Dumb Side Camera Concerns - Ideas

[Jay A. Kelley]

I saw the RED "In Person" last week, and my wheels have been turning every since.

I see one potential issue with the use of the camera, and it gave rise to an idea I think is a real winner.

We all know, RED chose to use Mini ports where possible in order to make better use of space... Fair enough. However the size of the ports, as well as their placement can cause some headaches.

The ports themselves, while well made, will not stand up to the same abuse as standard ports. And sticking out of the side of the camera as they are, invites various bumps, kinks, and hits that are sure to lead to a short.

RED has already acknolowleged this by creating a right angle adaptor for it's LCD and EVFs. There is no doubt this will be mandatory for ALL cables coming off the side.

So we'll need to track down right angle, mini adaptors for the RED.. Something tells me this won't be a walk in the park right away.

My suggestion is a RED JUNCTION BOX. Bascially a short (2-3ft) snake cable that splits out to connect to the XLRs, Head phone jack, SDI connections, HDMI connections, USB etc (NOT viewfinder or LCD). All these connections would of the highest quality. They would have right angle connectors, and be turned in such a way as to insure no overlapping or kinking.

At the other end the cable would connect to a box which would be designed to mount to almost anything. This junction box would connect to the rods on the camera, or anywhere else. It would contain all the ports on the dumb side of the camera, but in STANDARD sizes, insuring compatiblity with everyone's equipment.

The advantage here is that you can aim the box to the rear, and remove any problems with cables going where you don't need them.

It would also serve as a quick release for the camera. Just pop the snake off the back of the junction box, and all those cables are freed from the camera for moving. Move the rig, plug the snake back into the box, and you are good to go.

I don't have time to render something like this out. But I am sure you can all see how helpful something like this would be.

Imagine, buy this ONE ITEM, and now all the cables you have will be just fine. No looking for small adaptors, no worrying about right angle cables.

Now we just need someone to it. :w00t:

Jay

[jbeale]

This sounds like a good idea to me! But what would people be willing to pay for something like this?

[Jay A. Kelley]

I'd go to about $250 myself
Jay

[Mike Prevette]

$250 is going to be rough to do. The connectors alone to do this are going to be almost $100 wholesale.

_mike

[Jay A. Kelley]

Well, then if it has to be more, it's more. Bottom line is that I belive it's something that is sorely needed.
Jay

[Trevor Meier]

The cine boys are going to be making these custom if someone doesn't do it wholesale... Someone might's well take the opportunity and make it for whatever it'll cost+profit and market it here, and I'm sure there will be buyers.

[Kyle Mallory]

The problem as I see this is that you still have the cable connections coming out the side of the camera into the snake. Still an opportunity for someone to bump or snag the plugs on the side, and do damage. Now, if you could incorporate all those plugs into a solid "box" that snaps on to the side of the camera, covering those ports, and hiding individual cables, thus protecting those plugs, but still providing the connections, that would be interesting (perhaps this is what you were describing, without renderings).

If all you're worried about is someone pulling on the mic cord, which pulls the camera off your shoulder, and does damage to the plugs in that action, then just build your own snake with a handful of 3' minis to full-size XLR, and wrap them up in some heat-shrink tubing (or something of the like).

[I Bloom]

I feel your pain. I'm a lefty and I was hoping RED would finally be a camera that I can properly handhold. Now I'm worried about damaging connectors with my face :)

I think the solution might be to clamp cables to the RED rails so there is no way to stress the connector by pulling the cable. A nice cable clamp that fits right into the rails would sell well.

Ian

[Matt Uhry]

I hope we'll see some products that rework that side of the camera. Either from Red or 3rd party ones. I was thinking more of a bolt on- like the ones CE made for Arri 3's back in the day. replace the back 2/3 of connectors and make it rugged industry standard. Joining sound into one line ( 3+1 on board with a pot or 4 channels ) but Leaving the LCD and EVF lemos where they are. Could be made in a stepped pattern so all the cables naturally went towards the front or rear of the camera as appropriate.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Scott Webster]

I hope we'll see some products that rework that side of the camera. Either from Red or 3rd party ones. I was thinking more of a bolt on- like the ones CE made for Arri 3's back in the day.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

Like to see bolt on full terminal box for the 4x mini-BNC's or a re-design of the entire panel to include it.

The rear LCD panel to be not part of the body but a separate display that could of been mounted anywhere on the camera or operated remotely/wired back to the camera(like the F23)That space could be then used for 4x full BNC connections.

A viewfinder mount needs to be developed that includes the standard pivot mount option. The noga arm option is going to drive the Op crazy. Position, Tighten, Shoot, Loosen, Tighten, Shoot -wait-adjust-tighten-Shoot, rinse and repeat.

I'm sure 'Red Matt' is working on a design. A lot of scope for the camera to be Panavised, Simised or Clairmonted. Wish we had the resources.

[Jay A. Kelley]

That's nice and all, but I'd like to keep the focus of this thread on the breakout box, and a different thread for re-design ideas.

