James Mathers
02-03-2007, 11:18 AM
Dear Future RED Users,
I’ve been commissioned to write an article on the the RED One for a European trade magazine known as Definition. I know from a quick review of the RED User Member List that many of you are also Digital Cinema Society members and have probably been following my analysis and speculations as to the camera’s development. For those not familiar with DCS, following is an excerpt from my last such missive titled, Getting “Reddy” - Preparing To Own a Red Camera.
I’ve interviewed some of my Pals at RED, but I would really love to also include your input into this upcoming article. My theme is that this camera is designed to be different things to different users, and I would love to know how various RED Users plan to design and accessorize their camera packages, and what applications they hope to serve; (i.e. Indie Features, Docs, Owner/Operators, Rental Houses). Your input will be truly appreciated and I think might benefit the entire community in getting a better picture of where we are all intending to go with our RED One cameras. Please reply to this post to share your thoughts and plans, or send me an e-mail if you prefer.
With Sincere Thanks,
James Mathers
Digital Cinema Society
Mathers@DigitalCinemaSociety.org
Excerpts from: Getting “Reddy” - Preparing To Own a Red Camera
It is often said that it is the Pioneers who get the arrows in the back, and it is surely a gamble to ride point in a charge into an unexplored frontier; but I am hopeful it will have it’s rewards. As number 30 on the order/deposit list for the delivery of a Red camera, I have started my preparation into creating a working camera system. Once the camera is delivered, I want to be able to hit the ground running.
I’ve been busy researching my options, but at this point, I have to admit that I have many more questions than answers to share. I’ve been in touch with my friends on the RED team, but the information that would help me make informed decisions has not been forthcoming. Apparently, the problem is that they are still busy figuring it all out themselves, and they don’t want to send anyone down the wrong path with premature speculation. So far, however, all I really know is what I’ve been able to glean from the RED.com website. I still don’t know exactly what will come with the camera, and what necessary options in addition to the camera will come from RED, nor what the cost of those items will be.
I’m guessing the viewfinder will be at an additional cost, as has become the custom in the last several years with other high end cameras. I’m also going to assume that the RED cage will be at some additional cost. All I really expect to receive for my $17,500 is a box holding the Mysterium sensor. It is unlikely that Flash memory will be included, and I will not be surprised if it will also cost extra to have the ability to swap between on-board recording and an adaptor for outputting 4K to some other recorder. There may also be an additional charge for the RED Code software necessary to work with popular NLEs and other file formats.
Although the website has stated “Estimated to ship Early 2007”, I’m sensing it will be sometime in the summer before my camera will actually be delivered. Please know that I’m not trying to chastise them if they deliver a little past their original goals, and I certainly don’t want to rush anybody. I appreciate the magnitude of what the RED team is attempting, and I trust they will take the shortest necessary time to get it right. However, it is now early 2007, so I figure I’d better start getting ready for when they do call and tell me to come pick up my camera. I’ll need to have the necessary cash on hand, and if I want to actually use the camera, I had better be ready with lenses, support gear, and a basic workflow.
I sense that this is a camera that is meant to be different things to different users. The package I want to put together will not be the same as someone who is perhaps coming out of the DV world. One could choose to use 16mm format lenses, or even borrow a B-mount lens from their video camera with an adaptor that is being developed. This could give them a relatively inexpensive HD camera, which could record a limited duration of content to Flash memory. I am, on the other hand, looking to instead put together a feature camera package that can meet the varied needs of narrative cinematic story telling. I want to be fully 4K capable with the accessories necessary to shoot feature films as I would with 35mm. I have been both the owner of feature Arri 35mm camera packages, as well as several varieties of digital packages over the years, so I think I have a pretty good idea of what it will take.
Even though I might be able to shoot with 16mm or B-mount lenses, I’ll be sticking with the Super35 format. By going with 35mm format lenses, I will be enjoying the limited depth of field which is an invaluable cinematic tool. And, although I will probably not be recording full 4K due to the challenges of handling so much data, I still want to maintain that ability. I’m also sure the 2K I pull off the full array of the downsampled sensor will be superior to using the smaller format lenses, which could only take advantage of a portion of the sensor.
