyler mid mount that we had.

Hi Pedro,

We are researching how we can shoot some 3D from a chopper and using a mid mount (continental) seems like a potentially cost effective option.
We have a basic bar allowing us to mount two cameras in parallel.
How did you go operating the mid mount with two cameras rigged?

Our bar will allow a large stereo base (approx 24") but wondering if we'll be able to operate the mid mount effectively.

I've also been looking at a stabilized nose mount, but unsure if I'll be able to raise the budget to make this happen.

Be great to hear your thoughts
Cheers
Wes

[Eric Lange]

Eric, I'll shoot whatever works with that particular IO distance. My guess is that low-level will be best, ocean, shoreline, forest, mountain ridges. All flying within 20ft or less of the objects.

I guess I am wondering if flying within 100ft of bridges, lighthouses, cranes or buildings will give enough of an effect to make those shots worth chasing.

Thanks,
Phil

What resolution and or format will the intended output be? Is this for big screen or small screen?

I might be able to crunch some numbers and come up with a cheesy anaglyph to "simulate" how the various depths might appear to be disposed. If you can fly within 20 to 100 ft of the subject then things might be more promising than initially supposed; I’m more used to stereographic aerial shots for terrain modeling/photogrammetry for government work (from higher altitudes, larger format and MUCH larger base separation/IOD).

Ta.

Eric


I’m sure Pedro might have a couple of stereograms lying around that show the disposition of parallaxes from 20ft to infinity for 25mm lens on a pair of REDONEs at 7" IOD ? ;)

[Pedro Guimaraes]

Hi Pedro,

We are researching how we can shoot some 3D from a chopper and using a mid mount (continental) seems like a potentially cost effective option.
We have a basic bar allowing us to mount two cameras in parallel.
How did you go operating the mid mount with two cameras rigged?

Our bar will allow a large stereo base (approx 24") but wondering if we'll be able to operate the mid mount effectively.

I've also been looking at a stabilized nose mount, but unsure if I'll be able to raise the budget to make this happen.

Be great to hear your thoughts
Cheers
Wes

email me and I send you some pics in private. 7" is max on tyler midmount.

A nose mount is far superior if you can afford it. Also lets you use much larger separation.

[Pedro Guimaraes]

I’m sure Pedro might have a couple of stereograms lying around that show the disposition of parallaxes from 20ft to infinity for 25mm lens on a pair of REDONEs at 7" IOD ? ;)


Sorry production has the footage. I can tell you we were flying very close to skiers.......very, very fancy flying by the pilot because of the side mounted camera. We were flying backwards at angles, rotating....wild stuff.

You can see 1 of the shots that operator Todd Jones did on that shoot on the 21st Century demo reel on yourtube in anaglyph.

Look for the skier jump shot.... that would be 7" base maybe 35mm (we had zoom's so it's hard to say...from memory I think it 35 in that one.

Amazing shot! watch around 2:15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz6fAFXOncc


have fun!!

[WesG]

Hi Pedro,

Yes that shots a beauty. Much prefer the bikini car wash clip though.

Have PMed you

cheers
wes

[Eric Lange]

Pedro you’re a star and a real gent.

That Ariel shot is freaking awesome. You get a sense of the rotations by how the background moves and how the Skier is “kept” by amazing flying to an almost stationary point in 3d space, with the “platform” flying in an arc “backwards”/sideways with camera moving at crazy angles to compensate to make it look “normal”.

How many hundreds of times did you replay that shot going.. awesome…awesome ..awesome..awesome…awesome?

What was nice about the 21st Century footage is that it showed clearly the benefit of cleverly controlled backgrounds, i.e big trucks parked behind the cars, dark indistinct backgrounds etc. Man I hate Heiniken, but man, I really wanted to grab that beer! [I think the advertisers are eventually going to bank roll a substantial, fraction of all 3d work]. Even though most of the shots are not what I would necessarily consider “perfect” optimization of what stereo can do; you do however get an excellent sense of space and structure of the various scenes. The stereo doesn’t have to be super optimized as you jump to a new cut every few seconds anyway. The crane shot of the street/crowd scene was surprisingly good in terms of well disposed apparent depths from fairly close up to all the way into the distance. I am really encouraged…

Cheers,

Eric

[Pedro Guimaraes]

Thanks for the kind words,

Even tough I was a part of most of the footage on that reel, All of the credit is owed to Jason Goodman as he was the stereographer on all of that footage except for the fight sequence around 3:11 (that was me). He of course has over 15 years of stereo work and it shows. I've been privileged to watch him work, ask questions and learn so much. Also lots of credit to the rig we used, his BX3. the footage, just speaks for itself doesn't it? That same footage projected or on a nice 3D TV is quite a sight.