I am speaking with a company now about possibily designing this.

Jay

[tj williams]

kyle mallory's idea of having the box snap directly over the connectors on the side of the red is a good one. The main problem here is that different types of production will require different breakout boxes. The second problem is additional weight.

There are a number of custom cable suppliers who make very reliable right angle cables. They just need the pin outs from red and the direction you want the cable to face relative to the connector. Because I will use the RED in so many different ways I will just buy an assortment of cables and put temp. cable ties on them to protect them as they run back to my standard cables. One thing that I will surely have made is an audio in 4 ch. mini XLR to std. type audio snake plug.

[Jay A. Kelley]

I hear ya. As for me, I think a short cable that allows us to get the "mess" away from camera is the way to go.

This way I never need worry about various adaptors and plugs. What would be cool, would be to take Kyle's idea, and then make a plate that would go over the side of the camera and replace it with a multi-port that would connect to one cable to from there go to the breakout box. Alas, at this point I am getting past my paygrade.

I think I will simply plug in my snake to the side of the camera, and then make a cover to keep people from hitting the connections.

Jay

[tj williams]

Jay maybe the cover could swing from the upper rods to lift up and lock over a spot on the lower rods. Clear high impact type plastic. That would obviate the need for right angle connectors!

[Matt Uhry]

A viewfinder mount needs to be developed that includes the standard pivot mount option. The noga arm option is going to drive the Op crazy. Position, Tighten, Shoot, Loosen, Tighten, Shoot -wait-adjust-tighten-Shoot, rinse and repeat.


The Noga arm is great for the LCD but will be terrible for the EVF. The EVF needs more of a film style approach where the movement is fluid and lockable in 1 axis.

Sorry to get off topic.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Jay A. Kelley]

It's ok.. Good ideas are better than no ideas. I was being anal.

:)

Jay

[Kyle Mallory]

Taking the various ideas from others... Depending on the configuration of the rails, etc. It could be something as simple as a sheet of folded aluminum that hinges on the upper rail, and hangs off, and down the side of the camera, with a few strategically placed 3/4"-1" stand-offs. You have your regular right-angle connectors, all tied together and tied to the lower rails, and then you let the aluminum protector hang down over the connectors. Not the prettiest solution, but it would provide the protection against those ruthless, no good, mean-spirited faces and shoulders.

I thought about doing some kind of a render, but.. well... my rendering skills are much worse than everyones imagination.

[Christopher Barry]

Perhaps something like this (http://fws01.silo23.com/) product for the HVX firewire connection. It appears to be a high density, light weight foam, or maybe plastic. Something like this may cushion some of the force of an accidental collision. Maybe something to consider.

[Michael Hastings]

There are a number of custom cable suppliers who make very reliable right angle cables. They just need the pin outs from red and the direction you want the cable to face relative to the connector.

TJ Can you give me the names of some of these suppliers, as I need some cables for the underwater housing as well.

Thanks,

Mike
954 937 6600

[Jay A. Kelley]

I'm telling ya guys, a breakout box is the way to go here. With a quick release just think of how much time you will save hooking the camera up to everything, and you will reduce wear and tear on those poor little plugs by 80%.

Not to mention, your camer will be compatible with everyone else's cables. Tell me THAT'S not important.

Jay

[Kyle Mallory]

I don't think anyone is questioning a breakout box, just the cost of designing and manufacturing one. You could have the same basic functionality with a short home-made 'snake' and some kind of shield for the plug-side of the camera. Whatever path, the end result is the same: moving the "main" connectors off camera, and converting them to standard plugs.

I totally think a break out box, especially one that bolted/snapped onto the side, and completely covered/protected all the camera connectors would be awesome, I'm just thinking costs to design, prototype, parts, assemble, etc. In the end, you're probably looking at another 300$ part, just in parts. Add another 200% markup to cover R&D, manufacturing, overhead, and make a profit, and that's an expensive cable box.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Kyle..

I hate it when you make sense.. So stop it please... Right now.

:)

Jay

[Larry McKee]

I was planning to have some 12"-18" long adapter cables made so I don't have to use the camera inputs every time I plug in a cable. These short cables would then be strapped down to the upper Red rail for strain relief. I thought about getting 2 of the Side Handles to mount on that side of the camera and make a plate to bolt onto the handles to cover the connectors. I might have to add some spacers to offset the plate enough to clear the connectors plugged into the camera. Won't really know if all this will work until I get the camera in my hands.

[Michael Hastings]

I don't think anyone is questioning a breakout box, just the cost of designing and manufacturing one. .... Add another 200% markup to cover R&D, manufacturing, overhead, and make a profit, and that's an expensive cable box.

Information from the SBA (and other sources) suggest a sell price of about 4X the direct costs (parts & labor) for most manufactured goods. Eventually there will be enough cameras out there that a number of third party accessories will come out - but even then many will be more a labor of love than a real business decision.

[Kyle Mallory]

Kyle..

I hate it when you make sense.. So stop it please... Right now.


Jay,

You're starting to sound like my wife... :)