As much as I would like to save the many thousands of dollars in purchase price, I know the glass I use will be integral to the quality I can achieve, so I don’t want to go with bargain basement 35mm lenses. I have chosen to go with Zeiss primes, and the five lens set of 16mm through 85mm standard speeds is what I am used to when I shoot film. I have located a used set which I am having rebuilt to “as new” condition, and I will also be on the lookout for a nice 14mm and perhaps a 135mm. My next target will be zoom lenses, and while I would be willing to give the RED 18-85mm a try, my guess is that there will be a significant delay after the delivery of the camera before the lenses will be shipping. The new Cooke S4/i CXX. 15-40mm T2 Super 35mm format zoom is very exciting. Cooke has always made fine lenses and teaming up with the Pixel Farm, they also offer an “iDataLink Box” to decipher all lens parameters and record them in Metadata, which can be very useful for VFX work. I would love to test one, and I am seeking a purchase bid, but I’m afraid the cost may be prohibitive for an individual such as myself. So, I will likely be looking at a couple of Cooke zooms, probably the 20-100mm, and a 25-250mm, (again what I used to own with my film packages). Although I don’t need them all immediately, I expect to have at least $40,000 invested in lenses before I am through. To me, quality glass is a solid investment, and is not likely to become obsolete as has been the case so many times with the digital cameras I have owned; so I don’t think this is an area where it makes sense to scrimp.
I don’t yet feel that I have enough information to figure out what my recording system will be. I suppose I will be needing to come up with some sort of portable hard disk field recording system, at least some sort of RAID with computer control. I may look to rent a recording system such as S.two or Codex to keep my initial cash outlay to a minimum. I would think it possible for these to handle a 4K RAW workflow without too much trouble.
Even if I don’t end up investing in an outboard disk recorder, I am still preparing for an investment of up to $80K. As I detailed earlier, half of that will be in glass, and between the $17.5 for the camera, the additional items from RED, and all support gear from other manufacturers, I will be lucky if it doesn’t go up to $100K.
With nearly fifteen hundred orders lined up for the RED camera, there is certainly a broad base of interest; but I wonder who these other reservation holders are? Of the many DCS members who have told me they plunked down their thousand dollar deposits, there are a mix of rental houses ordering the maximum of six they were allowed, as well as individuals like myself. I wonder how many of these individuals will be capable of coming up with $100K, and how many will choose to limit the capability of their cameras? That much cash stills buys a home in many parts of the world.
I’m sure their are also Speculators among the depositors, who figure that if the RED camera is a success, they can turn around and sell it at a profit; and if it is not, they will simply ask for their deposit, as promised, to be returned. Personally, I’m committed to making a go of it, and I don’t think anybody wants to see these guys succeed more than I do. I’m betting with them, as much as if they were rolling the dice on the Vegas tables, and my money is on the Pass line. And, it will probably be in Vegas, at the NAB, before RED releases any further significant informational updates. Time will tell if I have made wise purchasing decisions, but in the meantime, I’ll keep sharing my thoughts and experiences as we move forward with anyone that cares to follow along.
I’ve been commissioned to write an article on the the RED One for a European trade magazine known as Definition. I know from a quick review of the RED User Member List that many of you are also Digital Cinema Society members and have probably been following my analysis and speculations as to the camera’s development. For those not familiar with DCS, following is an excerpt from my last such missive titled, Getting “Reddy” - Preparing To Own a Red Camera.
I’ve interviewed some of my Pals at RED, but I would really love to also include your input into this upcoming article. My theme is that this camera is designed to be different things to different users, and I would love to know how various RED Users plan to design and accessorize their camera packages, and what applications they hope to serve; (i.e. Indie Features, Docs, Owner/Operators, Rental Houses). Your input will be truly appreciated and I think might benefit the entire community in getting a better picture of where we are all intending to go with our RED One cameras. Please reply to this post to share your thoughts and plans, or send me an e-mail if you prefer.
With Sincere Thanks,
James Mathers
Digital Cinema Society
Mathers@DigitalCinemaSociety.org
Excerpts from: Getting “Reddy” - Preparing To Own a Red Camera
It is often said that it is the Pioneers who get the arrows in the back, and it is surely a gamble to ride point in a charge into an unexplored frontier; but I am hopeful it will have it’s rewards. As number 30 on the order/deposit list for the delivery of a Red camera, I have started my preparation into creating a working camera system. Once the camera is delivered, I want to be able to hit the ground running.
I’ve been busy researching my options, but at this point, I have to admit that I have many more questions than answers to share. I’ve been in touch with my friends on the RED team, but the information that would help me make informed decisions has not been forthcoming. Apparently, the problem is that they are still busy figuring it all out themselves, and they don’t want to send anyone down the wrong path with premature speculation. So far, however, all I really know is what I’ve been able to glean from the RED.com website. I still don’t know exactly what will come with the camera, and what necessary options in addition to the camera will come from RED, nor what the cost of those items will be.
I’m guessing the viewfinder will be at an additional cost, as has become the custom in the last several years with other high end cameras. I’m also going to assume that the RED cage will be at some additional cost. All I really expect to receive for my $17,500 is a box holding the Mysterium sensor. It is unlikely that Flash memory will be included, and I will not be surprised if it will also cost extra to have the ability to swap between on-board recording and an adaptor for outputting 4K to some other recorder. There may also be an additional charge for the RED Code software necessary to work with popular NLEs and other file formats.