I think the Heineken footage is actually some of the best 3D I have ever been a part of. The lighting was great and I guarantee you the beer looks even more tasty when viewed on a nice 3dTV.

That is just a snippet of some jaw dropping skiing shots we got during that shoot. The credit for operating goes to Todd Jones (DP) and his years and years of filming extreme skiing from helicopters. He did an amazing job with framing and dealing with a "big" camera system. But the Tyler mount did a great job as you can see. I machined the plate we used and spent more than a few hours rigging the tyler mount and helicopter. Getting the camera rig properly balanced on the tyler mount was tricky and I ended up adding some custom weights to get things more manageable and allow the gyros to start working again. After some fine tunning of the setup we flew and shot with it for 4-5 days. Like I said, some serious fancy flying was involved just feet from tree tops and close enough to blow rotor wash on the skiers.

Personally I can't wait to see all the 3D we shot that weekend when the movie (Lite the wick) is shown in a 3D theater. (just a small part of the movie will be 3D)

Check out thier website for a schedule of the screening dates.
http://www.tetongravity.com/light-the-wick/
http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=COvhoqGz2d7xwAEQhAIYfjIIA6vjqOpGK0w

[Pedro Guimaraes]

Hi Pedro,

Much prefer the bikini car wash clip though.


I think almost everyone prefers the bikini car wash clip, easily the crowd favorite.......and for good reason ; - )

[Jason Goodman]

Pedro is inflating my head, but thanks for the compliments. During the Teton shoot we were dangerously close to the skiers and the mountain, exactly how far, I'm not sure. I am a big fan of wide lenses and small IO, they can go a long way, so stay as wide and as close as you can. Do not assume that greater IO and / or more on screen parallax necessarily translate to a "better" or "stronger" 3D effect. I also am not one to abide by math based rules for 3D shooting. The current generation of 3D TVs, particularly LCD based sets suffer from pretty substantial ghosting. Depending on where your footage will be seen most, you should take this into account. Some of the most effective shots we have made over the years have almost no visible parallax when viewed without glasses. You just need to shoot a lot and gauge your results. Do everything you can to be present during post or do your own post if you really want to learn how your decisions effect the final look. It is true however that if you are very far from your subject, larger IO than 7" may be necessary. Tyler Camera Systems also offer a Major Mount in addition to their standard mid mount. This is a totally different configuration that we have used in Eurocoper Twin Star and A-Star aircraft. The max IO we have achieved with this unit is about 1 meter when used in conjunction with our hyperstereo mount. This is EXTREMELY cumbersome to operate but we were able to make good shots. Unfortunately, in some of those cases we were several hundred feet or more from the subject and the effect ranged from good to subtle to basically flat. 1/30 rule is a good starting point, but there is no substitute for testing.

Jason Goodman
CEO
21st Century 3D New York
505 8th Avenue #1006
New York, NY 10018
212-244-8585

21st Century 3D Hollywood
3450 Cahuenga Blvd W #509
Los Angeles, CA 90068
323-799-1046

http://www.21c3d.com
jason@21stcentury3d.com

[Eric Lange]

Thanks for the good and useful advice! Amazing work.

Cheers,

Eric

[Pedro Guimaraes]

Okay here you go, TGR finnally released a quick look behind the scenes of the aerials in their upcoming movie.

Check it out.........you can see me trying to stay warm next to the helo and helping Todd get the whole rig balanced.....

You can see some of the backwards fancy flying we were doing.....so much fun!

I just can't wait to see some of this footage on a big screen!

http://www.tetongravity.com/videos/Almost-Live-Behindthe-Sceneof-T-G-Rs3-D-Experiment-Episode13-1257094.htm

[Clyde DeSouza]

By all means shoot with a proper stereoscopic 3D rig.
But also try this: Do a few orbit shots around the subject of interest with the helicopter... kind of like a "backup" take.. then follow these instructions:

http://realvision.ae/blog/2010/08/aerial-shooting-for-3d-movies-the-easy-way/

(you can use one of the cam's footage)
Mix it where appropriate with the real Stereoscopic cameras.
P.s Caveat: NO vertical movement allowed however!

All the best.

[Phil Bates]

Thanks everyone! I am fairly certain that low level shots over ocean, shoreline, forest and desert will work well. But, I will be testing that IO on the ground first.

Phil