Although the website has stated “Estimated to ship Early 2007”, I’m sensing it will be sometime in the summer before my camera will actually be delivered. Please know that I’m not trying to chastise them if they deliver a little past their original goals, and I certainly don’t want to rush anybody. I appreciate the magnitude of what the RED team is attempting, and I trust they will take the shortest necessary time to get it right. However, it is now early 2007, so I figure I’d better start getting ready for when they do call and tell me to come pick up my camera. I’ll need to have the necessary cash on hand, and if I want to actually use the camera, I had better be ready with lenses, support gear, and a basic workflow.
I sense that this is a camera that is meant to be different things to different users. The package I want to put together will not be the same as someone who is perhaps coming out of the DV world. One could choose to use 16mm format lenses, or even borrow a B-mount lens from their video camera with an adaptor that is being developed. This could give them a relatively inexpensive HD camera, which could record a limited duration of content to Flash memory. I am, on the other hand, looking to instead put together a feature camera package that can meet the varied needs of narrative cinematic story telling. I want to be fully 4K capable with the accessories necessary to shoot feature films as I would with 35mm. I have been both the owner of feature Arri 35mm camera packages, as well as several varieties of digital packages over the years, so I think I have a pretty good idea of what it will take.
Even though I might be able to shoot with 16mm or B-mount lenses, I’ll be sticking with the Super35 format. By going with 35mm format lenses, I will be enjoying the limited depth of field which is an invaluable cinematic tool. And, although I will probably not be recording full 4K due to the challenges of handling so much data, I still want to maintain that ability. I’m also sure the 2K I pull off the full array of the downsampled sensor will be superior to using the smaller format lenses, which could only take advantage of a portion of the sensor.
As much as I would like to save the many thousands of dollars in purchase price, I know the glass I use will be integral to the quality I can achieve, so I don’t want to go with bargain basement 35mm lenses. I have chosen to go with Zeiss primes, and the five lens set of 16mm through 85mm standard speeds is what I am used to when I shoot film. I have located a used set which I am having rebuilt to “as new” condition, and I will also be on the lookout for a nice 14mm and perhaps a 135mm. My next target will be zoom lenses, and while I would be willing to give the RED 18-85mm a try, my guess is that there will be a significant delay after the delivery of the camera before the lenses will be shipping. The new Cooke S4/i CXX. 15-40mm T2 Super 35mm format zoom is very exciting. Cooke has always made fine lenses and teaming up with the Pixel Farm, they also offer an “iDataLink Box” to decipher all lens parameters and record them in Metadata, which can be very useful for VFX work. I would love to test one, and I am seeking a purchase bid, but I’m afraid the cost may be prohibitive for an individual such as myself. So, I will likely be looking at a couple of Cooke zooms, probably the 20-100mm, and a 25-250mm, (again what I used to own with my film packages). Although I don’t need them all immediately, I expect to have at least $40,000 invested in lenses before I am through. To me, quality glass is a solid investment, and is not likely to become obsolete as has been the case so many times with the digital cameras I have owned; so I don’t think this is an area where it makes sense to scrimp.
I don’t yet feel that I have enough information to figure out what my recording system will be. I suppose I will be needing to come up with some sort of portable hard disk field recording system, at least some sort of RAID with computer control. I may look to rent a recording system such as S.two or Codex to keep my initial cash outlay to a minimum. I would think it possible for these to handle a 4K RAW workflow without too much trouble.
Even if I don’t end up investing in an outboard disk recorder, I am still preparing for an investment of up to $80K. As I detailed earlier, half of that will be in glass, and between the $17.5 for the camera, the additional items from RED, and all support gear from other manufacturers, I will be lucky if it doesn’t go up to $100K.
With nearly fifteen hundred orders lined up for the RED camera, there is certainly a broad base of interest; but I wonder who these other reservation holders are? Of the many DCS members who have told me they plunked down their thousand dollar deposits, there are a mix of rental houses ordering the maximum of six they were allowed, as well as individuals like myself. I wonder how many of these individuals will be capable of coming up with $100K, and how many will choose to limit the capability of their cameras? That much cash stills buys a home in many parts of the world.
I’m sure their are also Speculators among the depositors, who figure that if the RED camera is a success, they can turn around and sell it at a profit; and if it is not, they will simply ask for their deposit, as promised, to be returned. Personally, I’m committed to making a go of it, and I don’t think anybody wants to see these guys succeed more than I do. I’m betting with them, as much as if they were rolling the dice on the Vegas tables, and my money is on the Pass line. And, it will probably be in Vegas, at the NAB, before RED releases any further significant informational updates. Time will tell if I have made wise purchasing decisions, but in the meantime, I’ll keep sharing my thoughts and experiences as we move forward with anyone that cares to follow along.